Pup recommendation - King Charles pup or similar with maybe more robust

learnerplates

I'm thinking of getting a dog, something small and friendly, King Charles seems to be top of the pops.
One of the fears I have is that it might be a bit fragile. I'd like a small dog I could bring out running, or out in the countryside at the weekends.
Are King Charles too fragile?
Are there any other recommendations for other breeds?

Also, the dog will be alone most of the day (weekdays) too and we only have small yard, he'll be expected to be able to sleep outdoors (in a kennel of course) at night and during the day. Also in an urban area so can't expected to be loud.

Necronomicon

I'd be careful about getting a King Charles. We had one who died from heart problems - the vet told us it's a problem that a lot of the breed face. If you plan on running a lot with the dog, it could be a problem as he gets older.

learnerplates

I did read that some have a heart murmer, can this be checked out with a vet early on? and is it heriditary?
Would it be reasonable to believe from this that all King Charles have weak hearts and should not be over exercised?

golden

Would think seriously if you can not commit to excercising (even if its only 20 mins) any dog every day and having a dog socialised properly.

learnerplates

golden wrote: »

Would think seriously if you can not commit to excercising (even if its only 20 mins) any dog every day and having a dog socialised properly.

sorry you misunderstand, I will be exercising but am worried the king charles may not be able for exercise.
Anyway any other recommendations or is the King Charles the best choice?

peasant

learnerplates wrote: »

Are there any other recommendations for other breeds?

carwash_2006

Firstly King Charles or Cavalier King Charles are not suited to sleeping outside. They do not have a coat that will keep them warm or protected from the rain.

If you cannot offer some kind of stimulation for the dog during the day I would think very seriously about whether you are suited to having a dog at the moment. How long would you be gone for?

Most dogs that aren't very loud are not suited to outdoor living. Any dog outside and bored during the day is likely to bark, any dog outside and listening to all the outside sounds all night is liable to bark.

learnerplates

maybe the king charles is not for me so. Outdoors it must be and they must be home alone during the day, probably 3 days a week for 2 x 4rs per day, I'll not let work stand in my way though.

Sigma Force

King Charles are especially social dogs and msot often are kept with either another KC or other dog as they need companionship. They are not suitable to be left outdoors it sounds like you may not have the time to give a puppy. Unless you can come home during the day or have a dog walker come in if you work long hours a puppy especially wouldn't be suitable as you have to be there to house train them etc.

If you intend to keep a dog outdoors they are more likely to bark, all the noises of the postie and neighbours coming and going etc.

I am not against people keeping their dogs outside, my two have outside accomodation. However most small breeds aren't suitable for outdoor living, a KC would not suit that situation was going to suggest a Papillion but they cannot be left outside either most small breed dogs were bred to be basically lap dogs, indoor dogs. The only tougher breed I can think of atm are terriers but they love company and are very loyal they have great stamina.

I would not recommend getting a puppy esp. as you are out. Perhaps a young adult terrier that is already used to being left for part of the day.

If the dog is expected to sleep and stay outdoors all day and also at night that doesn't leave much time for socialising with the dog. If you were at home all day it would be different you would really have to have a strict routine and walk the dog in the morning before you leave, walk the dog in the evening and then have lots of play time on weekends and stick to a good routine so the dog knows although it's being left for a good while during the day it knows that come eg 5pm they will be going for a walk.

Lauragoesmad

A king charles is definitely not for you IMO. They are little divas that need lots of attention and do need to sleep inside. I have a 14 year old king charles that I have had since she was 10 weeks. We have been very lucky with ours. She is now the second oldest king charles on our vets books. They are very fragile.
The heart problems that they get are not passed on so there is no way of knowing if you are getting a healthy dog just by knowing the sire and dams medical histories. Also they are prone to throat problems, cataracts, back problems and kidney problems in later years which in a KC can be any age from 6 or 7!
Personnally, even though I love the breed, I would never get one again. I don't think real animal lovers would breed dogs with so many medical problems.
If you are going to get a KC, make sure you get some good pet insurance.

Anyway, whatever you decide, good luck and if you do get a dog, post some pics!:)

hadook

It sounds to me like you want a dog to take running and/or trips out, not so much a dog as part of your family. I mean, you want a dog that will stay outside in a small yard until you're free to take him/her out. And the dog will sleep outside too. And you don't want this (going to be bored senseless left alone for long periods of time) dog to make noise.

