An Bord Pleanala

partyguinness

Hi, I have applied for planning permission is a rural setting in xxx County and I got the Decsion last month and the final Grant was due last Thursday. But the bi**h across the road lodged an appeal to An Bord Pleanala.

The site in question was part of my mothers farm which my family have owned for over 200 years and it was sold by my mother in 1994 (she was an only child and didnt marry a farmer) she kept back a 3/4 acre site with a view to having me build on it in due course. This was in 1995. We lived on the land until 1994 and moved 7 miles away.

Now this ENGLISH lady purchased the cottage across the road in 1997 (she is retired and moved from Leeds on her own) and she is doing everything possible to prevent planning being granted such as:

a. Trying to get neighbours to sign a petition against me (silly cow doesnt realise that most of them are related to me)
b. Going to Councillors/TDs;
c. Bitching to anyone and everyone who will listen (more like humour her)

The cow had the nerve to accuse me of beinig a "blow-in"...the women from England calling me a "blow-in" on my own land...!!!!:eek::eek::eek:

She lodged an objection with xxxCounty Council which was all based on privacy issues that hold no water in planning officers. Now she has lodged the exact same objections with Bord Pleanala and now there is a good chance that it will be refused because it now goes to Dublin de novo and they are more strict on one off housing.

Can you imagine my fury that a English women who contributes nothing to the area, has no family or connection with the area, only moved there a few years ago can know hijack my plan to build a family home on my family land.

xxx is full of these batty old bags from England or hippies who move here for a quiet life and think they own the place.

Anyone here got similar experiences? and how did it go?

RKQ

Every resident has a democratic right to object to a planning application.

Each objection must be based on Planning Law and the County Development Plan.

The Board will give you the oppertunity to put your case to them.
An Bord Pleanala are not interested in phrases like "blow-in" or "silly cow".
References like that will damage your appeal.

You seem to have strong links to the area and must submit them to the Board. A paper trail showing your family's long links to the area and your Mothers thoughts in 1994, will help your case.

Cork has a good reputation and is well known for its design guide. Planning permission can be difficult in rural Cork. The fact that you got permission must be proof of your strong links to the area.

You should retain the services of a professional, that is familar with the Board.

muffler

Moved to Construction & Planning forum.

muffler

RKQ wrote: »

You should retain the services of a professional, that is familar with the Board.

Way to go.

partyguinness

RKQ wrote: »

Every resident has a democratic right to object to a planning application.

Each objection must be based on Planning Law and the County Development Plan.

The Board will give you the oppertunity to put your case to them.
An Bord Pleanala are not interested in phrases like "blow-in" or "silly cow".
References like that will damage your appeal.

You seem to have strong links to the area and must submit them to the Board. A paper trail showing your family's long links to the area and your Mothers thoughts in 1994, will help your case.

xx has a good reputation and is well known for its design guide. Planning permission can be difficult in rural xx. The fact that you got permission must be proof of your strong links to the area.

You should retain the services of a professional, that is familar with the Board.

I appreciate that everyone has the right to object...I am not lodging my appeal here so "blow-in" and "silly cow" will certainly not be part of my submissions. It was my rant.

I am more concerned about my percolation tes. My concern is that Bord Pleanala will enforce that strictly and refuse it and I will be back to square one and €4k out of pocket. If that happens I will just keep re-doing the percolation in other areas until it passes.

Anyone with experience with dealing with the Bord?

Poor Uncle Tom

Had a recent case where an Bord overturned the Council's decision to grant planning after a similar appeal.

The officer made a big issue of the fact that they asked the council for imput into appeal and they did not reply. An Bord was not impressed.

If you can get the council to comment on your established housing need, it should help you greatly. As well as that all family connections to the area need to be documented. Go to the parish office, get copies of Birth, Baptismal, Marrage and Death Certificates. Old ESB Bills, Hardware Bills, P & T Bills, etc., etc.,

And, Good Luck.

partyguinness

Any views on the percolation test issues or even better..does anyone know a good engineer in xxx with An Bord Pleanala experience?

The lady who submitted by plans was an Architectural Technician and once it goes into the Council she doesnt want to know about it plus I dont have much confidence in her so am looking for someone else.

snellers

you mention the lady would be across the road from your proposed build....I'm not suggesting all of her arguments are genuine reasons for refusing planning but if I had purchased a property with views across fields to be told a planning app has been made that will ruin or remove some of those views I might have a slight amount of understanding as to the reluctance of someone to accept a house built. (particularly if I had lived and enjoyed those views in excess of 14 years).
The fact that she is ENGLISH as you put it makes no point whatsoever other than pure ignorance on your part (you mention she purchased the property, it wasn't inherited from past landowner 'issues' so she has every right as a resident and 100% legitimate homeowner to make her point as much as any IRISH person)

can't say I have noticed any of the planning boards stating 'complaints from blow-ins, particularly old english blow-ins not allowed' or similar.

