Does the Irish Times try to pish the peasants off on Fridays?

darkman2

Friday, July 11, 2008 Poll reveals class a key element in Lisbon vote

A STRIKING feature of the recent referendum on the Lisbon Treaty was a massive difference in the class composition of those who voted No and Yes, according to an analysis of the results of an opinion poll carried out for the European Commission.

Among manual workers, 74 per cent voted No to the treaty while among the self-employed, 60 per cent voted Yes. There was a corresponding difference between the more educated who voted Yes and the least educated, who voted No.

Roysh.

Joe Cool

I smell wee.

Jesus Wept

I'm guessing you voted NO darkman2, ya big thick!

nocal

About time the peasants were exposed.

Dave!

Any more info on this? Any more detail on the numbers?

Jigsaw

Which is why referenda are a waste of time. The general public are thick and stupid and don't understand things. They take their lead from some sh1te newspaper and don't have the intelligence to assimilate the information and come to a reasoned decision based on an objective analysis of all the issues.

I believe in the benevolent dictatorship, but that is an ideal that can never be realised.

darkman2

The-Rigger wrote: »

I'm guessing you voted NO darkman2, ya big thick!

Shut up........You...............West Brit Tory Toff.:D


The full story is on IrishTimes.com somewhere.........out there

genericgoon

Jigsaw wrote: »

Which is why referenda are a waste of time. The general public are thick and stupid and don't understand things. They take their lead from some sh1te newspaper and don't have the intelligence to assimilate the information and come to a reasoned decision based on an objective analysis of all the issues.

I believe in the benevolent dictatorship, but that is an ideal that can never be realised.

Or failing that having a voting licence. :cool: Just use old JC CSPE papers as the test lol

biko

Damn workers, we should all eat cake.

The Hill Billy

The-Rigger wrote: »

I'm guessing you voted NO darkman2, ya big thick!

* Wipes coffee off keyboard, screen & face *

super_furry

When will people learn, only men with blonde hair, blue eyes and an IQ above 140 should be allowed to vote.

Setun

Jigsaw wrote: »

Which is why referenda are a waste of time. The general public are thick and stupid and don't understand things. They take their lead from some sh1te newspaper and don't have the intelligence to assimilate the information and come to a reasoned decision based on an objective analysis of all the issues.

I believe in the benevolent dictatorship, but that is an ideal that can never be realised.

Many people who voted yes also took their cue from newspapers aswell.

thelordofcheese

darkman2 wrote: »

Roysh.

If you can go a week without making another thread about the lisbon treaty, i'll give you cake.

Nice cake too.

kaimera

thelordofcheese wrote: »

If you can go a week without making another thread about the lisbon treaty, i'll give you cake.

Nice cake too.

Screw cake, give him a back handed smack instead :pac:

Sherifu

thelordofcheese wrote: »

If you can go a week without making another thread about the lisbon treaty, i'll give you cake.

Nice cake too.

I'll donate an old sock too.

thelordofcheese

So we're agreed. The cake will be placed inside the old sock and kaimera will deliver it with a backhanded smack.

humanji

super_furry wrote: »

When will people learn, only men with blonde hair, blue eyes and an IQ above 140 should be allowed to vote.

Why should only the Polish get to vote?

Heisenberg.

This post has been deleted.

Occidental

Darkman,

Shouldn't you be reading the Indo.

Occidental

The Scientist wrote: »

Start reading the Irish Examiner tbh...

The Longford Leader's a good local paper too.

Steve_o

humanji wrote: »

Why should only the Polish get to vote?

We've been through this... Irish people aren't allowed vote cause we'll only start messin and nothin will happen!:D

TwoShedsJackson

Jigsaw wrote: »

Which is why referenda are a waste of time. The general public are thick and stupid and don't understand things. They take their lead from some sh1te newspaper and don't have the intelligence to assimilate the information and come to a reasoned decision based on an objective analysis of all the issues.

I believe in the benevolent dictatorship, but that is an ideal that can never be realised.

+1

Climate Expert

I believe in the benevolent dictatorship, but that is an ideal that can never be realised.

haha thats weird, so do I. I thought I was the only one.

Its the perfect political system if it worked. I'd like to think I would be able to do the job without falling foul of massive murderous corruption.

Irishcrx

Cause the more educated you are the less nationalistic you are, have some damn pride...up the RAAAAAAAAA!!!

Steve_o

Irishcrx wrote: »

Cause the more educated you are the less nationalistic you are, have some damn pride...up the RAAAAAAAAA!!!

:rolleyes: Plenty of pride here...

ejmaztec

At least the Buy & Sell doesn't get involved in party politics and tell us that two thirds of the population are knuckle-dragging, peat-chewing cretins.

javaboy

So the stats say that a majority of No voters are dumb dumbs and the majority of Yes voters are smarty pants.......

And since the No vote won does that implies Ireland is a country largely populated by dummies?

Finally a statistic to prove what we knew all along :pac:

Aurora Borealis

javaboy wrote: »

So the stats say that a majority of No voters are dumb dumbs and the majority of Yes voters are smarty pants.......

