Munster Signings???

bamboozle

any word on the grapevine? thought they'd have a few players lined up to build on last season plus they should have plenty of money.

Keith Earls will probably get a good bit of magner's game time this year.

Peter B

I haven't heard anything except Mike Prendergast is coming back to take up the 3rd scrum half position.

Posted June 27th on Munsterfans

MUNSTER

In

Mike Prendergast (Harlequins).

Out

Sean Cronin (Connacht), Shaun Payne (retired — replaces Gerry Holand as team manager), Antony Foley, John Kelly (both retired), Mossie Lawlor, Eugene McGovern, Gerry Hurley (all released).

Not sure there has been any news since. Looks like we're losing a lot more players then we're getting. I did hear we have a back row signing in the pipeline to take over from Foley. This is vital with John O'Sullivan prone to injuries and Leamy out til Christmas.

Hansel

Munster aren't close to any major signings at the moment. They're obviously in discussions with people, but will not be making a signing for the sake of making a signing. Some are hoping that John O'Sullivan will stay fit. He's very highly rated and it's believed that he'll play for Ireland if he gets a good year of rugby under his belt.
There's also talks going on with Axel to coax him out of retirement until Christmas.

zAbbo

I don't know much about O'Sullivan, but a 28 year old who has played 72minutes last season, and only a total of 19 starts in 4 years isn't good.

flyingoutside

I think J Collins was the back rower thery were trying to coax

zAbbo

Would they have the budget for someone of that quality?

In fairness, Jerry was never going to sign for Munster.

It's a shame, but someone like Neil Best or Roger Wilson would have made good signings, instead they're shipped off to Northampton.

Some short term cover would be good, haven't heard any names linked.

flyingoutside

zAbbo wrote: »

Would they have the budget for someone of that quality?

In fairness, Jerry was never going to sign for Munster.

It's a shame, but someone like Neil Best or Roger Wilson would have made good signings, instead they're shipped off to Northampton.

Some short term cover would be good, haven't heard any names linked.

Best would have been good if they could keep him at top form

phog

Collins was never an option from a Munster point of view - he or his agent mentioned it I suppose to help increase his wage packet with whoever he was really doing the talking to - a bot like our own BOD.

EdgarAllenPoo

They really missed the boat by not using Mossie Lawlor more.

Nukem

zAbbo wrote: »

It's a shame, but someone like Neil Best or Roger Wilson would have made good signings, instead they're shipped off to Northampton.

Good point,little late though with Leamy announcing he is screwed til mid season.
How come there isn't more inter provincial shuffling? I know Munster export a lot of players but the buy in very little (exceptions, Lewis, Warrick, Flannery). There are some handy backs coming through the ranks in other provinces

jdivision

zAbbo wrote: »

I don't know much about O'Sullivan, but a 28 year old who has played 72minutes last season, and only a total of 19 starts in 4 years isn't good.

Any time I've seen him play he's been very impressive, hard to get a start ahead of four Irish internationals.

[Jackass]

I think Earls will be a big player for Munster this season although I don't know if he'd be able to displace Mafi or Tipoki just yet. Munster made most of their big signings last season though.

Collins would have been a great signing, Best would have been good also and Ferris was available for a period too, but is staying with Ulster.

I think they need at least one big signing in the backrow. Maybe they should have held on to Keogh for the depth....seems bizare that they got rid of him, but then signed Ronan who is a weaker player imo.

razorblunt

I dont agree with the point made about Mossie Lawlor, he was given plenty of oppurtunity in many different positions although recently it looks like the injuries have caught up with him.

RuggieBear

mossie lawlor is a decent player. too good for the AIL but not good enough for proper ML or HEC matches.

Amazotheamazing

razorblunt wrote: »

I dont agree with the point made about Mossie Lawlor, he was given plenty of oppurtunity in many different positions although recently it looks like the injuries have caught up with him.

I dunno, Mossie was primarily a centre and he got very few runs there, so he swapped to fullback/wing and got a handful of runs. Never really made the most of him imo, it was clear Kidney wanted him to leave when Kidney embarrassed him by playing him at outhalf. Mossie doesn't even play outhalf for Shannon, there was absolutely no logic behind Kidney playing him there.

castie

No coach goes out to embarrase a player by putting him in a key position. Thats just ridiculous.

mousey007

i heard there's a backrow from australia on the way but havent heard who it is

Hansel

mousey007 wrote: »

i heard there's a backrow from australia on the way but havent heard who it is

Some 2nd hand information informs me that Nick Williams has signed.

JWAD

Hansel wrote: »

Some 2nd hand information informs me that Nick Williams has signed.