Have a rant by all means - I agree with you that it makes sense you are allowed to build based on family ties - I do hope you succeed in your application....I'm just saying there was no need to get personal with your point. Would it have made any difference if the house had been purchased as a holiday home by an Irish couple in Dublin and they had a problem with your app? You would still be pissed irrespective of their nationality.

partyguinness

Let me clarify again..I know she has every right to object and I expected her to object from day one. I even met her and explained my intentions and was very polite and answered all questions. She was the one who called me a 'blow-in' to my face (not me) and that I had no right to build there. Plus her written objections (not to mention calling around to next door neighbours to sign a petition)contained a number of blatent untruths and malicious lies about the area. You can appreciate that a foreign lady (or any person from outside the area for that matter) telling me that I am a blow in and then launching a campaign against me would grate to say the least...my submissions will be confined to planning matters only...she made it personal from the very start..in hindsight I wish I had ignored her and I was too nice to her...I understood her concerns fully and I would be in the same boat but launching a malicious,dishonest campaign against me has made me ever so slightly bitter...

She purchased it 11 years ago and I think she is more upset that she had no idea there was a site across the road than anything else. A few of my best friends are planners with xx Co Co and they said they take absolutely no heed of objections and every planning application is based on its merits in line with proper planning guidelines.

Calling me ignorant just for the sake of it is lazy.

But my main conern is not her but my percolation test and getting through An Bord..any views? Are An Bord very strict?

ps. Nationality is not an issue..in fact my g/friend is English and so was my Architect!! (co-incidence though)..this is not some anti-English rant

sydthebeat

snellers wrote: »

you mention the lady would be across the road from your proposed build....I'm not suggesting all of her arguments are genuine reasons for refusing planning but if I had purchased a property with views across fields to be told a planning app has been made that will ruin or remove some of those views I might have a slight amount of understanding as to the reluctance of someone to accept a house built. (particularly if I had lived and enjoyed those views in excess of 14 years).
The fact that she is ENGLISH as you put it makes no point whatsoever other than pure ignorance on your part (you mention she purchased the property, it wasn't inherited from past landowner 'issues' so she has every right as a resident and 100% legitimate homeowner to make her point as much as any IRISH person)

can't say I have noticed any of the planning boards stating 'complaints from blow-ins, particularly old english blow-ins not allowed' or similar.

Have a rant by all means - I agree with you that it makes sense you are allowed to build based on family ties - I do hope you succeed in your application....I'm just saying there was no need to get personal with your point. Would it have made any difference if the house had been purchased as a holiday home by an Irish couple in Dublin and they had a problem with your app? You would still be pissed irrespective of their nationality.

There is no legal right to views established. Arguing that ones views are going to be interrupted has certainly no planning basis for objection.

snellers

I agree Syd...just saying that might be some of the 'logic' surrounding her prob with the app....not suggesting it is a valid point but a point that many might feel is a valid reason (and will of course be corrected on the facts by the bord)

partyguinness

Yes...having views interrupted are not a valid ground for objection and will be ignored by the planning authority..more or less set in stone with planners..

muffler

No personal abuse here please. Take a chill pill or take a holiday.

Not too often I give people a choice so please make full use of it.

partyguinness

There is no personal abuse going on here.

RKQ

I wish you luck Partyguinness.
I agree with above. Its ok to have a rant but any hint of such to the Bord will spell disaster for you.
I feel phrases like "A few of my best friends are planners with Cork Co Co" and "percolation test scored at 62 which is above 60 and should technically fail but the area engineers in cork are more lenient and were fine with it", are unhelpful.

Who did the Soil Test?
Was it to EPA Guildelines?
Would the installation of a raised percolation area or a treatment plant help your situation?
What is your neighbours main objection?

Retain an Architect, Architectural Technician or Planner with experience of Appeals.

All applications are judged on their merits, within Planning Law and if it should be built, you will win.

partyguinness

RKQ wrote: »

I wish you luck Partyguinness.
I agree with above. Its ok to have a rant but any hint of such to the Bord will spell disaster for you.
I feel phrases like "A few of my best friends are planners with xx Co Co" and "percolation test scored at 62 which is above 60 and should technically fail but the area engineers in xx are more lenient and were fine with it", are unhelpful.

