Clare V Tipperary U-21 Munster Final

Jugs82

Watching the Munster U-21 Final on TG4 -What the f**k happened -

Clare had a 21 yard free and then the ref awards a free to tipp after the linesman pulls up the Clare keeper for coming out of the square for the puck out - The play had gone on for a bit and Clare were ready to take the free then all of a sudden, Tipp have a free...

Im not from Clare but thats absolutely outrageous :mad::mad:
That Linesman is a proper little piece of s***e

CyberDave

I've just come on here to start a thread on this issue. I was watching it and Clare seemed to have turned the screw on Tipp and had the free until the ref was called back by the umpire to say the Clare goalie had gone outside the square with his puckout. I'm not great to understand the irish, but from what I understand the ref had been warning the goalie throughout the first half on it. Still I think it was a bit audacious to turn a free from in front of the Tipp goal into a 65 for Tipp. Clare were very hard done by. It's not as though the goalie was way outside the square when he struck the puckout. He was one step outside. If I were a Clare supporter I woould be well peeved. The ref has robbed them of a Munster Championship. How can people expect the lesser teams like Clare to advance and improve if this kind of s**t is happening. Absolutely disgraceful. Imagine if the shoe was on the other foot and it was Tipp who had been robbed.

niallo1

Missed the incident itself .... just heard all the booing from the clare fans during the speeches ... sounds like they had good reason ... also looked like it was gonna get out of hand as the ref/umpires walked off only for the Gardai

eigrod

That was an absolute disgrace at the finish. Replays showed that the goalie had one foot inside the square and his other foot half a metre outside it when he pucked the ball. Hardly crime of the century.

The Clare fans were trying to stage a sit-in at the end and chanted all through the presentation to the Tipp captain. The Tipp captain, rather tongue in cheek, thanked the ref for a great game....funny, if you're not from Clare that is.

The umpire that pulled the goalie up was a thundering disgrace.

CyberDave

No disrespect to TIpp, but that win would have been great for Clare hurling. From their weekend clash with Cork we have seen that they seemed to be on the way back.

I noticed that remark by the Tipp captain, rather unsportmanlike on his behalf. Seamus Callinan was interviewed as he was awarded the Man of The Match award and admitted that if it had happened to Tipp they would be well annoyed as well.

Yavvy

i think this one will rumble on for a few weeks... I understand the same umpire gave the same award for Tipp earlier in the first game... Sounds scandelous to me

CyberDave

He seemed to have a slight grin on his face on the way off the pitch as well. As if to say, I'm the man.

cgarvey

For such a minor offence (the foot was outside the small square at puc out.. and that's the rule, fair enough) to be called up on at such a crucial time in the game reeks of something very underhanded or completely inexperience.

There's not a ref or umpire at senior level that'd call that up during a game (let alone as the losing team are about to take the last puc of the game to equalise it). That was disgraceful (as was the referee during most of the game). There'd be much less cause for complaint if that rule was enforced as rigourously throughout the game, in any club, or in any senior intercounty game, which of course it's not.

However, that does not excuse the pushing of officials and gardai by supporters. That too was disgraceful.

EOB32

What a DISGRACE. I admit to being from Clare but the umpire made an outrageous call. If the call was correct you could deem it very harsh, but when the call is WRONG it becomes absolute robbery. Im raging because a few other calls were totally wrong aswell. A tipp player hit a Clare lad a very cheap shot in the 1st half and got a yellow (on linesmans advice) but tipp were allowed to take the sideline which was pointed but how could he not give a free if yer man was booked. No chance of a replay because the GAA wont admit that the officials were a disgrace or that they were even wrong.

anto_mac

Only two words i can use to describe what has happen to Clare today "absolute disgrace". How in the hell can the ref done what he has done , I mean Clare had free/pen one end of the field , and brought it back for a 65 free for Tipp , for clare keeper stepping out of the box , which he actually didnt too , as TV replays show is right foot was just in the box. Yet again another disgrace decision against Clare , when will this all end

daraghmack

Total disgrace and I'm a Tipp man (my dad's a Clare man though!). I just can't understand how poor quality refereeing is allowed decide games. That is 2 Clare games in 3 days where poor referee decisions have influenced the outcome.
I'm not going to make any accusations, just an observation that the umpire in question looked very smug as he left the pitch...
Oh and whoever mentioned a replay there, ha ha not a chance, the only time I ever remember a replay due to a poor referees decision was in 1998 and ironically it was another decision against Clare.
I don't know what good complaining will do in this situation but I don't think Clare should take this as quietly as they have been taking all other bad decisions lately.

romah

The record books will show that Tipp are Munster U-21 Hurling Champions in 2008 but they didn't actually "win" it.