And since the No vote won does that implies Ireland is a country largely populated by dummies?

Thought struck me too...

entropi

Joe Cool wrote: »

I smell wee.

not only the wee you smell, it's the bs opinion the Irish Times usually has. If i was a betting man, i would bet they either don't give a f*ck about the working class or...wait thats already true haha:D

I'm quite sure there were alot of very well educated people who voted NO, and since 78% of all statistics are made up on the spot they got something wrong.

WindSock

Maybe the smrtr ppl are so smrt, they don't have to vote?

funk-you

Joe Cool wrote: »

I smell wee.

T'is him...he smells like wee.

Why would the times be able to pish peasants off anyway? They're all way too busy filling out claim forms/getting jiggidy jiggidly snoopy doggy doggy style with page 3 and yer wan kerry from iceland.

-Funk

MOH

Jigsaw wrote: »

Which is why referenda are a waste of time. The general public are thick and stupid and don't understand things. They take their lead from some sh1te newspaper and don't have the intelligence to assimilate the information and come to a reasoned decision based on an objective analysis of all the issues.

I believe in the benevolent dictatorship, but that is an ideal that can never be realised.

TwoShedsJackson wrote: »

+1

Climate Expert wrote: »

haha thats weird, so do I. I thought I was the only one.

Its the perfect political system if it worked. I'd like to think I would be able to do the job without falling foul of massive murderous corruption.

Odd, I thought I was the only one too. I thought I'd made up the term too.

Let's have a referendum on whether the country should be run by a benevolent dictatorship. Then we can take turns. Me first - then my first act can be to scrap the taking turns bit.

InFront

I don't really understand the parallell between the less educated/ working classes and the rejection of the treaty.
A strong Europe has traditionally benefitted this area of Irish society, and if you take a look at Britain, it would be the educated and established classes which tend to be Euro-sceptic.

Perhaps it is a question of Nationalism more than intelligence, though. The British Euro-sceptics are very nationalist in outlook (or lack of), whereas the Irish nationalists often tend to be from a worse-off social background and perhaps thereby less well educated.
Maybe by default, there's reasonable truth in the statement that less educated people were more likely to be opposed to Lisbon. It's all down to Nationalism.

PrivateEye

The Irish Times basically campaigned for a Yes vote, with Madame Editor actually publishing an editorial telling us we'd be "out of our minds" to vote No. Garrett Fitzgerald was given plenty of space to write absolute rubbish, and their character assasination of Declan Ganley was hilarious (Ganley is an absolute shaddy right-wing character none the less)

Since the referendum she's basically started throwing the toys out of the pram and blaming it on the 'little people'. The 'wurkin' class' who haven't an ounce and would have voted Yes if they understood. I understood just fine, I did a fair whack of research on Lisbon (as far as I could, I truly believe NOBODY could understand the treaty inside out because it required a very good knowledge of most treaties before it and European Law) and understood enough to vote No. Being told I didn't understand the issues before me is becoming annoying, belittling the people won't work.

Still, as has been said immigration was the 'elephant in the room' all along. I noticed it in a lot of young lads when the question came up, the fear of further E.U expansion and the continuation of the 'race to the bottom' for cheap wages was huge. You can't blame immigrant workers for this surely though, if you lived in Poland for instance odds are you'd come here in a second too. I would. If the E.U expands further people felt they would be in competition with millions more workers for employment. This had little to do with the treaty, but it brought about a huge 'protest vote'.

Between France, Holland and ourselves they've basically been told No three times and they don't seem interested. There's only so many times they can repackage the one thing, and I'm sure Sarkozy coming here will benefit the No side more, in the event of a Lisbon II.

I felt DUUUURTY being on the same side as Coir/Youth Defence, Ganley and a few others- but it's all over now. Or is it for now. Hmm.

The Chessplayer

darkman2 wrote: »

Roysh.

What they're trying to say is that a bigger proportion of thicks voted no. I don't think anyone could dispute that fact. While there were definitely valid arguments on both sides, they would have been lost on the average thicko who voted "no", thinking that the referendum was about conscription/abortion etc.

Calibos

Climate Expert wrote: »

haha thats weird, so do I. I thought I was the only one.

Its the perfect political system if it worked. I'd like to think I would be able to do the job without falling foul of massive murderous corruption.

Theres the problem right there though. All the murderous corrupt dictators think they are benevolent dictators. From their perspective they are doing whats best for the country by locking up and murdering the pesky dissidents and rebel groups. "If only we can shut those feckers up we could concentrate our efforts on improving this country." and " I as a benevolent dictator feel its only right that I should be rewarded with a few palaces and planes and fleets of mercs for all the good I am doing for the country"

I don't think any of them sit down one day and say, "You know what, I am going to take power and be damned with welfare of the country. I'm going to run it into the ground and take as much for myself as I can."

Even if the dictator truely is benevolent most of his underlings wont necessarily be. In their own way, they will be doing the same, rewarding themselves for the 'good' they are doing because the state hasn't gotten around to rewarding them yet.

