Length of my ban a bit long?

jtsuited

ok since i know a few people are waiting for it.

i got banned here http://boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2055342873

Now I completely acccept the banning. It's just the length of it seems far too harsh (one month).

Oh and as you will read the mod (who is also the op) says wildly contradictory things throughout the thread about his original post (which everyone else seems to have perceived in the same way I did).

I broke charter rules admittedly, but the original post also breaks charter rules re: offensive remarks and flaming etc.

This had been a hot topic of debate before and the mod in question had already said many things in the 'Peter Hook lol' thread leading to most posters seeing exactly what he was getting at with this thread.
I was not going to beat around the bush though (as more than a few posters have pointed out).

I'm not here to appeal my ban. Just the severity. And because I reckon there are a few people who would enjoy the entertainment!!:D

edit: i'm in the mood for some really good lolcats so get the best ones out.

Xavi6

Your link to the thread is full of fail

jtsuited

Xavi6 wrote: »

Your link to the thread is full of fail

sorry yeah fixed. thanks

challengemaster

I think a month is fine.. seems generous tbh.

Oh, and when a charter says 'no flaming/offensive remarks' - it means _TOWARDS_ other posters. Eg. Calling someone a twat, or stupid, etc. Like you have done. I don't see that anywhere in the OP's post..

jtsuited

challengemaster wrote: »

Oh, and when a charter says 'no flaming/offensive remarks' - it means _TOWARDS_ other posters. Eg. Calling someone a twat, or stupid, etc. Like you have done. I don't see that anywhere in the OP's post..

well actually i thought that too until a few weeks ago i said something about israel(don't ask) and a mod referred me to the offensive remarks part of the charter.

was he wrong then? As admittedly according to his perception of the charter I was breaking it.

jtsuited

challengemaster wrote: »

Eg. Calling someone a twat, or stupid, etc. Like you have done. ..

technically speaking i don't think i called anyone any names. if you look closely i called the posts pretty bad names but i don't think i directly called anyone anything.

lorweld

To be fair I think the mod in question started a thread that he knew would start war! The mod then proceeded to give out and rant about the op after he was banned. Why not take his own advice and open up a thread in feedback? However, Jtsuited, I feel the ban was fair and justified. Take it on the chin man, the month will fly by.

jtsuited

like i say i accept the ban.

just seems like (as you say) the mod should really heed his own advice. Especially his comments after i was banned.

CHD

1 week ban imo

o1s1n

You deserved to be banned for the way you acted, but to be honest the moderator didn't exactly help with his opening post. He's meant to be keeping peace in the forum, not riling people up. What kind of reactions was he expecting? I mean he even said it in the OP -

'..................OK....I know I shouldn't.'

The best course of action there would have been to get another impartial moderator to step in and sort it. If I'd started a thread with an opening post on par with that one and somebody really took offense, I certainly wouldn't moderate it myself.

Given the circumstances, a 1 month ban is far too long. I'd half it at least.

Beruthiel

Your behaviour in that thread was appalling and arrogant.

Your months ban is deserved.

pvt.joker

CHD wrote: »

1 week ban imo

come off it will you, its a months ban easily.

Beruthiel

pvt.joker,
Have you forgotten my warning?

Sherifu

Perhaps 2 weeks would have been enough, may I suggest anger management? Yourself and Curtis might swing a 2 for 1...

jtsuited wrote: »

ok since i know a few people are waiting for it.

.o/

sei046

Hey guys,
I gave the ban. This was my first ban as I dont like the idea of banning at all. There needs to be a little bit of play or leeway but in this case he got that for a few threads until he just stepped over the line a bit too much. A few users had been saying for a while that this should have happened before and I defended him, I also Pmd him on another occasion to get him out of a banning from another mod.

1 month seems the minimum for that behaviour. Its got to the stage on that thread that a few lads are just looking for fights and they see some topics as a good medium. TBH Im done with entertaining these lads. Its a very short list of topics you can discuss now thanks to this behaviour.

pvt.joker

Beruthiel wrote: »

pvt.joker,
Have you forgotten my warning?

sorry

_blank_

sei046 wrote: »

I dont like the idea of banning at all.

I don't like to comment on another mod's moderation tactics, but...

sei046 wrote: »

Its a very short list of topics you can discuss now thanks to this behaviour.