Maybe I've got the wrong end of the stick here and you're not just planning to leave a dog out back and expect it to sit patiently waiting for you to have time to bring it for a walk... But that's a "Help my neighbours are complaining about my barking dog" post just waiting to happen as far as I can see.

Do you have any family or friends with a dog? A friend of mine borrows his parents dogs for hikes and running and then the dog goes home to his warm bed in the kitchen with owners who are able to deal with the day to day care. It's a win win situation for everyone involved.

Nickibaby*

Have a King Charles myself, they need ALOT of attention and they are house dogs not for outside. Please don't get one it would be miserable without attention

As another poster mentioned it might be good for you to 'borrow' a dog. I used to get dogs out of the local shelter and bring them for walkies until I got one myself. Or if you want to get a small dog maybe get 2 chiwawas so they could keep each other company. That's what my neighbour does as she is away alot. But i wouldn't know much about the breed, they are such tiny things they would prob need to sleep inside at night.

Really though do think getting a dog through before you get one, they are a big responsibility need lots of attention and are time consuming. Think of when you are away on holidays etc...

learnerplates

Folks thanks for the advice, all you of you sound like true and true dog lovers, although some siding a bit too much on the soft side IMO, I will take your advice but I am getting a pup, the King Charles is not for me.

I've never had a pet (none of my own fault). So it's a matter of picking the correct breed and I making the best efforts to provide companionship for the dog with every spare moment, which I will do, my partner is also very keen and we don't work the same times or days.

Anyway it's back to what breed? how do other's manage as the majority of people work! or are they just not managing? Surely most dogs are left alone for some periods each day!
Terriers I have had some experience with and i do not trust them, too protective and hot tempered, I would be hoping for a good mannered dog too, I am willing to try out a taught training regime to ensure this.
A labradore is my favorite dog but I think they're too big, are they not an option for me?

Rory123

learnerplates wrote: »

Also, the dog will be alone most of the day (weekdays) too and we only have small yard, he'll be expected to be able to sleep outdoors (in a kennel of course) at night and during the day. Also in an urban area so can't expected to be loud.

I am dog mad, but I don't have, and wouldn't have, a dog because I'm in the same situation. I think that any sort of dog that's going to be in a small back garden alone, monday to friday will have a very good chance of developing behavioural issues. Do you think there are any alternatives you could look into?

Sigma Force

It really sounds that you have no clue about dogs jack russel terriers are great dogs and are hardy they are not aggressive. None of them are unless you make them that way or don't socialise them properly.

I think you would be better off borrowing a neighbours or friends/familys dog instead for walks.

Being soft has nothing to do with it it's a cold hard fact dogs are sociable pack animals that's a fact nothing to do with being sentimental or anything.

Rory123

Guineapigrescue wrote: »

I think you would be better off borrowing a neighbours or friends/familys dog instead for walks.

That's one of the alternatives I had in mind. Our neighbours have a dog that I can have a bit of craic out of whenever I want. I also go home to my parents to see our family dog, who I've grown up with. There has got to be someone you know that would be happy to let you take their dog to the beach or up the mountains on a weekend.

learnerplates

Rory123 wrote: »

I am dog mad, but I don't have, and wouldn't have, a dog because I'm in the same situation. I think that any sort of dog that's going to be in a small back garden alone, monday to friday will have a very good chance of developing behavioural issues. Do you think there are any alternatives you could look into?

There's no alternative I'm afraid it's either do or don't. If I know of anyone with a dog who are going on hols or something in the coming weeks I'll be sure to ask if we can mind him but I really want a dog.
I might go down to the ISPCA today and talk to someone about this, and maybe they have dogs who need minding, I'd be afraid I end up bringing one home for good though.

learnerplates

Guineapigrescue wrote: »

It really sounds that you have no clue about dogs jack russel terriers are great dogs and are hardy they are not aggressive. None of them are unless you make them that way or don't socialise them properly.

I think you would be better off borrowing a neighbours or friends/familys dog instead for walks.

Being soft has nothing to do with it it's a cold hard fact dogs are sociable pack animals that's a fact nothing to do with being sentimental or anything.

