Stage 2 for third sec, dept of foreign affairs

alton

Got the second stage of the selection process for third sec in dept of foreign affairs coming up - anyone been through it and have tips?

Know what sort of scenario will be faced in the group exercise and what they expect of you?

Any advice appreciated...

litup

I would also love any insights people may have into stage 2.

Specifically, do you need to have something prepared in advance for the written exercise?

RoseBlossom

I know it sounds obvious, but in the Group Exercise they are looking for good team players...and a good team. It's important to go into the exercise aware that although you are technically competing against the others in the group, you are really, as a group, competing against other groups. You need to work with your team mates and do your best to solve the problem by meeting all the requirements of the task. Absolutely dominating the conversation will be as useful as not saying anything at all in terms progressing to the next round. Make useful contributions and listen to others. Stick to the instructions given (e.g. pay attention to the clock).

What information were you given about the written exercise? It may have changed from previous competitions (in which you didn't have to prepare anything in advance).

litup

Thanks for the reply RoseBlossom. The instructions for the written exercise are as follows:

For the written exercise you will be asked to produce a written piece of text. This text will be a focussed briefing note, which is a summary of key issues within an area. This note will relate to a specific topic (which will be given on the day) within one of the strategic priority areas set out in the Statement of Strategy of the Department of Foreign Affairs.

These areas are:

• Anglo Irish relations
• Development Aid
• Foreign and Security Policy
• European Union
• Promotion of Ireland Abroad

You may choose which one of the listed topics to write about. You will have 45 minutes in which to do this. It is not permissible to bring notes into the room where the exercise is administered. The text must take the form of a continuous narrative (as opposed to bullet points) and must be handwritten. The document should be approximately 300 words in length.

What confuses me is that it says it will be on a specific topic, but then goes on to say you can choose which topic to write about. Any ideas?

RoseBlossom

On the face of it it sounds different to the last few competitions where the written exercise was a summarising exercise, but maybe it's not.

Perhaps what they mean is that they will give you, say one topic under each heading, and you can choose which one of these to do, rather than you coming in prepared to regurgitate one fab pre-prepared essay under each heading. (This is pure speculation by the way!)

Perhaps you could check with Publicjobs as to whether you have to prepare the briefing from background material supplied on the day - it would seem to make more sense and would mirror reality a bit more closely. You could be given 10 pages of "briefing" and asked to summarise it for a particular reader.

To be honest, I would be surprised if you were just handed a pad of paper and told to write an essay with no supporting information, however that's not to say that mightn't be what is planned! It could help differentiate people with a real interest in the work from people who have thrown their hat in on a whim...

litup

Thanks for the reply RoseBlossom. The wording is just a bit ambiguous and I don't want to be surprised on the day. To make things more confusing the wording is slightly different to the preparation booklet we were given on the day of the first round!

It does seem a bit silly if you are just asked to write out a learned off essay - anyone could write that for you!

White-Teeth

I don't mean to hijack your thread, but I'm wondering if anyone can tell me how long it took after your test to get your results? Also, what is the time period between the test results and stage two? And finally, how many stages are there in total?

Thanks for your help.

gary the great

Was this the job that was advertised as a Junior Diplomat and you had to take a really easy exam on foreign affairs at the initial job application stage?

Euro_Kraut

White-Teeth wrote: »

I don't mean to hijack your thread, but I'm wondering if anyone can tell me how long it took after your test to get your results? Also, what is the time period between the test results and stage two? And finally, how many stages are there in total?

Thanks for your help.

1. About 4 weeks

2. About 3 weeks

3. Er, 3 I guess.

Euro_Kraut

gary the great wrote: »

Was this the job that was advertised as a Junior Diplomat and you had to take a really easy exam on foreign affairs at the initial job application stage?

Yes it is Junior Diplomat, but there was no initial test on foreign affairs. There was the regular Civil Service entry tests - Maths, Literacy and Job Simulation.

litup

Euro_Kraut wrote: »

Yes it is Junior Diplomat, but there was no initial test on foreign affairs. There was the regular Civil Service entry tests - Maths, Literacy and Job Simulation.

There was also an online quiz with about 10 questions on current affairs etc. It was not a requirement to pass but you had to complete the quiz before you could apply. I thnk if you got less than 8 out of 10 you were told that the role may not suit you.

Euro_Kraut

litup wrote: »

There was also an online quiz with about 10 questions on current affairs etc. It was not a requirement to pass but you had to complete the quiz before you could apply. I thnk if you got less than 8 out of 10 you were told that the role may not suit you.

Really? I didnt see that. Was never asked to do any test definitely.

litup

Euro_Kraut wrote: »

Really? I didnt see that. Was never asked to do any test definitely.

