routine/programme tips

k974

Hows it going just wondering if you could have a look at this and if possible spare couple mins of your time to make some changes, i made good progress for the first six months however seem to have reached a plateau need someone that knows what there talking about to make changes to my routine to i can start making progress again.


The bench press in particular cant seem to ever get past 75kg, altho i can do up to 80kg on the pec dec machine mates who can bench approx 100kg cant reach that on the pec dec machine need to work on bench and get some tips on that

squat is low however i've had 6 ops on legs in 3 years and its hendered my progress on that and need to take it easy on it at times and sometime just cant do it at all


was thinking of going to one of those 5x5 programmes with squat bench and deadlift but unsure any recommendations to change things things around and tips on the bench would be great. hate leaving the gym thinking you havent done enough would get the feeling with that programme altho i know overtraining is just as bad Thanks

I'm 6ft 1'' and 103kg at the moment bit of fat but not a whole pile have been up to 106kg and down to 95 in the past 12months. sory work in kilos now as live in overseas. i

Diet is loads of fruit & veg, steak and chicken, protein shake in morning and after gym, toast and eggs for breakfast, its basically good never going to be one to get obsessed bout it but i eat plenty and have the basic grasp of what to be eating and dont eat or drink ****e never ever ear sweets coke etc etc but still bit too fond of the pints and kebabs etc but try to keep it some way in check

monday
bench press 3x8 (70/75kg cant seem to get past 75kg for years)
pec dec machine 3 x8 (75kg)
inclinde db press 3x 8 (30kg db's)
triceps push downs on cable machine 3 x 8 75kg
dips 3 x8 or tricpes extensions 32.5kg dumbells held with both hands


Wednesday
seated row 3 x8 (80kg)
pull down 3 x8 (75kg)
dead lift 3 x 8 (70-80kg)
biceps ez bar curls 3 x8 ez bar with 35kg-40kg on it
incline biceps curls 3 x 8 (17.5kg or 20kg dumbells)

Friday
squat 3 x8 80kg (6 knees ops last 3 yrs making slow progress with squats)
milatry press 3 x 8 (ez bar with 40kg)
calve extensions 3 x 8
dumb bell shoulder press 3 x8 (27.5kg/30kg dumbells)
raise arms straight in front with dumbe bells 3 x 8 (12.5kg dumbells)

Cardio
football trainin on thursday
go for a run on tuesday
and either run or play match on sat/sun

Thanks


any tips be welcome, as i said its more of a hobby/something to do in the evening for me but might as well be doing the right thing if i'm going to be going

Casshern88

k974 wrote: »

( cant seem to get past 75kg for years)

Does that mean you've been doing more or less the same program for years??? If so that's most likely your problem. Do something different drop benching completely for 6 weeks like ding heavy D/B benching.

Or do some deloading on your bench (http://stronglifts.com/overcoming-stalling-using-deloads/)

If you have never doe a 5x5 type program before and providing you eat everything in sight yes you will make good gains on it. Check out starting strength or stronglifts.

I don’t know what the best advice is on your injured leg, but obviously ensure you have right technique and maybe deload also.

k974

Casshern88 wrote: »

Does that mean you've been doing more or less the same program for years??? If so that's most likely your problem. Do something different drop benching completely for 6 weeks like ding heavy D/B benching.

Or do some deloading on your bench (http://stronglifts.com/overcoming-stalling-using-deloads/)

If you have never doe a 5x5 type program before and providing you eat everything in sight yes you will make good gains on it. Check out starting strength or stronglifts.

I don’t know what the best advice is on your injured leg, but obviously ensure you have right technique and maybe deload also.

not the same programme changed around programmes but have never really benched more than 75-8kg despite making big gains else where.

the leg is the way it is i cant do many squats that obviously hinders me but there nothing i can do about it. i might give the 5x5 a go alright

thanks for the tips anyone else have anything to say in my programme?

aye

would you have someone to spot you if you did negatives on your chest?
or you could try drop sets for you bench?

i'd drop the pec dec machine, as it rotates the shoulder, and do cable crossovers, or dumbbell flies.

would you change the pull down for a pull up?
does your knee hinder your deadlift progress also?
i'd add in some shrugs on wed just to hit your traps if you have the time.


shoulders:
milatry press 3 x 8 (ez bar with 40kg)
dumb bell shoulder press 3 x8 (27.5kg/30kg dumbells)
raise arms straight in front with dumbe bells 3 x 8 (12.5kg dumbells) - this is a frontal raise

you're hitting the anterior and medial deltiods alot but not the posterior, i'd add in a reverse fly there just to balance it out.

Al_Fernz

Casshern88 wrote: »

If you have never doe a 5x5 type program before and providing you eat everything in sight yes you will make good gains on it.

You don't need to eat like a pig to get stong. OP you sound like you're on the right track diet wise so I would tend to ignore this advice.

