Festival of world Cultures are looking for Volunteer photographers

bullpost

Details below:
http://www.festivalofworldcultures.com/volunteer/default2008.asp#photographers

quickg

There seems to be a trend now to offer budding or amateur photographers the "opportunity" to showcase their skills. Unfortunately, there is no payment being offered. I am wondering is this a good thing or is it another devaluation of a photographer's skills by working for nothing?

Covey

Mmmm and what do us "photographers" have to deliver for the privilege??

T

melekalikimaka

hummm considering i 'think' i may work for them... not to impressed

quickg

There's a saying "You will always have plenty of work, if you work for nothing"

Thirdfox

Just like any profession they're perfectly entitled to ask - everyone has a choice of not agreeing.

You can give free legal advice if you want to, doubt many people will trust you to provide a quality service. Similarly people can choose to provide free photography services, if the end results are not up to scratch then the organisers will learn better for next time and get professionals. If the photos are good enough...it means that the professionals are overcharging or the general populace has improved their skill set to render (photo-journalism at least) an area where anyone can take good photos in.

As for myself personally, having done some paid and voluntary events coverage I think it's a bit too stressful for me to do it completely free. I'd rather enjoy the day and snap some good photos (if I happen to spot some around).

edit: for the Special Olympics I volunteered my other skills (translator) to the organisers - a professional could have made a lot of money, but I was happy to provide it free of charge (along with 30,000 others in different fields). I don't think it's wrong to ask people for free help and if people choose to give their time to what they see as a worthwhile effort then all credit to them (in my eyes).

quickg

Special Olympics are slightly different as it is a genuine humanitarian organisation whom need the help of volunteers.
The problem now is that organisations whom are in it to make a profit are cleverly exploiting the whole amateur photography scene now and getting something for nothing.
Its a worrying trend.

bullpost

This festival is run by Dun Laoghaire council. It does charge for some of the gigs but a lot of the attractions, including gigs by international stars , are free.
It can't be compared to a for-profit festival.
For anyone who volunteers its a two-way street. Give your time and expertise and in return get some good experience and access to some interesting gigs and situations.

Paulw

Of course it's worthwhile doing your photography for free. Think of all the new camera gear you can buy with your earnings ... oh wait .... it's NONE.

Free is very nice for business - they make more profit.
Free for you gets you nothing.

Maybe we should all work for free, and maybe camera gear should be free too.

quickg

Paulw wrote: »

Of course it's worthwhile doing your photography for free. Think of all the new camera gear you can buy with your earnings ... oh wait .... it's NONE.

Free is very nice for business - they make more profit.
Free for you gets you nothing.

Maybe we should all work for free, and maybe camera gear should be free too.

Correct, I dont think there is any other hobby/profession where people will give their time and very expensive equipment free just for the "experience". Thats a road people will regret going down. It just devalues the product.

There are going to be a lot of people working at this "free " event, but you can guarantee other professions are not giving their time for nothing, why should photographers?

melekalikimaka

bullpost wrote: »

This festival is run by Dun Laoghaire council. .

no its not, its paid for by dlrcc, thats all

unreggd

crap that


At least when ye shoot a gig for free ye get perks [free entry, hang with the band (sometimes)]


they prob wont even credit the photographers

Paulw

I'm half tempted to contact them and ask what their rate of pay is - for coverage and also per photo used. I'd also ask about the T&Cs for usage of images.

challengemaster

Paulw wrote: »

I'm half tempted to contact them and ask what their rate of pay is - for coverage and also per photo used. I'd also ask about the T&Cs for usage of images.

Do it... do eeeeeeeeeet!:D

Paulw

Done.

I await their considered response. :rolleyes:

Maybe a few people should do it. It shows interest in photographing the event, and may even lead to some paid work for someone. :pac:

bernard0368

I am sure they will get some people to do it. The quality of shots may not be earth shattering but it was free. Peanuts and monkies comes to mind.
Others will do it for the experiance, Live bands, concerts, various street acts, street photos etc. You could do worse in building a portfolio.