Just home from the match ..
and I have been to a lot of matches in my time but have never seen such a sequence of events that actually decided the outcome of a match.

The big question arising from this incident will be the role of the umpires in games

The "umpires" or "men in white coats" are not qualified referees themselves just possibly four referees buddies who stand near`the goals and wave their hands and flags.

The whole question of umpiring needs to be closely examined ....we have seen scores awarded in other games that were not scores etc

They now decide whether a goal keeper steps outside the square on a puck out but dont seem to notice when a forward is standing inside the square and scores a goal ...

Anyway .. will keep on going and supporting the Banner

stooge

not a mad hurling fan, but was watching this tonight as I had little else to do.

I've seen some terrible refereeing decisions in the last couple of weeks:
Dan Gordon being sent off for little more than a shoulder.
Brian Roper diving about like he was shot in the head.
Brian Dooher winding up the Westmeath team.

Tonight really took the biscuit though.

There were two major incidents:

a) Tipp player in first half threw the butt of the hurl into prone clare player's kidney. Could have caused serious injury. Don't think he even got booked even though it was in plain view of the ref.

b) Calling back the play when clare had a very scorable free to go ahead because the keeper had stepped slightly outside the square.

There were other dodgy decisions by the ref but as I wasn't really cheering on either team I didnt think much of it.

Can understand the frustration of the fans at the end but the pushing and shoving will likely mean the GAA will come down on the county rather than sypathise.

marco_polo

romah wrote: »

The record books will show that Tipp are Munster U-21 Hurling Champions in 2008 but they didn't actually "win" it.

Just home from the match ..
and I have been to a lot of matches in my time but have never seen such a sequence of events that actually decided the outcome of a match.

The big question arising from this incident will be the role of the umpires in games

The "umpires" or "men in white coats" are not qualified referees themselves just possibly four referees buddies who stand near`the goals and wave their hands and flags.

The whole question of umpiring needs to be closely examined ....we have seen scores awarded in other games that were not scores etc

They now decide whether a goal keeper steps outside the square on a puck out but dont seem to notice when a forward is standing inside the square and scores a goal ...

Anyway .. will keep on going and supporting the Banner

Gutted for us it seems we are destined not to ever win a Munster U21 championship. The smirk on the umpires face made it even worse.

However the scenes at the end of the game are not something any clare person could be proud of.

There also seems to be some confusion about whether I actually was even technically a free, he definately had one foot in the square when he struck the ball, what is considered outside the square? Any rule experts about?

Considering I played in goal between the ages of 10 and 21 you'd think I would know :P. In fact I made a whole hurling career out of doing the same thing.

eigrod

Who was the ref by the way or what county was he from ?

marco_polo

eigrod wrote: »

Who was the ref by the way or what county was he from ?

I believe it was a Jason O'Mahoney from Limerick.

hawkwing

For the last 5 minutes the ref gave Clare at least 3 extremely dubious frees
1 --Tipp fullback coming out to clear and in possesion while being held,free in-Clare point
2--Free at the sideline for nothing??
3--Also the last one around midfield for god knows
Also playing 68mins when 5 mins injury time was displayed gave them enough of chances of the draw which he was plainly trying to do,

anto_mac

Just responding to the last post made , the reason the ref play 68 mins was because of the flarce decision to bring play back because the goalkeeper step outside the box which he actually didnt do

Keano

As a Clare man I am still f**king raging this morning. Not because we lost the match but because of that f**king idiot on an umpire's decision to give Tipp a 65. I watched the Clare goalie all the second half and he came out of his box on a number of occasions yet no 65 was given... Why then does that pr*ck decide give a 65 at that moment?(Money on Tipp?!) Does he think enough is enough, if so then why not raise you hand every time dumbo.

Bduffman

Firstly, I agree with most posters that the decision was disgraceful. However, I think what went on after was far worse. There were Clare fans pushing the umpire as he left the field. Even the Gardai got pushed about. In fact if the Gardai weren't there I believe the umpire would have been seriously injured. Regardless of what happened on the field, nothing deserves that. It looks to me like some GAA supporters are turning into soccer yobs.

Keano

Bduffman wrote: »

Firstly, I agree with most posters that the decision was disgraceful. However, I think what went on after was far worse. There were Clare fans pushing the umpire as he left the field. Even the Gardai got pushed about. In fact if the Gardai weren't there I believe the umpire would have been seriously injured. Regardless of what happened on the field, nothing deserves that. It looks to me like some GAA supporters are turning into soccer yobs.

