Pet issues and wildlife queries

NoNameRanger

This is some thing that has been discussed a few times but i thought it needed its own thread.
I think there is some confusion when people are posting here looking for advice on wild animals, when they should really be in Nature & Birdwatching, there are many examples of this here, such as the recent moth thread and the swallows thread.

It appears to me that this forum needs re-naming to Pet issues as this is what it deals with 99% of the time. The Nature & Birdwatching forum needs re-naming to Wildlife & Nature or Animals & Nature Conservation, or something similar.
I think this would serve people with animal problems or those looking for information on wildlife much better instead of splitting wildlife between 2 forums. There are conservationist on the nature forum that would be very helpful and more so than pet owners in wildlife situations.
How do people feel about this?

whitser

here here

animalcrazy

I agree

Honey-ec

I actually don't think it's necessary, tbh.

peasant

From a forum and administrative point of view I'd be inclined to agree with you, however I find it a bit sad that our understanding of animals, all animals, is now so screwed up that we would have to distinguish between pets, wild animals (and possibly farm animals as well) as we now seem to think that they are worthy of different degrees of recognition and respect and different principles of dealing with them ...but that's a topic for another day.

whitser

there is a difference on how they're treated.
we dont eat our pets,farm our pets etc....there is a world of difference between a wild animal and a pet.

peasant

whitser wrote: »

there is a world of difference between a wild animal and a pet.

Yes there is ...but fundamentally their all animals and should be treated with equal respect.

whitser

agreed.

whitser

but theres different issues that arise with wild animals that dont with pets and vise versa.

stevoman

i agree, i think pet issues and wild animals and nature conservation are completly different issues.

genegenie

Perhaps the problem is more likely the positioning of the boards. The Rec boards are listed alphabetically in the drop-down menu. Perhaps people who are posting about a wildlife related issue for the first time click on the menu, see "Animal and Pet Issues" at the very top of the list, think "that's what I want" and click it without looking any further. It could simply be that non-regulars to the animals boards miss the Nature and Birdwatching forum simply because it's a lot further down the list.

NoNameRanger

genegenie wrote: »

Perhaps the problem is more likely the positioning of the boards. The Rec boards are listed alphabetically in the drop-down menu. Perhaps people who are posting about a wildlife related issue for the first time click on the menu, see "Animal and Pet Issues" at the very top of the list, think "that's what I want" and click it without looking any further. It could simply be that non-regulars to the animals boards miss the Nature and Birdwatching forum simply because it's a lot further down the list.

You are probably right but when people see Animals & Pet Issues, they would probably assume that Animals means wild animals in this sense as Pets are animals also and that this forum must be designed to deal with both.
The fact of the matter is we have 2 forums currently dealing with wildlife matters, one of the two is 99% pet orientated, but gets the lions share of the wildlife material. So lets just remove the confusion.

Any mods about for their opinion on this? How difficult is it to change this?

ytpe2r5bxkn0c1

I have to agree wholeheartedly with you. This forum should be renamed Pet Issues because as Animals and... appears near the top of the list it is the one people go for with wildlife queries. There are actually more wildlife threads here than on the Nature & Birdwatching forum. I'd leave the name of the Nature forum as is and then Nature and Pets will be more or less beside each other for selection by a poster. I find I have to wade through Pet issues to find nature ones and it's a bit frustrating.
;)BK

John Griffin

I agree!

Pye

peasant wrote: »

Yes there is ...but fundamentally their all animals and should be treated with equal respect.

I can't really see how separating the two could translate to lack of respect. In my opinion it makes sense that different levels of "animal" are treated accordingly. Pets, farm animals and wildlife are treated very differently on account of their domestication or lack of, this doesn't mean one has little or no respect for them and their needs. I actually like that there is a specific "pet" forum for specific questions and advise relating the health and welfare of domesticated companion animals. Wild animals are treated differently but with the same amount of respect for their needs and I feel it's better to discuss them on a forum dedicated to them such as the wildlife one. This would ensure everything is taken into account from their natural habitat to diet. It's also more likely someone with more knowledge on such wild creatures is browsing that forum rather than a section reserved for pets or livestock (farmed animals).

Vegeta

I support this idea

If the mods here agree then I'd send a PM to Cloud and the CMod of this category and see what happens

Veg

doctor evil

Here Here NNR

peasant

A slightly provocative question ...

Will this new shape wildlife forum become a branch of the hunting forum under the cover of "conservation"?

Because I don't really see that working :pac:

NoNameRanger

peasant wrote: »

A slightly provocative question ...

Will this new shape wildlife forum become a branch of the hunting forum under the cover of "conservation"?

