Cash/Tournaments. Play just one or both?

H8GHOTI

Just came across an article on this (link: http://www.pokerplayermagazine.co.uk/pokertips/gettingstarted/5583/team_talk.html) and was wondering is this the general feeling with most of ye? Does anyone on here split their time (successfully) between both?

Cash or tourney?
When it comes to choosing between cash games and tournaments, focus 100% on whatever you’re best at

By Mark Stuart
May 2008


Here at PokerPlayer we get quite a lot of emails from inexperienced players asking about the differences between tournaments and cash games. And we often give the same well-trodden answer about how in cash games the blinds don’t increase, the stacks are usually deep, and each chip is worth an actual monetary value rather than a tournament value. But what we don’t touch on is why you’d choose to play one format over another or which suits each individual best.
Until now, that is. Because recently I got thinking about the two very different formats of poker and why I play one pretty well (tournaments, where I’ve probably won close to $35,000 in MTTs over the past two years) and one pretty bad (cash games where I’ve probably lost close to $35,000 in the… no, I’m only joking, but you get the picture).
I would love to be able to play cash games well and build my bankroll as quick as Brian ‘sbrugby’ Townsend, but it ain’t going to happen. To be honest a big part of it must come down to the fact I’ve been schooled in tournaments – sit-and-gos, MTTs – and have become so used to the tournament formula that translating the same strategies and thought processes to cash games just doesn’t work.
Don’t get me wrong I’m competent and am aware of the basic and advanced strategies in cash games (and I’ve had some great sessions both online and live) but on the whole I just don’t get them.
For some reason I get myself in horrible situations where half my money is in the pot and I have to fold, but I don’t, and then I lose a buy-in. Online in particular I somehow play far too loose, too aggressive, don’t give people credit for good hands, and am constantly convinced people are bluffing me.
And I don’t have the same concerns that I get in tournaments about losing my money or chips – I actually give more respect to my tourney chips than I do my real cash, which is just bizarre whichever way you look at it.


One-track mind
Anyway, I came to the conclusion that cash games aren’t for me, that I should stick to what I do best – tournaments. And that’s the message I’m going to impart to you – find the format you prefer, or are making the most money at (or losing least at), and really attack it, study it and look to improve your game. Because I’ve found the constant switching between game types is a distraction from the main goal of improving, winning and making money.
If you find you’re regularly going deep in tourneys, play more. Or if you never seem to make the money in MTTs or STTs but regularly have winning cash sessions, channel all your efforts into that. You’ll start to see the difference in no time. And when you feel like you’re a consistent winner and strong player at one, you can always look to convert to the other format at a later date, whether that be six months, a year or a decade.
The games are never going to go away and you’ll be a much more confident and competent player going into the other game if you’re already winning at one.
So that’s what I’m doing from now on. Cash games are dead to me. I’m plugging my leak. I’m also going to ignore the cash game players who dismiss tournaments as ‘donkaments’ and claim that cash poker is ‘real’ poker. Both formats warrant the same level of respect but for very different reasons.
Tournaments require strong mathematical and observational skills, coupled with aggression and patience, and provide a real buzz when you go deep. They’re for making a big score, while cash games are for regular earnings. (Although try telling Sorel Mizzi and Annette Obrestad that you can’t grind out a successful living in online MTTs.)
Sure, they can also be frustrating and you might lose 20 in a row on a bunch of coin-flips and bad beats, but it only takes one big win to propel you to fame and fortune. So put this magazine down, have a look at Poker Tracker or your spreadsheets, or even just go off gut instinct, and choose your poker path for the next 12 months. You’ll thank me at the end of the year.

H8GHOTI

lol donkaments

^^^^ Hopefully the first & last time this is posted in this thread.

Wreck

Cash for making money, tournaments for fun/to unwind. If you understand all the concepts involved in playing cash you only really need to learn how to deal with being shortstacked relative to the blinds to also play in tournaments.

Also, lol donkaments

CHD

You can't win bracelets in cash games.

Shivverz

Put it this way, I'd prefer be a winning tournament player than a winning cashgame player. I'd also prefer to be a losing tournament player than a losing cashgame player

ionapaul

I play live tournaments, live cash, online cash, and to a lesser extent online STTs and MTTS and I'd have to say it can be possible to play both cash and tournaments and be relatively successful in both. I think my hourly rate in cash games is a lot higher than my hourly rate in tournaments (despite being up x2 as much in live tournaments than live cash so far this year, as I have only played about 100 hours live cash in total in 2008), but at the levels I play (€1 / €2 PLH live and $.50 / $1 6-max NLH online) cash is more formulaic and 'boring' for a nit like me compared to the play in the €100+ buy-in tournaments I take part in, so I enjoy live tournaments more than live cash. While in Australia I went a full 9 months playing live cash most days and no live tournaments and didn't suffer any withdrawal symptoms Online I'd defo rather multi-table cash than MTTs, prob play cash 80% of the time online, funny that - haven't had any real success with online STTs or MTTs it must be said.

For a lot of players, cash really has to be the way to go to maximise their potential hourly winrate IMHO - if I was relying on poker to pay the bills that's where all my focus would be on.