Discussion in your forum is stifled because of the behaviour of these people? That can't be good.

Perhaps earlier bannings would haved had them cop on, or in fact, found themselves perma-banned, and normal, non-confrontational posters could get on with it?

5starpool

Seems like a storm in a teacup to me, and the root of the problem seemed to be that a somewhat inflammatory thread was started by a mod of the forum, and the only other post in that thread (before the banning at least, I didn't read after that) by a mod of that forum is to disagree with the OP, and not at all in a moderating capacity, and considering the mod who did the banning was the one at the centre of the thread, he perhaps should have asked another mod there to look at it and see if JT was out of order and to what degreee, but some of the backtracking by the OP in that thread didn't help things either.

I'm not saying JT wasn't flirting heaving with the line, but a month ban seems way too over the top to me. Just for disclosure, I do know JT outside of boards, but that hasn't made my opinion different I think. A week would be plenty tbh

Come back and talk poker Jeff, forget this music lark for a while

Beruthiel

Des wrote: »

Perhaps earlier bannings would haved had them cop on, or in fact, found themselves perma-banned, and normal, non-confrontational posters could get on with it?

Have to agree with Des.
If these people are ruining your forum and making discussion on may topics difficult, then it's time you started handing out bans sooner for the good of the forum.

If you need help with this or advice when in doubt, you are welcome to drop me a PM or ask for advice in the Mod forum.

faceman

sei046 wrote: »

Its a very short list of topics you can discuss now thanks to this behaviour.

Please excuse my ignorance as i havent been to the music prod forum before, however it seems a shame that bad posters are dictating what can and cant be discussed in the forum. If that was the case all over the site, i imagine there would be no soccer or politics forums (to name but a few).

Perhaps a re-think on managing muppetry etc would be worth considering?

jtsuited

Beruthiel wrote: »

Your behaviour in that thread was appalling and arrogant.

Your months ban is deserved.

last time i checked the charter there was nothing outlawing arrogance.

Beruthiel

jtsuited wrote: »

last time i checked the charter there was nothing outlawing arrogance.

Your attitude stinks in that thread, if you cannot see that, then there in lies your problem.
Arrogance may not be covered in the charter because a certain level of manners is just expected without it having to be covered.

jtsuited

5starpool wrote: »

Seems like a storm in a teacup to me, and the root of the problem seemed to be that a somewhat inflammatory thread was started by a mod of the forum, and the only other post in that thread (before the banning at least, I didn't read after that) by a mod of that forum is to disagree with the OP, and not at all in a moderating capacity, and considering the mod who did the banning was the one at the centre of the thread, he perhaps should have asked another mod there to look at it and see if JT was out of order and to what degreee, but some of the backtracking by the OP in that thread didn't help things either.

I'm not saying JT wasn't flirting heaving with the line, but a month ban seems way too over the top to me. Just for disclosure, I do know JT outside of boards, but that hasn't made my opinion different I think. A week would be plenty tbh

Come back and talk poker Jeff, forget this music lark for a while

Alright dom. I'd go talk poker if i didn't keep doing my roll in on the microstakes (my game has gone to sh1te!).
Like I say, I know I was breaking the rules, but in the context of the inflammatory post by a mod, and then the backtracking and whatnot, I feel the ban is way too long.

It really does seem like a personal thing to ban me for that long, and I feel that the mod thinks he'd have an easier time posting such nonsense in future if he can keep me under the kosh like this.

jtsuited

Beruthiel wrote: »

Your attitude stinks in that thread, QUOTE]

As does the mod's. As more than me have pointed out.

dr.bollocko

There seems to be a lot of anger on that thread. I cant speak for the forum as a whole, but on that particular thread there was a lot of abuse going around.
It might stick to the charter, but young PaulBrewer made a fair point that that kind of stuff should be dealt with clearly and unambiguously by the mods.
A month's ban to a few users may get them to cop on.
Or at least voice their objections in a sane sounding non-rant rather than peppering posts with incendiary waffle.

Beruthiel

jtsuited wrote: »

As does the mod's. As more than me have pointed out.

In your and their opinion.
However, you have come to this forum asking the powers that be if the ban was too long. I have given my answer.