The incidents were not good for the game but it was easy to see it happening. While I do not condone the actions I do understand peoples frustrations.

bill_ashmount

Disgraceful scenes, the scum (Clare fans) who were involved with this on the pitch at the end need to be identified and banned.

ddddd

people should get over it, rules are rules!! had a free been given for catching the ball 3 times while soloing it would be grand so I don't see why this has caused such an outrage because he was right because refs have to start implementing th rules at underage level so the game at senior elevel will be better

run_Forrest_run

It seems harsh for the Clare hurlers alright, the umpire seemed to be on a little power trip as he was escorted off by gardai.

One thing I did notice though was the amount of young Clare supporters all hanging around the pitch entrance (where the presentation was being done) and giving the finger to the ref and umpire and shouting abuse at anyone who would listen..it sort of reminded me of that film 'This is England'..not very good to see kids of 12 and 13 carrying on like this.

future_plans

+1

However bad the refereeing was or the other match officials, this kind of knackery behaviour is a disgrace. I'd be ashamed if I was a Clare GAA supporter this morning. Counties will always & ultimately be tried and prosecuted by the media/public based on the behaviour of their scumbag minority.... unfortunately.

snowman707

Bduffman wrote: »

Firstly, I agree with most posters that the decision was disgraceful. However, I think what went on after was far worse. There were Clare fans pushing the umpire as he left the field. Even the Gardai got pushed about. In fact if the Gardai weren't there I believe the umpire would have been seriously injured. Regardless of what happened on the field, nothing deserves that. It looks to me like some GAA supporters are turning into soccer yobs.

+1

no real supporters like the Cork supporters that left croke Park at half time last sunday

just listening to clare fm & it appears people were lucky not to have been injured with flying missiles . these b****** are a lot worse than the bo***x of an umpire.

shawnee

I have been going to hurling matches for the last 35 years and this decision is probably the worst that I have ever seen. The umpire was obviously under instruction from the ref with regards to the puck outs. This is obviously a big thing with the ref, ( why I don't know because only a foot or so is gained. I couldn't blame the goalie in the heat of the moment anxious to get his puck out away quickly. However the final decision was made by the ref. He could have spoken to the umpire and overruled the decision, this was the obvious thing to do, particularily as play had continued and he had already awarded a close in free.
Very disappointing for a Clare team who hurled their hearts out and I am not from Clare.
Don't know where they get these refs ! What kind of guy wants the job. Certainly one needs a very cool head and Jason OMahony lost it on this occasion.
Well played to Tipp , they hurled well in the second half, and I have no fault with the team.
However the ref or his officials should never be given a decent game again !

ddddd

left croke park???

future_plans

Presume you mean Semple??

Didn't see any Cork supporters leave at half time. A few worried faces alright...but nobody leaving. You'd be mad to leave, only 8 points down with the wind to yer back in the second half....If there were a few leaving, wouldn't call them supporters!!

pyramuid man

While I agree that it was possibly not the right judgement I have to say the supporters action after it was absolutley unexcusable. You cant just push and try to attack the officials regardless of what decisions are made.

Green Giant

Although I had been absolutely bollocking each of the officials throughout the game, I knew it was serious when I saw a rake of Gardai rushing towards them at the finish. Fans were rightly frustrated but a line needs to be drawn between criticising poor decisions and committing felonious assault on others. It was also disappointing to see the Tipp players getting booed during the trophy presentation, it's not their fault the officials were incompetent.

A couple of points that haven't yet been made so far:
1) When Tipp player got booked towards the end of the first half but a sideline was given instead (first bad call), the resulting set piece was adjudged to have been a point, even though it went well wide (second mistake) and the sliothar was barely a metre off the ground (third error).
2) In first half injury time, Clare full-forward put the ball into the Tipp net, only for the ref to call it back for a free about 30 yards out, which was pointed. This was the third time in the game that he did not give Clare the advantage and I'll forgive him the first two because they were in the middle of the park but ruling out a fair goal was shambolic.

Pshan

anto_mac wrote: »

Just responding to the last post made , the reason the ref play 68 mins was because of the flarce decision to bring play back because the goalkeeper step outside the box which he actually didnt do

TV4 shows that he did.

Pshan

Keano A Legend wrote: »

As a Clare man I am still f**king raging this morning. Not because we lost the match but because of that f**king idiot on an umpire's decision to give Tipp a 65. I watched the Clare goalie all the second half and he came out of his box on a number of occasions yet no 65 was given... Why then does that pr*ck decide give a 65 at that moment?(Money on Tipp?!) Does he think enough is enough, if so then why not raise you hand every time dumbo.

