BMW 318 CI ES or 320 CD Sport

foxirl

Hi,
Looking at going to UK soon and have my eye on two cars.

2006 BMW 318 CI ES with 23,000 on clock
or
2005 BMW 320 CD Sport with 21,000 on clock.

Both cars will work out at about 25,000 Euro including VRT but which would you go for and why?

Both have similar sepcs in relation to leather seats, cd player etc

Thanks

milltown

Presuming they are both E46's (the previous model) I'd go for the diesel. I think it'll hold it's value better and suffer less from the fact there's a new shape out. Have a look at how much the 320Cds are listed on Carzone for. They're much rarer than the 318Ci so not as many desperate sellers pushing the prices down.

Ferris

I would only buy the diesel if I was doing over 20k miles a year. I think there's little in the resale unless you plan on putting big miles on the car. Also the 318 is a year younger too which always helps resale. Extra's are important too, I personally wouldn't buy one without leather for instance.

Also the 318 gets around 40mpg and the 320d only ges around 45mpg so bearing in mind the price of diesel at the mo there is little cost saving there.

Also you have to factor in the higher service costs and complexity of the diesel.

Edit:
Just saw that the 318 is an ES which is pretty basic, I would only go for a well specced car.

Gumbo

diesel gets my vote too

fletch

kceire wrote: »

diesel gets my vote too

Diesel for me too, particularly as it's sport rather than ES spec.

RobAMerc

drove both - diesel gets it for me too. I could barely make a case for my 320ci after driving the diesel, except the sound.

milltown

You'll do very, very well to see 40mpg out of a 318. I only used to see over 30 on a decent run. 25 - 28 around town. Mine was an auto but I doubt the manual box would be worth more than 5mpg.

bazz26

The Sport model is also higher spec and has a nicer finish than the basic ES model.

abitdazed

I suppose I'd have the petrol as I just don't like diesels. But, seeing as you're buying late models and it's obvious you're not put off by the sound or lazy revving/throttle response, I'd say the diesel is better for. But, if you like Driving (capital D) then the petrol is the car. The diesel IS a sport however. I can see how you're stuck.

Me: Petrol
What I'd probably recommend to someone: Diesel

Eoin

abitdazed wrote: »

I suppose I'd have the petrol as I just don't like diesels. But, seeing as you're buying late models and it's obvious you're not put off by the sound or lazy revving/throttle response, I'd say the diesel is better for. But, if you like Driving (capital D) then the petrol is the car. The diesel IS a sport however. I can see how you're stuck.

Me: Petrol
What I'd probably recommend to someone: Diesel

I would have thought that the greater torque would make for a quicker throttle response?

The engine in the 320CD is a lot more refined than the original 136BHP one, which is one of the main reasons it was put into a coupé at all.

RobAMerc

abitdazed wrote: »

But, if you like Driving (capital D) then the petrol is the car.

Sorry cannot agree with this, the 318i is hardly a sports car now is it, and that BMW 320 d engine is pretty damn good. It will make you work harder keeping it on boost - but I think it would match the 318 in driver appeal.

abitdazed

"I would have thought that the greater torque would make for a quicker throttle response?

The engine in the 320CD is a lot more refined than the original 136BHP one, which is one of the main reasons it was put into a coupé at all."

Diesels have no doubt come along at a scarcely believable rate in the last 5 years, But that torque comes from turbos and diesel. Diesels don't rev particularly quickly and turbos further numb throttle response (takes a sec for them to spool up).

As for RobAMerc's claim about the sportiness and driver appeal of the 320d, upon reflection I'd have to say you might be right. Once off the mark, the diesel would surely trounce the 318. And it has a sport pack.

Can our man find a 320i petrol with the sport pack for similar money, that's what I'd be looking for.

Eoin

The lag on the 320d's is a lot less noticeable though, so I think you may be overstating the slow response.

abitdazed

Might be, I'm just statin the general qualities of Diesel vs Petrol. I drive a knackered 94 520i, I don't even bother to believe I can afford to test drive the newer ones. But originally I did say I'd recommend to someone else to take the diesel

Andrewf20

Never drove either, but the bro found the 318ci drearily slow.

The mags always seem to rate the 320d, but not as much praise for the 318ci.

320d for me!

Gandalf23

Another vote for the diesel*

*(I'm assuming both cars are the "old" shape ... both E46?)