OP if you are interested in a 5x5 program I would recommend you have a look in the fitness logs section. A good few posters (myself included) have detailed their experiences doing 5x5 work on the "Big 3".

My top tip would be not to max yourself out in terms of warmup sets. IMO you should not exceed 8 reps in your warm-ups. For example your bench if you want to bench 80kgs 5x5 I would do this:

60kg 1x5-8
70kg 1x5
75kg 1x3
80kg 5x5

Also make sure that you have achievable goals and timeframes set in your head. Don't go hell for leather and try to smash PBs the first week. For example - imagine you want to get 85kgs 5x5 on the bench in 4 weeks. You should do:

Week 1 - 77.5kgs 5x5
Week 2 - 80kgs 5x5
Week 3 - 82.5kgs 5x5
Week 4 - 85kgs 5x5

The same applies to squatting and benching.

I would make the following changes to your rountine.

Do your main lift first. So Monday is bench, Wednesday is DL and Friday is Squat. I would also recommend re-jigging your leg/shoulder day to include more leg work. I understand that you may have issues with your legs - but it may also be a case where your squat is being brought down by your lack of assistance work in that area. I would look at including 2 from the following for 3-4 sets and 8-12 reps:

Stiff Legs DLs
Romanian DLs
Leg Curls
Leg Press
Bulgarian Split Squats
Lunges (either front or reverse)

Anyways I hope that helps.:)

03mcgs0

Cheers Al Fernz that’s a helpful plan.

I have experienced the same problems as K974. I’m 6 foot, 75 kilo, pretty lean and train regularly.

The bench is always something I struggled with. Although I haven’t really gone for it lately I’d say I can get out 85 kilo, 90 kilo at a push. I train alone (I prefer it, cause of times and stuff) so I really need to get myself up for a heavy lift. Honestly and this might sound like a joke but I blame it on having long skinny arms and put it down to this.

Dead lifting I can get out 120 and shoulder press 30 kilo dumbbells, both of which I’m not too worried about….

Transform

emmm slight problem if your deadlifting what your benching.

Your very very weak for your weight also - 105kg you should be benching well over
100kg and doing the same with deadlift. So you can't squat well yet you do more sets of work for your biceps than you do for your legs - something is a miss.

Your program is the usual 3 day split that never will get great results so mix it up more, drop the front raises (waste of time really, should be doing rotator cuff work, quite likely the weak link in your BP).

Overall, your bench is not improving because your using a crappy program, no progress on your squat(pick other leg exercsies), deadlift and no proper work on shoulder rotators/stabilizers and no chin ups.

Keep doing what you have always done and you will get what you have always gotten.

kevpants

Transform wrote: »

emmm slight problem if your deadlifting what your benching.

Your very very weak for your weight also - 105kg you should be benching well over
100kg and doing the same with deadlift. So you can't squat well yet you do more sets of work for your biceps than you do for your legs - something is a miss.

In fairness he's repping the 75kg eight times it's not his 1RM. I don't think he deserves 2 very's, he seems motivated. Agree with the rest of your post though.

Quite simple, drop the crap like Pec Dec and front raises and look up a new program. Starting Stregth seems to be the tour de force these days around here.

Transform

Pound for pound its still very very weak

JayRoc

Transform wrote: »

mix it up more, drop the front raises (waste of time really, should be doing rotator cuff work, quite likely the weak link in your BP).

- Constructive advice.

Transform wrote: »

Your very very weak for your weight also - 105kg you should be benching well over
100kg and doing the same with deadlift.

Transform wrote: »

Pound for pound its still very very weak

- Not constructive advice.
Just something that might make the person who posted it come across as a bit of an arrogrant tosser, actually.
Never heard of the saying "If you can't say anything nice....."?

k974

i train on my own so i dont have a spotter either. ya 75kg is light for my weight but i've never been able do more than 75-80kg for 3 sets of 8. with the squat before the last leg operation i now have very very bad arthitis i was squatting 120-140kg now theres days i cant manage the bar alon. the squat is really out of my programme there'll be time i can manage times i cant but i cant really include it in a programme this is going to be a problem obviously as it is on one the main one i need to figure a way around it. the dead lift used to be well over 100kg too prior to the injury and operation.


as i said i've come along in other areas while the bench hasnt improved. squat and dead lift aside i was doing 50% less before i started in everything except with the bench which has always been 75-80kg even 3 years ago when i was 90kg.

i do 2 biceps excersises a week i'm not one to stand in front of the mirror doing them all day long i understand they are isolated excersises and get worked doing compound excersises.

i'd love to be able do more leg work my left leg is like a pencil compared to my right but there are days when i do squats, extensions curls etc and i cant get out of bed the next day with the knee. it limits me and i know this i cant really have an ideal programme but trying to get the best programme i can in the circumstances.

thanks for all the advice

g'em

Transform straight talking is one thing, sleighting someone's ability and making a public show of them is something else. You have a wealth of experience and advice in that head of yours, and a lot of people benefit when it's shared.

