How much do you pay your sound engineer?

blackbagtrack

I'm just trying to get an idea of what other bands pay for sound engineers. Our guy at the moment is good and all but he is not a professional, he's just out of college. We seem to be paying him a ratio of what we get for the gig.
For your standard pub gig we get around 450-550 euro, and we would give him 50-70euro respectively. Which I think is fair enough.
For a wedding worth 1500, there's talk of paying him 200.
Is this right? Do any of you other bands pay to ratio like this or would you give a set amount?

unclebill98

Does he just do the sound? Does he provide the gear? Does he set everything up? Tear down etc?

blackbagtrack

Good question,
Well each of us set up and set down our own gear, he does help out but the majority of the work is done by us. We have our own top of the range PA and mixer that we haul to and fro gigs, so he does'nt provide any gear. The other guys say we should pay him well to "keep him sweet" because he does a good job, which he does, but they dont realize the plethora of sound engineers looking for work and students fresh out of college and the like out there, that could do just as good a job, and would probably do that wedding for a hundred, even less! I know 1 hundred as opposed to 2 isn't that much, but im afraid that if we get a wedding for 3000 they will want to give him 400! And the other thing is the guys have become friends with him now and want to help him out. I know I probably seem like a greedy bastard, but I view this cover band as a business and I think this friendship is costing me money.
What do you think?

Savman

blackbagtrack wrote: »

And the other thing is the guys have become friends with him now and want to help him out. I know I probably seem like a greedy bastard, but I view this cover band as a business and I think this friendship is costing me money.
What do you think?

You're absolutely correct IMHO. If he doesn't own/provide the system, then naturally the rate would be lower to reflect this. Don't get sucked into the "keep him sweet" mentality, that's unsustainable. At the same time, if he does a good job and serves the band well then try not cheapen out either. €200 is excessive if he's mixing on your rig, I'd be inclined to suggest meeting in the middle somewhere around €100-150 as a rough estimate, not factoring into the equation other variables such as travel etc.

If you know in advance how many hours work are involved, you could look at an hourly rate.

blackbagtrack

Hourly rate, that could be something to think about, and another thing in relation to travel, he gets a lift to the gigs that are outside the city centre of the guys, so he doesnt have to pay for fuel either like the rest of us.

NyquistFreak

My two cents OP: It's handy to have someone reliable who will attend all of your gigs, know your set and songs so as to get the best quality sound for your performance, it would probably be more useful to an originals band than a covers band like you say you are part of. I know several bands who consider their engineer as part of the band, and as such should get an equal share in band profit. This does not sound like your case at all however.

If you look at the maths you're quoting here:

*70 bucks to the engineer for a gig worth 550 = about 7.8% of earnings.
*50 bucks for a gig worth 450 = 9% of earnings
*200 euro for a gig worth 1500 = 7.5% of earnings.

You need to get some consistency here I think, I understand you feel 200 euro is a lot of money, but percentage wise it's actually less than when you give him 50 quid on 450...where's the logic in your argument if you think the 50 bucks is justifiable but as soon as the numbers get larger the green eyed monster comes out and you think this man is ripping you off?

As far as being able to find students just out of college willing to work for less, you're probably spot on there, you might even get the job done for free if you promise a sweet reference at the end of it for the CV, and for a covers band who don't mind non- or semi-professional work that would probably suit you down to the ground. There are probably students graduating this year looking for a bit of experience with level 7 and 8 degrees in the subject, compared with fetac level 5s and Arts Degrees subjects from Maynooth...you're actually spoilt for choice. Many of them might even know how to be a bit more usefull than your current guy, its not beyond the realms of possibility like, all dependent on the type of background this guy has I guess..

Like other posters mention, you own the PA so theoretically you could get just about anyone in to work the controls without affecting the overall show,it really is up to yourselves like.

At the end of the day though, you have to recognise the fact that you get what you pay for, and if you expect a college graduate to run around after you for less than pittance of what you yourself are earning from the gig itself you're going to have to take what you get... nor can you expect said person to keep running around after you indefinately, you will be a means to an end for that person, and potentially will be dropped last minute at the drop of a hat if something better/ higher paying either within the field or in another area of their interest comes along, and as long as you're ok with that then fair game I'd say.

I'm just looking at this thread with a bit of interest seeing as my level 7 exams are looming there in about three weeks, to be very honest with you, it's a stressful thought that the only work I'm likely to get after my three years hard slog (I can guarantee you it's not as easy a course as it sounds, lots of electrical engineering, computers, networking, programming, musicianship yada yada...is probably going to have to be for free or pittance. I have about five years worth of this voluntary non paid experience behind me at this stage, and to be honest it gets old fast, and when I have been paid the hourly rate (which was below industry standard I'm told by several professional engineers in Cork City) was about 13.50 - 15 quid an hour...so perhaps be carefull going down the hourly wage route with your man there...see also you can't pay him less than the minimum wage either like...

I'd say one thing if the OP wasn't actually earning anything from the gigs themselves, but he is and I'm sorry but most venues I know will charge any band regardless of whether they're to be paid or takings on the door or whatever, minimum charge per night is 50 - 70 euro for the house engineer ( and that's between Cork and Limerick can't comment on elsewhere but cant imagine Dublin would be any cheaper anyway...also bearing in mind Limerick has the only two straight Sound Degree courses in the country at the moment so as far as students looking for experience goes, we probably are a bit flooded here like). This is a once off 15 minute sound check and you're away kind of set up, not like what you have where the engineer is used to your sound etc. and can give his time to attend every gig so your sound is consistant across many venues (again probably more important to an originals band than a covers / wedding band)

If you really want to look at it from a business perspective OP, think of it this way: a standard Music Business Management Contract offers the manager 20% of gross earnings, and Agency contract will offer 10%, both of these jobs are as potentially useful or useless as your permanent engineer depending what use you have for them...just to put things in perspective for you a bit. You can't expect a quality service for nothing.. I would also like to point out that I find it funny that you believe you should be allowed to view your covers band as a business (which is spot on like, right way to do it and fair play to you) but your college (which college out of interest actually?) graduate sound guy shouldn't be trying to make profit from his end of the business? reeeeeeeeks of double standard love, I'm sorry like but at least this guy went away and learned his trade properly before going into "business" with it...sorry I know that sounds harsh, just be aware hoe you're coming across like

Personally for your specific situation, you're probably as well off having a couple of freeby experience hungry student types in your phonebook and dole out the work you have going among them so as not to overload any one of them (there's only so much work for free a person will do like before they start expecting something in return, human nature haha) and maybe don't tell them at all about your financial business if that's the way you want to go with it (not that I should be giving you any such advice in the first place like, its technically people like you who make it harder for people like me to stay off the dole with an attitude like that, but to each his own I guess)

As far as keeping your current guy on, I cant see how that relationship won't turn sour, between your obvious resentment that this man requires a fee at all, his knowledge of how profits are split among the band coupled with his new found friendship with the other band mambers, lack of indepandence from ye (he cant run off with your PA and set up with another band like)... messy messy messy!

NyquistFreak

hahaa! didn't realise this was such an old tread when I replied, meh! hope it all worked out for you anyway sure