Are some people more suited for cash over tournaments and vice versa because of their personalities / attitudes to risk / etc...? This is something I'd like to think about more. In any given month, I might go a through a period of really wanting to play live tournaments, to concentrating on online cash (like at the moment), to playing 3 or 4 sessions of live cash during a 10-day period, to back to tournaments. Anyone else like this?

cardshark202

Shivverz wrote: »

winning tournament player

wat? lol donkaments imo

Lao Lao

I've only been playing poker seriously for just under a year. Before that, the only poker I played was drunken home games where after about 6 beers it became dealers choice and all 3's 6's one eyed K's and red J's were wild!!!

However, since last Sept, I have really tried to improve my game by reading books, playing proper games, learning from watching other people play, reading a lot on forums like here and in mags and other internet sites

I started off with tournaments (as I think most do) and very slowly graduated to cash games. At the minute, I play MTT live and online, cash live and online and SnG's online, a jack of all trades.

So far I've have decent enough success in both cash and tourney, however, my tourney profit is 3 times that of my cash profit.

I think that this is for a few reasons

1) I started with tourney's and have more experience in them

2) I still need to work at my cash game. I know the basics and even some of the more advanced principles/theories but I still have major leaks. I often play too tight (as it's real money that I'm playing with ) or I play way too loose (I convince myself, it's not money, the chips are just a tool to win )

3) My cash game selection has been bad at times. I've often sat down to a 1/2 PLHE cash game with players that I know are better / more experienced then me and I convince myself that I can compete with them. Sometimes it goes ok, but there are other times when it goes horribly wrong!

I think that if you are looking to make a regular income out of it, then cash is the only way to do it, but also that cash requires a lot more discipline.

My plan for the forseeable future will be

Live
----
Concentrate more on tourney's while still jumping into a cash game whenever I think I see value (or am on tilt after busting out of a tourney) and concentrate on reading / learning more about / improving my cash game

Online

---

Continue to mix it up between MTT / SnG's and Cash to grind the BR in the right direction!

newbie2

ONLINE

I played tournaments solely for 12 months from July 1st 2007 to July 1st 2008. I've now migrated to cash games and will play these solely for 12 months. I was relatively succesfull playing SNg's and Mtt's and won about €26,000 in prizes. This was all done part time as I have a well paid government job to keep me ticking over. Starting out playing cash was pretty difficult - but i think i've copped on to it now. I'd like to do better playing cash but I don't hold out much hope. I'll post up in just over 11 months and let you know how I get on.

IMO you are better off focusing on the one type of game to become succesful at it. I supose if i become successful at cash too, then i'll be unstoppable....... Unstoppable

dannydiamond

A good POKER PLAYER should be able to turn their hand to either.

Kamaldihnio

Play both. If you are better at tournaments, play bigger tournaments, and if you are better at cash, play higher blinds and vice versa.

Ava Grace

I prefer tournaments tbh, cash games are a bit cut throat for me, you can't wait out the bad beats, I play the crap out of cards in a cash game that I would normally throw away in a tournament, if you have the patience to weather out the storm and wait for a good run in a tournament you'll do well, the same tactic would destroy you in a cash game.. which makes me think that cash games are probably more skilful.

Donkament LMAO, Jesus someone seriously needs to censor that guy's "witty" turn of phrase :eek:

Macspower

CHD wrote: »

You can't win bracelets in cash games.

No but you can buy them....

dannydiamond

CHD wrote: »

You can't win bracelets in cash games.

**** the bracelet,show me the money baby.

Hectorjelly

I really hate all when people go on about Bracelets like they were some mystical GAA medal that their grandfather always went on about. Face it, 3 years ago you had never heard of the world series, (and you were probably better off)

SetOverSet

Cash games FTW! I find tournaments utterly soul destroying tbh. Grinding it out for four hours only to go out on the bubble makes me sad

opr

Hectorjelly wrote: »

I really hate all when people go on about Bracelets like they were some mystical GAA medal that their grandfather always went on about. Face it, 3 years ago you had never heard of the world series, (and you were probably better off)

I don't think successful cash game players in the main care could actually care less themselves if they had one or not.

If you play poker for a living your family and friends don't read 2+2 etc so they don't know your one of the top people in your field of work. I think winning a bracelet gains this respect from non poker people. From reading some of the higher stakes players reasons on wanting to win one so bad its to do with acceptance within their social circles for what they do as a profession.

Opr

SetOverSet

opr wrote: »

I don't think successful cash game players in the main care could actually care less themselves if they had one or not.

QFT

CHD

Hectorjelly wrote: »

I really hate all when people go on about Bracelets like they were some mystical GAA medal that their grandfather always went on about. Face it, 3 years ago you had never heard of the world series, (and you were probably better off)

Broken dreams....

Decod

opr wrote: »

I don't think successful cash game players in the main care could actually care less themselves if they had one or not.

Meh. I know some very successful online high stakes cash players who play quite a few live tournaments despite (a) not appearing to enjoy them very much and (b) not being very good at them. My assumption is that most/all of them play them only for the shot at the prestige a win would bestow that a life of winning at 300/600 will never bring. Two guys, a Scot and a Dutchy, openly admitted as much.

Live tournaments, whether you like it or not, are the Majors of our sport.

Online tournaments, on the other hand, well, you'd have to be a total masochist to play more than the occasional one to blow off steam. If you're a good online player looking to make a decent steady living from your talent, online cash is the only sensible answer.

Live cash is even more boring than online tournaments.

cooker3

Give money over a bracelet any day of the week. I honestly couldn't care less whether my friends or family think I am successful or not.