JayRoc, I've heard of that saying. I've also heard of "two wrongs don't make a right". Go drink some vanilla green tea. Seriously, it helps.

kevpants

Despite what some posters would have you believe things aren't that bad. If you can rep 75kg 8 times your 1 rep max is probably in the 90's. Your weight is just over 100 so you aren't a million miles from a bodyweight bench. There are dozen of people on this forum whose goal that is so you should be prouad of yourself in the face of what seems like a pretty debilitating injury, many would use it as an excuse.

I don't know what to say about the leg situation, advice from a doc might be in order, no one here can advise on your individual situation so check it's ok for you to be working them at this point. I know if you are squatting with bad form you could be hurting your knees so make sure you're using correct technique. Leg curls are the devils work, try lunges instead. To work on your hamstrings and ar5e look up Romanian Deadlifts.

Al_Fernz

kevpants wrote: »

Leg curls are the devils work

Why do you say this?

kevpants

Al_Fernz wrote: »

Why do you say this?

I always found them less than useless??? You?

Leg extensions the same, plus I don't think they're easy on the knee if he has problems there (open to correction though)

Would you not agree a lunge or deadlift like movement would be better for a fella trying to bring up his underdeveloped lower body?

Al_Fernz

kevpants wrote: »

I always found them less than useless??? You?

Leg extensions the same, plus I don't think they're easy on the knee if he has problems there (open to correction though)

Would you not agree a lunge or deadlift like movement would be better for a fella trying to bring up his underdeveloped lower body?

Yeah I pretty much thought the same too - an unnecessary isolation exercise.

However, I used to have muscle imbalances and somebody recommend I work them into my routine as an assistance exercise. IMO they helped me correct this and the increased hamstring development also helped my squat and deadlift technique.

This was about 6 months ago. I don't do them anymore because I do stiff leg DLs and reverse hypers for this area:cool:. I'm not trying to say they are better than a DL or Lunge variation. However, I think its a bit harsh to classify them as the anti-christ and wouldn't dismiss them as an exercise to include as part of a well-balanced routine.

Muscle imbalances between quads and hams are so common. Now think how much times do you hear about people injurying their hams over their quads. We live in a quad dominant world -thats why I wouldn't totally dismiss leg curls. Now leg extensions on the other hand.......:mad:

Dirk_Diggler

Cannot see what Transform has done 'wrong' here. He's just telling it how it is. Has happened to me before and it works as an incentive to improve. Some people need to know that they got to push that little bit harder.

g'em

You're entitled to your opinion, but here isn't the right place for it. Can we stay on-topic please?

Transform

Kick up the ass taken - must be the coffee from the bald barista i got the other day, double espressos having that effect

The original posted needs to look into making sure they are taking 4-10g fish oils per day, glucosamine/chondroitin, MSM for his joints and that would possibly help.

However, even with more leg work it does not solve the benching problem per say.

More rotator cuff work, scap retractionn ,chins, changing up the reps and sets and use a semi-supinated grip when doing dumbbell benching will help also.

Just basically focus on getting stronger on all the above and the bench will improve.

Brian?

kevpants wrote: »

I always found them less than useless??? You?

Leg extensions the same, plus I don't think they're easy on the knee if he has problems there (open to correction though)

Would you not agree a lunge or deadlift like movement would be better for a fella trying to bring up his underdeveloped lower body?

Aye, I got knee problems myself and was told by a phsyio never to dog and leg excercise where my feet weren't anchored. In other words stick to squats, lunges and at a push leg presses.

Correct me if I am wrong here but squats done properly to parrallel or bellow have no impact on the knee

Brian?

Transform wrote: »

The original posted needs to look into making sure they are taking 4-10g fish oils per day, glucosamine/chondroitin, MSM for his joints and that would possibly help.

I never found they made a blind bit of difference to my knee, could be just a personal thing. What sorted it out were strong quads.

Dirk_Diggler

Since my most recent post has been deleted I'll just second what Transform said on page 1. I hope that doesn't offend anyone.

kevpants

briankeating wrote: »

Aye, I got knee problems myself and was told by a phsyio never to dog

Was this just a moral lesson he was passing on?? :P

k974

Transform wrote: »

Kick up the ass taken - must be the coffee from the bald barista i got the other day, double espressos having that effect

The original posted needs to look into making sure they are taking 4-10g fish oils per day, glucosamine/chondroitin, MSM for his joints and that would possibly help.

However, even with more leg work it does not solve the benching problem per say.

More rotator cuff work, scap retractionn ,chins, changing up the reps and sets and use a semi-supinated grip when doing dumbbell benching will help also.