Johnny Utah

OP: Go for the diesel, it's a great car. It has a 150 bhp engine.


The 320 CD is significantly better (between 20%-40%) in fuel consumption, and is also slightly better in performance. Some of the figures on fuel consumption quoted above are inaccurate.


The diesel is also rarer in Ireland, so it should have a better resale value. M sport pack will also make the car more valuable.


Make sure you get one with digital air conditioning, which is pretty standard in the 320s here, though I'm not sure about English cars as I've seen a few of the 320s over there with the basic air con.

Also, servicing shouldn't be much more expensive than the petrol equivalent. In fact the diesel should have a longer service interval than the petrol.


Also, the diesel isn't that noisy once you get into 3rd and 4th. It's probably even quiter than the petrol version.

listermint

For myself id pick the 318. Just dont like that Diesel sound. regardless of what anyone says you can hear it. of course you can hear it. But if i was passing on advice go with the diesel if your covering miles. I found the 318 to be fairly nippy its not slow as people on here would have you believe. 147Bhp. 1995cc and your getting the economy of a 4 pot rather than 6. But different strokes for different folks. Best of luck with your decision.

My Ultimate advice. Disregard what everyone says , Drive both yourself. And make up your own mind thats how i do :cool:

foxirl

Thanks for all the responses. looks like the 320 is winning out.

Can't make it over for a few weeks so one or both of them might be sold at that stage anyway.

Links to cars

318
http://www.cargiant.co.uk/BMW/3-series/Coupe/details.asp?Id=388301

320
http://www.cargiant.co.uk/BMW/3-series/Coupe/details.asp?Id=387749

Johnny Utah

listermint wrote: »

For myself id pick the 318. Just dont like that Diesel sound. regardless of what anyone says you can hear it. of course you can hear it. But if i was passing on advice go with the diesel if your covering miles. I found the 318 to be fairly nippy its not slow as people on here would have you believe. 147Bhp. 1995cc and your getting the economy of a 4 pot rather than 6. But different strokes for different folks. Best of luck with your decision.

My Ultimate advice. Disregard what everyone says , Drive both yourself. And make up your own mind thats how i do :cool:

Diesel engines have come a long way in the last 30 years. Some of the recent diesel engines from BMW are very refined, and they sound fine.

The 320 d engine is fairly quiet once you get up through the gears.


Here's the 5 series diesel, which was actually found to be quieter when compared to the equivalent 5 series petrol (go to about 3 mins 50 in the video):

http://youtube.com/watch?v=t7maXP3ShXs

foxirl wrote: »

Thanks for all the responses. looks like the 320 is winning out.

Can't make it over for a few weeks so one or both of them might be sold at that stage anyway.

Links to cars

318
http://www.cargiant.co.uk/BMW/3-series/Coupe/details.asp?Id=388301

320
http://www.cargiant.co.uk/BMW/3-series/Coupe/details.asp?Id=387749

That 318 has basic air con, and it doesn't have leather seats. They're leatherette (big difference).

320 has automatic air con, leather seats, and M Sport alloys.

mickey mac

If you decide to buy at cargiant, the test drive isn't ideal for making your mind up, inner city london. So if I was you I'd test drive here first, and then make your decision.


I'd go for the diesel!

HashSlinging

The diesel is going to be cheaper to tax - i think, and you'll get way better MPG ...45mpg at least I'd say..run away from the 318.. . Which is also a super looking car BTW.. but you'll find the diesel much more flexible to own.

Eoin

HashSlinging wrote: »

The diesel is going to be cheaper to tax - i think, and you'll get way better MPG ...45mpg at least I'd say.

Road tax will be the same (they are both 2 litre ) and they are only subject to the VRT changes, not the road tax changes.

Factory figures say ~49MPG, so I'd say real world will be closer to early 40s.

bazz26

HashSlinging wrote: »

The diesel is going to be cheaper to tax - i think, and you'll get way better MPG ...45mpg at least I'd say..run away from the 318.. . Which is also a super looking car BTW.. but you'll find the diesel much more flexible to own.

Both are 2.0 litre so will cost the same to tax.