_blank_

jtsuited,

If you have an issuw with a Moderator, there are a number of options open to you to address the issue.

1. Continue to fight the good fight here in feedback, it could turn into a bitch-fest, a-la this, and you might get a few users backing you up, and feel justified in starting the thread, but nothing will really be done.

2. Go to the CMod of the Category in which the forum you have the issue in is. Ask them to look over the thread, and see if they agree with you, maybe they can have a word with the mod. If that isn't concluded to your liking then...

3. Go to Helpdesk, in there only SMods and Admins can reply to you, not mods, not other users, if an issue is shown to be real, then the SMods will have a word with the mod, and try to get something sorted.

pvt.joker

jtsuited wrote: »

Beruthiel wrote: »

Your attitude stinks in that thread, QUOTE]

As does the mod's. As more than me have pointed out.

Your issue has been dealt with by an admin. Your next step is helpdesk should you still feel aggrieved. I would suggest dropping it and accepting your ban.

jtsuited

Beruthiel wrote: »

In your and their opinion.
However, you have come to this forum asking the powers that be if the ban was too long. I have given my answer.

That doesn't seem like an arrogant post at all:rolleyes:

Beruthiel

jtsuited wrote: »

That doesn't seem like an arrogant post at all:rolleyes:

Well I thought it was a pretty straight answer to your question.
If it's not then I am unsure why exactly you have posted a thread in this forum.
What was it you were looking for?

jtsuited

Beruthiel wrote: »

What was it you were looking for?

to see if others agreed (or disagreed) that the ban was too harsh.

You may have noticed that a good few people do in fact agree. And a few don't.
The fact that you don't doesn't exactly put an end to it, especially as there seems to be a modding issue with the forum (according to other mods who have posted in this thread).

Beruthiel

jtsuited wrote: »

The fact that you don't doesn't exactly put an end to it

It pretty much does.

especially as there seems to be a modding issue with the forum (according to other mods who have posted in this thread).

Aye
We think the Mod of that forum should probably be handing out more bans. I have offered to help him out with that.

jtsuited

Des wrote: »

jtsuited,

If you have an issuw with a Moderator, there are a number of options open to you to address the issue.

1. Continue to fight the good fight here in feedback, it could turn into a bitch-fest, a-la this, and you might get a few users backing you up, and feel justified in starting the thread, but nothing will really be done.

2. Go to the CMod of the Category in which the forum you have the issue in is. Ask them to look over the thread, and see if they agree with you, maybe they can have a word with the mod. If that isn't concluded to your liking then...

3. Go to Helpdesk, in there only SMods and Admins can reply to you, not mods, not other users, if an issue is shown to be real, then the SMods will have a word with the mod, and try to get something sorted.

thanks des, i was starting this thread to see if others thought it would actually be worth going to the CMod or helpdesk.
I mean if enough people say 'completely justified, don't bother going to the cmod', then i won't.
But that is certainly not the concensus in this thread, so I await further opinion.

jtsuited

Beruthiel wrote: »

It pretty much does.

.

I didn't know that. May I ask why? Are you the CMod?

jimi_t

IMO (for what it's worth) I'd definitely appeal it; a week maybe, a month no.

(as an aside, if anyone decides to step down as Mod of said forum, I'm very happy to take it on. Just saying )

_blank_

jtsuited wrote: »

I didn't know that. May I ask why? Are you the CMod?

She's an SMod.

When you said you "await further opinion" do you mean in here, feedback, or have you opened another channel of communication?

If you mean, here, in feedback, well then, you are going with option 1 in my post above.

not very sensible, imo, trying to get a rabble to back you up.

Either you believe in your convictions yourself, and feel your argument has merit, or you don't.

Beruthiel

jtsuited wrote: »

I didn't know that. May I ask why? Are you the CMod?

Smod and mod of this forum.

togster

completely justified. Don't bother going to a Cmod.

Laters x

5starpool

jtsuited wrote: »

I didn't know that. May I ask why? Are you the CMod?

She is the boss of cmods in a manner of speaking. As I said, I think it is overly harsh, but then again I don't know of what other stuff you may or may not have posted in that forum. One way or another (and since I have as much influence in that forum as you) I think your appeal is futile at this point.

