freshening up paint on an old car

ogriofa

Hi,
Ive a 96 fiesta. Its a great car, spotless on the inside, runs perfectly and its only got 40k miles on the clock etc etc.
I ride a bike 90% of the time, all year round, so its a run around if im meeting the girlfriend or picking something up.

Thing is the paint isnt great. Id like to freshen it up. The bonnet and probably the doors have, what looks like millions of little hairline scratch marks on it.
A respray would cost 1500, so is there some kind of super polish that would take this out? Something i could do myself just to freshen it up.

The car is worth nothing on the market, but it would do ME very well for years to come.

Any responses would be great!
Thanks,
Brian

cabrwab

Might just need a buffering/good polishing basically!

JoeySully

what color is it??

Henry Ford III

Use cutting compound and a rent a mop (a device like an slower spinning electric drill with a soft pad attached). Go carefully and keep the area damp to avoid burning the paint.

You may be shocked at how well this works.

Vegeta

bit of g6 compund and a decent poilsh would do the job I'd say

ogriofa

ta. Its navy

ogriofa

thanks for the unbelievably quick replies!

Never done anything like this before, could anybody use this stuff? Can you mess up the job?

Vegeta

Henry Ford III wrote: »

Use cutting compound and a rent a mop (a device like an slower spinning electric drill with a soft pad attached). Go carefully and keep the area damp to avoid burning the paint.

Put in bold the two important bits there. Neighbour burnt the paint on the back quarter panel of his car and its a mess, used an angle grinder and not enough water. :eek:

Can easily done by hand but its more labour intensive

minxie

ogriofa wrote: »

thanks for the unbelievably quick replies!

Never done anything like this before, could anybody use this stuff? Can you mess up the job?

anyone. saved myself a fortune.. quiet easy to use:o

Vegeta

ogriofa wrote: »

thanks for the unbelievably quick replies!

Never done anything like this before, could anybody use this stuff? Can you mess up the job?

It is pretty simple. Start small, try it on a bit of the car that doesn't get much notice.

the compund is a paste/cream which is a very very fine grit. It will flatten any bumps (in finish not bodywork) or scratches and as long as you keep the paint wet and go slow you wont really wreck it.

ogriofa

thats brilliant - i had no idea that there was something i could do myself. Im looking at clips on youtube for tips.

Thanks again

Seperate

People shouldn't be giving advice when they really don't know what they're talking about. Especially if it means someone could do damage to their car!

Water will not stop you burning through your paint. The reason you may have seen water being used when polsihing/compounding is to lubricate the polish and make the polisher easier to control on some panels. The polisher, if used incorrectly, will burn through the paint no matter how much water you spray on.

Also 'going slow' is bad advice. The idea is to keep the polisher moving, so as to avoid heat build up. The polish with do the job, once it is worked in enough.

Before buffing your own car, practice on a scrap panel. Get confident with controlling the buffer and learn how to stop heat build-up. You only get one chance with your own car, if you burn-through the paint its respray time.

Vegeta

Seperate wrote: »

People shouldn't be giving advice when they really don't know what they're talking about. Especially if it means someone could do damage to their car!

cos advising someone to use the the proper tools and technique for the job and to take their time is real bad advice. :rolleyes:

Water will not stop you burning through your paint.

Where did anyone say it would? The op was told to keep the area wet and use a slow spinning device designed for the job. Do you disagree

Also 'going slow' is bad advice. The idea is to keep the polisher moving, so as to avoid heat build up. The polish with do the job, once it is worked in enough.

Going slow was meant as a phrase, such as take it one step at a time or don't rush into it.

Before buffing your own car, practice on a scrap panel. Get confident with controlling the buffer and learn how to stop heat build-up. You only get one chance with your own car, if you burn-through the paint its respray time.

Or again do it by hand

Seperate

Henry Ford III wrote: »

Use cutting compound and a rent a mop (a device like an slower spinning electric drill with a soft pad attached). Go carefully and keep the area damp to avoid burning the paint.

You may be shocked at how well this works.

I was refering to that.

vegeta wrote:

It will flatten any bumps (in finish not bodywork) or scratches and as long as you keep the paint wet and go slow you wont really wreck it.

