Advice on exposed bio-0ss/bio-gide

ligertigon

Ok, just had some work done abroad. Artificial bone (bio-oss) placed in anticipation of implant in 6 months where there is a missing tooth (top left incisor).
Had the sutures out 10 days ago, but it has failed to heal over the gap, and about 3mm x 2mm of bio-gide is showing.

I contacted my surgeon abroad and he said it was not ideal, and to try get some soft laser treatment, or find someone with a bioptron lamp to aid healing.

Guess what. After 58 calls yesterday I can find no dentist(specialist) who offers this treatment in Ireland, and I really tried!!

I am cleaning carefully and using corsodyl

Any advice appreciated.

davo10

regretfully ligertigon this is one of the problems with having treatment abroad, you are unlikely to find a dentist here to help you. The reason is that a dentist here can not be certain of the augmentation material used and how well it was placed. If a local dentist provides treatment on the area he/she is taking responcibility for it and if it is not a success the dentist abroad could lay the blame at the door of your irish dentist. Thus you will be advised to return to the dentist abroad, this will be the same for all problems which occur in the future. If you seek treatment based solely on price, this is the chance you take.

ligertigon

davo10 wrote: »

regretfully ligertigon this is one of the problems with having treatment abroad, you are unlikely to find a dentist here to help you. The reason is that a dentist here can not be certain of the augmentation material used and how well it was placed. If a local dentist provides treatment on the area he/she is taking responcibility for it and if it is not a success the dentist abroad could lay the blame at the door of your irish dentist. Thus you will be advised to return to the dentist abroad, this will be the same for all problems which occur in the future. If you seek treatment based solely on price, this is the chance you take.

It is healing fine now, after eventually finding someone who does LLL therapy (even a dental training hospital here never heard of it) .
The biogide looked larger cause it was peeping out of a pin hole.

Thanks for asking though.

Off topic, to suit your reply:


I really despise the attitude of some people writing off dental work abroad.

Why?

Because I was about to get €10k worth of work done here, but went abroad for a quote.
First thing they did was give me a ct scan, that revealed major problems my dentist here didn't know ( I will give you full details if interested).

Knowledge is power!

Luckly, I didn't get the work done here, or it would have been a case of working on bad foundations.

With the money I saved, If needed, I could be back to my dentist abroad sooner than a movie ends many times a year all expenses paid.

As for dentists here not wanting to see patients formally abroad, I don't buy your reason, because, dentists abroad will rectify crap work done here!

I will agree on one thing, do your homework before going:D

davo10

Ligertigon, don't get me wrong i have nothing against treatment abroad be it dentistry or any other medical treatment, what I meant in my post is that it is a question of taking responcibility. If you have say a dental implant or eye surgery etc abroad and you need some additional treatment associated with that surgery which may have an effect on it's success, it's rational to suggest that it is best to have that done by the surgeon who carried out the treatment. If the surgery does not meet your expectations, then the concern is that the surgeon abroad may suggest that it's failure was a result of the treatment you got here. Secondly, prior to surgery commencing your dentist here would probably have taken more comprehensive radiographs, ct scans are expensive and are not a routine procedure (xray exposure concerns), they are taken when a patient commits to treatment ie. accepts plan/costs etc. When you go to the trouble of traveling abroad the dentist quite rightly is confident you are going to have treatment and therefore can prescribe ct's immediately. Also, radiological guidelines in med/dentistry in ireland are very strict to protect the patient from over exposure, xrays are prescribed only where there is a proven clinical necessity eg pathology or in treatment planning.

Moreover, clinicians here are also happy to rectify work done abroad, however people tend to travel for the "big stuff" such as implants/crowns/bridgework where huge savings can be made, unfortunetely when these things go wrong they go very wrong and are not easily fixed, that's why so many people who have had problems with treatment abroad are referred to the dental hospitals in dublin/cork (see professor Robbie McConnell's article in the Times about the huge increase in the number of patients being treated in UCC dental hospital after getting treatment abroad, not sure of date but you should be able to google it) . As for your comment about being able to get back faster than the movie ends, what about having to book flights/travel to airports/time off work. Will the clinic abroad pay for your flights if they cost more than your treatment ?, how happy will they be to do so if you have to back say, four times ?( at that time their profit will be long gone), how easy is it to get compensation if you are not happy with treatment ?( he/she is all the way over there and you are here, will you travel over and back to see a solicitor 5 times ?).