Did you apply online? There was a seperate link for the Third Sec role which brought you to the quiz. Once you completed it you were brought back to the main application form page. I don't think the results are used in the selection process anyway.

raiun

litup wrote: »

Did you apply online? There was a seperate link for the Third Sec role which brought you to the quiz. Once you completed it you were brought back to the main application form page. I don't think the results are used in the selection process anyway.

If memory serves there were 2 parts. The first was a 10 part multiple choice quiz, which fedback a score and whether the job would suit you (8 or better, yes, it does, I guess)

The second was rating 20 (?) statements on a 5 point Likert scale (agree/disagree). Intriguingly, however, one was prompted to provide identifiers like name and PPS, perhaps to stop applicants taking it more than once, but it does mean that the scoring could be attributed to applicants at a later stage.

Anyhow, are we any closer to figuring out what the written exercise will look like? I've read the strategy statement and it's a bit thin to base anything on if they are going to ask about a topic within on of the key areas (with the possible exception of Anglo Irish relations (and isn't that British Irish relations now?)).

raiun

Just turned this up on the 2007 campaign:

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/archive/index.php/t-2055082063.html

The thread seems to to be clear that the intructions given in advance of stage 2 in 2007 talked about a document summary exercise, so it looks like we are in for something new. May also explain the refinement of language between handout at stage 1 and material sent with stage 2 invitation - this is something still evolving!

Oh, thread also suggests that most people behave like total idiots in the group exercise... something to look forward to then.

litup

Has anyone else had their stage 2 interview yet? How did you get on?

I had mine this week. Group exercise was ok, and the written wasn't as bad as I thought, I actually had trouble staying under the 350 words.

cuzcco

Well done on the tests.
Was the written exercise a summary of a document they gave you on the day, or just a summary of what you read about DFA policy in your own time?

litup

You are given a choice of 5 different essay titles, one from each of the department's key strategic areas, and have to write 300-350 words.

yerwon

Hey litup,

I'm wondering - would you say the titles were pretty broad or did they focus on really specific topics?

petethebrick

Just as a matter of interest, when is the next intake/ round of exams. It's not too regular from what I've heard. Should I expect to be waiting until next year for the next application process to start? Thanks

yerwon

I'm no expert but I think it would be next year at the earliest.

As I understood it they traditionally only held a compeitition every two or three years but there was definitely a competition last year so that may mean they are changing to yearly recruitment (or it could be a one off).

litup

yerwon - topics are pretty broad, no really specific questions.

petethebrick - The usually run a competition every 2 years, this one is a year early as they had exhausted all of last years panel.

1082229

I completed the second stage yesterday. Apparently there are 4 stages. The Third stage will be in September and that will consisit of an interview on your skills.achievements etc. The fourth stage will be in October and seems to be a chat based on oplicy to check if you are a good fit for the dept. (I.e. no Commies). lol

190 were called to stage 2 so i'd say half that at most would make it to stage 3.

RoseBlossom

litup wrote: »

petethebrick - The usually run a competition every 2 years, this one is a year early as they had exhausted all of last years panel.

Actually, last year's panel wasn't exhausted at all! It was a big surprise when the new competition was announced because so many (relatively speaking) people were still on the panel. I know one of them so I am sure of this!

The downturn could mean that the timeframe for competitions becomes very drawn out - you've to remember that in the good times there would have been a relatively large number of staff leaving for the private sector, being promoted to other expanding departments etc., thus leaving a lot of room for new recruits. It would make sense if that changed and the next panel lasted longer than usual.

White-Teeth

Could anyone who has completed stage two this year give us more detailed feedback? I would like to apply when the next opening comes up.

It seems Stage Two consisted of just writing an essay as opposed to summarizing a document?

litup

RoseBlossom wrote: »

Actually, last year's panel wasn't exhausted at all! It was a big surprise when the new competition was announced because so many (relatively speaking) people were still on the panel. I know one of them so I am sure of this!

I asked on the day and was told they had pretty much exhausted last years panel. Don't know how true it is, but thats what they said.

RoseBlossom wrote: »

The downturn could mean that the timeframe for competitions becomes very drawn out

We were also told this on the day.

White-Teeth wrote: »

It seems Stage Two consisted of just writing an essay as opposed to summarizing a document?

Yep, you were given 5 essay titles and had to choose one. There is also the group exercise, but that is the same as it always was.

RoseBlossom

litup wrote: »

I asked on the day and was told they had pretty much exhausted last years panel. Don't know how true it is, but thats what they said.