That too.

vegeta wrote:

Neighbour burnt the paint on the back quarter panel of his car and its a mess, used an angle grinder and not enough water.

Then there's that.

You also seem to disregard the depth of the OP's paint too. Before you go near a car with any kind of abrasive polish / buffer, there should be depth readings taken. For all we know, this could have been done before, and as soon as the polisher hits the paint, clearcoat could be burned through in a matter of seconds.

For example, if someone with an RX8 came along for advice, and you told them that... they would burn the paint almost instantly because the paint is very thin on them.

All i'm saying is that its not something you should do without taking precations and researching it properly. You could end up destroying your car.

TomMc

ogriofa wrote: »

thanks for the unbelievably quick replies!

Never done anything like this before, could anybody use this stuff? Can you mess up the job?

Realistically, only skilled individuals with machine polishers and abrasive compounds & polishes will be able to sort it out, and it will cost you several hundred Euro. And even if it was corrected you would have to ensure to wash the car properly from there onwards to avoid this repeating itself. On a '96 car there most probably will not be enough paint (thickness) to correct things fully. Then it is a case of working within certain tolerances & limitations, so as to remove as little paint as possible.

On the cheap something like Autoglym Super Resin Polish or two coats of Bilt Hamber Auto-balm will cover things up for a short while, the fillers wash out quite quickly. Other than that if you want to do it yourself, the only polishes which will fill in properly and stay looking right is Glare. It is used much like Meguiar's 3 step system except it isn't abrasive (cleans, fills and protects), results last way way longer but it is expensive. Lots of hard graft but more laborious than difficult. We have started using these on the fleet as everything else simply doesn't hold up.

MarkN

TomMc wrote: »

Realistically, only skilled individuals with machine polishers and abrasive compounds & polishes will be able to sort it out, and it will cost you several hundred Euro.

It wouldn't be several hundred - 200 tops.

If you're doing it yourself, start with a clay bar.

ogriofa

thanks fellas, can you reccomend someone for a professional job?
Did a google and nothing jumped out at me.
There were places like dial a dent, but they only seem to work on small areas.
Id want to do the whole car.

Ta

mickdw

Its an old car which is acknowledged to be pretty worthless so no better place to start polishing. Surely a cloth and some T Cut would do a pretty good job on this. OP only wants a reasonable finish.

Vegeta

mickdw wrote: »

Its an old car which is acknowledged to be pretty worthless so no better place to start polishing. Surely a cloth and some T Cut would do a pretty good job on this. OP only wants a reasonable finish.

Couldn't agree more. Wouldn't even bother my hole with the expense or time learning to use a buffer/polisher.

Do it by hand.

Would I be right in saying that the 2 nay sayers are in the car detailing indusrty?

TomMc

MarkN wrote: »

It wouldn't be several hundred - 200 tops.

If you're doing it yourself, start with a clay bar.

200 would be optimistic for paint correction. Anyone who did it professionally for that kind of money with todays overheads, wouldn't be in business for too long. At least as a legitimate business paying rent, vat, insurance and all that. And if you underprice your services, people will undervalue your talent as well. From detailer's site he charges 375, prodetail 325 (although don't know how good he is). I know of a few others that do it part time in their spare time, but it aint cheap. Otherwise if you pay peanuts you get monkies. 2 days work (in alot of cases) for 200 quid, I don't think so.

TomMc

Vegeta wrote: »

Couldn't agree more. Wouldn't even bother my hole with the expense or time learning to use a buffer/polisher.

Do it by hand.

Would I be right in saying that the 2 nay sayers are in the car detailing indusrty?

Not wishing to rub anyone up the wrong way but if the car isn't worth paying proper money to put right, don't bother. But if the OP feels he will get a few more years out of it and he wants it looking right, it is his call. He can either do it himself, except the more inferior the products he uses, the more often he will have to keep doing it. T-cut and the likes will do very little for the scratches or possibly make things worse. Lots of products will cover things up for a month or two, but then you have to apply over and over and over again. IMO, a waste of time. Either do it right or live with it as is. So you pay your money, you take your choice.