Terriers are lovely dogs I know but my experience with them has been slightly different than yours, my grandfather always had them, I had great fun with them but I do remember some tense moments with other kids, I think it was a protection thing. Terriers are very tough too aren't they?

learnerplates

Rory123 wrote: »

That's one of the alternatives I had in mind. Our neighbours have a dog that I can have a bit of craic out of whenever I want. I also go home to my parents to see our family dog, who I've grown up with. There has got to be someone you know that would be happy to let you take their dog to the beach or up the mountains on a weekend.

ah you've had your own family dog, you're not as desperate as me;)

Rory123

Yeah I've grown up with many dogs... the one that's left just outlived all the rest (he's only a little younger than me).
It's understandable that you are desperate for a dog but you should really listen to what everyone is saying. If you get any breed of dog in your current situation it will turn out bad. He will be a very badly behaved dog and you will find it hard to bond with him, but that is not the dog's fault. It's not what you want to hear but I'm afraid that it's the truth.
If you get a pup and remain in your current situation I would be very suprised if you still have it in 18 months.
I wish that everyone could experience having a dog, if we did the world would be a better place... but its just not right for people like me and you at the minute.

Morganna

Cavaliers are inside dogs .They are also energetic and not fragile .My dogs where exercised everyday on the beach even swimming .They need company and love.

mary123

I have 4 cavaliers and yes while they do suffer from their hearts they are not a fragile dog, as all though they are classed as toy breed they are at the large end, and many can be quiet big. Saying that they are not a breed that can be thrown out the back and just left as they thrive on human company.

learnerplates

mary123 wrote: »

I have 4 cavaliers and yes while they do suffer from their hearts they are not a fragile dog, as all though they are classed as toy breed they are at the large end, and many can be quiet big.

I've been looking at some photos alright and some of them look big but I think a tricky heart means a fragile dog, I wouldn't plan on running the legs of them or anything so it's not really an issue but a tougher dog which can sleep in a kennel is required for me.

mary123 wrote: »

Saying that they are not a breed that can be thrown out the back and just left as they thrive on human company.

Thrown out in the back yard I think not, just sleeep at night in an outdoor kennel and only without human company during the day for 24hrs (broken up)a week.

bigpinkelephant

Learnerplates I don't mean to be blunt but you sound very cold about this- you basically "expect" a dog to do this, that or the other, things which are completely against its nature... i.e. being alone for hours on end... you don't seem to be willing to give much leeway.
Buying a dog is not like buying a new T-shirt in which you select the style/breed for you and then leave it in the wardrobe/garden until it suits you to take it out...

You say that you have never had a pet before- I don't think keeping an animal like a dog, that requires a lot of work, is going to be a good start for you, considering you are going to keep it in a way that is not natural to it.
You don't seem to realise that animals have needs and wants that may not fit in your schedule... There is no "off" button...

Surely you can consider another type of animal?

mary123

Have to disagree with what u say. Sleeping outside for what 8 hrs a night and then again while ur at work IS been thrown outside. If ur getting a dog be it a Cavalier or a St Bernard why cant it sleep inside and stay in for the 4 hrs while ur at work. Not only as others said u could end up with a problem dog but also a dog that in a yr could end up in the pound. If ur afraid the dog is going to wreak the place u can always get a x-pen which is like a babys pen to keep him safe while ur not around to supervise. Also the dog would be a target for theft.
Like others have said maybe a dog is not for u at this point. U have to put the welfare of the dog first.

learnerplates

I am a bit cold you maybe right, I'm not used to urban pets, the pets I've seen have mostly lived outside and are expected to be able to spend time alone.
I don't understand what the difference is between a dog sleeping in cozy kennel outside and sleeping inside is, he will be alone either way, I can see problems with small dogs alright but hardier breeds should have no issue from what I can see.
As for the daytime alone, it'll be another 30yrs before I am home during the day should I wait till them to get my first dog?

animalcrazy

I don't think a dog is for you. A dog needs to have someone there for most of the day. Please don't be selfish by thinking of your own wants and not the dogs needs. Alot of the people on here know what they are talking about and rescue dogs all the time so you should listen to them. I'm just speaking of experience, I'd don't remember any time of my life where I didn't have a dog. Believe me the dog won't just co-operate with you because you want it to. If you still insist on getting a dog definatly don't get a puppy. Get a dog that is middle aged so it won't be so hyper. Why can't the dog sleep inside? They can be house trained you could get a middle aged dog that is already house trained. You still have lots to learn about dogs and you should use google to look up information at least two weeks before you get the dog.