Just basically focus on getting stronger on all the above and the bench will improve.

thanks can you tell me more about "More rotator cuff work, scap retractionn ,chins, changing up the reps and sets and use a semi-supinated grip when doing dumbbell benching will help also" excerises which ones to do etc.

as i said i've made big improvements elsewhere but i'm stuck on the bench at where i am and any littel tiny bit of advice would be appreicated.

i have a goal for years to get to 3x8 at 100kg not massive or anything but for me after spenidng years stuck where i am i'll be happy for the moment. tonight (i live in oz) i did 3x8 at 80kg and was 98.5kg on the scale.


obvviosly squats etc are the core of any good programme i cant really include them properly only try them when i can manage them this is a drawback i know but looking to get the best routine i can in the circumstances

kevpants

k974 wrote: »

thanks can you tell me more about "More rotator cuff work, scap retractionn ,chins, changing up the reps and sets and use a semi-supinated grip when doing dumbbell benching will help also" excerises which ones to do etc.

Rotator cuff work:
http://www.bodybuilding.com/fun/criticalbench24.htm (Light light light light weights) even though one of the exercises here contains an upright row, the enemy of the rotator cuff, I wouldn't be so sure about that one...

Scap Retraction:
Squeeze your shoulder blades together when on the bench, gives you a solid base to press from.

Chins:
Do Chin ups. Bent over rows too, your back needs to be strong to bench big.

Changing the reps:
Stop concentrating on 3x8 all the time. You mentioned it again in your last post. Some weeks do 5x5's, then change to working up to a 1 rep max, maybe try higher reps up to 12.

Semi supinated grip with DB's:
Dumbell press with palms facing eachother.

Transform

perfectly covered kevpants

Basically, outside of just getting plain old nasty and pushing your self, there are weak links in the bench press that almost every one has.

For most, its weak rotators, weak triceps (do close grip bench press with elbows tucked in and grip slightly inside your shoulder width) and then overall you just basically have to be strong on other lifts to support a 100kg bench.

k974

bench should be better and i'm working on it needed the few pointers to help me get the most out of it.

one lads in gym i had fress session with when i joined and said might as well have used it basically wanted him to make sure was using correct poitions etc luckily was couple minor adjustments aside but he also changed around the programme a bit for me any advice you lads have on it be appreicated it


monday
incline db press
decline barbell press
flat bench db flys
rope pull down
lying db tricep extensions

weds
lat pulldown
lat pull machine (neutral grip)
dumbbell rows
preacher curl machine
seated hammer curls

fri
deadlift
45deg squat machine
seated leg curl machine
leg raises seated machine
db shoulder press
lateral db raises



i would have thought myself that the deadlift would be better on the weds, the ez bar be better than the preacher curl machine, and one more shoulder exerise be included. also no falt bench press but migth be good idea to give that a break for a while



any recommendations be appreicated thanks lads

k974

kevpants wrote: »

Rotator cuff work:
http://www.bodybuilding.com/fun/criticalbench24.htm (Light light light light weights) even though one of the exercises here contains an upright row, the enemy of the rotator cuff, I wouldn't be so sure about that one...

Scap Retraction:
Squeeze your shoulder blades together when on the bench, gives you a solid base to press from.

Chins:
Do Chin ups. Bent over rows too, your back needs to be strong to bench big.

Changing the reps:
Stop concentrating on 3x8 all the time. You mentioned it again in your last post. Some weeks do 5x5's, then change to working up to a 1 rep max, maybe try higher reps up to 12.

Semi supinated grip with DB's:
Dumbell press with palms facing eachother.

thanks going to make sure to do some of those rotator cuff excerises you talking bout. also going to change from 3x8-10 to 5x5 some of the time. its not really the overall weight to me is the important thing but the improvement if i can do 3 set of 100kg by the end of the year thats over a 50% incerease from the start of the year and i'll be more than happy with that!!! thanks everyone

matrixroyal

AFAIK, exercises that are "open chain" ( in other words your feet are not rooted to the ground ) are not as safe for the knee and are not recommended, eg. leg extension. I think they leave the knee exposed to possible unsafe movement.

I can't advise on the op's knee, only his physio / surgeon can.
Anyway after 2 acl reconstructions myself, I found personally that getting rid of the extra weights and doing body weight squats ( really focussing on achieving perfect form ) is what helped me to rehabilitate my quads ( they are now equal size again ). I started doing 20 body weight squats, built it up to about 300 with perfect form and then started to add in the weight again and had very good results. Oh, and don't forget about the hamstrings, an imbalance can be a risk factor for further injury.

IF you have any questions on rehabbing your legs / knee, pm me.

k974

any one have commnets to make on my revised programme? thanks also the cable machines cant be adjusted ti mid height in my gym any other suggestions for rotator cuff excersises?? thanks