That rumour is hardly new, now is it?

Hansel

JWAD wrote: »

That rumour is hardly new, now is it?

Maybe I should be more specific then. The 2nd hand info is from an impeccable source. He HAS signed. So yes, it IS news.

[Jackass]

Another NZ boyo, he's got some big boots to fill!!

JWAD

If Munster are such an allegedly rugby mad province, why all these non-Irish qualified signings????
Its getting stupid at this rate and will have implications on the player pool for the national in no time at all.
Same goes for the other provinces too, of course.

toomevara

JWAD wrote: »

If Munster are such an allegedly rugby mad province, why all these non-Irish qualified signings????
Its getting stupid at this rate and will have implications on the player pool for the national in no time at all.
Same goes for the other provinces too, of course.

Welcome to rugby's brave new world I guess....Absolutely agree with your sentiment, but it seems that to compete at the top in Europe, and go toe to toe with clubs with deep pockets like Toulouse/ Wasps/ Leicester / Stade Francais all themselves stacked with foreign talent despite having rugby academy systems which can only be dreamt of in Ireland...the importation of quick fix talent seems to be the only M.O these days...

Short termist..yes, damaging to Irish rugby..undoubtedly...but I think, the way union is going in this part of the world, the club game will soon come to outshine the international, much as in soccer....

Hansel

toomevara wrote: »

Welcome to rugby's brave new world I guess....Absolutely agree with your sentiment, but it seems that to compete at the top in Europe, and go toe to toe with clubs with deep pockets like Toulouse/ Wasps/ Leicester / Stade Francais all themselves stacked with foreign talent despite having rugby academy systems which can only be dreamt of in Ireland...the importation of quick fix talent seems to be the only M.O these days...

Short termist..yes, damaging to Irish rugby..undoubtedly...but I think, the way union is going in this part of the world, the club game will soon come to outshine the international, much as in soccer....

It's getting bad alright, and it's going to get worse too. We're already speaking to another kiwi about joining for 09/10 season, which is ridiculous. I would hope that we're also putting as much effort into long term development of local talent. Soon, Munster will only be Munster in name. It'll be chock a block full of imports. Same goes for Leinster and Ulster. It's a sad state of affairs. It'll take away quite a bit of my enjoyment of supporting the province, if there's more foreigners than Irish lads.

RuggieBear

it's all about winning.

winning gets the supporters/sponsors...winning gets the money.

at the end of the day people really won't give two ****s about where the players come from as long as they win.:(

Hansel

RuggieBear wrote: »

it's all about winning.

winning gets the supporters/sponsors...winning gets the money.

at the end of the day people really won't give two ****s about where the players come from as long as they win.:(

You are of course correct. It's all about results these days. It's still a shame though, I don't like the way that professional rugby is going to be honest. If it ever gets to the stage where we're like a Man Utd or Arsenal, full of imports, I'll give up following the professional game and stick with the AIL only.

RuggieBear

Hansel wrote: »

You are of course correct. It's all about results these days. It's still a shame though, I don't like the way that professional rugby is going to be honest. If it ever gets to the stage where we're like a Man Utd or Arsenal, full of imports, I'll give up following the professional game and stick with the AIL only.

But the AIL is almost as bad...I left my club when they started using my sub money to pay for South African Mercenaries here for a season at most. Then the players brought thru the youth system expected to be paid and they all left when the club refused and basically the club was destroyed from the community side of things.

Anyway i digress...

Hansel

ok, getting back on topic, anybody know anything about this Nick Williams lad? I don't watch the Average-14's at all.

Amazotheamazing

I don't think it's really fair to say Munster is overrun with foreign players. Pretty much the entire pack that won both HEC's were born within Munster, Puc being the obvious exception.

In the backs they have exported a fair few scrumhalves, it's the outside backs where things get seriously dodgy, with very few home grown centres of the pro era, except for Barry Murphy, who is horribly injury prone. I guess Earls will come through next season (possibly most talented young centre in Ireland?), Dowling and Lewis are imports from Leinster, but are at least Irish, Payne was Irish qualified. So you're left with Mafi, Tipoki and Howlett. Hardly inundated with outsiders.

Williams hasn't been capped by NZ afaik, so maybe he'll be a worthwhile poach or is he already qualified? we need a back-up 8 considering how poorly Heaslip is adjusting to international rugby and Leamy's injury. Wilson is too much of a fits and starts player to be a regular international imo.

hefty_langer

PRESS RELEASE from Munster Rugby

For immediate release: Wednesday 30th July 2008
Issued on behalf of Munster Rugby
Munster today announced that Blues number 8 Nick Williams will join their squad later in the year subject to the usual medical clearance and his obtaining a work permit.

