Handicap Complaint

TheScript

Ok so im playing off 18 in my club. Handed in 3 cards when i joined andve me somehow they gave me this handicap. Par on the course is 72 and its very seldom that i play a round of 90. The thing that annoys me is that i handed in 3 cards scores ranging from 120,98 and 92. How can they give me a handicap of 18. Furthrmore my cousin plays off 21 and regularly scores better than me. Its the same story with my auld lad. I dont play in competitions- only 4 a year to keep the memebership going. What can i do to rectify my situation! Take lessons or have a go at the handicap committe in my club requesting a revised handicap??

copacetic

if it's very seldom you play a round of 90 then you are on the correct handicap at 18. Your handicap is supposed to indicated your potential best score, not your average.
If you handed in a card of 92 with 2 holes that your tripled the correct handicap is 18, so it sounds right to me. Besides very few clubs give higher than 18 to new members.

If you only play 4 comps a year, what does it matter?

Sandwich

18 is the correct handicap for you even if you cant play to it, although as explained above, is probably about right as your potential best score.
No healthy male should have a handicap greater than 18 unless he is handing in at least 10 cards per year that justify it - its just too open to banditry.
If you are only playing 3 or 4 qualifying comps a year, then you are not really playing enough to have a genuine handicap, or to expect the system, based on the cards you are returning, to reflect your playing standard.

TheScript

Ok points taken on board!

Golferx

I started playing golf and got a handicap of 20. I moved clubs, they gave me a handicap of 18. I wasn't happy, but accepted it. Then I realised it was a challenge and I was determined to lower it. I went to 19, then, through practise and effort have got it down to 13.

Use 18 as the benchmark. Nobody should need two shots on any hole, and get your handicap down.

N1977

Many clubs give lower handicaps than 18 to new members. It's not uncommon to be given 16 and I know of a situation when a club gave a new member of handicap of 14.

I have no problem with this. I was recently playing in a captains prize which was won by a 20 handicap golfer who shot 61 net (on a par 70 course) playing in difficult conditions.

Hobart

N1977 wrote: »

Many clubs give lower handicaps than 18 to new members. It's not uncommon to be given 16 and I know of a situation when a club gave a new member of handicap of 14.

I have no problem with this. I was recently playing in a captains prize which was won by a 20 handicap golfer who shot 61 net (on a par 70 course) playing in difficult conditions.

It's not an arbitrary process. As has been pointed out above, your handicap should reflect your best possible score on your home course. If you are given a handicap of 9, well then (in theory) 9 over should be your best possible score from day 1.

Giving a new member 2, 16, 22 as a handicap is no different than cutting you .7 after a good round, it reflects what you are capable off and is in no way related to your "newness" .

copacetic

N1977 wrote: »

Many clubs give lower handicaps than 18 to new members. It's not uncommon to be given 16 and I know of a situation when a club gave a new member of handicap of 14.

I have no problem with this. I was recently playing in a captains prize which was won by a 20 handicap golfer who shot 61 net (on a par 70 course) playing in difficult conditions.

of course they will give lower if required, the point above is that they seldom give higher.

I was off 13 when I joined citywest for a year, it was the correct handicap although gave me little chance of winning anything

Goodluck2me

I was given an 18 when i handed in my first 3 cards too, and its rare that any young man woiuld get any more, nor need any more. If you are in any way serious about your golf you should be trying to shoot less than 18over in any round, so its a good target. I have noticed a considerable improvement in my game since the start of the summer and from being determined to get lower than 18 it has helped.
Also if you only play 4x a year what odds?

Golferx

copacetic wrote: »

.............., it was the correct handicap although gave me little chance of winning anything

That's a complete contradiction.

copacetic

Golferx wrote: »

That's a complete contradiction.

no it ain't, it illustrates that a lot of people 'protect' their handicaps or flat out cheat them. It is extremely hard to win anything if off below 9 or off correct handicap imo. Any score over 40 indicates that the winners handicap was wrong to begin with imo.

fozz

It's a common misconception that people with higher handicaps win more comps.
I read some strong stats gathered all over the US to discredit that notion. Anyway, I play of 22 now and that is my opening handicap. I am struggling to get near the 32+ point mark off this but the I know if I were to play a lot if rounds that I would hit a good score once...so I would expect that h'cap to come down and rightly so. So in essence the system should balance out. Bear in mind that although I may hot a good 36+ score at some stage to get a cut, all the many other times I am down in the 20's and someone else is hitting better scores. That story of the 20 h'capper hitting a net 9 under is a joke though and there's something wildly wrong there. That would be akin to me hitting a net 13 over which is beyond my wildest dreams!

