Replacing the entire fleet of Garda cars!

magick

Given the current car the Police are driving around in, do you think the police are getting the best car they can get ?

Now im not talking of replacing all the fleet with lambos or Astin Martins, but what would you replac the Garda Cars with if you were in charge? something within reason.

colm_mcm

I'd be going diesel, reducing the CO2 output of one of the biggest (if not the biggest) fleets of cars on Irish roads, thus showing the public that CO2 based VRT intends to reduce CO2 output rather than bag more revenue.

Maybe some Mondeo TDCI's? sounds crazy, but it might work

Wishbone Ash

colm_mcm wrote: »

thus showing the public that CO2 based VRT intends to reduce CO2 output rather than bag more revenue

....but vehicles owned by the state are exempt from VRT anyway!

FGR

Forget the CO2 business - it's more about MPG and Performance for a modern Garda Car.

The Mondeo is a very good patrol car..all it requires is adapting to Police Specifications and the introduction of 2 litre TDCI's as standard.

colm_mcm

Wishbone Ash wrote: »

....but vehicles owned by the state are exempt from VRT anyway!

I know this, even if they paid VRT, it'd be going back to the state!

what I'm saying is the state should lead be example and change to lower CO2 cars and "save the world" , even if the Garda cars are exempt from VRT or road tax, they still contribute to our CO2 output,

if they continue with 2.0 petrol Mondeos they're saying that it's ok for the Garda cars to produce high CO2 levels with petrol cars, (even though a diesel can offer similar/better performance to petrol) but if anyone else wants to opt for petrol over diesel they'll have to pay for the privelage in higher VRT and motor tax.

There is some excuse for Gardai not using diesels to do with the national fuel reserve, despite the army using diesel jeeps, and the Garda vans running on diesel...

JHMEG

No one car fits all. The Gardaí need a variety from Aigos up to Evo X's and a few in between. X5's and a few others I don't get tho.

Of course they also need to be trained not to leave the keys in the ignition when they get out of the car.

mickdw

Mondeo diesel is a good patrol car for general use. I would buy a number of impreza turbos for specific traffic duties and emergency response, maybe 1 car in 10 and perhaps some smaller cheaper cars for non emergency response activities.

keefg

colm_mcm wrote: »

what I'm saying is the state should lead be example and change to lower CO2 cars and "save the world" ...

Good point.....maybe they could use electric powered vehicles for city centre use?

No good for high speed chases of course but they could be used for general urban patrols or community policing.

Steve

Maybe they should buy some of these....:pac:

E92

I'm going to spoil this debate by telling you that all future state cars will be diesel powered for the foreseeable future.

Any 07 Mondeo I've seen had an unmistakable diesel rattle coming from it.

There's no real need for petrol power for state vehicles really.

They might as well use the fuel savings that diesel provides to pay for the increased costs of running our "health service" because of all the ill affects on our health that we must all suffer to help save the planet(yeah, like one country with 4 million of the world's 6 billion people will make such a difference, won't it Mr Gormley?)

colm_mcm

Any Garda cars I see, (and I see quite a few) are petrol LX models.

I wonder how much saving there actually is once you take the tax out of the 2 fuels.

mcwhirter

How about the sinclair C5?

Steve

E92 wrote: »

They might as well use the fuel savings that diesel provides to pay for the increased costs of running our "health service" because of all the ill affects on our health that we must all suffer to help save the planet

I presume you mean the health effects from diesel emmissions?

If so then I agree 100%

Senna

mcwhirter wrote: »

How about the sinclair C5?

E92

Yup, that's what I meant, sorry.

Below is a link to the inaugural Green car awards by What Car?

http://www.whatcar.com/news-special-report.aspx?NA=233126

Notice that hybrids only feature in the luxury saloon segment and also have a look at the petrol vs diesel emissions.

It is very clear that the while the EU allows diesels to produce 5 times more NOx than petrols, in reality petrol engines are so much cleaner that petrols can be up to 20 times better for our health.

Have a look at this page.

Notice how the FIAT 500 1.2 pollutes 6.43 times less NOx than the Opel Corsa 1.3 CDTi, which also has a FIAT engine, and the Corsa also pollutes 0.02 g/km of cancer causing particulates too.