I believe you but I'm surprised at that. There are definitely people on the list who haven't been called (I'm not talking about the last one or two, more like +/- 10). Perhaps it is their intention to exhaust it before they start on the new panel but it's a substantial enough number to get through, relatively speaking. Maybe they knew they needed more than that and just decided to get a fresh panel while they were at it, instead of going back to the candidates in the last competition. These things are a mystery at the best of times! I'd say it works out for the benefit of this year's crop anyway!

1082229

Just got the e-mail inviting me to the third stage. Can't believe it. Any one else hear from them yet?

raiun

1082229 wrote: »

Just got the e-mail inviting me to the third stage. Can't believe it. Any one else hear from them yet?

Yep, I'm in.

They say 36 points is the cut off on the Stage 2 scoring. What is that out of? 50 (25 for each part)?

Tim06

am in myself, got 21 in group and 17 in essay so am guessing both out of 25.. any idea how many got through?

alton

Yeah would love to know how many are through to stage 3 if anyone's heard anything?

Also, does anyone know when the optional language test is? And how you sign up for it? And what's involved?!

raiun

Based on what has been said about the 2007 campaign, stage 3 calls about 90 for interview. Post stage 4 there should be about 30 on the panel, but really there will only be about 10 jobs to go round.

No further info yet on the Irish exam - perhaps will issue with candidate prep material to go with questionnaire?

Original info pack said:

Optional Language Test:
There is an optional language test (which shall be competitive) for those candidates who are invited to final interview and who wish to have an assessment made of their ability to communicate effectively in Irish and English. The test will comprise a conversation on ordinary topics and on matters relating to the duties of the position of the Junior Diplomat, to the extent that this may be appropriate. Knowledge of unusual technical terms will not be looked for. Candidates who, as a result of this assessment, satisfy the Public Appointments Service that they are proficient in both Irish and English will be awarded marks in respect of such proficiency.

litup

No email for me I guess they are taking a bit longer with the PFOs...

JD1763

litup wrote: »

No email for me I guess they are taking a bit longer with the PFOs...

Check your spam filter mine was blocked and didnt find out till today

litup

Nope, nothing there unfortunately.

Well done to all those that did make it through, and best of luck with the next round.

1082229

I asked the person managing the campaign how many are going to the next stage and they said its 96 people...

cowsfriend

Hey, just found this post today, I'm thru to the 3rd stage too. Anyone know someone who's been there before? I kinda surprised that they are calling 90 for interview, seems like alot!

raiun

Its been a week since the end of stage 3...

Anyone got an invite to stage 4?

clairee

No word yet - my optimism (what little I had following an awful interview) is dwindling!

JD1763

Haven't heard anything either but given it was the worst interview I've ever had I don't expect to make it to stage 4.

raiun

right, that's me out.

96 interviewed, 65 reached the "required standard". 30 called to next round (that's the panel right there)

In the 65 but not the 30.

It was fun while it lasted.

Good luck to those through.

clairee

Same here

What do you think the chances are of them calling a second group to final interview - I reckon slim to none?

Same time next year so...

raiun

Well, I wouldn't count on it. The 30 called will probably be screwed by the dept of finance anyway - recruitment freeze, anyone?

1082229

Made it to stage 4. You serious that the 30 called will be the panel?

That would be unreal.

I hope we get in before they bring in a recruitment freeze.

alton

I've talked to a few people who still think they'll have to hire at least some people for DFA regardless of the Current Economic Situation... although where they might've taken 20 people in other years it'll obviously be a good bit lower this year..

Anyone else heard anything regarding this? It'd be awful to go through four stages and then realise they're not going to take any of us on!!!

JD1763

Is stage 4 still not competitve though - as in they will cut another % from the 30 with the remainder then forming the panel?

1082229

Just did the fourth stage.
Worst interview ever. Rambled on for 30 minutes.....Just got an e-mail and i'm 25th any one know if that will good enough to be on the panel or what???

dory

What did the 4th stage entail? Was in just the interview? Can you remember the types of questions?
Sorry can't help you on the 25 thing. I'm sure someone here will know.

1082229

dory wrote: »

What did the 4th stage entail? Was in just the interview? Can you remember the types of questions?
Sorry can't help you on the 25 thing. I'm sure someone here will know.

the interview was about you motivation for the job, highlights of your academic/work history and a deep ish discussion on dept policy.

alton

There are 30 people on the panel, just depends really now on how many they are taking in. I'm only speculating, but I doubt the Sec Gen would have gone to the trouble of spending a week and a half interviewing 30 people if he didn't think they were going to be hiring a good proportion of them...

alton

Oh and for anyone who's interested for future competitions I checked what the pass mark is for the Irish test and its 75%