ShriekingSheet

copacetic wrote: »

Any score over 40 indicates that the winners handicap was wrong to begin with imo.

I disagree with this one point.

Absolutely agree that there's a wealth of h'cap protectors but I think these are in the minority in most clubs.

I think there's plenty of winners out there who have done something in the run up to the competition to notch themselves up a level. I'm talking about taking a lesson or spending a bit of time chipping and putting after work or even just not going on the p1ss the night before for a change!

Obviously, higher h'caps may have to do less to go from shooting 90 to 85 - it could even be to buy a new driver and the confidence that may bring.


My point is that many winners will have put a little extra effort into their golf in the run up to the day and if that effort results in an improved performance and a win then that's what sport is about.

I wouldn't say they had a wrong h'cap. But the beauty of golf is that their h'cap then changes, the goal posts are moved, and if they want to win again they need to improve that bit further...


As a 6 h'cap, I know what I need to do to compete in terms of regular practice etc. I also know that to beat me, a 20 h'cap has to work at his game also. My handicap means I need to work pretty hard - but it also says that I have a fair idea how to work at it. His h'cap means less effort is needed to shoot 40pts, but chances are he doesn't really know how to apply that effort. Whether I work my hole off or he finds time in his week to practice and learns to practice well, either guy is a worthy winner IMO.

In response to the OP, by this logic, playing 4 comps a year constitutes very little effort and as such doesn't warrant a win off any h'cap. I don't think raising your h'cap until you can win 1/4 comps a year is valid.

PhilipMarlowe

I don't quite agree with the 40+ comment either, though the most I have ever scored in competition is 41. I have been 6 under my handicap in practice (7 under the SSS).

Before I had a handicap, I used to play on a par 70 course and my best was 81, often shot 82-85... then one day shot 75 and probably my next best there subsequently was 79 so it is very possible to have a 'day in the sun' round and go low. Then again, you have guys posting here about having a 20 handicap and shooting 5 over gross or something which is beyond crazy.

ShriekingSheet

Licksy wrote: »

Then again, you have guys posting here about having a 20 handicap and shooting 5 over gross or something which is beyond crazy.

Yeah like you'll always have that when new guys join a club, get bitten by the bug, play loads of social/practice rounds and then blitz a competition but it's just the way things are.

I think the most frustrating issue, which was Cop's central point, is guys intentionally going out to get .1s in the run up to a big day or guys purposely scratching the last couple of holes in a lesser competition because they want to save their h'cap to win something big.

Thankfully, new technology such as Golfnet is going some way to reducing these instances but the fact is all the rules and technology in the world will not stop those who are intent on cheating. In a way it's a great part of the game - there's no referee with a whistle - it's up to players themselves to observe the rules or not.

Golferx

Licksy wrote: »

............Then again, you have guys posting here about having a 20 handicap and shooting 5 over gross or something which is beyond crazy.

In fairness, there was one chap, only, who posted that.

For me, my best ever score was 46 points, playing off 15. I played the round of my life. 4 birdies and seven pars. I won by 5 points.
It got me cut a few shots but I didn't care. I've shot 41, off 13 (14 pars) and a few 40's but nothing close to that round of my life.

I feel that one should play to one's handicap approx one round in 4, or 5. Golf is a game of honour, and once I play by the rules, I'm happy. It doesn't bother me to see bandits. Their "victories" are hollow.

Mister Sifter

Golferx wrote: »

In fairness, there was one chap, only, who posted that.

For me, my best ever score was 46 points, playing off 15. I played the round of my life. 4 birdies and seven pars. I won by 5 points.
It got me cut a few shots but I didn't care. I've shot 41, off 13 (14 pars) and a few 40's but nothing close to that round of my life.

I feel that one should play to one's handicap approx one round in 4, or 5. Golf is a game of honour, and once I play by the rules, I'm happy. It doesn't bother me to see bandits. Their "victories" are hollow.

Maybe, but in at least two of the other three rounds they should also be hitting the buffer zone.

Mr. Larson

I filled in three cards also to get my handicap - these three cards were high 90's with maybe one early 100's. I was given 18 and had no complaints at the time - being honest, I felt it was quite generous. Would have expected about 14. Makes more sense and is more fair to give you a low handicap and work your way up as opposed to the other way around.

I understood, at the time that it would be a real challenge to play to 18 but I was confident that over time, as I practiced and got used to competitive play it would come down. It took me over a year to get cut in any way [from 18] but what tends to happen then is you come down quickly with some pretty good scores.