Because I don't really see that working :pac:

Slightly provocative? I'd say thats seriously provocative!!:rolleyes:
Do you have a problem with people that hunt taking an interest in wildlife and conservation? They also have an interest in pets, motors, personal issues, etc, etc. But because hunters spend so much time in the countryside and watching and studying wildlife they generally have a greater interest and knowledge of it than most people.
Some Hunters currently post in the Nature & Birdwatching forum and the Animals & Pets Issues. Every user of boards is free to do likewise and express their opinion. And yes some of the hunters are very supportive of this change because they are more interested in wildlife than pets but must search through the pet issues to find the wildlife posts.

Hunters have their own forum and you are free to post their if you wish also, that's including all the users of the pet forum or any other provided you are not trolling.
I really would love to know where you are going with this? When the forums are renamed would you like to have certain criteria attached to them, such as users must never have killed a wild animal from a fly to a deer.
Do you really hate hunters that much or is it that you just haven't taken the time to know them.:D They are alot better for the environment than farmers.:D

You really are bordering on trolling by the way:rolleyes:

peasant

1st ...I don't hate hunters and 2nd I'm not trolling.

What brought this discussion on is the no violence rule in the current pet forum, where it has been debated if a discussion on culling "vermin" should be allowed or not

Consensus seems to be that shooting / killing animals should not be mentioned in the pets forum (which I personally don't agree with, I think we should be able to discuss all aspects)

On foot of that Hellrazer started the other thread trying to gauge the mood of the forum and to put an end to the "us v them" thing that was going on.

Now we have heavy support from hunters for a dedicated wildlife forum.

I personally don't like the direction this is going ...we will have two animal fora and one will be "ours" and the other "theirs".


What I'd like to see is one animals forum that covers all animals pet, farmed or wild and deals with all aspects of animal life ...the fluffy side as well as nature at its cruelest.

What I'd like to happen is for both extreme wings of "animal lovers" to open their eyes, see the other side and find a middle ground. I'd like to see a healthy debate and some understanding for each others points of view ...hopefully resulting in the best treatment for all animals.

I think that some people on the "fluffy" side of things need their eyes opened to harsh reality some times and some of members of the other side could do with being taken down a step or two from their "king of creation" throne.

But whatever about the different fora and their members ...personally I don't think that it would be in the interest of the animals ...all animals ...if we put the discussion about them on two different tracks.

There is a middle ground between "fluffy" and "cruel nature". This is where we should find ourselves. A dog can be a best friend or a sheep killer...a bunny can be a pet or a pest ...I don't like the idea of them being discussed as either/or on two different platforms. I also don't like the idea that by ways of separation some people will be given the justification for closing their eyes towards the reality of things. That way will will never learn and understand the whole thruth.

Both sides have something to learn from each other ...and they should, for the benefit of the animals. The polarisation that is happening here isn't good for the animals nor for the forum ...in my opinion anyway.

carwash_2006

+1

Perhaps there could be an animal forum with sub forums of pet issues and wildlife. That would give the people who aren't really interested in the pet side easier access, but still keep them somewhat linked.

Whispered

peasant wrote: »

I think that some people on the "fluffy" side of things need their eyes opened to harsh reality some times and some of members of the other side could do with being taken down a step or two from their "king of creation" throne.

But whatever about the different fora and their members ...personally I don't think that it would be in the interest of the animals ...all animals ...if we put the discussion about them on two different tracks.

...I don't like the idea of them being discussed as either/or on two different platforms. I also don't like the idea that by ways of separation some people will be given the justification for closing their eyes towards the reality of things. That way will will never learn and understand the whole thruth.

Both sides have something to learn from each other ...and they should, for the benefit of the animals. The polarisation that is happening here isn't good for the animals nor for the forum ...in my opinion anyway.

+1

NoNameRanger

At the moment we have 3 forums dealing with animal issues, Animals & Pet issues and Nature & birdwatching and Hunting. These exist as it stands.

The fluffy people you refer to:) are on the Animals & Pet Issues forum and they have made a ruling that they don't want to hear about culling or killing of animals, which is fine, but i don't agree with it!

The Nature & Birdwatching is made up of true conservationist , for example Mothman and Srameen amongst others who do not hunt but accept culling as part of conservation, though they do not do it themselves. We have Wildlife photographers, Wildlife Rangers and professional conservationists. Hunters frequent the forum because they are interested in Wildlife. This should be the middle ground where the hunters and the fluffy side can meet and the conservationists are the voice of reason with the knowledge to back it up.
The Hunters have their own forum and they can talk about killing animals as much as they like provided it is done legally.