Just because it went unpunished doesn't make it alright, if stepping outside the box is an offence then it's an offence, end of story.

Players aren't always penalised for taking too many steps but yet some are should the refs now stop all frees for too many steps.

Players need to learn the rules and play the rules not play how they feel like it and then let the fans take the law into their own hands.

future_plans

Pshan wrote: »

TV4 shows that he did.

yeah - He did. It was marginal and harsh for the keeper and Clare. Pedantic Ref. Whatever you want to call it, but with strict appliance of the rules, it was a valid decision. I'd be extremely disappointed if it was against me though.

patmac

Clare seemed to be robbed alright doesn't excuse the behaviour of the fans though. It's hard to believe that an umpire could give that free even on instructions from the referee, I mean is he mad? quite possibly. I mean you would want to be ever so slightly insane to be a referee/umpire in the first place. What do you get a few bob expenses at Xmas time for a summer of constant abuse. I mean it's ok to defend referees but surely to Jaysus had he not the cop on to overule the umpire as this was going to inflame the Clare fans, and if the umpire had a smirk on his face well he wasn't exactly going to help the situation, a bit of cop on all round could have prevented this situation from arising. Cop on being remarkably in short supply in the GAA this year, it's all becoming quite depressing.
Another point is how many times in a game does a goalkeeper puck the ball out with his foot outside the square? It must happen all the time but never have I seen a free giving.

bill_ashmount

patmac wrote: »

Another point is how many times in a game does a goalkeeper puck the ball out with his foot outside the square? It must happen all the time but never have I seen a free giving.

I've seen it happen recently enough (Within the last 4 or 5 months) I can't remember if it was a Cork game or a club championship game in Cork, but the ref pulled the goalie on it. I was surprised when it happened, but some refs do enforce it.

premierstone

future_plans wrote: »

yeah - He did. It was marginal and harsh for the keeper and Clare. Pedantic Ref. Whatever you want to call it, but with strict appliance of the rules, it was a valid decision. I'd be extremely disappointed if it was against me though.

Why is everyone blaming the ref, i know he's responsible for he's umpires but he couldnt overrule he's umpire in this case.

And yeah even though im a tipp man i think last minute of a munster final is not a great time to be enforcing a rule that has been by and large ignored.

Also i think there is no excuse for the behaviour of the clare supporters during the presentation, the Tipp players were completely innocent in this cock-up

future_plans

premierstone wrote: »

Why is everyone blaming the ref

I'm not blaming him Premier. Just saying some refs are more "pedantic" when it comes to applying certain rules than others. Other refs are really strict on steps. It's the same in football. It's the same in every sport really.

I'm not blaming the ref for what happened after. If that was to happen everytime a team had a marginal decision against them at a critical moment in a match, there would be chaos at every high level championship game.

Limestone1

The rule is unclear as to whether one foot in or out constitutes an offence. I would say from the wording that both feet would have to be ouside for the puck out to have deemed to be taken from outside :

4.15 To take the puck-out from outside the small rectangle.

PENALTY - 65m free opposite where the foul occurred.

Keano

ddddd wrote: »

people should get over it, rules are rules!! had a free been given for catching the ball 3 times while soloing it would be grand so I don't see why this has caused such an outrage because he was right because refs have to start implementing th rules at underage level so the game at senior elevel will be better

Stop trolling.

What infuriated Clare fans and I was that the Clare goalkeeper had stepped outside the box a few times in the second half but no 65 was given, yet all of a sudden the umpire in the final minute decides to put his hand up. Either you penalise the goalkeeper everytime or not at all.

Pshan

Keano A Legend wrote: »

Stop trolling.

What infuriated Clare fans and I was that the Clare goalkeeper had stepped outside the box a few times in the second half but no 65 was given, yet all of a sudden the umpire in the final minute decides to put his hand up. Either you penalise the goalkeeper everytime or not at all.

How many fouls are penalised ALL the time in GAA, isn't that one of the problems with the two games. A player or fans shouldn't be annoyed when an offence is penalised just because the same player got away with it earlier.

EKRIUQ

Keano A Legend wrote: »

Stop trolling.

What infuriated Clare fans and I was that the Clare goalkeeper had stepped outside the box a few times in the second half but no 65 was given, yet all of a sudden the umpire in the final minute decides to put his hand up. Either you penalise the goalkeeper everytime or not at all.