Oh and for the benefit of those who think direct injection petrol is "bad" on health grounds then can they explain to me why the Audi A8 2.8 manages to pollute just 0.017 g/km of NOx, 11.6 times less than a Merc S320 CDI, AND half the NOx of a Fiat 500 1.2 Pop which has old fashioned indirect injection?

JHMEG

Here we go OT again: No diesel should be considered "green". Black, as in death, is a better descriptive colour. Direct injection petrols should also be also described as black.

Back OT, if the civil sevants had any wit there'd be a combination of Aigos, Civic Hybrids, Imprezas as well as run of the mill Astras and Mondeos, as in the UK.

Steve

E92 wrote: »

Notice that hybrids only feature in the luxury saloon segment and also have a look at the petrol vs diesel emissions.

I'm surprised the Lexus hybrid didn't do better.

In saying that, it's an animal of a car to go though - there's not much around that would keep up with it..:D

At least the awards are honest - taking into account the actual NOx and PP emmissions rather that just the government enforced CO2 levels.

Tipsy Mac

The fleet of cars doesn't matter too much, what does matter is the technology used within each car, eg number plate recognition setup, onboard computer, all cars linked to car database etc. The current level of technology in the cars is the worst in Europe, perhaps the modern world, not the fault of the Gardai but the idiots running the country.

Seth Brundle

Tipsy Mac wrote: »

The current level of technology in the cars is the worst in Europe, perhaps the modern world, not the fault of the Gardai but the idiots running the country.

...and who put them there?

JHMEG

kbannon wrote: »

...and who put them there?

You tell me/us? That would be the permanent government, aka the civil and public service.

Tipsy Mac

kbannon wrote: »

...and who put them there?

Idiots

E92

JHMEG wrote: »

Direct injection petrols should also be also described as black.

Why, when as I've shown already a direct injection Audi A8 pollutes half as much NOx than a Fiat 500 1.2 which has old fashioned indirect injection.

The MINI Cooper S, which also has direct injection is a massive 6.8 times better for NOx than the indirect injection FIAT. It's also 2.2 times better for NOx than the indirect injection Hyundai i30 1.4, and 2.4 times better than the Suzuki SX4, which surprise surprise doesn't have direct injection either:rolleyes:.

JHMEG

E92 wrote: »

Why, when as I've shown already a direct injection

Heavy particulates, which cause cancer. As I and peasant have pointed out, petrols have never produced heavy particlates before DI.

NOx cause respiratory problems like asthma. Not great either, but not creeping death.

colm_mcm

not doubting your figures E92, but the i30 and the SX4 are two unusual cars to single out, is there any particular reason for quoting these not-too-common cars?

dingding

Lexus RX 400h for performance.


http://www.greencarcongress.com/2005/08/rx_400h_heading.html

Toyota Prius for everthing else.

http://www.nytimes.com/2006/10/25/automobiles/autospecial/25fleet.html

http://www.toyoland.com/prius/hybrid-police-cars.html

E92

colm_mcm wrote: »

not doubting your figures E92, but the i30 and the SX4 are two unusual cars to single out, is there any particular reason for quoting these not-too-common cars?

No other reason than they were the cars What Car? felt should be shortlisted for green awards;).

@JHMEG: it's already been shown to you that DI petrols are at worst no worse for NOx than IDI, and in the case of the MINI Cooper S, significantly better than some IDI cars out there.

What Car? gave the grand figure of 0 for PM for all the DI petrols too, and a couple of diesels surprisingly.

I'm therefore finished discussing this with you.

FearDark

A little off topic but i saw a yaris garda car in Limerick the other day and it was literally falling to pieces, there used be a punto garda car in Tipperary town up til 2 years ago and at the moment theres an opel combo garda van doing the rounds. Embarrasing if you ask me.

JHMEG

E92 wrote: »

I'm therefore finished discussing this with you.

We weren't discussing it. It's fact. Google. Peasant also mentions it here.

Euro 6 emissions have PM limits for DI petrol engines. There are no numbers for indirect as they don't produce any.

Here, for example: Under transient conditions DI engines produce about as much soot as a modern diesel engine, and hence to reach PM regulatory limits, a particulate filter may be required.