At the moment the pet forum is stealing posts from the wildlife forum because of the way it is named. I have suggested that this be changed. On an admin level it makes sense to separate Pets and wildlife matters simply because there are far more posts on Pets than Wildlife and the wildlife posts get lost among the pet posts.

I agree with opening peoples eyes to to real world of animals and to show the fluffy side that it isn't always so pleasant. But you can't ram it down their throats either, hence the ban on mentioning culling and killing on their pets forum. And the gagging of the hunters and professional conservationists on mistakenly posted wildlife issues, posted in the pets forum.

If culling and killing cannot be mentioned on this forum then that is not the place for wildlife posts.
There is a world of difference between pets and wildlife and the way they should be handled, that is why they should be separated.

I have no problem with an "Animals" forum with two sub forums called "Pets" and "Wildlife". At least it would be clear where the wildlife posts should be going. To one place only!

By the way you started calling them the fluffy side.:D:D:D

Hellrazer

Agreed with the OP.
Ill pm an admin now and try get it changed to "Pets"

Or maybe even a different structure ie

Animals and 2 sub fora of pets and wildlife.

@ Nonameranger---Im still considering the issue regarding the "culling or killing of animals" and Im strongly coming down on the side of allowing it to be discussed.

After this thread surely the "wildlife" part would be more suited for this discussion and keep the "pets" forum for the cuddly side of things.


Peasant does make the point that its still splitting the issue in two which is what I dont really want to happen as it doesnt stop the stupid "us and them" mentality of pro versus anti hunting.

It seems to me that its not going to work out by having one forum covering all issues and a separate "wildlife" one is a necessity.

Richie.

Our man in Havana

Animals and 2 sub fora of pets and wildlife.

+1

It would make sense.

convert

Would definitely make a huge amount of sense if the two were separated for a myriad of reasons

stevoman

Hellrazer wrote: »

Agreed with the OP.
Ill pm an admin now and try get it changed to "Pets"

Or maybe even a different structure ie

Animals and 2 sub fora of pets and wildlife.

@ Nonameranger---Im still considering the issue regarding the "culling or killing of animals" and Im strongly coming down on the side of allowing it to be discussed.

After this thread surely the "wildlife" part would be more suited for this discussion and keep the "pets" forum for the cuddly side of things.


Peasant does make the point that its still splitting the issue in two which is what I dont really want to happen as it doesnt stop the stupid "us and them" mentality of pro versus anti hunting.

It seems to me that its not going to work out by having one forum covering all issues and a separate "wildlife" one is a necessity.

Richie.

fairplay hellrazer. i think it makes sense too.

NoNameRanger

Hellrazer wrote: »

Agreed with the OP.
Ill pm an admin now and try get it changed to "Pets"

Or maybe even a different structure ie

Animals and 2 sub fora of pets and wildlife.

@ Nonameranger---Im still considering the issue regarding the "culling or killing of animals" and Im strongly coming down on the side of allowing it to be discussed.

After this thread surely the "wildlife" part would be more suited for this discussion and keep the "pets" forum for the cuddly side of things.


Peasant does make the point that its still splitting the issue in two which is what I dont really want to happen as it doesnt stop the stupid "us and them" mentality of pro versus anti hunting.

It seems to me that its not going to work out by having one forum covering all issues and a separate "wildlife" one is a necessity.

Richie.

Thanks for taking this suggestion on and i look forward to seeing the changes and using the forums in the future.

One thing i would suggest is that if we are to go the route of an Animals forum with a Pets and a Wildlife sub-forum, that the Nature & Birdwatching forum and its contents be moved and used for the wildlife forum.

NoNameRanger

@ Hellrazer, Any response from Admin on this yet?

Hellrazer

NoNameRanger wrote: »

@ Hellrazer, Any response from Admin on this yet?

No word back yet mate.

NoNameRanger

Hellrazer wrote: »

No word back yet mate.

I fear this is going to be forgotten about and that this thread will have been a waste of everybodies time here. How hard can it be to make the changes or at least get a decision?
In the meantime would it be possible for the mods to move any threads containing wildlife content to the Nature and Birdwatching forum. The most recent one i've found is the one looking for release sites for foxes.

Our man in Havana

I shall look into it.

NoNameRanger

Any word yet?

Our man in Havana

Not a sausage. Sorry.

Nothingcompares

I like putting labels on boxes so I fully support the motion. But haven't said that I haven't seen many threads misplaced. Maybe misplaced threads should just be moved across and we'll judge the need of a fora rename based on the number of threads moved.