Paulw

They can't stop you from taking photos on the street for your portfolio anyway. It's public access and public streets.

The ONLY advantage is for indoor concerts/events.

So, you can still build a good, and free portfolio. Of course, the Street Performers World Championship was also very good for this sort of thing, being in a public environment.

bullpost

Splitting hairs ;-)

The Festival of World Cultures office operates within the Department of Culture, Community, Development and Amenities (CCDA) of Dún Laoghaire-Rathdown County Council, alongside the Arts Office and DLR Events.

melekalikimaka wrote: »

no its not, its paid for by dlrcc, thats all

Climate Expert

Do the musicians get paid? Yes
Do the sound engineers get paid? Yes (I know one who did last year)
Do the info kiosk people get paid? Yes
Do security get paid? Yes

Paulw

I got an email response - basically a copy/paste from the website and asking if I'd be interested.

smash

I sent an email, just to see what they'd reply... none yet

decsramble

Climate Expert wrote: »

Do the musicians get paid? Yes
Do the sound engineers get paid? Yes (I know one who did last year)
Do the info kiosk people get paid? Yes
Do security get paid? Yes

You know I was considering volunteering for this and then I saw your post. True, painfully true. Also isnt it the weekend before the Peoples Photography? I think I'll be busy trying to get my printer working

smash

I'm sure I got the same response as you Paul

Thanks for your interest. We have a team of photographers over the festival weekend who are assigned to document different events & areas. Our selected team are given backstage passes plus all the trimmings of being a Festival volunteer, including passes to the Volunteers Club, Festival t-shirt and a goodie bag. This is an opportunity for a keen photographer to get access to backstage operations, behind the scenes action and permission to take photos at the headline concerts (indoor). Only official Festival photographers have this honor! In addition to the weekend experience each photographer walks away with a unique portfolio of work. We in turn, use the photographs to compile our festival documentation, for future brochures & festival publications. To apply please send in a sample of work (either website/picasa/flikr or attachments - zipped please), today is the closing date, so if you are interested please send this today

Paulw

Exactly. Copy/paste.

Not much info there.

sasar

This is what I got back from them:

Thanks Alex,
We will be making selections this week,
Kind regards,
Soracha

smash

I'm going to try and get more info! What's the bets that you sign a disclaimer that says they take ownership of the photos.

Paulw

I was gonna ask that.

Does the photographer retain copyright?
What licensing rights are DLRC asking for, for use of the images?
What advantage is there for a photographer, aside from photographic access to indoor events, since anyone can take photos outdoors in a public area?

Covey

A goodie bag for god sake Paul :P Join the queue ..:D

Cameraman

Have to say I disagree with most of you. The FOWC is not run as a commercial, profit-making venture, and most of the people involved aren't paid, and most of the events are free. I see nothing wrong with this - on the contrary, I think it is laudable.

Not everything is about money.

sunny2004

Cameraman wrote: »

Have to say I disagree with most of you. The FOWC is not run as a commercial, profit-making venture, and most of the people involved aren't paid, and most of the events are free. I see nothing wrong with this - on the contrary, I think it is laudable.

Not everything is about money.

+1

quickg

steve06 wrote: »

I'm sure I got the same response as you Paul

Thanks for your interest. We have a team of photographers over the festival weekend who are assigned to document different events & areas. Our selected team are given backstage passes plus all the trimmings of being a Festival volunteer, including passes to the Volunteers Club, Festival t-shirt and a goodie bag. This is an opportunity for a keen photographer to get access to backstage operations, behind the scenes action and permission to take photos at the headline concerts (indoor). Only official Festival photographers have this honor! In addition to the weekend experience each photographer walks away with a unique portfolio of work. We in turn, use the photographs to compile our festival documentation, for future brochures & festival publications. To apply please send in a sample of work (either website/picasa/flikr or attachments - zipped please), today is the closing date, so if you are interested please send this today

That's so depressing. Basically, they are going to look at your work and decide whether it is good enough for you to be picked to work for nothing.