Samoan born Williams (24) played in 12 of the Blues 13 Super 14 games this season scoring tries against The Lions in Ellis Park and the Crusaders in Christchurch

Williams is expected to arrive in November.

---

And here is what we can expect in November, only 24 btw!!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Qh86uNQp5mo

[Jackass]

hefty_langer wrote: »

And here is what we can expect in November, only 24 btw!!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Qh86uNQp5mo

Great hit.

I'm sure he'll be quality. I think it's got to the stage now where the pulling power of the NH means the likes of Leinster, Munster and even Ulster can attract big name SH players, so at the moment we're really taking our pick of the bunch. If NZ and/or Oz change their selection policy of only home contracted talent in the national side, the flood gates would open. And the way things are going, they might have to depending on hpw they fair in the next world cup. (McCaw for Leinster anyone? )

But when you look at CJ Van Der Linde, Howlett, Rocky, Contepomi...these are some of the biggest names in world rugby playing here. Then you've got the likes of Tipoki, Mafi and Naewaca who are all great players in their own right also. And this Williams guy will no doubt be a class act too. (Although not widley recognised, Stan Wright has been an absolutley massive player for Leinster too)

Sure even with Botha at Ulster, it means that 2 of the 3 front rows that started the world cup final and won it a couple of years ago now play in Ireland. Madness.

I think you can have a balance of foreign talent and home grown talent.

At the moment I think it's acceptable. Once you start to see more foreigners than Irish in any provincial side I think we need to stop bringing in any more signings.

In a match day 22, Leinster could have 6:
CJ Van D L, Wright, Rocky, Naewaca, Contepomi & Whitaker.

Munster could have 5:
Pucherelli, Williams, Mafi, Howlett, Tipoki

I think 5 or 6 is enough, but I don't think there should be any foreign squad players. I think if you bring in an overseas player he has to be top quality and keep the numbers down. There's no point having a guy there that we have produced just as good ourselves in the squad or he's just blocking development.

(I think Leinster are failing miserably to develop a scrum half and not doing great in the prop department, although maybe the talent hasn't been there to begin with, but the academy is bulging with props now so they are certainly trying to rectify the problem, but O'Donoghue should be in the senior squad as 2nd choice scrum-half this year, instead he's 4th choice - not even in the senior squad and we even signed a scrum-half.) Edit: just to say I know Cian Healey is an exception to the prop rule at Leinster, but I actually see him going in as Bernard Jackmans natural replacement at hooker. And I think he would possibly be one of the best hookers in the world, he has it all for that position - pending he can throw.

Plus you have to off-set this with the talent that goes abroad..Leinster lost the likes of Bob Casey and in the day Trevor Brennan and Munster have lost the likes of Reddan and in the day Keith Wood.

But those are big name players, there are more than a handfull of Irish players abroad who would be at very least on the fringe of their provincial side here if they came back. Look at O'Driscoll at Munster..

Danger_Dave

I acutally feel both teams are both 2/3 players what is over the acceptable amount of foreign players in the squad. Why the hell is Naewaca in the leinster squad ?!? He's not needed. However this seems to be the way for rugby at present. I just hope the provinces decide to put a cap on foreign players in squads in the future.

[Jackass]

True, he certainly isn't essential to Leinster as there are plenty of quality backs already the competition for places is immense, especially considering Hickies early retirment and also if maybe Geordan Murphy was kept at home at Leinster, then Naewaca wouldn't be there, who knows?

Hansel

It's spelt Nacewa, and pronounced Nathewa, and judgding by what I've heard of him so far, he's seriously impressing in training and will be impossible to leave out of the starting IV.

Amazotheamazing

Danger_Dave wrote: »

I acutally feel both teams are both 2/3 players what is over the acceptable amount of foreign players in the squad. Why the hell is Naewaca in the leinster squad ?!? He's not needed. However this seems to be the way for rugby at present. I just hope the provinces decide to put a cap on foreign players in squads in the future.

The provinces are already capped at 6 foreign players (in theory at any rate), the head of the Leinster branch tried to get the IRFU to remove the cap last year, iirc.

Would hate to on an academy contract (in Leinster particularly) at the minute. Despite dominating the underage for the last few years, very few forwards are being promoted from the Leinster academy.

In some ways it's worse in Munster, but at least there for the most part you'd be pushing to get past established homegrown players. I see (Garryowen's) Damien Varley is supposed to be on trial with Wasps, hope he makes it, reckon he has the goods to play pro rugby. Always wondered why he didn't get more of a run with Munster.

toomevara

Hansel wrote: »

and will be impossible to leave out of the starting IV.

