Is Cardio necessary if you're not too overweight & want to get ripped?

Glacier

I am a member of Jackie Skellies but I just joined Pinnacle as this is mor weights focused where JC is just about fitness and I want to get built.
They told me not to really bother with cardio that it would 'all just fall into shape' after a couple of months. Would it be bad to do both. If you were doing good weights as well as 25-30 mins cardiop a day, would it help or hinder?

Khannie

Read this article on T-Nation today about minimising muscle loss while losing fat. It recommends a small amount of cardio.

Glacier

Anyone Else?

Blazer

You do still want to be fit though?
My cousin does weights/ no cardio and he's well built but he couldn't run 20 yards.
I do both as I don't want to be too bulky and still want my mobility for soccer/rugby etc.#
Besides any gym that recommends not to bother with cardio is leaving themselves wideopen for a lawsuit if anything happends to you.
Happened in UL limerick where this guy just dropped dead doing weights..turned out all he had been doing was weights and all that extra muscle basically just crushed his heart and he couldn't breathe.
The guy had never done a intro course when he joined (every gym's supposed to) and you always mix cardio and weights...you still need your heart to push all that oxygen around.
Last i heard was his family was suing the gym for not properly prepping him when he joined.

Al_Fernz

There is no definitive answer to your question. Whether of not cardio will help or hinder your progress will be determined by the following variables:

Intestity of the cardio,
Intensity of the weight routine,
What particular weight routine you are performing,
Diet,
Your metabolism,
Your current level of physical fitness,
Age etc. etc. etc.

Al_Fernz

Mathew Reilly wrote: »

Besides any gym that recommends not to bother with cardio is leaving themselves wideopen for a lawsuit if anything happends to you.
Happened in UL limerick where this guy just dropped dead doing weights..turned out all he had been doing was weights and all that extra muscle basically just crushed his heart and he couldn't breathe.
The guy had never done a intro course when he joined (every gym's supposed to) and you always mix cardio and weights...you still need your heart to push all that oxygen around.
Last i heard was his family was suing the gym for not properly prepping him when he joined.

Sounds like a load of codswallop to me. Please provide some sort of evidence to back up these (as in multiple) spurious claims.

kevpants

Mathew Reilly wrote: »

Besides any gym that recommends not to bother with cardio is leaving themselves wideopen for a lawsuit if anything happends to you.
Happened in UL limerick where this guy just dropped dead doing weights..turned out all he had been doing was weights and all that extra muscle basically just crushed his heart and he couldn't breathe.
The guy had never done a intro course when he joined (every gym's supposed to) and you always mix cardio and weights...you still need your heart to push all that oxygen around.
Last i heard was his family was suing the gym for not properly prepping him when he joined.

Oooooh man this one is gonna attract some attention from a few posters here.

/waits for barage

Khannie

Glacier wrote: »

Anyone Else?

You're welcome.

Al_Fernz

kevpants wrote: »

Oooooh man this one is gonna attract some attention from a few posters here.

/waits for barage

Yup I think the poster got his threads mixed up. This is where he meant to post it: http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2055285444

Naos

Mathew Reilly wrote: »

#
Happened in UL limerick where this guy just dropped dead doing weights..turned out all he had been doing was weights and all that extra muscle basically just crushed his heart and he couldn't breathe.
The guy had never done a intro course when he joined (every gym's supposed to) and you always mix cardio and weights...you still need your heart to push all that oxygen around.
Last i heard was his family was suing the gym for not properly prepping him when he joined.

Does muscle grow inwards?

Glacier, what you said to Khannie was uncalled for. A simple display of gratitude would be sufficient - why would someone want to help you when thats the reception they recieve?

BossArky

Glacier wrote: »

I want to get built.

If you just want to get big (as per your statement above) then do heavy weights and eat well as per the stickies

Glacier wrote: »

If you were doing good weights as well as 25-30 mins cardiop a day, would it help or hinder?

Do the weights first, then the cardio.

If you are training for a sport that requires quick reactions and movement then getting absolutely massive could be as useful as having Paris Hilton on your Blackboard jungle team. You'll look great though

Incorporating a bit of cardio will help you to move your new mass. Try something like 3 days of 45 mins weights and 2 days of 30 mins cardio.

amazingemmet

Hmmm challenge: Do a twenty rep set of squats with your 10rm rest pause style and tell me thats not cardio.

smashey

Glacier, Khannie gives good advice and deserves a bit more respect than your flippant comment. Put a bit of thought into your next post here.

prodigal_son

amazingemmet wrote: »

Hmmm challenge: Do a twenty rep set of squats with your 10rm rest pause style and tell me thats not cardio.

For squats to be real cardio you have to work it based on time and not reps/ sets. Sometimes i work squats into my cardio routine, but its usually with light weights and just 20 - 25 mins of non stop squats. I do be sweating buckets at the end. Doesnt build muscle, but gets my heart beating in the high range for at least 12 - 15 mins.