Back in the day, way back when and all that - people used to get given 10, 14, handicaps like that. They seem to be a bit generous these days. If you can shoot in the low 90's for your three cards or get within an asses roar of 80's you should be given low teens (maybe 14 at most) in my opinion. The assumption at the time of dishing that out would be that you're just starting out and you're definitely going to improve a lot once you play more regularly. So low 90's could be mid to low 80's within a year.

ShriekingSheet

Jabberwocky wrote: »

you should be given low teens (maybe 14 at most) in my opinion. The assumption at the time of dishing that out would be that you're just starting out and you're definitely going to improve a lot once you play more regularly. So low 90's could be mid to low 80's within a year.

How can you say a new golfer is definitely going to improve to a low/mid teen standard? Especially when they're are thousands of guys in ireland playing for 5 or 10 years who have never gotten lower than 18?

18 h'caps are not given out out of generosity. It's so as not to discourage the majority of people who take up the game and don't immediately attain a low-teen standard of golf.

The ones who do rapidly improve, do so out of enthusiasm for the game and regular play or practice. For their efforts they are rewarded as they pick up a couple of prizes en route to a lower h'cap. Fair play to them I say.

Having all new golfers slogging it out with .1 every round of a 14 h'cap is not sensible IMO.

After a year off 18 before you won and got cut I certainly wouldn't deny you your rewards mate.

Mr. Larson

ShriekingSheet wrote: »

How can you say a new golfer is definitely going to improve to a low/mid teen standard? Especially when they're are thousands of guys in ireland playing for 5 or 10 years who have never gotten lower than 18?

I didn't mean to make an assumption that everyone is capable of getting to low/mid teen standard. Rather I was thinking that someone who would be capable of shooting mid 90's when starting out (at the hand in three cards stage), you would expect that they would be capable of getting below 18 with a bit of practice and experience. I'd assume that golfers who have never gotten lower than 18 wouldn't have been capable of handing in cards for their handicap of mid 90's when starting out. So if they handed in three cards all 100+ then you would handicap them accordingly... i.e. 18.

Mr. Larson

Actually, just a point on the OP - I think using Stroke amounts in all of this could potentially be misleading. You'd really need to see the scorecard to analyse it properly and make a call about the correctness (or not) of the 18.

I mean the OP's 92 could have involved a good number of par's and one or 2 disasters. Theoretically, it could have still been a good Stableford score off 18 but 2 or 3 really bad holes could have pushed the gross up a lot.

ShriekingSheet

Jabberwocky wrote: »

Actually, just a point on the OP - I think using Stroke amounts in all of this could potentially be misleading. You'd really need to see the scorecard to analyse it properly and make a call about the correctness (or not) of the 18.

I mean the OP's 92 could have involved a good number of par's and one or 2 disasters. Theoretically, it could have still been a good Stableford score off 18 but 2 or 3 really bad holes could have pushed the gross up a lot.

When calculating h'cap all scores worse than a double bogey are reduced to a double bogey.

This goes for new h'caps (3 cards) and current h'cap adjustments in strokeplay

Mr. Larson

Interesting - you learn something new every day.

slingerz

its my second year playing golf and i'm playing off 20.5 and i never seem to be anywhere near winning anything. Guys i've played with, low handicappers all say i should be a lot lower than 21 from the way i hit the ball i just dont understand why i cant score good

Mr. Larson

slingerz wrote: »

Guys i've played with, low handicappers all say i should be a lot lower than 21 from the way i hit the ball i just dont understand why i cant score good

Sounds very familiar... - if you're anything like me it's all to do with the short game. If I had a penny for everytime that was said to me...If you hit the ball well, I'd be guessing you're capable of getting there or thereabouts on most holes (within about 20 yards of the Green In Regulation). Seems simplistic but if you can manage to get even a handful of up and downs per round then you will be in business.

I know it's repeated ad nauseum on here but chipping and putting really is where it's at if you're a decent striker of the ball and up in the 20's. Do you ever practice your short game? Spend some time trying out different techniques chipping with a load of balls for a few hours and you should see some progress.

slingerz

Jabberwocky wrote: »

Sounds very familiar... - if you're anything like me it's all to do with the short game. If I had a penny for everytime that was said to me...If you hit the ball well, I'd be guessing you're capable of getting there or thereabouts on most holes (within about 20 yards of the Green In Regulation). Seems simplistic but if you can manage to get even a handful of up and downs per round then you will be in business.

I know it's repeated ad nauseum on here but chipping and putting really is where it's at if you're a decent striker of the ball and up in the 20's. Do you ever practice your short game? Spend some time trying out different techniques chipping with a load of balls for a few hours and you should see some progress.