Seperate is a detailer. I'm a car nut with over 40 years experience polishing my own cars. Would like to do it professionally but I don't think I'm that fit to do it day in, day out and it wouldn't support the wife and kids, so alas just a hobby.:) The problem is all but a small few of the general public actually know the difference between valeting and detailing and you could count the number of real detailers in Ireland on one hand. Even bodyshops couldn't do what detailers do and yet people come on here, with little or no experience giving all sorts of opinions, like the whole thing is childsplay. Everyone is entitled to their opinion but when the inexperienced folk start talking the talk about this, that and the other, recommending yellow pack products and so on or that any valetor can sort this out, without ever having walked the walk, then they lose credibility (on this subject). If you don't study medicine and pass your exams you cannot claim to be a doctor. If you don't have years of experience detailing cars at a very high level, you cannot claim to be an expert & know better than craftsmen who do.

Neilw

Well said!

Vegeta

TomMc wrote: »

If you don't have years of experience detailing cars at a very high level, you cannot claim to be an expert & know better than craftsmen who do.

Ah ya see now this gets under my skin.

No one here has claimed to know more than a professional detailer. Quite the opposite actually. The pros have come in swinging their big mickeys with the attitude of "I'm a pro. So I am right"

Can the op do a respectable job on his 96 fiesta. Yes he bloddy can and that's all I and others are saying. It may not be as quick and as good as a pro but it will do and on a budget.

So mister 40+ years of expereince. The fist car you used a fine cutting compund on. I assume it was a total wreck afterwards yeah and needed a full respray cause you didn't have 40 years experience at that stage and you weren't a pro.

Henry Ford III

Vegeta wrote: »

....No one here has claimed to know more than a professional detailer. Quite the opposite actually. The pros have come in swinging their big mickeys with the attitude of "I'm a pro. So I am right"...

QFT. This is a 12 y.o. Fiesta with faded and flat paint. Some degree of balance is needed here.

TomMc

Vegeta wrote: »

Ah ya see now this gets under my skin.

No one here has claimed to know more than a professional detailer. Quite the opposite actually. The pros have come in swinging their big mickeys with the attitude of "I'm a pro. So I am right"

Can the op do a respectable job on his 96 fiesta. Yes he bloddy can and that's all I and others are saying. It may not be as quick and as good as a pro but it will do and on a budget.

So mister 40+ years of expereince. The fist car you used a fine cutting compund on. I assume it was a total wreck afterwards yeah and needed a full respray cause you didn't have 40 years experience at that stage and you weren't a pro.

What a wally. You are shooting yourself in the foot. If someone is a pro they know best by virtue of the fact that they are indeed a qualified professional in their field (and the quality of their work only serves to exemplify this). For someone who isn't to question what they are saying in a way that suggests they might know better, is complete ignorance. Your acting like a crackpot.

Course the OP can do a good job but you get what you pay for. If a complete amateur thinks they are going to remove swirls first time out with a polisher, going on some of the advice given previously, they are going to be in for a major disappointment.

Whether they wreck their paint or not is another story. A fine cutting compound will only remove very light marks, a medium or heavy abrasive one would be needed for more major jobs like a car of the OP's age. And this is where the problem lies, the more intensive stuff is not recommended for use by novices. An orbital polisher and a highly abrasive polish or god forbid a newbie with a rotary one, is an accident waiting to happen. I can assure you I spent hundreds of hours practising on scrap panels before I put a machine polisher near my own cars. It's on account of my experience that I know what is realistic and what is pie in the sky.

But then some people are just cheapskates, begrudging what they cannot afford or are too ignorant to appreciate. They just don't get it. If a person has a keen interest in the craft of maintaining a car to a very high standard, taking pride in its appearance, that is their prerogative. If that is what floats their boat good luck to them. If others like to throw scorn on them and not respect their choices, well that is just a case of immaturity. Probably the type of people who fall out of pubs and have few if any constructive hobbies or interests themselves.

mickdw

ffs its a 12 year old fiesta. Most people wont want to spend 3- 400 euro on the paintwork of a car of no value, I certainly wouldnt. People on here have probably frightened him with stories of resprays etc. I tackled the bonnet of an old audi 80 I used to have. It had gone pink. Cloth and T cut, and came up nice and looked respectable. It was a 9 year old car. I wouldnt do it on something valuable but neither would I spend money on that car. And as for the detailers on here, Anybody recommending that level of professional work on a 96 fiesta is not acting responsibly and is ripping off the customer.