Imperator

are there no 318 sports around that you could try. It really would be worth it as there is massive difference between an SE and sport. Am i right in believing the 318IS is a four cylinder. I think it would be worth having a look. both great cars tho and you'l probably not regret seeing the other at the traffic light no matter which you buy. Best of luck

listermint

Johnny Utah wrote: »

That 318 has basic air con, and it doesn't have leather seats. They're leatherette (big difference).

320 has automatic air con, leather seats, and M Sport alloys.

Leatherette wears much better than leather thus retains the appearance longer.
The average passenger cannot possibly tell the difference. Thus the added cost of leather and its qualities make the leatherette a far better and more appealing option. (Two cents)

JHMEG

318 would probably be the better driver's car simply cos the powerband on the diesel is so narrow, tho neither car would set any performance records.

milltown

foxirl wrote: »

Thanks for all the responses. looks like the 320 is winning out.

Can't make it over for a few weeks so one or both of them might be sold at that stage anyway.

Links to cars

318
http://www.cargiant.co.uk/BMW/3-series/Coupe/details.asp?Id=388301

320
http://www.cargiant.co.uk/BMW/3-series/Coupe/details.asp?Id=387749

AFAIK Cargiant move stock very quickly so there's a good chance those two cars are already gone I'm afraid. It's a shame they won't take a holding deposit to facilitate Irish customers. I've often thought of going over but am put off by the fact the car I'm after could be gone before I get there.

Ferris

milltown wrote: »

You'll do very, very well to see 40mpg out of a 318. I only used to see over 30 on a decent run. 25 - 28 around town. Mine was an auto but I doubt the manual box would be worth more than 5mpg.

True for the auto but the manual is completely different. I've driven both cars and my friends auto 318 ate juice while another friend used to get 35-40mpg around town. The 318's engine won engine of the year for its efficiency.

eoin_s wrote: »

The engine in the 320CD is a lot more refined than the original 136BHP one, which is one of the main reasons it was put into a coupé at all.

The BMW 2L Diesel is one of the loudest diesels modern around, you obviously havent heard one starting up from cold, sounds like a massey! Its a high compression diesel so its quite noisy its just that its quiet from inside due to BMW's build quality. Another friend has one of these, a 320cd sport and it is a lovely car. It didn't feel that quick to me however. I had a diesel Golf at the time and the golf was quicker in a straight line (obviously not in a corner).

OP make sure you stick to '05 too as '04 and before cars injested their inlet manifold swirl flaps and pre '03 cars blew turbo's

foxirl

Johnny Utah wrote: »

That 318 has basic air con, and it doesn't have leather seats. They're leatherette (big difference).

320 has automatic air con, leather seats, and M Sport alloys.

Johnny Utah - How can you tell the 318 has leatherette. To me the 318 leather looks more realistic than the 320. Thanks

Mister-M5

have driven both - go with diesel!

Johnny Utah

listermint wrote: »

Leatherette wears much better than leather thus retains the appearance longer.
The average passenger cannot possibly tell the difference. Thus the added cost of leather and its qualities make the leatherette a far better and more appealing option. (Two cents)

That's true, leatherette will actually wear better. After a few years with real leather, it will start to look quite worn. On the other hand, leatherette will still look pretty much new. However, you can prolong the life of both if it is manitained properly on a regular basis.

Of course, it's a personal choice too, and for the reason above a lot of people will probably prefer leatherette. Personally, I prefer the cloth sports seats.

Ferris wrote: »

True for the auto but the manual is completely different. I've driven both cars and my friends auto 318 ate juice while another friend used to get 35-40mpg around town. The 318's engine won engine of the year for its efficiency.

Are you talking about the 318?

You won't get 35-40 mpg out of the 318 around town. More like 25 mpg around town. The diesel will get about 35 mpg around town.

Ferris wrote: »

The BMW 2L Diesel is one of the loudest diesels modern around, you obviously havent heard one starting up from cold, sounds like a massey! Its a high compression diesel so its quite noisy its just that its quiet from inside due to BMW's build quality. Another friend has one of these, a 320cd sport and it is a lovely car. It didn't feel that quick to me however. I had a diesel Golf at the time and the golf was quicker in a straight line (obviously not in a corner).

OP make sure you stick to '05 too as '04 and before cars injested their inlet manifold swirl flaps and pre '03 cars blew turbo's

You're taking the piss now right?