I used cardio to drop about 2 - 3 stone, going from a tiny bit pudgy looking to ripped. I had a solid base of muscle though, and i did concentrate on maintaining that muscle and even making it grow.

Depends on what you want to achieve, if its big ripped, then concentrate on the weights, if its fit ripped, then dont stop the cardio.

mloc

Mathew Reilly wrote: »

Besides any gym that recommends not to bother with cardio is leaving themselves wideopen for a lawsuit if anything happends to you.
Happened in UL limerick where this guy just dropped dead doing weights..turned out all he had been doing was weights and all that extra muscle basically just crushed his heart and he couldn't breathe.
The guy had never done a intro course when he joined (every gym's supposed to) and you always mix cardio and weights...you still need your heart to push all that oxygen around.
Last i heard was his family was suing the gym for not properly prepping him when he joined.

Hilarious, I thought it was the steroids in his Monster Munch.

Floyd Soul

I think you should stick with the cardio too. Your gonna need a strong heart to pump blood throught the muscle. Aswell as that, if you want an all round level of fitness, its essential. Try HIIT and it will be good. As long as your not doing low intensity distance running, it won't negatively affect muscle growth.

Blazer

Al_Fernz wrote: »

Sounds like a load of codswallop to me. Please provide some sort of evidence to back up these (as in multiple) spurious claims.

What as in a picture of the body? Sry my girlfriend was too freaked out by the corpse next to her in the gym to take any pictures..
Try doing a google on Limerick Leader/Post etc.

g'em

Mathew Reilly wrote: »

What as in a picture of the body? Sry my girlfriend was too freaked out by the corpse next to her in the gym to take any pictures..
Try doing a google on Limerick Leader/Post etc.

I did, and came up with nothing. Have a read of the Charter of the forum, particularly the part where it requests that all posters back up their more spurious claims with valid references.

So can you provide us with links to the "Man Dies of Heart Attack from Hyoooge Muscelz" article please?

pvt.joker

Mathew Reilly wrote: »

Happened in UL limerick where this guy just dropped dead doing weights..turned out all he had been doing was weights and all that extra muscle basically just crushed his heart and he couldn't breathe.

I'm cracking up here man, quality story :D

Al_Fernz

Mathew Reilly wrote: »

What as in a picture of the body? Sry my girlfriend was too freaked out by the corpse next to her in the gym to take any pictures..
Try doing a google on Limerick Leader/Post etc.

I'm not talking about the individual case. I would just like you to substantiate your wild, tabloid-style claims that muscle growth can "crush," the heart....

Transform

Mathew i am sure your girlfriend was shocked though the story has absolutely no validity and nothing to do with getting in shape.

If anything cardio can be more damaging to an older person who has possibly lost a lot of muscle mass over the years and does not want to fart about on a bike, treadmill etc and drop more muscle throughout doing this.

Yes people should be given a run through the gym but at the end of the day if they want to fire away doing their own thing a trainer can't stop them unless they have reported a heart condition on their joining form.

For the original poster - getting 'ripped' is all about diet and getting stronger. Cardio is a good addition but you can't out train a bad diet

amazingemmet

Some anecdoteal evidence from my uni shows heavy reisitance training to be more beneficial then running/ cycling etc.

The only training we do in uni for what I do is tumbling, hand balanacing and rings/straps thats all we do as part of thew program other people do running as part of their program. I do weights on the side as well but not the others, We done the bleep test at easter the me and the guys who train the same way finished it once easily then finished it again with 5 mins rest with the other group. None of the people who run regularly even finished the test.

kevpants

Mathew Reilly wrote: »

What as in a picture of the body? Sry my girlfriend was too freaked out by the corpse next to her in the gym to take any pictures..
Try doing a google on Limerick Leader/Post etc.

No one is doubting the guy died. People drop dead during all kinds of exercise all the time, Cormac MacEnalan (spelling) et al.

The point is you claim he died of Bigandmuscleyitis. What kind of gimpish mother nature would give you muscles that, if stengthened, will CRUSH YOUR HEART?

Pub07

Wow thats impressive!! A guy got so big he died!

Roper

Pub07 wrote: »

Wow thats impressive!! A guy got so big he died!

There's a little part of all of us that wants to go out in that way....

Wood

My guess would be he either:

(i) started taking creatine

(ii) Had protein rage so bad he went into cardiac arrest from the stress

Or

(iii) Worst of all, he used... dun dun dunnnnn CELL-TECH!!!!!!!

cowzerp

amazingemmet wrote: »

Hmmm challenge: Do a twenty rep set of squats with your 10rm rest pause style and tell me thats not cardio.

its not possible, 20 reps with a 10 rep max weight?

then the weight would clearly not be a 10 rep max weight!

weights have cardio benefits though that is for sure, as your heart has to work to move the muscles too!

kevpants

cowzerp wrote: »

its not possible, 20 reps with a 10 rep max weight?

then the weight would clearly not be a 10 rep max weight!

weights have cardio benefits though that is for sure, as your heart has to work to move the muscles too!

