Bray: New town centre

pirelli

Is starting next year and will provide the construction industry with work until 2016.The development was granted permission yesterday by the council.
It is going to generate 2 billion euros worth of construction work just when its needed.

That's a good thing anyway and is allegedly opening in 2012. And will create 2500 local jobs.

Calibos

Wow, thats great news!!

That end of the Dargle was knacker drinking central. Now all we need is the Council to give Joe Tynan planning permission to build luxury apartments at the harbour. Cannot believe they rejected him the last time.

Not a suitable developement for the area etc

Yeah, much prefer the look of a decrepit warehouse, rusted plant machinery, overflowing skips etc. Lovely sight for visitors on the Dart of the gateway to Bray.

pirelli

Is that warehouse not used, when I visited bray last it seemd to be in use. While it is run down, it always demonstrated Bray as a cheap property zone. With it gone and plush apartements or better yet a marina, Bray property price will quadruple.

Property prices will rise there in Bray,anybody agree.

and76

Brilliant for Bray although its still a pity the shops wont be on the main st. Hopefully they'll convert that back to a car park ASAP and those developers should have to pay to convert the shop front and main st to what it was!

foxy06

Heard through the grapevine today that the florentine is now not going ahead and will instead be used as a multi story car park. Has anyone any info on this?

If mods think a new thread would be suitable feel free

HalloweenJack

I wouldn't be terribly surprised if that was the case. The town centre desperately needs a car park so it wouldn't be so bad. However, I'm pretty sure that the Florentine centre has been given the go ahead.

The new town centre will be great. Finally get rid of the golf course and the slaughteryard. Along with all the trees and crap up all along the river and near the bridge.

foxy06

It was given the go ahead but because Ballymore were leaving it so long and the residents and businesses were complaining of the parking situation the council threatened to take the site back and I think that today that happened. Just heard from a fella that does security for the site so not sure of all the details. would like to know more if anyone has any info. Might be in the Bray People tomorrow.

skibum

Any development / investment in the town sounds good. My only concern is how will the town / main street cope with the extra volume of traffic that this mixed development will bring?

Any links to the plans etc?
Thanks

Alun

I have mixed feelings about it to be honest. On the one hand, Bray sorely needs a facelift (not the recent pathetic attempt by the Chamber of Commerce, which involved a few pots of paint and a couple of hanging baskets), but I'm not sure that building the "new" town centre will have any effect on the "old" one, apart from possibly taking what little custom it has away, and making it even more run down than it already is. Add to that the fact that 95% of the shops in the new centre will probably be (predominantly women's) clothes and shoe shops, and I don't see it making any difference to me personally, and I'll still be going in to Dublin for anything other than the weekly groceries shop.

foxy06

http://www.braytowncentre.com/masterplan.htm

Heres a copy of the plan from the Bray town centre website

and76

Does anyone know if they resolved the problems concerning the flood plain? From that website all the shops are going to be right in it!!!!

Mushy

I hear now that the Florentine Centre on the Main Street has been shelved. Should get that back to car parking space ASAP now.

Lil' Smiler

I was in a friends office the other day opposite Smyths and the saw the state of what was the car park! its an absolute mess!!

Yes I definitely agree, bray needs a major facelift! So many of the shop fronts could be re done

dunser

Would all the moaners please get a Life, Bray badly needs a new town Centre, for the last 15 yrs the traders in Bray have rejected any development in the town afraid they would be pushed out. 12 yrs ago the managed to object to Dunnes Development where the New Council offices are now. Its was a complete joke and the Town has being left behind by the likes of Greystones, Wicklow &Arklow. Nobody shops in Bray anymore because of No parking and the Shop selection is poor. I am so delighted as I was considering moving away from my home town but at Long last we will have something that will match Dundrum.

