Dangerous Busses

irishmotorist

Just wondering how everybody generally finds their dealings with busses? Do you often feel squeezed or intimidated by them?

I've noticed on several occasions recently that if a bus is too close to me, then it's 90% likely to be from a particular company - a commuter coach company rather than a strictly urban. I had one last night where it passed within 6 inches of my arm - me doing about 40kmh and him flying past me. I just sent the following to the company in a feedback form.


Hi,
I wish to draw your attention to something that has given me cause for concern on several occasions.

I cycle from home to work and am therefore sharing a bus lane with busses and taxis for large parts of my journey. On several occasions I have had 'near misses' with busses whereby they overtake me giving me an inadaquate berth. Unfortunately I generally find xxxxxx coaches to be the most likely offenders in this manner. The most recent example was yesterday evening when I was passed by a xxxxxx bus and there was less than 6 inches between my shoulder/elbow and the bus. This is dangerous driving behaviour and will result in serious injury or death to a cyclist if it hasn't happened already.

I ask that your drivers are made aware of the vulnerability of cyclists and given the following information that they may not be aware of or think of.

1. When overtaking a cyclist in a bus lane, a cyclist has the same rights as any other vehicle that is legally using the bus lane and should be overtaken with due care.

2. When overtaking a cyclist in a bus lane, it is my opinion that there should be no problem with the bus slowing for the few seconds that it will take for a gap in the traffic lane so that a save overtaking maneouver can be executed. Modern busses can quickly accelerate back up to their previous speed so time lost behind a cyclist will typically be negligible.

3. N.B. Drivers of large vehicles are possibly not aware of the wind dynamic that surrounds the vehicle that they are driving. Most will be aware of the 'slipstream' effect that occurs behind the bus, but many may not be aware of the 'punch' affect that happens at the front of the bus. When a bus, travelling at even moderate speed, passes a cyclist with even a few feet of a berth, the wind current that seems to surround the front of the bus causes a pushing effect on the cyclist which then requires corrective action. I would consider myself a relatively strong cyclist, but particularly when the berth that I am given is woefully inadaquate, I am at great risk of being pushed into a kerb and off the bike, or into another lane where there may be other vehicles.

I just request that your drivers are made aware of this issue and recognise the vulnerability of a cyclist versus the time it takes to overtake safely.

Regards.

paddyb

generally, I find that dublin bus drivers are ok to cyclists. its the other bus/truck drivers that are the dangerous one

omri

I had some problems with dublinbus last year. They've been going too close to me and too fast. And when I had talk with few of them ( I suppose I wasn't to nice to them, but hey the only thing that really protects me is a helmet) and after that they tried to push me off the cycling lane in truly outrageous way, probably just to show me whos the boss. I talked to gardai after and only thing they said is to go to local police station (depending on the area) and file a complaint so they can forward it to DB.

tunney

Emmm if I was sending that letter, I'd have spelt "bus" correctly

mikemac

irishmotorist wrote: »

Hi,
I wish to draw your attention to something that has given me cause for concern on several occasions.

Who complains by email FFS, even if gave a feedback form :rolleyes:
Write a letter, it'll be taken far more seriously.

"several occasions" is useless tbh.
You need dates, times and locations. Otherwise you could be referring to something that happened months ago.
The company can tie your incidents to a schedule if you give more information. Help them to help you.

This post seems harsh, it's not meant to be.
And in three years of cycling and motorbiking I've never had an incident with Dublin Bus or any other bus. Not bad considering I'm in the bus lane most days (and not supposed to be ). Dublin bus drivers do advanced courses and are trained to a far higher standard than most road users

Hungrycol

Funny I had this conversation with Mrs HungryCol last night when I was saying that I thought the most courteous drivers on the road when it comes to cyclists are truck drivers with the exception of those rubble truck drivers (they welly it at every opportunity). Dublin Bus are grand except for the times they go too fast for me hang onto their slipstream :eek:. I think coach drivers forget their size when overtaking a cyclist and pull in too early.

irishmotorist

micmclo wrote: »

Who complains by email FFS, even if gave a feedback form :rolleyes:
Write a letter, it'll be taken far more seriously.

"several occasions" is useless tbh.
You need dates, times and locations. Otherwise you could be referring to something that happened months ago.
The company can tie your incidents to a schedule if you give more information. Help them to help you.