Who did the Soil Test?
Was it to EPA Guildelines?
Would the installation of a raised percolation area or a treatment plant help your situation?
What is your neighbours main objection?

Retain an Architect, Architectural Technician or Planner with experience of Appeals.

All applications are judged on their merits, within Planning Law and if it should be built, you will win.

You have lost me..unhelpful to who? This is a forum.

RKQ

Unhelpful to you..... having friends that are Planners in the Council isn't going to help you. If mentioned to the Bord, you will get your friends in trouble and make the granting of your application seem like a "favour"... I hate favours but not as much as the Bord!

Don't sink your own ship with loose talk... an own goal would be very unhelpful. ie "area engineers in cork are more lenient". National policy is National policy! Planning Law & Envirnomental guidelines apply to Cork.

I know this is a forum but it is a national public forum.
Its ok to rant but will you be able to keep a tight lid on it when corresponding with the Bord?:cool:

My advice is free and I am still interested in the answers to my previous questions!

partyguinness

RKQ wrote: »

Unhelpful to you..... having friends that are Planners in the Council isn't going to help you. If mentioned to the Bord, you will get your friends in trouble and make the granting of your application seem like a "favour"... I hate favours but not as much as the Bord!

Don't sink your own ship with loose talk... an own goal would be very unhelpful. ie "area engineers in xx are more lenient". National policy is National policy! Planning Law & Envirnomental guidelines apply to xx.

I know this is a forum but it is a national public forum.
Its ok to rant but will you be able to keep a tight lid on it when corresponding with the Bord?:cool:

My advice is free and I am still interested in the answers to my previous questions!

I was able to ask my friends for general planning advice..the person who did the application I did not personally know and kept it that way so to avoid any perception of favouritism. What i have written today will not find its way into any submission..it was just a rant.

My application will be kept strictly to planning matters and I will ask a planning consultant to draft it for me. There will be absolutely no personal attacks or swipes against any objectors. Mentioning my friends in my application would be very stupid to say the least and uttely pointless. In fact I was very sensitive about it as I could have gone against me just to prove a point.

In relation to your questions I dont have the percolation test results in front on me as it as home but I will bring it in tomorrow.

Poor Uncle Tom

You could get your site tested by a Hydrogeologist and submit their report with your submission (if the results are in favour). Such a report is likely to cost about €2,000 plus VAT and will include, on site testing, listing of hydrological and geological features on or around the site, Karst features and ratings, soil hydraulics and likely recommendations for on site treatment of sewerage or not as the case may be.

partyguinness

Poor Uncle Tom wrote: »

You could get your site tested by a Hydrogeologist and submit their report with your submission (if the results are in favour). Such a report is likely to cost about €2,000 plus VAT and will include, on site testing, listing of hydrological and geological features on or around the site, Karst features and ratings, soil hydraulics and likely recommendations for on site treatment of sewerage or not as the case may be.

Interesting...I am due to have a chat with a Planning Consultant tomorrow for the first time and I'll mention it to him..

The planner said in his opinion (99%) it will be shot down because of the percolation test technical failure, even though the area engineer passed it. In fairness they were surprised because the soil is very good so maybe re-locating the bio-cylce elsewhere might do the trick. I am bothered that my Architect submitted the percolation test anyway assuring me all was in order and now it may be my downfall. Only found it out it was a technical failure after it had gone to the Council. Ironically the objector knows nothing about this and her issues are with privacy/views.

muffler

partyguinness wrote: »

There is no personal abuse going on here.

partyguinness wrote: »

a. Trying to get neighbours to sign a petition against me (silly cow doesnt realise that most of them are related to me)
b. Going to Councillors/TDs;
c. Bitching to anyone and everyone who will listen (more like humour her)

The cow had the nerve to accuse me of beinig a "blow-in"...

Can you imagine my fury that a English women who contributes nothing to the area,

is full of these batty old bags from England or hippies who move here for a quiet life and think they own the place.

We dont need such personal descriptions on this forum.

snellers wrote: »

other than pure ignorance on your part

Would it have made any difference if the house had been purchased as a holiday home by an Irish couple in Dublin and they had a problem with your app? You would still be pissed irrespective of their nationality.

And that too is uncalled for.


Take a minute and read the charter and understand what this forum is all about.

And thats my final word on the matter.

snellers

Muffler, fair play I hold my hands up - no malice intended but I could have worded my issue a little better

apologies

muffler

snellers wrote: »

Muffler, fair play I hold my hands up - no malice intended but I could have worded my issue a little better

apologies

Grand. No problem and apology accepted.

Its the little things that sometimes lead to a full blown spat and I'd rather intervene now than find myself in a position where I have to wave the auld ban stick later.