And then again, a truely benevolent person like you or me are not the type of person to seek power in the first place.

Actually have I just contradicted the rest of my post

Wertz

I'm self employed and voted no. F*ck you journos.
But the thing is I did vote...the "smart" people were so convinced that the treaty being passed would be a cakewalk that they didn't bother their holes going out to vote...I get the feeling that will change during any subsequent referendum...

javaboy

Wertz wrote: »

I'm self employed and voted no. F*ck you journos.

The stat only said 60% of self employed people voted yes so what's the big deal? You're one of the 40% of self employed who voted no. It's not like they said all self employed people voted yes.

Wertz

There is no big deal, I'm just posting it as my take on the thread. This whole lisbon treaty post mortem is a bit pointless IMO, bottom line was that it was a no, doesn't really matter why or how...the only people it does matter to are the yes side, so thaey can see who to target next time round...

Terry

darkman2 wrote: »

Friday, July 11, 2008 Poll reveals class a key element in Lisbon vote

A STRIKING feature of the recent referendum on the Lisbon Treaty was a massive difference in the class composition of those who voted No and Yes, according to an analysis of the results of an opinion poll carried out for the European Commission.

Among manual workers, 74 per cent voted No to the treaty while among the self-employed, 60 per cent voted Yes. There was a corresponding difference between the more educated who voted Yes and the least educated, who voted No.

Roysh.

That's the bit I'm interested in.

How many of those self employed people actually do manual work?
There are plenty of self employed tradesmen out there, or do they not count as self employed in the eyes of the Irish times?

fúckwits.

javaboy

Terry wrote: »

That's the bit I'm interested in.

How many of those self employed people actually do manual work?
There are plenty of self employed tradesmen out there, or do they not count as self employed in the eyes of the Irish times?

fúckwits.

It doesn't actually say they are distinct groups with no overlap. I would say the statistics have been twisted a bit.

Wertz

Terry wrote: »

That's the bit I'm interested in.

How many of those self employed people actually do manual work?
There are plenty of self employed tradesmen out there, or do they not count as self employed in the eyes of the Irish times?

fúckwits.

Good point Terry, I would be one of the tradesmen in question.
I think in the nice cosy business world of the IT, only people with their own shop/company/office/consultancy would really count...sure everyone knows tradesmen don't even pay tax, when they bother to stop drinking tea long enought o earn a crust...

PrivateEye

PrivateEye wrote: »

The Irish Times basically campaigned for a Yes vote, with Madame Editor actually publishing an editorial telling us we'd be "out of our minds" to vote No. Garrett Fitzgerald was given plenty of space to write absolute rubbish, and their character assasination of Declan Ganley was hilarious (Ganley is an absolute shaddy right-wing character none the less)

Since the referendum she's basically started throwing the toys out of the pram and blaming it on the 'little people'. The 'wurkin' class' who haven't an ounce and would have voted Yes if they understood. I understood just fine, I did a fair whack of research on Lisbon (as far as I could, I truly believe NOBODY could understand the treaty inside out because it required a very good knowledge of most treaties before it and European Law) and understood enough to vote No. Being told I didn't understand the issues before me is becoming annoying, belittling the people won't work.

Still, as has been said immigration was the 'elephant in the room' all along. I noticed it in a lot of young lads when the question came up, the fear of further E.U expansion and the continuation of the 'race to the bottom' for cheap wages was huge. You can't blame immigrant workers for this surely though, if you lived in Poland for instance odds are you'd come here in a second too. I would. If the E.U expands further people felt they would be in competition with millions more workers for employment. This had little to do with the treaty, but it brought about a huge 'protest vote'.

Between France, Holland and ourselves they've basically been told No three times and they don't seem interested. There's only so many times they can repackage the one thing, and I'm sure Sarkozy coming here will benefit the No side more, in the event of a Lisbon II.

I felt DUUUURTY being on the same side as Coir/Youth Defence, Ganley and a few others- but it's all over now. Or is it for now. Hmm.

Excellent post (& points), very well made.

Earthhorse

Anyone else think this thread was going to be about the appointments section?

darkman2

The Chessplayer wrote: »

What they're trying to say is that a bigger proportion of thicks voted no. I don't think anyone could dispute that fact. While there were definitely valid arguments on both sides, they would have been lost on the average thicko who voted "no", thinking that the referendum was about conscription/abortion etc.

I voted no but not for those reasons - for reasons I had a genuine concern about and did not think there was enough reassurance. Corporate tax was the big issue for me. I think there is a loophole in the treaty.

Anyways this is not about the ins and outs of the Lisbon treaty - just the Irish Times which I read more then any other newspaper because it is well written. I think sometimes it goes OTT with the class thing - no actually all the time. Its a little better since Kevin Myers went to the Indo though.

kowloon

I didn't vote, but if anything the fallout has swayed me against anything the EU say, they don't seem to like the idea of free referenda, and that's not a good basis for any system.