Seperate

mickdw wrote: »

ffs its a 12 year old fiesta. Most people wont want to spend 3- 400 euro on the paintwork of a car of no value, I certainly wouldnt. People on here have probably frightened him with stories of resprays etc. I tackled the bonnet of an old audi 80 I used to have. It had gone pink. Cloth and T cut, and came up nice and looked respectable. It was a 9 year old car. I wouldnt do it on something valuable but neither would I spend money on that car. And as for the detailers on here, Anybody recommending that level of professional work on a 96 fiesta is not acting responsibly and is ripping off the customer.

I never recommended a detail to him. I simply said the advice given was wrong.

mickdw

Seperate wrote: »

I never recommended a detail to him. I simply said the advice given was wrong.

Agreed, its just the general tone of the thread was that anything other than a pro job was a disaster and the car woul be wrecked.

Vegeta

TomMc wrote: »

What a wally. You are shooting yourself in the foot. If someone is a pro they know best by virtue of the fact that they are indeed a qualified professional in their field (and the quality of their work only serves to exemplify this). For someone who isn't to question what they are saying in a way that suggests they might know better, is complete ignorance. Your acting like a crackpot.

I find it comical you call me a wally and then you talk about maturity in the same post. Real mature of you :P

I have not once questioned the advice given by any one here.

I have attacked the attitude of the so called "pros" picking on points I did not make.

for example

Water will not stop you burning through your paint

Personally I did not say this

Sure I was quoted saying to keep the paint wet/damp,
use the right tool for the job (not like my neighbour who used an angle grinder), to take your time (in fairness i said the word slow when i shouldn't have)
and start on a small part of the car.

I have said do it by hand several times too as my method of choice. While not completely risk free it does reduce it a lot.

Course the OP can do a good job but you get what you pay for. If a complete amateur thinks they are going to remove swirls first time out with a polisher, going on some of the advice given previously, they are going to be in for a major disappointment.

And I agree, I wouldn't dream of touching an exotic,rare or expensive car with a polisher as I don't have the skill with one to trust myself. Would I give a go at a friends 96 fiesta by hand with a fine cutting compund to see does it improve it. Yes I would.

I can assure you I spent hundreds of hours practising on scrap panels before I put a machine polisher near my own cars. It's on account of my experience that I know what is realistic and what is pie in the sky.

You ever do it by hand before learning to use the machine?

But then some people are just cheapskates, begrudging what they cannot afford or are too ignorant to appreciate. They just don't get it. If a person has a keen interest in the craft of maintaining a car to a very high standard, taking pride in its appearance, that is their prerogative.

Well if that was the OPs perogative would it have ever got like that in the first place? He asked was there something he could do. There is. He wants to do this on the cheap.

Probably the type of people who fall out of pubs and have few if any constructive hobbies or interests themselves.

If that is meant about me personally then I fear you have judged me rather badly as a non drinking (see prior posts in non drinking forum if ya don't believe me) hunting, fitness and computer game enthusiast.

Pro Detail

Hi Everyone, My names Neil and i run Pro Detail. Saw a bit of squabbling going on, and someone mentioned us so i thought id add a bit to it. The paint on the fiesta from my reading as swirl marks (The tiny hairline scratches) and oxidation (Dullness of the paint). The oxidation you could fix yourself with some good products and a bit of elbow grease, it wont do it perfectly but you'll notice the difference. As far as removing the swirls, if you're a DIY guy your best bet is to buy a machine polisher (Dual Action). This isn't as powerfull as a rotary (Which works in the same manner as a drill as someone recommended). You wont burn through the paint this way either, well it would be hard to!!

As far as getting it detailed, unless a car is worth over 3, 4K i dont advise it. People even seem shocked that i go as little as 3, 4k, but ive done a couple of cars that price that have been sold and the cost of the detail is recouped in the sale because of the car being in such good nick. If you did want to get you're car done but didnt want to set aside €325. I do have a paint correction per hour service. So for instance if you wanted to spend €200, that would get you a single stage polish that would remove 80% of the swirls.

Anyway, as a proffessional, my adice would be to not tackle it with any heavy compounds or drills yourself, you'll most likely get it into more trouble.

I hope i was to some assistance to you guys.

Neil

www.prodetail.ie