kerrysgold

I think you should try fostering dogs for a while first, for a taste of reality of nothing else! dogs are living creatures, you don't just play with it for an hour during the day and leave it like a toy.

a puppy is certainly not for you, you need to be at home nearly all of the time to put time into training and socializing the puppy. also, what is the point in having a dog at all if it's going to be outdoors all the time? when you get a dog, it is supposed to be a part of the "pack" as it would with other dogs (the "pack" being the family)

as I've asked before, why do you want the dog to sleep outside anyway?

it's nothing to do with being "soft" it's not neglecting an animal! I'd rather be "soft" and have healthy, happy dogs than be "tough" and have a couple of miserably lumps sitting on the doorstep or in a kennel cold an lonely and miserable! I think a dog is better of being put down rather than being subjected to up to 20 years of misery!

personally I think you are being selfish, your going to get a dog because you want one whatever you're lifestyle is suitable for caring for a dog properly or not? I'm afraid I agree with peasants suggestion if so!

mary123

learnerplates wrote: »

I am a bit cold you maybe right, I'm not used to urban pets, the pets I've seen have mostly lived outside and are expected to be able to spend time alone.

As for the daytime alone, it'll be another 30yrs before I am home during the day should I wait till them to get my first dog?

I wouldnt say a bit cold. And yes with ur atittude i think u should wait another 30 yrs before u own a dog as at the moment no way should a dog be left with u. U aint got the since to own one.

learnerplates

Alright folks, thanks for all your responses I will take them into account.
I talked to someone in the local ISPCA yesterday, I'm going to take a trip to the pound next weekend to see what I can do for them and hopefully I can get my hands on a dog for some days to walk etc.

BTW, I'd have a dog sleeping with me in the bed if I could but I'm renting and the agreement I've made with the landlord is that if I ever do get a dog I'll sleep it outside, the house does not have the facilities to cater for an indoor sleeping space for a dog.

Thanks again.

animalcrazy

learnerplates wrote: »

I can do for them and hopefully I can get my hands on a dog for some days to walk etc.

I know that you are probably just going to go and get a dog anyway no matter what we say or any of the people here who have rescued dogs for years from homes like yours where the dog ends up lonely and neglected or handed over to them because he keeps barking and the neighbours are complaining. Just walk the dogs from the local shelter. That way you won't have to leave them for most of the day and you are doing a great favour for the dogs you walk. You really aren't in the position to get a dog at the moment and you have to accept it.

bigpinkelephant

learnerplates wrote: »

I don't understand what the difference is between a dog sleeping in cozy kennel outside and sleeping inside is, he will be alone either way

And that is the problem. You can't leave a dog alone for hours on end and expect them to be happy and not bark.

learnerplates wrote: »

I can see problems with small dogs alright but hardier breeds should have no issue from what I can see.

All dogs need company, regardless of their size.

learnerplates wrote: »

As for the daytime alone, it'll be another 30yrs before I am home during the day should I wait till them to get my first dog?

Yes, hopefully by then you will also have realised that dogs are not robots and that other living beings have needs besides you.

learnerplates wrote: »

I'm renting and the agreement I've made with the landlord is that if I ever do get a dog I'll sleep it outside.

Well that's even worse. Say you get a dog- against everyone's advice- and the dog is miserable at being stuck on his own for hours on end and starts barking, and the neighbours complain. Is your landlord going to be happy with that?

learnerplates wrote: »

the house does not have the facilities to cater for an indoor sleeping space for a dog.