Accept the ban, post in one of the other 83 (ish) music forums here, and then once you get back in word things a bit more diplomatically. There is more than one way to skin a cat etc etc.

cornbb

Cmods don't tend to get involved in forum policy, such as overturning bans, afaik. Perhaps Karl Hungus could clarify that if he reads this.

Beruthiel, perhaps you should clarify whether, in the light of the new Feedback rules, you and the other smods have the power of "final say" in these Feedback threads? I'm not getting a clear picture here.

As a former mod of the Music Production forum I have to say that jtsuited's posts do not in any way "ruin" the forum and it is unfair to say that they do. He is a regular and knowledgeable contributer.

I do agree that a ban was deserved, however - sei's opening post may have been a bit inflammatory but jtsuited's attitude was borderline abusive. As for the length of the ban - this was his second time getting banned for having a pop at PaulBrewer. If it was a first offense I'd call the ban harsh. But it wasn't.

seamus

I'm baffled by what you're trying to achieve here.

Boards isn't a democracy. Getting people to support you doesn't make a difference.

If you feel a ban or the length of it is unfair, then points 2 & 3 in Des's post are your main options (after discussing it with the mod in question). You shouldn't need other people's opinions - either you feel that it's unfair or you don't.

To save you the trip to the Helpdesk, I will also say that the ban is valid. So if you go to the helpdesk, you now know what you'll be told by at least two of us.

That whole thread was a mess tbh. When someone posts something that gets your back up, as sei clearly did, then push your chair back, walk away, go have a ****/piss or get a cup of coffee or go for a walk or something, then come back and pick his post apart, bit by bit, in a calm and rational manner and show the poster up to be completely wrong and make them look the fool.

Getting annoyed, resorting to questioning someone else's web activites or their skills in the area, or otherwise slinging insults, only makes one person look like a fool.

Whether the person starting the thread is a mod or not is irrelevant. sei clearly has an interest in the area, so is entitled to start threads just like anyone else, whether or not they cause people to get annoyed. Moderators are not required to sit on a forum and do nothing but moderate.

An appropriate response would have been, "sei, you're wrong. And here's why...". The incorrect response was, "You're genuinely coming across as a complete yokel who has never been exposed to dance music of any form".
From there, it just became a train wreck.

My 2c is that one of the other mods should have stepped in long before that and started cleaning up. If this is typical of how threads are carried on, then the perpetrators (there are always one or two) should receive the traditional slap on the wrists of a ban.

You stood out in this thread and received the slap. You haven't disagreed with sei that this was a long time coming, so I'm going to assume it was. So a month sounds about right.

Beruthiel

cornbb wrote: »

Beruthiel, perhaps you should clarify whether, in the light of the new Feedback rules, you and the other smods have the power of "final say" in these Feedback threads?

Yes. We do.
It is no longer humanly possible for the Admins to check in here enough for it to count.
They have busy lives and Boards has gotten too big for them to manage alone.
So whither it is here or the Help Desk, Smods have final say on topics we consider easily dealt with.

cornbb

Beruthiel wrote: »

Yes. We do.
It is no longer humanly possible for the Admins to check in here enough for it to count.
They have busy lives and Boards has gotten too big for them to manage alone.
So whither it is here or the Help Desk, Smods have final say on topics we consider easily dealt with.

Cool, thanks for the clarification.

jtsuited

seamus wrote: »

That whole thread was a mess tbh. When someone posts something that gets your back up, as sei clearly did, then push your chair back, walk away, go have a ****/piss or get a cup of coffee or go for a walk or something, then come back and pick his post apart, bit by bit, in a calm and rational manner and show the poster up to be completely wrong and make them look the fool.

.

fair points, but tbh when someone who has posted up similar nonsense before starts at it again, he knows what's going to happen.

And while my dissection of his points was indeed in breach of many rules, i think it was entirely rational. Wasn't calm but was logical.

thanks for saving me the bother of going to the helpdesk.

oh and the reason i posted it is the reason that many people post on boards, to see if they're alone in thinking something or maybe leaving something out of their train of thought.
I know boards isn't a democracy (thanks be to Jeebus) and I was in no way going to use this thread as some sort 'look everyone thinks i'm right, shorten my ban' thing.

jtsuited

cornbb wrote: »

As a former mod of the Music Production forum I have to say that jtsuited's posts do not in any way "ruin" the forum and it is unfair to say that they do. He is a regular and knowledgeable contributer.