Alun

Who's moaning? I as much as anyone would like a vibrant town centre with a decent varied, all-round selection of shops, but building yet another Dundrum style development in Bray with the majority probably being women's clothes and shoe shops will get as much business from me (or my wife for that matter) as the actual Dundrum, i.e. a big fat zero. If it's being built results in the existing Main St. traders pulling their thumbs out and moving their collective arses into the 21st century then all well and good, but if it results in it becoming even more run down than it already is, then that part of town really could turn into a ghost town, something that would do no-one any good.

When I lived in Holland before I moved here, the local traders in the town I lived in with a population smaller than that of Bray, were seeing a lot of their trade going to the nearby big city (Eindhoven). The local shopping centre wasn't old by any means, built in the late 80's and vastly better than anything Bray can offer, but it was beginning to age a little and they themselves, with no financing from the local council or anything, got together and privately raised the 10's of millions necessary to do a complete refurb, and extension of the existing centre. The result? A bustling, thriving, and varied selection of shops meaning that you very rarely had to go anywhere else for 99% of your needs.

Eoin

dunser wrote: »

the Town has being left behind by the likes of Greystones, Wicklow &Arklow. Nobody shops in Bray anymore because of No parking and the Shop selection is poor.

As far as I can tell, the new shopping centre in Greystones has not worked out at all. I also don't look forward to having Dundrum-esque traffic coming into Bray all weekend, it's bad enough as it is.

and76

Bray needs something, its unforunate the main st centre hasnt got the go ahead but we'd be mad to stop any other shopping development. The town has the same shops pretty much for the last 20yrs its time we had some good choice and people can buy in Bray and not elsewhere!

dunser

Well said, The town needs to move on, The whole plan will mean new access routes to the town the traffic will improve

Mitch Connor

Rumours going round that a new objection/appeal has been lodged against this.

Alun

Tauren wrote: »

Rumours going round that a new objection/appeal has been lodged against this.

There was something in the most recent Wicklow Times about it. I think it was Deirdre de Burca / Green Party again.

and76

Yes the greens have objected to it, was in the Northwicklow times the other week.

TheInvisibleFie

foxy06 wrote: »

http://www.braytowncentre.com/masterplan.htm

Heres a copy of the plan from the Bray town centre website

Ok I'm admitting I can't read maps. But you see the very top of the map between all the white and the track? Is that the valley between Woodbrook and Corke Abbey? And if it is why is it in colour (I am assuming colour means owned by whoever is building)? Thanks.

Lil' Smiler

I can't read the map at all either, don't know what's what. is the white bridge beside number 11 the dargle bridge coz then it'd make alot more sense to me.

Tippex

Aparently there has only been a single objection to the revised application and it is from someonw who lives in sutton not even someone local.

Is there anywhere we can log on to actually read the contents of the objection?
just checked here http://www.pleanala.ie/casenum/230246.htm

I reckon it would be a travesty if this doesnt go ahead. Bray as town has been dead / dying since I was a kid.

Eoin

www.wicklow.ie has a link to the planning website. I could see some applications by Pizarro, but not any objections - but I could be looking in the wrong place.

Tippex

As reported in the herald last week....
http://www.herald.ie/national-news/objector-to-83642bn-bray-plan-lives-54km-away-1448631.html

Eoin

I have to admit I am absolutely dreading any extra traffic.

Tippex

yeah the traffic will most likely be woeful but the amount of jobs it is going to create in the town is badly needed.

foxy06

Have they made no allowances for traffic at all?? The Dublin road is the worst for traffic as it is so if they do nothing it will be a nightmare.

Alun

foxy06 wrote: »

Have they made no allowances for traffic at all?? The Dublin road is the worst for traffic as it is so if they do nothing it will be a nightmare.

I agree .. there seems to be some work being done on the Dublin Road / Castle Street in the immediate vicinity of the new town centre for access purposes, but what about the rest? Can you imagine the queues of traffic on the stretch past the old Industrial Yarns complex there? It's bad enough as it is trying to get in and out of Bray along there. And what about people coming from the south? Are they going to be funnelled along the already chaotic and overcrowded Main St.?