This post seems harsh, it's not meant to be.
And in three years of cycling and motorbiking I've never had an incident with Dublin Bus or any other bus. Not bad considering I'm in the bus lane most days (and not supposed to be ). Dublin bus drivers do advanced courses and are trained to a far higher standard than most road users

I'm happy to send a feedback form notice for now - that's what it's there for. I'd be hoping for some acknowledgement at least but I'll be following it up if there isn't.

I don't agree that 'several occasions' is useless. I'm not trying to get particular drivers in trouble, I'm trying to make them more aware in general as it seems to be a general trend with this company - imo.

I do find that Dublin Bus drivers to be about the best to be cycling around. They will wait behind you till it's safe and will only very rarely attempt a kamikaze overtake and throw the anchors out to stop at a stop a few metres ahead.

tunney wrote: »

Emmm if I was sending that letter, I'd have spelt "bus" correctly

Are you talking about busses? I was thinking about that and was just too lazy to check if it was right or not.

blorg

99% of bus drivers (Dublin Bus and otherwise) are fine and courteous. However I have had experience of Dublin Bus drivers overtaking very close and then literally turning into me when I have been in the bus lane on the N11 (between Stillorgan and Fosters Avenue, where the cycle lane is unusable.) Having caught up with one, he confirmed that he did it deliberately to "teach me a lesson." I know I am not the only person to have experienced this.

Hungrycol- I share your view of construction vehicles, they drive very dangerously on average in my experience, passing too close, etc.

irishmotorist- are you referring to Aircoach by any chance?

paddyb

they do respond to complaints and deal with them. Ive done it a few times and they have always got back to me and followed up as well.

niceonetom

first, i'd say that such a politely worded email is likely to have zero effect of the driving behaviour of bus drivers. without quoting specific registrations, times etc. no one will feel they are the ones at fault.

i find that a point like this is best made loudly and in person.

second, how close to the curb are you cycling? if you ride close to the curb you are effectively sending the message that there is always room to overtake you, and hey mr. busdriver sir, don't even bother to move over in the lane or slow down. just plough right through.

i cycle the quays in both directions everyday and i know that buses treat you with more respect (begrudging as it may be) when you behave like a vehicle. if there's no room to overtake, make that decision for him; if there is let him by. we're all going to meet up at the next red anyway.

the vast majority of dublin bus drivers are fine, it is the bus eireann and private coaches that you need to be more forceful with.

unionman

blorg wrote: »

99% of bus drivers (Dublin Bus and otherwise) are fine and courteous. However I have had experience of Dublin Bus drivers overtaking very close and then literally turning into me when I have been in the bus lane on the N11 (between Stillorgan and Fosters Avenue, where the cycle lane is unusable.) Having caught up with one, he confirmed that he did it deliberately to "teach me a lesson." I know I am not the only person to have experienced this.

Very similar to an experience I had last winter. The same phrase 'teach me a lesson' when I confronted the driver, it absolutley scared the beejeesus out of me. For a while I nearly scrapped the bike, it really gave me the fear. I resent the fact that this particualr driver would gain great satisfaction from knowing how I reacted, but I'm going to have to assume he won't be reading this thread (:p)

But yes, 99% of DB drivers are grand, my own feeling is that the training is more thorough. Private coaches and Tour buses are very different. I had a tour bus tail me yesterday beeping his horn. I was avoiding a major pothole on John's Road, doing about 40kph, and stationery traffic ahead of us at the lights. He was just being an a***ole.

There is another private coach firm whose drivers routinely ignore cyclists, and it is interesting to see the same company vehicles take stupid risks over and over again. Red lights and pedestrians are of only minor interest to the same drivers. I should point out that their behaviour is specific to the stretch of road from Islandbridge to the N7 via Inchicore Road. There is a fatal accident waiting to happen.

The OPs letter is unlikely to have much effect (sorry OP, don't mean to be harsh). Specific reported incidents, in a letter, with a call to Trafficwatch / local Gards to back it up would have an effect over time, on a cumulative basis. The MD of the bus company will quickly tire of repeated reports through official channels, it interferes with his business. Eventually he may be inclined to issue guidelines to his drivers on appropriate road behaviour regarding cyclists.

irishmotorist

blorg wrote: »

irishmotorist- are you referring to Aircoach by any chance?