I do agree that a ban was deserved, however - sei's opening post may have been a bit inflammatory but jtsuited's attitude was borderline abusive. As for the length of the ban - this was his second time getting banned for having a pop at PaulBrewer. If it was a first offense I'd call the ban harsh. But it wasn't.

thanks cornbb, because the mod and paul brewer are pretty much trying to make out that I am ruining that forum a good few times in that thread. and i am very insulted by that coming from a mod.

fair play to you for saying this after i was a complete jackass before about 'that' thing. I would hope that I would be so gentlemanly in the same situation (i really don't think i could be so fair play, genuinely sound of you).

seamus

jtsuited wrote: »

oh and the reason i posted it is the reason that many people post on boards, to see if they're alone in thinking something or maybe leaving something out of their train of thought.

Ok, that's not a problem.

cornbb

jtsuited wrote: »

thanks cornbb, because the mod and paul brewer are pretty much trying to make out that I am ruining that forum a good few times in that thread. and i am very insulted by that coming from a mod.

fair play to you for saying this after i was a complete jackass before about 'that' thing. I would hope that I would be so gentlemanly in the same situation (i really don't think i could be so fair play, genuinely sound of you).

Don't mention it. I'm not having a go here... but its clear you still have a massive chip on your shoulder towards Paul, and any attempt by him or the mods to point this out shouldn't be interpreted as an insult, they're just fed up with you sniping at him, which is fair enough. You should really try to get along with him, I can't see why you won't.

jtsuited

cornbb wrote: »

Don't mention it. I'm not having a go here... but its clear you still have a massive chip on your shoulder towards Paul, and any attempt by him or the mods to point this out shouldn't be interpreted as an insult, they're just fed up with you sniping at him, which is fair enough. You should really try to get along with him, I can't see why you won't.

In fairness he makes plenty of more subtle jibes at me all the time. I'm not very subtle when it comes to these things because I hate snideness. More of a 'tell them what you really think' person. I think it's more decent.

he was clearly having a go at me before I took a go at him in that thread. Just mine was a little less veiled and a lot more entertaining!

sei046

Oh for god sake! Will you drop it! You got out of line, you got banned. Done! Look You should have been banned before ok? simple as.

The reason you saw the thread is silly was because anything to do with Djing cannot be spoken about in a bad light. Not even Djs, As much as a gig with a Dj at it is out of bounds. You jumped STRAIGHT in after my opening post about the night and went insane.

Enough is enough man, I got you out of jams before, not this time. Its a month ban from a forum, suck it up, come back and post with a little less agro towards everyone. Put it to be please

jtsuited

sei046 wrote: »

Oh for god sake! Will you drop it! You got out of line, you got banned. Done! Look You should have been banned before ok? simple as.

You told me to take it to feedback. I have.

sei046 wrote: »

The reason you saw the thread is silly was because anything to do with Djing cannot be spoken about in a bad light. Not even Djs, As much as a gig with a Dj at it is out of bounds. You jumped STRAIGHT in after my opening post about the night and went insane.

Is that the reason most other posters saw the thread as silly too? The reason I saw the thread as silly was you were alluding to something which was based on a nonsensical thought process. A point made by almost everyone else in said thread. And if you weren't alluding to what everyone thinks you were, it was a silly thread because it was a pointless rant.
Also pointed out by a good few other people on the thread.

sei046 wrote: »

Enough is enough man, I got you out of jams before, not this time. Its a month ban from a forum, suck it up, come back and post with a little less agro towards everyone. Put it to be please

Two people I gave agro to in that thread - you and Paul Brewer. That is not everyone. That is two people. Who I made my point about quite clearly about in the thread.

Don't get so dramatic Sei (to quote you). You said bring it to feedback. I did. A good few people feel that the ban is too harsh and/or you weren't modding the place well. And then you tell me to drop it?

Why don't you just be honest the next time and say 'stop attracting attention to my modding errors and silly behaviour in a thread where you were banned'?

Gone West

jtsuited wrote: »

Length of my ban a bit long?

Thats what she said
<_<
>_>



(sorry)