Hmmmm, interesting... tell me more of this new four man game of which you speak...sounds intriguing, may have to shorten the pitch a bit though...;)

Hansel

toomevara wrote: »

Hmmmm, interesting... tell me more of this new four man game of which you speak...sounds intriguing, may have to shorten the pitch a bit though...;)

:DOh Dear. Further evidence that I just don't function well in the morning.

[Jackass]

Yeah from what I've read he was the stand out back of the Super 14s also..that's with the likes of Habanna et al playing, so he is a really exciting player, I just meant not essential as in there are plenty players there, but he certainly is raising the bar, I hope he has a massive impact. Time will tell, but I think Leinster have been very shrewed with their summer signings...look at what it did for Munster last season? 3 signings in key positions and they were a completley different team. The only place I think we lack a bit of punch is in the second row, but it's a very competetive second row on the pitch none the less and functions very well at line out time.

Hansel

[Jackass] wrote: »

Yeah from what I've read he was the stand out back of the Super 14s also..that's with the likes of Habanna et al playing, so he is a really exciting player, I just meant not essential as in there are plenty players there, but he certainly is raising the bar, I hope he has a massive impact. Time will tell, but I think Leinster have been very shrewed with their summer signings...look at what it did for Munster last season? 3 signings in key positions and they were a completley different team. The only place I think we lack a bit of punch is in the second row, but it's a very competetive second row on the pitch none the less and functions very well at line out time.

You should also be concerned about Scrumhalf.

Danger_Dave

toomevara wrote: »

Hmmmm, interesting... tell me more of this new four man game of which you speak...sounds intriguing, may have to shorten the pitch a bit though...;)

That made me laugh . I have no problem in theory with all the signings, they are making leinster a much stronger team, its just the way in which its being implemented with quick signings rather than development.

P.S Just realized Im turning into a typical Leinster fan, i go into a Munster signings thread and talk about Leinster

[Jackass]

Hansel wrote: »

You should also be concerned about Scrumhalf.

I don't think so. Last season I'd agree, as we had to re-sign Easterby (:eek:) but it showed the massive impact Whitaker has that we were not the same team without him and went out of the Heineken cup, yet (open to correction) we won every game in the entire season that he played in. He's a world cup winner and still top quality imho. As back up I think Chris Keane is a decent player..not top class by any stretch of the imagination, and the new signing of Keogh will be an interesting one, did very well in GP so good to have him back, but the ace in the pack is O'Donoghue, scrum-half for the Irish U-21 grand slam winners and is really highly rated. I'm amazed he isn't in the senior squad this season (still only 19 or 20) and that we signed a scrum half, cause this guy imo will be the next "stringer" in nailing down the green number 9 jersey for years. I think there is plenty of depth there and with Whitaker at least, some top quality.

The thing that surprises me the most is that O'Donoghue wasn't seond choice this year instead of 4th choice as Whitaker will probably reitre after this season.

Danger_Dave wrote:

That made me laugh . I have no problem in theory with all the signings, they are making leinster a much stronger team, its just the way in which its being implemented with quick signings rather than development.

P.S Just realized Im turning into a typical Leinster fan, i go into a Munster signings thread and talk about Leinster

Ah don't worry, many a Leinster thread has turned into discussion about Munster.

pucan

[Jackass] wrote: »

Yeah from what I've read he was the stand out back of the Super 14s also..that's with the likes of Habanna et al playing, so he is a really exciting player, I just meant not essential as in there are plenty players there, but he certainly is raising the bar, I hope he has a massive impact.

He wasn't the Blues best back, never mind back of the tournament.
Don't get me wrong, the guy is good. And his versatility makes him a coaches dream.

Bounty Hunter

class, this is the first ive heard of this and Nick William has really impressed me any time ive seen him play. its really the only position weve needed re-inforcements for too what with Foleys retirement, Wallace aging and along with Leamy and Quinlan being quite injury prone.

great signing

mousey007

ive seen a lot of clips of williams online and he's definitely the real deal

Heroditas

[quote='[Jackass][......]
In a match day 22, Leinster could have 6:
CJ Van D L, Wright, Rocky, Naewaca, Contepomi & Whitaker.

Munster could have 5:
Pucherelli, Williams, Mafi, Howlett, Tipoki

[........][/quote]


You can also add Paul Warwick to that list.
Is Paringatai (sp) still on the books or was he only signed for one season?

Hansel

Heroditas wrote: »

Is Paringatai (sp) still on the books or was he only signed for one season?

He's gone. Currently playing in Japan, I think.