What if the dog is ever injured or sick, is it going to be left outside still? Injury/illness may not be in line with your "expectations" and "requirements" but again, dogs don't have an "off" switch.

animalcrazy

Everything has been summarised for you in that last post, if you still get a dog then you are seriously selfish or have no cop on. And I'm a 15 year old and know better!

kerrysgold

You are making the choice to get a dog, you don't NEED a dog, yet you are expecting to get one and make it live in unsuitable conditions because you want one? extremely unfair and selfish. Why don't you just volunteer like another poster suggested? You could easily go to you're local SPCA and spend you're spare time helping dogs, take them out for a walk, spend time grooming them etc.

really, unless you are prepared to treat a dog as a member of the family (i.e. letting it sleep indoors and not leaving it alone for more than a couple of hours a day!) and have a nice garden to let the dog into (doesn't necessarily need to be big, a lot of people have to make do with an average semi detached houses garden) then you should just stick to volunteering until you are in a better situation.

as you are now, the dog is going to be alone for approx. 12 hours a day right? (that's while you're in bed and at work, assuming you would actually bring him indoors while you were there, and not just spend time with him while you're out walking?)

It is slightly more acceptable IMO to keep a dog if you have to work if you are willing to get a pair of dogs to keep each other company and also hire a dog walking to break up their day if you are away more than a few hours each day.

are you really willing to put all the time and effort into training and socializing the dog?

It's pretty much guaranteed that if you have a dog outside in a yard with not much attention and no proper training or socializing you WILL end up with a dog that has serious issues! and I'm talking from experience, not being "soft"

animalcrazy

Since you have never had a dog volunteering might help you understand them better since you don't have a clue how a dog behaves or their needs. Another thing is you said your landlord said you can't bring a dog into the house? So does that mean you would never be bringing the dog inside? If so I wouldn't even consider getting a dog.

learnerplates

Again thanks for the adivce but I can see everyone here is very very one sided, I'm sure ye have all seen real life stories of neglect etc and so I understand.
I'll take all of yere advice, I'll not get a dog just yet.
But keep in mind people on high horses fall off!!! not all people can afford to stay at home and mind their pets and not all pet stories are perfect like most things but people and animals still manage to be happy, if we didn't do things we wanted to because the circumstances were not perfect at the time then we'd never progress.
I'd bet for every story of an unhappy dog there are also at least 2 which are happy, I've many friends and people I know with dogs and they seem well balanced and happy, anyway I'm going to side on the conservative and hold off for a few more months at least until I find out more.
BTW,The dog would be indoors when we're around but outdoors at night and for a couple of days during work hours as i've explicitly expained in earlier posts.
I think you've all made yere points and I'm sure all of you with dogs spend every moment with them, I hope ye have as much respect for yere friends, families and neighbours.
Thanks.

Whispered

Hey LP, you obviously really badly want a dog, something I totally sympathise with. I've been thinking about getting one for ages. Do you realise the amount of good you can do with that much love to give and that much determination? Why not volunteer at the pound to walk them. There's no reason not to have a dog in your life just because you're not in a position to own one full time

To say people here are one sided is a bit inaccurate. The people here know what they are talking about. They are not giving you opinions, they are giving you facts, facts are not one sided, they are just facts. You asked for advice, and these people really are the best people to give you advice.

There was a thread here a while back, a woman had taken pups from a charity I used to work with. 2 amazing little things, one looked like a fox . Basicially gave them the sort of life you're talking about giving yours. Came on here 1 year later trying to get rid of them as they were uncontrollable.:( I personally was heart broken, as people the charity gave dogs to were vetted strongly, yet we'd obviously made a mistake. This woman had the best of intentions, the dogs didn't behave as expected and she got rid of them due to "personal circumstances" this usually translates as couldn't be bothered anymore.


I would be wary of getting a dog when renting as from experience, landlords can change their minds at any time, you're then left with a dog to rehome. It happened to me with my cats, we had to move because the landlord was trying to make me rehome them!

learnerplates

Thanks Helena.
I agree that renting is not the best circumstances for getting a pet and we've plenty of cats hanging around to keep us company.:p
I'm going to give the GSPCA a hand, I'll see what I can do for them, the pound is an hour out of town but I'll make the effort and see how it goes.

animalcrazy

That's a good choice! At least you listened to the advice we gave you. My dog was pregnant when we got her and we gave two of our puppies to my uncle who we thought would give them a really good home. He left them out the back like you will if you get a dog and they barked all night long and totally destroyed the back garden, and there were two of them, they had company but that still isn't enough for dogs. I think you should just volunteer and wait until you have more time and your own house or a house where you are aloud to keep animals. If you ever move house ask the landlord are you aloud to have pets, be it next year or in thirty years before you can get a dog!