Zonda999

Someone earlier was saying how the gardai should have some performance cars for motorway patrol and the like.I know for a fact that the gardai have 5 skoda octavia vRS's.Theyre 06 or 07 to the best of my knowledge.I havnt seen them yet and i suspect its because theyre unmarked.iknow it because someone i know sells skoda an he heard it form the distributors.Has anyone seen them??

ninty9er

• Saab 9-3 Estate BioPower 200ps Auto for Traffic Corps
  • Top speed 219km/h,
  • 0-60 mph 8.7 seconds**
  • 197g/km*
  • Any fool can get the top speed and acceleration from an auto.

• Lexus GS450h for Traffic Corps
  • Top Speed 250km/h
  • 0-100km/h 5.9 seconds
  • 185g/km
  • As above for auto

• Mondeo 2.0 FFV Estate for general patrol use
  • Top speed 203 km/h
  • 0-60 mph 10 seconds**
  • 189g/km*

• S40 1.8F for general usage
  • Top speed 200 km/h
  • 0-100km/h 10.9 seconds
  • 177g/km*

• Toyota Yaris 1.4 D4-D 90 for city use
  • Top speed 175 km/h
  • 0-100 km/h 10.7 seconds
  • 119g/km

The above to be marked cars complimented by a range of unmarked vehicles.

* - Biofuel car, rated for unleaded usage
** - speed available in mph from manufacturer

Steve

ninty9er wrote: »

• Lexus GS450h for Traffic Corps
  • Top Speed 250km/h
  • 0-100km/h 5.9 seconds
  • 185g/km
  • As above for auto

Where do I sign up for traffic corps?.........:D

that car - wish I had the price of it.:pac:

pburns

Hmmm...one disadvantage with diesel I'd envisage might be the long time it takes for the engine to warm up sufficently. I can imagine Bodie & Doyle jumping into their Mondeo TDCI and revving the nuts off a cold engine.

Or maybe that only happens on TV:o

Seriously though, when I moved from petrol to diesel I noticed I had to takes things much easier, for much longer on my drive to work before the engine warmed up sufficently.

Ferris

+1

petrol is a lot cheaper than turbo's.

Matt Simis

I note everyone went down the environmental and cost saving route (mpg) which is fine and all, but Ive always felt a Police force should instill respect and authority. A Aigo/Yaris/Corsa does the complete opposite. They wear uniforms to so a level of professionalism and authority then get into a car favoured by pensioners.

And no, Im not suggesting black M5s as the state car, but something solid and dignified would be major boost to their morale and image. Can you imagine being the Garda driving near the rough neighbourhood with tyres burning and rocks being thrown about in a Yaris?

CharlieCroker

My personal choice would be a Skoda Octavia 2.0 Tdi Estate 140bhp DSG auto.

-Cheap to buy pre VAT and VRT
-Reliable (top of JD power surveys for years)
-Space in boot for equipment
-Rear space for people/prisoners
-Power and torque from 2.0 Turbo Diesel
-DSG gearbox for city driving without effecting the economy
-52 mpg combined

I admit they're not the most stylish or the most desirable but thats not the point of a Garda vehicle.

delly

Aside from type of cars, I think a change from the standard white to silver as in the UK might be good, giving a bit of a fresh looking image?

CharlieCroker

delly wrote: »

Aside from type of cars, I think a change from the standard white to silver as in the UK might be good, giving a bit of a fresh looking image?

I'd agree with that. The police in the UK did that beacause they wanted to recoup some money when the cars were sold on at auction after use.
They do look 100 times smarter but i cant see the Irish beancounters authorising the extra money to pay for the metallic.

Steve

delly wrote: »

Aside from type of cars, I think a change from the standard white to silver as in the UK might be good, giving a bit of a fresh looking image?

Isn't it ironic that most white cars (not vans) on the road are either squad cars or ricerockets....:D

Well the most noticeable ones anyway..