It can be done. You just take really long recovery pauses between reps. I'd advise a training partner to spot you / wipe the puke off your chin.

amazingemmet

cowzerp wrote: »

its not possible, 20 reps with a 10 rep max weight?

then the weight would clearly not be a 10 rep max weight!

weights have cardio benefits though that is for sure, as your heart has to work to move the muscles too!

Surely you read the challenge properly? Rest pause style, ie take three deep breaths between each rep, or rep out til ten, rest 15-20secs rep out again rest 15-20 secs repeat til twenty. Simple really

cowzerp

amazingemmet wrote: »

Surely you read the challenge properly? Rest pause style, ie take three deep breaths between each rep, or rep out til ten, rest 15-20secs rep out again rest 15-20 secs repeat til twenty. Simple really

Did not read it proper!

Bduffman

BossArky wrote: »

Do the weights first, then the cardio.

I have read this several times on different threads but no-one ever says why this is. Why is it more beneficial to do weights first?
Since joining a gym in January, I always do cardio first (mostly treadmill) and have progressed well past my original targets I set for myself & am still improving. I do weights after my runs and am extremely happy with the results there too - both in strength & body shape.

Am I missing something?

pvt.joker

Bduffman wrote: »

I have read this several times on different threads but no-one ever says why this is. Why is it more beneficial to do weights first?
Since joining a gym in January, I always do cardio first (mostly treadmill) and have progressed well past my original targets I set for myself & am still improving. I do weights after my runs and am extremely happy with the results there too - both in strength & body shape.

Am I missing something?

It's because you will naturally enough have more energy at the start of your workout rather than the end. So you can lift more, more easily.
At least that's my take on it.

BossArky

Bduffman wrote: »

I have read this several times on different threads but no-one ever says why this is. Why is it more beneficial to do weights first?
Since joining a gym in January, I always do cardio first (mostly treadmill) and have progressed well past my original targets I set for myself & am still improving. I do weights after my runs and am extremely happy with the results there too - both in strength & body shape.

Am I missing something?

The reason weights are advised before cardio (if you are looking to get big and defined) is that you want to tear your muscles up as much as possible. Doing weights first allows you to put all your energy into this.

Cardio afterwards allows you to burn a few extra cals once you have run out of steam for ripping your muscles apart.

Personally, I warn up with cardio and then do weights but don't do as I do, do as I tell you :P

Al_Fernz

BossArky wrote: »

The reason weights are advised before cardio (if you are looking to get big and defined) is that you want to tear your muscles up as much as possible. Doing weights first allows you to put all your energy into this.

Cardio afterwards allows you to burn a few extra cals once you have run out of steam for ripping your muscles apart.

Personally, I warn up with cardio and then do weights but don't do as I do, do as I tell you :P

Cardio after also decreases the risk of contracting the dreaded Bigandmuscleyitis. This means that your heart is strengthened for its battle against potentially hazardous muscle growth. Otherwise you are leaving yourself open to the risk of muscle smashing through your rib cage and smothering your internal organs... apparently:rolleyes:. /sarcasm.

I'd also agree that you should not do a full cardio session first. But remember that you also have to warm up. So if you want to do a 30 minute cardio session - you could do 10 minutes before you hit the iron as a warm up and 20 minutes after. IMO I would split it because I find it hard to do cardio for any great length of time. But OP find out what works for you...different strokes and all that.

Bduffman

Its pretty much as I thought - those whose main aim is to build muscle would naturally want to do that first. But if your main aim is to improve your general fitness wouldn't cardio first be better?
Anyone runners etc. out there?

edges

A few schools of thought on tha one.

In general I get clients to warm up (bit of cardio, joint rotations, specific etc) then hit weights, leave the cardio proper to the end. The main reason for this is safety.

If I have somebody (especially a beginner) lifting, I want them able to concentrate, adhere to lifting procedures and be aware of the weight. If they've just stepped off the treadmill and are seeing stars, this just aint gonna happen.

Now sometimes (only with experienced trainees) I'll have them lift weights while fatigued from the cardio. This preps them for the rigours of their chosen sport, or just meeses them up and makes their usuall training seem easier.
Because I train for athleticism, ie be bolloxed but still strong and powerfull, this is usefull.

If it's size you want, minimise the cardio or do sprints or (my favorite) use heavy duty circuits (kettlebells are mint for this) but keep the time short (ie pass out after 15-20 mins).

Dave
www.wg-fit.com