I either get to the green in regulation(par 5 or the occassional par 4) sometimes its a misclub and I either go past the green or come up short or my direction is to the left/right.

I never really practice my short game to be honest i dont know how to or even where to start!

Mr. Larson

It's easy - get a load of balls and try getting up and down from different scenarios, differing lies and distances until you're comfortable with a club and technique. If you're stuck for time, think about what shot/chip you tend to face most often and just practice that one. Experiment with different techniques and settle on one that works for you.

You should find yourself more confident over these chips when faced with them on the course having practiced it. I decided to just take an 8 iron and use a putting stroke for all my chips a while back. Basically I just got fed up of duffing my chips and I have to say it worked. Regarding where to do it, surely there is somewhere nearby where you can practice?

There has been plenty of advice, books, recommendations etc. on here about putting also if you can dig that out.

slingerz

Jabberwocky wrote: »

It's easy - get a load of balls and try getting up and down from different scenarios, differing lies and distances until you're comfortable with a club and technique. If you're stuck for time, think about what shot/chip you tend to face most often and just practice that one. Experiment with different techniques and settle on one that works for you.

You should find yourself more confident over these chips when faced with them on the course having practiced it. I decided to just take an 8 iron and use a putting stroke for all my chips a while back. Basically I just got fed up of duffing my chips and I have to say it worked. Regarding where to do it, surely there is somewhere nearby where you can practice?

There has been plenty of advice, books, recommendations etc. on here about putting also if you can dig that out.

We have a practice hole at my course but there aint a real fairway type area to chip from it seems more akin to rough really!! do you think it'd be possible to try this some eveinng around the course using one of the holes?

Mr. Larson

slingerz wrote: »

do you think it'd be possible to try this some eveinng around the course using one of the holes?

Well most courses would discourage practicing or playing several balls on a given hole but that's what I would do. If anyone got onto me about it my point would be "sort out the practice area and I wouldn't need to.". Are there any ranges with short game practice areas near you? Ideally you would do it somewhere like that.

slingerz

Jabberwocky wrote: »

Well most courses would discourage practicing or playing several balls on a given hole but that's what I would do. If anyone got onto me about it my point would be "sort out the practice area and I wouldn't need to.". Are there any ranges with short game practice areas near you? Ideally you would do it somewhere like that.

unfortunately there aint any ranges like that near me. I think a lot of my problem is committing to the shot or else trying the wrong type of shots. i wonder if i used an 8 to run some shots would they be better than a pitch. i often find myself stopping my downswing too for fear of hitting the ball too far which is a big part of my problem. My regular playing partners think i should be off about 14 or 15 if I got going at all i practice and play regularly like

milltown

slingerz wrote: »

unfortunately there aint any ranges like that near me. I think a lot of my problem is committing to the shot or else trying the wrong type of shots. i wonder if i used an 8 to run some shots would they be better than a pitch. i often find myself stopping my downswing too for fear of hitting the ball too far which is a big part of my problem. My regular playing partners think i should be off about 14 or 15 if I got going at all i practice and play regularly like

I had similar trouble with my pitching. What I've been doing lately, and it seems to be working so far, is limiting my backswing, as little as a foot or so if necessary, and concentrating on hitting through the ball. It seems that having such a short backswing forces me to accelerate through the ball to get it moving and stops me quitting on the shot before the ball is hit. Another advantage seems to be, as the speed is coming from my hands, and little or none from clubhead momentum, it keeps my hands ahead of the clubhead. Since making this change I haven't taken more than one shot to get out of a bunker either, which I really struggled with before. (There! I've really put the mockers on myself now)

Plus 10

I agree that the maximum handicap a starter should get is 18. When I started golf myself (wasn't very good!!) - I handed 3 cards over 100 - got a handicap of 24.

Played a lot the first year and what do you know one day it really clicks I get 46 points in a competition. 18 should be the max - admitedly if you don't improve and your real handicap is say 22+ it will take a lot of 0.1's to get to this.

slingerz

milltown wrote: »

I had similar trouble with my pitching. What I've been doing lately, and it seems to be working so far, is limiting my backswing, as little as a foot or so if necessary, and concentrating on hitting through the ball. It seems that having such a short backswing forces me to accelerate through the ball to get it moving and stops me quitting on the shot before the ball is hit. Another advantage seems to be, as the speed is coming from my hands, and little or none from clubhead momentum, it keeps my hands ahead of the clubhead. Since making this change I haven't taken more than one shot to get out of a bunker either, which I really struggled with before. (There! I've really put the mockers on myself now)

that sounds like a good idea to me. i dont really have much of a problem with bunkers i was brainwashed one evening in how to get out of them so i can do it regularly enough now!