Then to rub it in, they promise a goodie bag. Wee bit condescending maybe?

Shiny

I gave them a link to my flickr anyway.

If I get picked I will most likely sell (or try to) most
of the photos on a stock website.
This goal will be kept in mind when composing the
photos etc....:)

Paulw

Will you have the rights to do that? Do you have it in writing from them that you (the photographer) will retain full copyright?

Technically it could be viewed that you are in their employment (even just for the sum of a goodie bag), and hence they may actually have rights over your photos.

decsramble

Paulw wrote: »

Will you have the rights to do that? Do you have it in writing from them that you (the photographer) will retain full copyright?

Technically it could be viewed that you are in their employment (even just for the sum of a goodie bag), and hence they may actually have rights over your photos.

I wonder if a photographer is classed as in their employment would their insurance cover camera gear?

Covey

Imagine it would.

You're self-employed doing a job for them. Fixed Fee, in this case a goodie bag :rolleyes:

Thats assuming you have professional insurance ?

decsramble

Covey wrote: »

Imagine it would.

You're self-employed doing a job for them. Fixed Fee, in this case a goodie bag :rolleyes:

Thats assuming you have professional insurance ?

Nope, I'm not a professional. I'm a bit confused, so your saying their insurance would probably cover camera gear that gets damaged while in their employee but only if the photographer has their own professional insurance?

Ricky91t

PEOPLE!You're forgetting the valuble T-Shirt too :pac:

Paulw

decsramble wrote: »

Nope, I'm not a professional. I'm a bit confused, so your saying their insurance would probably cover camera gear that gets damaged while in their employee but only if the photographer has their own professional insurance?

I would assume that because you are technically self employed, that their insurance would NOT cover you, and that you would require, not only your own camera gear insurance, but also public liability insurance (in case of accident or injury) while you're working for them.

You're better off asking them detailed specific questions, about insurance, public liability, copyright of your images, rights of use of the images you take, etc.

decsramble

Paulw wrote: »

I would assume that because you are technically self employed, that their insurance would NOT cover you, and that you would require, not only your own camera gear insurance, but also public liability insurance (in case of accident or injury) while you're working for them.

You're better off asking them detailed specific questions, about insurance, public liability, copyright of your images, rights of use of the images you take, etc.

Lol, wont be doing it so

Covey

Mis-read that sorry.

I'd imagine you are not in their employment and your own insurance would be what would cover you.

If you're insured as an amateur, I'd imagine your not insured, as you've not got the correct insurance then.

T.

decsramble wrote: »

Nope, I'm not a professional. I'm a bit confused, so your saying their insurance would probably cover camera gear that gets damaged while in their employee but only if the photographer has their own professional insurance?

oops, Paul beat me to it !!

decsramble

Covey wrote: »

Mis-read that sorry.

I'd imagine you are not in their employment and your own insurance would be what would cover you.

If you're insured as an amateur, I'd imagine your not insured, as you've not got the correct insurance then.

T.



oops, Paul beat me to it !!

Cool, thanks. I think I'll try to go one of the days anyway but only as a member of the general public.

If someone does get chosen to be one of the official photographers it would be interesting to hear how it all went later on. Will the t-shirt make it all worth while?

bullpost

Wow. Kinda sorry I posted this now

Covey

bullpost wrote: »

Wow. Kinda sorry I posted this now

No need to feel sorry at all.

However, these are very live and real issues in the photography business. Some people don't quite realise that there's a world of difference between a hobby and a business (even part-time).

T.

bullpost

For me its a hobby so I wouldn't expect to get paid for volunteering for a festival which puts a lot back into the community.

Ricky91t

Id jump at an oppurtunity like this if it was local the only gigs round here are some what crap and id love to be by the stage to get good pics to adds to my portfolio

quickg

bullpost wrote: »

For me its a hobby so I wouldn't expect to get paid for volunteering for a festival which puts a lot back into the community.