Remember the person who provides the treatment is best placed to deal with any problems later so seeing a dentist here who works for the clinics abroad is not ideal, again this comes back to the question of taking responcibility, the surgeon in say budapest could blame his colleague here for providing wrong aftercare even though they work for the same dental company.

davo10

Article 13/12/06, irish times "risks of overseas dentistry"

ligertigon

davo10 wrote: »

Article 13/12/06, irish times "risks of overseas dentistry"

Read that, Total bull$4It. IDA dentist in a " letter to the editor"?? LOL

Rant now started:

When will someone do some proper resesearch on this topic.

Total turf war via scaremongering.

The Irish think, (I am Irish) that we are the best at everything,

We are are a third world country when it comes to healthcare.( ask any doc/nurse that has worked abroad for any time). And I stand correct to this in terms of individual treatment.

I went abroad and saved thousands, AND got better care.
Don't you dare slate the ability of any health professional within the EU without some concrete proof of incompetence other than a pathetic editors letter that my retarded nephew could write.

I called 58 numbers to get some LLL therapy, (soft laser treatment/ cold laser) treatment, nobody heard of it, even a dublin dental hospital..... pathetic.


next on six-one, they'll have invented it....

OHH and DAVO10, the forgien dentists rectify many Irish dentists cockups, and don't question it. So I don't buy your reluctance of Irish dentists doing likewise.....

Q. Where ever, do all these (hundreds of) damaged Irish patients go to rectify work.

T
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BryanL

LLL therapy, (soft laser treatment/ cold laser)

why not just use snake oil?

the procedure you had done abroad has failed! and your here to be critical of Irish dentists??????

Why has the work you had done failed? thats the question you should be asking, not why don't Irish Dentists use some fringe treatment that has little peer reviewed publish data.
Bryan

P.S. Bio-Oss isn't artificial bone, but it is conductive to bone growth, however where it or the Bio-guide is exposed there is a very high risk of graft loss. You should return to your treating dentist or a experienced Oral surgeon A.S.A.P. rather than imagining a turf war.

ligertigon

Who said the work I had done failed? , it is healing nicely thanks.

I hope your not in the dental profession BryanL, because LLL therapy is very well published and not wa wa voodoo treatment. Why don't you educate yourself...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Photobiomodulation

davo10

Ligertigon, there is no turf war here, you posted something and I gave you an opinion, no need for a rant. Also I made no reference to the quality of work abroad. Photo emitting diodes have been around for a long time, I just wasn't aware of it's new fangled name. In fact I think it has been in the media recently for all the wrong reasons (if my memory is correct it was used by the Doctor in Clare as a way of "curing/slowing" cancer and found to have no benefit to patients.). You mentioned in your rant the need for proper research, this is a good point and for that very reason this type of treatment is not widely used. THERE IS NO CONCLUSIVE EVIDENCE THAT I CAN FIND THAT IT WORKS, so why would a dentist use it?, are you saying patients should be used as guinea pigs for every new blinking flashlight that comes on the market?.
Also, article written by Professor Robbie McConnell, head of prosthodontics at University College Cork, former Head of the Dental Hospital and consultant at Vancouver Dental Hospital. He is not a private dentist has nothing to gain financially from his article. If he is not a person best placed to write this type of letter I don't know who is, and he treats the patients.

ligertigon

Davo. I originally posted for advice, but nobody advised other than "I told you so", which proved worthless in the end.

Regards soft laser/bioptron light:
on rats.. a quick google..
http://www.medfak.ni.ac.yu/ASN/BROJ-42/3-full text.htm


if you look, there is a lot lot more on this topic. And I can tell you it did wonders for me. And I recommend it. If you are in the profession, I strongly suggest you research it.

As for guinea pigs,
What about the professional here who gave me treatment? I wasn't his first satisfied customer! (BTW love your spin on cancer treatment in clare)

Regards the article by Professor Robbie McConnell, I don't dispute it, but I believe it is the wrong forum to discuss such issues. For example, the patient and Professor Robbie McConnell would have been better to give a press interview. It is a kind of amateurish way to make a point if you see what I mean.