If the engine is maintained properly, it sounds fine- nothing like a tractor. Once you're in 4th gear, it's surprisingly quiet. Probably quieter than the petrol.

foxirl wrote: »

Johnny Utah - How can you tell the 318 has leatherette. To me the 318 leather looks more realistic than the 320. Thanks

Leather = double stitching
http://uk.images.search.yahoo.com/images/view?back=http%3A%2F%2Fuk.images.search.yahoo.com%2Fsearch%2Fimages%3Fp%3DBMW%2Bleather%26fr%3Dyfp-t-501%26ei%3Dutf-8%26js%3D1%26x%3Dwrt&w=500&h=375&imgurl=static.flickr.com%2F2240%2F2330123115_01e558bbfb.jpg&rurl=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.flickr.com%2Fphotos%2Fstevecoulterperformancecars%2F2330123115%2F&size=91.4kB&name=2003+BMW+M3+Black+Nappa+Leather&p=BMW+leather&type=JPG&oid=866cc928929451ae&fusr=Steve+Coulter+Performance+Cars&tit=2003+BMW+M3+Black+Nappa+Leather&hurl=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.flickr.com%2Fphotos%2Fstevecoulterperformancecars%2F&tt=17,196&no=2&sigr=124obns2h&sigi=11gccm392&sigb=12ucftt74&sigh=11p75cae3


Leatherette = single stitching
http://uk.images.search.yahoo.com/images/view?back=http%3A%2F%2Fuk.images.search.yahoo.com%2Fsearch%2Fimages%3Fp%3DBMW%2Bleatherette%26fr%3Dyfp-t-501%26ei%3Dutf-8%26js%3D1%26x%3Dwrt&w=500&h=375&imgurl=static.flickr.com%2F2363%2F2381721624_29b85b5875.jpg&rurl=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.flickr.com%2Fphotos%2Flien%2F2381721624%2F&size=87.7kB&name=135i+Delivery+Day&p=BMW+leatherette&type=JPG&oid=d56cacda32e689e4&fusr=plien&tit=135i+Delivery+Day&hurl=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.flickr.com%2Fphotos%2Flien%2F&tt=88&no=3&sigr=11d7vns7v&sigi=11gu7j22j&sigb=132tmrtpt&sigh=112le9dhh





Leatherette is just a marketing term for vinyl. Call it what you want, it's still vinyl. Consequently, in hot weather (not that we even get much here), leatherette will not breathe like leather, and the seats will become hot and sticky. As I said above, personally I'd prefer cloth sports seats, but that's just me.

Bearcat

re residuals...you'll lose your jocks with the petrol. Also IMO BMW never produced a decent 4 cyl petrol engine.(m not included)....remember the old 316/318i's ..pure dogs. I think your still dealing with the orig block design.

That 320d engine on the flip side is a corker....shovel loads of torque......a cracker.

Diesel for me is a no brainer.

Ferris

Johnny Utah wrote: »

Are you talking about the 318?

You won't get 35-40 mpg out of the 318 around town. More like 25 mpg around town. The diesel will get about 35 mpg around town.

Quoted combined figure for the 318 (2.0L 16v) is 38mpg

Johnny Utah wrote: »

You're taking the piss now right?

If the engine is maintained properly, it sounds fine- nothing like a tractor. Once you're in 4th gear, it's surprisingly quiet. Probably quieter than the petrol.

If you read what I posted I said that the engine was quiet from inside the car due to its build quality (Thses cars have a double bulkhead between engine and driver). Outside is a different matter, I shared a house with a lad who had a 320cd and it was very loud on startup. You don't forget the sound that wakes you up every morning for a year. A lot of people don't like the rattle of a diesel so its a valid consideration for choosing between it and petrol. BTW the car was 2 years old, maintained by BMW and had low miles on the clock.

Johnny Utah

Ferris wrote: »

Quoted combined figure for the 318 (2.0L 16v) is 38mpg.

Oh right- sorry I thought you we're talking about driving around town. The combined figure for the 318C is 38.2 mpg, and for the 320Cd the combined figure is 49.6 mpg.

Ferris wrote: »

If you read what I posted I said that the engine was quiet from inside the car due to its build quality (Thses cars have a double bulkhead between engine and driver). Outside is a different matter, I shared a house with a lad who had a 320cd and it was very loud on startup. You don't forget the sound that wakes you up every morning for a year. A lot of people don't like the rattle of a diesel so its a valid consideration for choosing between it and petrol. BTW the car was 2 years old, maintained by BMW and had low miles on the clock.