Eoin

I imagine they will come down Old Connaught from the Bray/Shankill exit?

Alun

eoin_s wrote: »

I imagine they will come down Old Connaught from the Bray/Shankill exit?

Well, they could .. but anyone who isn't that familiar with Bray will probably come down the N11, see the Bray South exit sign and then end up going down the Killarney Road / Main St. route. Unless it's signposted to the contrary that is. But even if they used the Bray/Shankill exit and came down Old Connaught, they'd still get stuck at the lights by the Statoil garage trying to join the same stretch of the Dublin Road with the traffic that came from the north.

Tippex

from the looks of the masterplan http://www.braytowncentre.com/masterplan.htm they plan on building a road from the shankill roundabout just before windsor for access to the town centre.

Alun

Tippex wrote: »

from the looks of the masterplan http://www.braytowncentre.com/masterplan.htm they plan on building a road from the shankill roundabout just before windsor for access to the town centre.

If that's the road marked "8 Southern Access" you're talking about I think it looks as if that's going around from a new junction between the Statoil garage and the old Industrial Yarns building where the furniture store is, at least that's what the big rectangular building to the south of it looks like, and it looks like traffic will still have to make it from the Shankill roundabout to there first.

Take a look on the aerial photos on Google Earth or Google Maps and compare with that map and you'll see what I mean.

The Real B-man

This before or after the Florentine Center? i wouldnt hold my breath on this been done for a while it is Bray afterall! :rolleyes:

johnny_ultimate

Lulz at the Bray people article on the objector today. Their phonecall to 'George' was investigative journalism at its finest.

Tippex

Alun wrote: »

If that's the road marked "8 Southern Access" you're talking about I think it looks as if that's going around from a new junction between the Statoil garage and the old Industrial Yarns building where the furniture store is, at least that's what the big rectangular building to the south of it looks like, and it looks like traffic will still have to make it from the Shankill roundabout to there first.

Take a look on the aerial photos on Google Earth or Google Maps and compare with that map and you'll see what I mean.

Yep your right that access road is to the north of industrial yarns.
And the one marked 9(harbour link) is through ravenswell. will cause problems alright.

and76

There is supposed to be a ring road and then the seapoint rd was going to be made one way or something. I dont know if they can do anything about the entry in through the Dublin road unless the link road could link up with the first roundabout there. Still i think the development has to go ahead over these troubles, bray needs the lift and the employment!

Tippex

yep totally agree that it has to go ahead as the town has died a death.

One thing that gets me is the fact that the objector is from sutton. How can they justify objecting to something that does not affect them or is there other factors at work? I could understand it if it was residents objecting but overall the development will be of benefit to Bray

worded

and76 wrote: »

Does anyone know if they resolved the problems concerning the flood plain? From that website all the shops are going to be right in it!!!!

If there is flooding in Bray will a lot of places get hit?

and76

There is plans for more flood work to be done I thought it was to start soon but havent heard anymore. Originally this was a main concern to all as I'm from the dargle and also for the houses they build in the area too.
We'll have to wait and see and hope the councellors make it a priority the area will be safe and the dargle area in general.
Its such a pity the town centre hasnt worked out but we have to have something in the town again its crazy to have so little for such a big populated town.

Eoin

I really hope they have thought through the implications to the traffic.

Driving home yesterday, the traffic at the Shankill roundabout was backed up to the end of the slip road from the M11. This was at 7:30 in the evening, and it can be worse again at the weekends. If it's even a fraction as bad as it was during the festival a couple of weeks ago, it could be an absolute nightmare.

Alun

eoin_s wrote: »

I really hope they have thought through the implications to the traffic.

So do I, but I seriously doubt it, at least not taking in the big picture. OK, they're putting in new access roads, but there seems to be nothing else being done. That's the problem when you let private developers dictate what should be long-term planning policy, combined with the pathetically amateurish attempt at local government we have here..