I don't want to go tarnishing anybody in public, but just say that the buses have JJ as part of the name emblazoned on the back...

markpb

Like everyone else, I find 99% of DB drivers are great. A few will, accidentally or otherwise, misjudge the time it takes to overtake pull in immediately after but I'll give them the benefit of the doubt. Aircoach drivers (most of them) and JJ Mathews drivers (quite a few of them) are very pushy and some are downright dangerous.

TinyExplosions

irishmotorist wrote: »

I don't want to go tarnishing anybody in public, but just say that the buses have JJ as part of the name emblazoned on the back...

Tarnish away -it's t'internet, land of conjecture and complaining!

unionman

irishmotorist wrote: »

I don't want to go tarnishing anybody in public, but just say that the buses have JJ as part of the name emblazoned on the back...

Kavanagh. I knew it. Same people I was referring to.

irishmotorist

niceonetom wrote: »

second, how close to the curb are you cycling? if you ride close to the curb you are effectively sending the message that there is always room to overtake you, and hey mr. busdriver sir, don't even bother to move over in the lane or slow down. just plough right through.

I'd always give myself a good bit of space from the kerb - at least a meter and more when I'm going at speed. The driving lane beside the bus lane had free moving traffic in it, so there would have been no problem for him to have moved into that lane partly as part of his overtaking move if he so wished.

When I caught up with him at the lights he wasn't paying any attention to me in his mirrors which makes me think it was just a bit of negligence, rather than the 'teach me a lesson' type.

Malari

unionman wrote: »

Very similar to an experience I had last winter. The same phrase 'teach me a lesson' when I confronted the driver, it absolutley scared the beejeesus out of me.

And what is this "lesson" they speak of? Not to cycle??

unionman

Malari wrote: »

And what is this "lesson" they speak of? Not to cycle??

In this instance, the 'lesson' was to use the cycle path provided, regardless.

tracto

blorg wrote: »

However I have had experience of Dublin Bus drivers overtaking very close and then literally turning into me when I have been in the bus lane on the N11 (between Stillorgan and Fosters Avenue, where the cycle lane is unusable.) Having caught up with one, he confirmed that he did it deliberately to "teach me a lesson." I know I am not the only person to have experienced this.

Had the a similiar experience on that exact stretch of road as well, bus driver pulled right up behind beeping his horn, then pulled alongside me opened his door and shouted some sort of abuse at me before pulling ahead and slowing down to about 10km/hr and forcing me onto the cycling path (which is far more dangerous than the bus lane). I could understand is to a certain extent if it was mid week rush hour traffic and he couldnt just over take me but it was a sunday morning and he wasnt even in service. I guess theres @ssholes in every walk of life.

Bartronilic

Once on the morehampton road (i think, it is the wide road that leads to Donnybrook?) I saw a person get knocked over by the bus mirror.

311

*This is a drivers perspective of a problem with dublin bus.*
Something I've noticed with some Dublin bus drivers lately is ,on some roads where there are mini ramp clusters of 4 or so. The drivers seem to drive around these ramps and on occasion drive on the opposite side of the road.

They've caused me to almost merge the pavement as I've come around corners. They can't simply correct there path like a car ,I think some of them think they are on top gear.:mad:

monument

I have to echo the 99% of DB drivers being fine. Most are better than other bus drivers.

But the closest call I've ever had is with a DB pulling in when I was half way along the bus at this junction along the northern quays just before the Four Courts.

I'm guessing the bus driver (a) did not see me at all, or (b) under estimated how fast a bicycle can go and thought he was going fast enough to over take me and pull in to the stop.

He said he seen me, but he was about to knock me off the bike before I started banging on the window of the side of the bus. It really was a close call. A few seconds more of him pulling in and I would have been off the bike and likely under the bus. He on the other hand was very concerned that I was frighting the passengers.

I cycled away, but was still in shock and a bit closer to work I hit one of those bollards on the cycle track in the Docklands, off the bike for two or so weeks.

SerialComplaint

monument wrote: »

I'm guessing the bus driver [...] (b) under estimated how fast a bicycle can go and thought he was going fast enough to over take me and pull in to the stop.

This happens to me semi-frequently, with cars and particularly buses and coaches. I guess I cycle faster than the average cyclist, and the driver just assumes that they'll be able to overtake, and ends up cutting me off.