And what about the laws of randomness, maybe only he gets all these 0.001% problematic patients, and everyone else is fine.

Again, data is needed, not one off's here and there. Dentists are scientists, facts rule, so lets find them.

Why doesn't the IDA sponser questionaires on flights to popular europe destinations, and a third party analyse them? Or do something constructive/preventitive if we are at risk going abroad for treatment.

davo10

You are quite right ligertigon, the Prof sees only a small percentage of patients who have treatments abroad (also it must be said patients who are treated here) but that will be no consulation to you if you are one of those patients. And that is not scaremongering, it is a fact that not all treatments are successful wherever they are done, the difference is the ease with which you can seek corrective procedures or compensation.

It is naive of you to think that a person boarding/coming off a plane from Hungary is going to give you impartial answers to a questionaire about dentistry. Patients are reluctant to go to media admitting they have had bad treatment (abroad or at home) so thats a non starter. The IDA cannot sponser a questionaire as it would be shot down as being biased. How is it amatuerish for a Professor to respond to a newspaper article citing his experiences, is this not in the public interest?( if a surgeon was seeing an increase in complications attending from say a plastic surgery clinic in Dublin (topical and current), would it not be in the public interest to comment on this increase?

ligertigon

davo10 wrote: »

You are quite right ligertigon, the Prof sees only a small percentage of patients who have treatments abroad (also it must be said patients who are treated here) but that will be no consulation to you if you are one of those patients. And that is not scaremongering, it is a fact that not all treatments are successful wherever they are done, the difference is the ease with which you can seek corrective procedures or compensation.

It is naive of you to think that a person boarding/coming off a plane from Hungary is going to give you impartial answers to a questionaire about dentistry. Patients are reluctant to go to media admitting they have had bad treatment (abroad or at home) so thats a non starter. The IDA cannot sponser a questionaire as it would be shot down as being biased. How is it amatuerish for a Professor to respond to a newspaper article citing his experiences, is this not in the public interest?( if a surgeon was seeing an increase in complications attending from say a plastic surgery clinic in Dublin (topical and current), would it not be in the public interest to comment on this increase?

Ding!
Good comment Davo, "the difference is the ease with which you can seek corrective procedures " Best advice ever.

I fully agree with this, but you still need data. i.e. how many treatments here, need corrective proceedures? cf Abroad. Hence, % returns. Again no data..

As per my suggestion on the IDA, it would not be biased, as I mentioned third party correlation. And the forms could include post op updates from the candidates. How would this be impartial? How is this naive of me? And why do you mention Hungary? When there is so many other options?

And BTW, I (most people) would have no problem advertising the fact I got bad dental work abroad. Whats the secret? I want to warn others??? And everyone has the option to sue for bad work! Here, or within the EU.

Also, I wasn't aware the article by the professor was a response. Can you enlighten me to the original poster?

BryanL

ligertigon wrote: »

Who said the work I had done failed? , it is healing nicely thanks.

I hope your not in the dental profession BryanL, because LLL therapy is very well published and not wa wa voodoo treatment. Why don't you educate yourself...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Photobiomodulation

you think i should use wikipedia for dental research?

ligertigon

BryanL wrote: »

you think i should use wikipedia for dental research?

No. but you are ignorant, so its a start

BryanL

well i can live with being as ignorant as the Professors in Trinity.
a magic light, did you know it's the very same "technology" that'll grow your hair back,
http://www.newhair.com/treatment/other-laser-therapy.asp

it says it on the net it must be true.
Bryan

ligertigon

This thread has diverted way off target.

davo10

ligertigon is hair starting to grow round your implant?, are you sure you posted in the correct anatomical forum, please check the location of your implant.

ligertigon

davo10 wrote: »

ligertigon is hair starting to grow round your implant?, are you sure you posted in the correct anatomical forum, please check the location of your implant.

Now that you mention it Davo, I do see vestigial hair follicles, spurting out of my gum, what has that light done, omg?

Maybe we could market this, and sell it to balding professors in trinity.

davo10

Just think Rodney, this time next year we could me millionaires