Beta Ray Bill

The Evo VII - IX are perfect for the Garda, so would the newer STi's

Reason:
Fast
4 doors
Boot
designed for the crappy roads we have here

Problem is:
they only run on octane 98
need a service ever 5000 miles
cost a fair few quid
and the biggest problem is that you would have every scumbag and knacker joining the Garda to drive one. And the existing 'LADS' would be rallying them around also

Evo's and Sti's attract the wrong kind of attention from both scumbags and Garda.

CharlieCroker

They had at least 1 Evo in dublin either last year or this as a motorway traffic car but they went through a couple of clutches so they sent it back.

Ferris

CharlieCroker wrote: »

They had at least 1 Evo in dublin either last year or this as a motorway traffic car but they went through a couple of clutches so they sent it back.

I wonder how that happened? :rolleyes:

Cops have always liked donuts I suppose:D

Beta Ray Bill

CharlieCroker wrote: »

They had at least 1 Evo in dublin either last year or this as a motorway traffic car but they went through a couple of clutches so they sent it back.

Clearly Driven by "One of the Lads" If you drive them hard the whole time they will tear through clutches!

Junior #8

Ok, so from what i can gather they drive the following as undercover cars.


Ford Mondeo
Toyota Avensis
Toyota Corolla
Opel Vectra
Opel Astra
Subaru Forrester

Do they plan on changing them too? Coz I wouldn't mind getting my hands on a chipped 1.8 Mondeo...it defo kept up with my tDI golf..


The new toyotas are giving trouble, so they should change them, Skoda is a good choice, maybe for the higher end they could go for the Octavia vRS...and at the lower maybe stick with the Mondeos. They look good.
VW is out of the question...as is Audi and Lexus, too expensive.
Honda has never come into the equation...The new civic would look deadly!!!

Who decides all these things anyway???

G Luxel

cars ive never seen in garda colours........

focus hatchback, skoda octavia/superb, golf, avensis hatchback, even the
last Primera and almera..

ninty9er

grahambo wrote: »

the biggest problem is that you would have every scumbag and knacker joining the Garda to drive one. And the existing 'LADS' would be rallying them around also

Not that it would completey stop the issue, but entire extended families have to pass a background check before someone gets accepted for Garda training.

Note I said background check, which includes but is not exclusively a criminal record search.

Zonda999

How come the gardai dont use vw's at all at all???In fact ive never once seen a garda car from the entire VAG group

CharlieCroker

Zonda999 wrote: »

How come the gardai dont use vw's at all at all???In fact ive never once seen a garda car from the entire VAG group

I've never seen a marked VW but they had a couple of Bora and Passat unmarked cars in the last couple of years

Zonda999

O ya they have unmarked VAGs alright.Maybe the gardai can only choose the marked cars from a specific list

S.I.R

hmm, seen volvo s40's, saab 95's and puntos, but meh, nothing that can keep up with a pug 106/saxo let alone a performance car.... Even a glanza could pull away from 99.9 % of the fleet...


give em something useful... But teach them how to drive correctly at high speeds first...

Beta Ray Bill

ninty9er wrote: »

Not that it would completey stop the issue, but entire extended families have to pass a background check before someone gets accepted for Garda training.

Note I said background check, which includes but is not exclusively a criminal record search.

True

But there are plenty of little knackers/scumbags out there with no Criminal Record or affiliation to a family member with a criminal record.

IE they are first generation Skangers within their family

ya know what I mean?

Also I only re-read that the Evo was used on the motorway?... again another poor decision by the Garda. there are faster more maintainable cars out there for motorway usage. IE Opel Vectra OPC?

horseydevine

Junior #8 wrote: »

Ok, so from what i can gather they drive the following as undercover cars.


Ford Mondeo
Toyota Avensis
Toyota Corolla
Opel Vectra
Opel Astra
Subaru Forrester

Do they plan on changing them too? Coz I wouldn't mind getting my hands on a chipped 1.8 Mondeo...it defo kept up with my tDI golf..


The new toyotas are giving trouble, so they should change them, Skoda is a good choice, maybe for the higher end they could go for the Octavia vRS...and at the lower maybe stick with the Mondeos. They look good.
VW is out of the question...as is Audi and Lexus, too expensive.
Honda has never come into the equation...The new civic would look deadly!!!

Who decides all these things anyway???

also seen a peugoet 306 on the m1...