I know you were talking about noise from outside the car, and you're right the engine probably would be classed as loud on start-up, but I certainly wouldn't say it sounds like a tractor. The 335 petrol, for instance, is also quite loud on start-up as well, but I wouldn't be complaining.

Funnily enough, I was sitting in traffic the other day. I was waiting at the lights and there was an old (nearly 10 years old) petrol mondeo in the lane beside me, and it sounded like it was on its last legs. Now, that particular car did sound like a tractor!

Ferris

Johnny Utah wrote: »

Oh right- sorry I thought you we're talking about driving around town. The combined figure for the 318C is 38.2 mpg, and for the 320Cd the combined figure is 49.6 mpg.

I know you were talking about noise from outside the car, and you're right the engine probably would be classed as loud on start-up, but I certainly wouldn't say it sounds like a tractor. The 335 petrol, for instance, is also quite loud on start-up as well, but I wouldn't be complaining.

Funnily enough, I was sitting in traffic the other day. I was waiting at the lights and there was an old (nearly 10 years old) petrol mondeo in the lane beside me, and it sounded like it was on its last legs. Now, that particular car did sound like a tractor!

Well its a very high compression diesel, it cannot help being noisy. The handa accord 2.2 for instance is a quiet diesel because it has a lower compression ratio and as a result only gets 136hp out of 2200cc.

My point is that for better resale go for spec rather than engine. If the roles in this case were reversed and it was a 318 M-sport vs a 320d es, I'd pick the 318. Thats because the only 2nd hand cars which are selling are either the very cheap ones or the ones that are a little bit special.

Also the 318 gets only 10mpg less MPG than the diesel, great for a petrol. It has longer intervals between expensive BMW services.
Its only 0.4s slower to 60 and its smoother and quieter.
They generally have lower mileage on them and the engine is simpler and has less on it to go wrong.

I know people hate 4cyl petrol BMW's but its a good engine.

listermint

Ferris wrote: »

Well its a very high compression diesel, it cannot help being noisy. The handa accord 2.2 for instance is a quiet diesel because it has a lower compression ratio and as a result only gets 136hp out of 2200cc.

My point is that for better resale go for spec rather than engine. If the roles in this case were reversed and it was a 318 M-sport vs a 320d es, I'd pick the 318. Thats because the only 2nd hand cars which are selling are either the very cheap ones or the ones that are a little bit special.

Also the 318 gets only 10mpg less MPG than the diesel, great for a petrol. It has longer intervals between expensive BMW services.
Its only 0.4s slower to 60 and its smoother and quieter.
They generally have lower mileage on them and the engine is simpler and has less on it to go wrong.

I know people hate 4cyl petrol BMW's but its a good engine.

Good post Ferris. All true!

Cyrus

I dont know what people are comparing it to but the 2.0d bmw diesel, despite being a decently powerful engine sounds very much like a diesel, and isnt a particularily refined engine.

some petrols may be loud when started (my m3 is very much so) but its a nice loud if you get me

Also leatherette is horrible:eek:i see the point about it maintaining its appearance and its true, it will always look crap :P

properly maintained leather seats should be fine for years.

Sports cloth is preferable over leatherette imo

Johnny Utah

Cyrus wrote: »

I dont know what people are comparing it to but the 2.0d bmw diesel, despite being a decently powerful engine sounds very much like a diesel, and isnt a particularily refined engine.

They were comparing it to a Massey Ferguson tractor, which I thought was a bit unfair.

Cyrus wrote: »

some petrols may be loud when started (my m3 is very much so) but its a nice loud if you get me

Yeah, I'd agree with that, and that's why I mentioned the 335. As I said before I don't think tone of the 320 diesel engine sounds like a tractor, and in any event once it's cruising in 4th gear or higher the engine is remarkably quiet, probably even quieter than the petrol equivalent as proven in the Top gear video above which compared the 5 series petrol v diesel.

Cyrus wrote: »

Also leatherette is horrible:eek:i see the point about it maintaining its appearance and its true, it will always look crap :P

properly maintained leather seats should be fine for years.

Sports cloth is preferable over leatherette imo

+1, kinda like buying a leather jacket in Harvey Nicholls or Unique.:D