Photography is just a hobby for most people. But there are some who dream of one day turning their hobby into their career.
Its a career which wont look too attractive or lucrative if output and people's time is constantly being undervalued.
There are at least 2 maybe 3 professional photographers out there now whom have one less commission to do becuase people are working for a goodie bag and a t-shirt.

bullpost

I sympatise but I feel you guys are simply picking on the wrong event. Its an event which isn't run for profit and which provides a massive amount of entertainment for free and even the not for free stuff is reasonably priced.
If you put the same arguments about "electric Picnic" or other festivals I would be in total agreement with you.

quickg wrote: »

Photography is just a hobby for most people. But there are some who dream of one day turning their hobby into their career.
Its a career which wont look too attractive or lucrative if output and people's time is constantly being undervalued.
There are at least 2 maybe 3 professional photographers out there now whom have one less commission to do becuase people are working for a goodie bag and a t-shirt.

Shiny

Paulw wrote: »

Will you have the rights to do that? Do you have it in writing from them that you (the photographer) will retain full copyright?

Technically it could be viewed that you are in their employment (even just for the sum of a goodie bag), and hence they may actually have rights over your photos.

I would only be selling them for editorial use only as I would not have
the permission of the people in the photograph itself. (ie no model release)

If I took the photos then they are at the very least partly mine and I will
be careful before signing anything to make sure of this.

I'm not doing it for the goodie bag or tshirt but for the experience. Its a nice
way for a normal grade photographer to get a press(photography?) pass to an
event without any real pressure as far as i can see.

In terms of "undervaluing the industry" this is happens in every aspect
of industry and the only way to prevent it is to beat it with quality.

for example I wouldn't dare put myself forward as a photographer for a
wedding regardless of the cost.

Paulw

Shiny wrote: »

I would only be selling them for editorial use only as I would not have
the permission of the people in the photograph itself. (ie no model release)

Editorial? To the press? You don't need a model release if the image is taken in public and is not used for commerical/advertising.

Shiny wrote: »

If I took the photos then they are at the very least partly mine and I will be careful before signing anything to make sure of this.

Partly?? You do need to be sure just what rights are yours, and what rights the council want. I doubt that they are fully aware either.

Shiny wrote: »

I'm not doing it for the goodie bag or tshirt but for the experience. Its a nice way for a normal grade photographer to get a press(photography?) pass to an event without any real pressure as far as i can see.

The only added access is for indoor concerts. Other than that, you have no more access than anyone else. The vast majority of events are outdoor, in public space. So, anyone can bring a camera and take picts, keeping full copyright of your images and not having to give them to anyone.

Shiny

Paulw wrote: »

Editorial? To the press? You don't need a model release if the image is taken in public and is not used for commerical/advertising.

Partly?? You do need to be sure just what rights are yours, and what rights the council want. I doubt that they are fully aware either.

The only added access is for indoor concerts. Other than that, you have no more access than anyone else. The vast majority of events are outdoor, in public space. So, anyone can bring a camera and take picts, keeping full copyright of your images and not having to give them to anyone.

Yeah, when you don't have a model release the image automatically becomes
limited to the editorial market ie press, blogs, websites etc

I don't think they are going to be too serious about the rights of the
images. Their comment that you will get a "unique portfolio of work"
would seem a bit pointless if ultimately the images weren't yours.

I will be going to the festival for the 3 days regardless and plan to have
a bit of fun and food hopefully.

Paulw

Shiny wrote: »

Yeah, when you don't have a model release the image automatically becomes limited to the editorial market ie press, blogs, websites etc

That's not fully correct. You can use images (taken in public) for limited edition prints and for your own portfolio.

Shiny wrote: »

I will be going to the festival for the 3 days regardless and plan to have a bit of fun and food hopefully.

I hope to go too, to wander around, enjoy the scenes and take some photos too. I'm sure it will be a good weekend/event.