How's he trolling, the goalie was being warned the whole game about moving outside the small rectangle but he couldn’t be arsed to listen and paid the ultimate price, he lost the game for Clare.

(Maybe it's a case of Karma against Tipp)

Munster Magic

A disgrace, was at the game last night and have to say the ref and his officials were a joke. Clare centre back got the end of the hurley into his back while on the ground in the first half straight in front of the linesman, should have been a red card and a free to Clare, the ref gave a yellow card and a sideline to Tipp which they pointed. As for the 65 at the end, possibly the correct decision (havent seen a replay yet) but it is a thing all goalkeepers do and rarely get pulled up for it. There has to be a consistency with these issues. Fair play to Tipp, it was a great game but the ref and his officials ruined what should have been Clares first Munster U21 Championship.

PS. Thought the Tipp captains comment thanking the ref was uncalled for

Keano

Pshan wrote: »

How many fouls are penalised ALL the time in GAA, isn't that one of the problems with the two games. A player or fans shouldn't be annoyed when an offence is penalised just because the same player got away with it earlier.

Namesco wrote: »

How's he trolling, the goalie was being warned the whole game about moving outside the small rectangle but he couldn’t be arsed to listen and paid the ultimate price, he lost the game for Clare.

(Maybe it's a case of Karma against Tipp)

So what ye are saying is that is ok to enforce the rule only on the odd occasion.

And if ye took the time to read my other posts I am just annoyed that the umpires didn't punish him all the time he broke the rule. Why at that particular moment did the umpire choose to punish him? Was it a case of I have let you off enough and it is time to put a stop to it?

premierstone

Munster Magic wrote: »

Thought the Tipp captains comment thanking the ref was uncalled for

It is common place for the winning captain to thank the officals, and i can imagine he was more than a bit annoyed that he was winning captain in a munster final and all that could be heard was booing for something that he or any of the tipp players had no part to play in

Keano

premierstone wrote: »

It is common place for the winning captain to thank the officals, and i can imagine he was more than a bit annoyed that he was winning captain in a munster final and all that could be heard was booing for something that he or any of the tipp players had no part to play in

premierstone you and I both know he said that firmly with his tongue in his cheek. Nothing like adding fuel to Tipp V Clare fire.

Yavvy

Keano and Namesco, please allow the Mods to make the calls on whos trolling.. sometimes we catch it...and award the other poster a 65M free and sometimes we dont :P

I would like to see this thread stay on topic, and the "your a troll" comment often degenerates into the "your ma" conversation


Thanks in advance
Alan

Namesco wrote: »

How's he trolling, the goalie was being warned the whole game about moving outside the small rectangle but he couldn’t be arsed to listen and paid the ultimate price, he lost the game for Clare.

(Maybe it's a case of Karma against Tipp)

Vegeta

Just want to add something to this

My dad is an inter county hurling ref (has done inter county senior games). Unmpires at that level do a one day training course and are thought how to act on the field. One day aint a lot but they're not just blow ins or a group of mates he gathers up.

Secondly, at a conference in Athlone (I think that's where he went anyway) recently this very situation was discussed and it was deemed the right thing to do if play has continued on like this is to over rule the umpire.

shawnee

In this case the ref controls the game, how often have we seen an umpire's decision overturned for a 65 , quite often, usually following a crowd reaction. Jason OMahony having not seen the umpire and allowed play to continue should in this case have overruled the umpire. It would be the common sense decision and I do think that maturity and common sense was severly lacking last night:rolleyes:

Pshan

Keano A Legend wrote: »

So what ye are saying is that is ok to enforce the rule only on the odd occasion.

And if ye took the time to read my other posts I am just annoyed that the umpires didn't punish him all the time he broke the rule. Why at that particular moment did the umpire choose to punish him? Was it a case of I have let you off enough and it is time to put a stop to it?

I never said that, I'm paraphasing here but some argued that because the goalie had done it a few times and wasn't punished it was harsh to do it so late in the game and my point was and is it is an offence the a player or a fan can't complain about being penalised regardless of previous offences not being penalised.

Ideally it would be great to have all offences penalised but we'd have the diehards saying the ref was kiling the games then.

Yavvy

Pshan wrote: »

Ideally it would be great to have all offences penalised but we'd have the diehards saying the ref was kiling the games then.

Couldn’t disagree more with this.. I think a little bit of common sense and consistency is what most people are looking for... of course it never makes sense when its against your team and consistency is something very difficult to achieve.. in GAA and Football especially

Enforcing all the rules all of the time would be a total nightmare.