I lived in the Netherlands before coming here, and the way it would be done there would be a) define a need for a development, e.g. shopping centre, housing development, industrial estate, hospital, school etc., b) buy up / reserve land for said development, c) build necessary infrastructure (roads, sewage, utilities etc.) around it, and then finally d) put the development out to tender. In other words, the whole process is driven by actual needs decided by local government, not by property developers.

Eoin

Holland is just so much more organised than here, there's not even any point making a comparison!

Alun

eoin_s wrote: »

Holland is just so much more organised than here, there's not even any point making a comparison!

Yeah, I know, I love this place but sometimes I just wish they'd outsource the running of it to someone who knows what they're doing

Calibos

Alun wrote: »

Yeah, I know, I love this place but sometimes I just wish they'd outsource the running of it to someone who knows what they're doing

Which way did you vote on Lisbon Alun

As for the lone Objector, She's on someones payroll. I mean she's not wrong in a lot of her objections to the current plan but it still rubs me the wrong way, someone 50km away objecting to something in my town.

Maybe she's the significant other of a Dundrum Town Centre developer

Could even be a proxy for the Greens. Talkin to a Green Councilor the other day and although they have been the ones objecting so far, they are not in principle opposed to the scheme. They were however against the original first draft plan that was the developers dictating what they were going to do and had the approval of all the other parties in the council. If FF and FG had their way back then, we'd be getting a lot less from the developers. It was the greens that got the plans altered with the flood defence schemes and amenity areas and access roads etc. Gotta give them props for that even though I think most of them are insufferable eejits.

Maybe the greens didn't want to appear anti Bray development by objecting yet again, even though they are only doing it to get more for Bray from the greedy developers, the public might not see it that way. So they finance a proxy objector from Sutton instead??? Something to think about.

Alun

Calibos wrote: »

Which way did you vote on Lisbon Alun

I didn't, or rather I wasn't allowed to seeing as I'm a feelthy johnny foreigner:D But if I could have, I'd have voted a resounding yes, as it happens.

One major difference between here and the Netherlands in regard to this subject is that there they have proper, effective local government. Mind you, one of the reasons for this is that they don't have the system we have here of having MP's with their own constituencies, you just vote for a party and the MP's are then picked off a list in descending order according to their % of the vote. That way, MP's do what they're actually supposed to do, i.e. look after national affairs, and you don't get them meddling in what are essentially local matters like what happens here. As a result, local government is more effective, has real power, and real budgets, and therefore also attracts a more professional and motivated type of person to the job.

Eoin

Let that be the end of the Lisbon discussion here please

and76

Wonder with all the news about flooding at the moment will they rethink the development - at least its highlighted how important that flood relief work is.
Back in 86 hurricane charlie flood,most of the lower dargle was completely submerged with waters rising up to mantelpiece level in most houses

boggerboy

and76 wrote: »

Wonder with all the news about flooding at the moment will they rethink the development - at least its highlighted how important that flood relief work is.
Back in 86 hurricane charlie flood,most of the lower dargle was completely submerged with waters rising up to mantelpiece level in most houses

Mr Gormley recently announced (in the last week) that he wanted to put an end to building on flood plains. I wonder does this include developments such as this that have already received planning permission???
I lived in a house that was flooded in hurricane Charlie (approx 4 feet of water) and still live in the same area-It looked very bad at one point last sat until thankfully the rain stopped. Building further down the river on a floodplain would have negative consequences in future times.
I am not suggesting stopping the development, just restriciting it to the higher parts of the golf course which are not part of the flood plain- I am sure there is plenty of room. after all, they are hardly going to build the original amount of apartments in the current climate, are they?

worded

Does Bray have a decent swimming pool (not a members small gym one) for such a "huge" population? Opportunity lost not to place one in the development me thinks.

Will this ever get off the ground in the current economic climate?