Spray Foam

gsxr1

I have been toying around with idea of buying spray foam equipment with the intention of getting out of Constrution and getting into the insulation business.

There seems to be very little people in the business in my county.

I could see this become very popular in the future when the energy rating system comes into full swing soon.

the gear is pricey.

Would there be a future in it.

What should I be studying?

what yas think?

gally74

think spray foam is used mainly in new builds, once offs,

not a great time to be launching any buinsess in construction unless your prepared to really put the hrs in,

RKQ

Spray foam insulation may become popular once it gets an Irish Agg Cert.
I can see its advantages in certain new build and retrofit. I understand it can be used to insulate between roof rafters and hold in loose slates.

I understand that it is used to fill old petrol storage tanks in disused garages etc. This might be a commercial use.

Contact the manufacturers, to get an idea of the advantages and uses of the material and see if there is potential in the future.

The construction industry has slowed from the crazy pace of last year. If there is a long term downturn, then retro-fit and refurbishment will be more popular than new build. There may well be oppertunities for those prepared to work hard with a accredited product / system.

Do your homework.

bbam

Hi..
I was considering this for our ongoing build... when I "really" pressed the supplier he admitted that to get decent U-values it would work out much more expensive than other alternatives... He said its main business was renovations where the stability of the spray on underside of older roofs would be a big attraction..
See how it goes....

gsxr1

I was counting on attic conversions . The closed cell air tight foam would really work well acting a vapour barrier as well as insulation. I have read that its 3 times beater per inch that fiberglass.

this is all still in my head at the min. But could have potencial. Especially as people and extending now instead of building.. I know this.

the developer I work with has had me doing demo on an old barn for the last week instead of carpentry. There is so little work out there . I have to do it. I dont really like it. In fact demo work is horrible .

I need to try something new.

renovation is at the minute very popular.

Martron

whats the price per instalation versus the price of the gear.

its really up to you wether its worth it. but fair play to you for thinking of it. if you are the only one around in your county my advice would be to price jobs that you would think of doing using another company which will do it then use that price as a benchmark..... then undercut it if you can.


hope all goes well man. it tough out there........i am on the crap side now hence the free time to post!!!!

gsxr1

between 30k for a basic set up to 52k for a proper rig which includes a big trailer that's ready to go.(without chemicals)

apparently my hiace van would not be big enough for all the gear.

big investment.

more homework and advise needed.

I would have to come in cheaper than the establised companys out there is there was any chance of a good start.

foamcutter

Some of those spray rigs can be used to spray other materials Polyurea. Epoxies etc They are used to prevent corrosion, or seal an area and other applications. Their could be other markets out their separate from the construction sector.

Builderfromhell

I'm convinced any business based on insulation would succeed in the future. I have been considering going into the insulation business myself but have too many other things going on. Good luck.

gsxr1

Builderfromhell wrote: »

I'm convinced any business based on insulation would succeed in the future. I have been considering going into the insulation business myself but have too many other things going on. Good luck.

thanks.


any info would be greatly appreciated. I dont want to offer up my house to the bank unless I have wide open eyes.

quietsailor

gsxr1 wrote: »

I have been toying around with idea of buying spray foam equipment with the intention of getting out of Constrution and getting into the insulation business.

There seems to be very little people in the business in my county.

I could see this become very popular in the future when the energy rating system comes into full swing soon.

the gear is pricey.

Would there be a future in it.

What should I be studying?

what yas think?

Hi gsxr1,

I don't know if this is of any use to you but I bought an old house in Cork city in '99. The slates weren't in the best condition so I had the underneath/inside of the slates sprayed with foam. The only problems i saw were that the old excess lime that the slates were set into had to be removed and that they needed extra long hoses to get from the road to my house.Its still there and I would reccomend it to anybody, it
1. held the slates together,
2. acted as a vapour barrier
3. added insulation to the roof.

If I was converting an attic again in an old house I would use this in a heartbeat. Surely with people being more cautious with their money now and investing in their present house ratherr than upgrading there will be a market in this.

Q: Have you investigated the U-values of the foam.
Q: Can you advertise somewhere there is a tie into the BER rating that will be required by houses being rented or sold from Jan 2009. I'm not in the construction industry so I don't know how big a market it will create but it sounds like the government will push it through.
Q: From an engineering point of view
1. How easy is it to get spare parts - does the vendor stock them or do they have to come in from eg Asia
2. How long is the guarantee - parts and labour/parts only
3. Can you talk to somebody who has one already, maybe they will give you advice the vendor won't.
4. Servicing costs - are there any, how often, can you service it yourself or has it to be serviced by the vendor/approved repair company (this is often linked to keeping your guarantee).
5. Can the foam get hard within the pipes, can it be removed easily if so - what solvents are needed, how much do they cost.

Hope some of that helps.

ben49

Spray foam insulation out-performs fibreglass by 5 time and Kingspan foam backed plasterboard by 2.5 times.

Timbers, felt or other breathable material, will need to be removed or left open to breathe it if you want to use closed cell foams otherwise they will rot.

Open cell foams are a lot less expensive and they still breathe, so no removals needed and timbers can be totally covered for a far better air barrier. However they do not prevent water getting through, so you must use a breathable waterproof membrane such as Tyvek.

I've just put in an order for the machinery and the foam from a company in <SNIP>. There are others out there who you might be interested in, I only went with them as they deal with the market leader in America, plus they were a lot cheaper for the foam than the others.

Hope this helps & good luck...



Mod edit: Company/business names are not allowed. I have reservations about this post but I will give you the benefit of the doubt. Read the charter before posting again.

Now thats 2 posts in 6 minutes that are dodgy - any more and red cards are going to be waved.

gsxr1 wrote: »

I have been toying around with idea of buying spray foam equipment with the intention of getting out of Constrution and getting into the insulation business.

There seems to be very little people in the business in my county.

I could see this become very popular in the future when the energy rating system comes into full swing soon.

the gear is pricey.

Would there be a future in it.

What should I be studying?

what yas think?

Lex Luthor

I've just started looking into this aswell and trying to get a price for it

Does anybody have any rough price guides?

I was looking to insulate my attic roof on a 12yr old semi d. I just has a quick look and rough estimates for the area of the total roof is about 140sq meters

sydthebeat

Lex Luthor wrote: »

I've just started looking into this aswell and trying to get a price for it

Does anybody have any rough price guides?

I was looking to insulate my attic roof on a 12yr old semi d. I just has a quick look and rough estimates for the area of the total roof is about 140sq meters

do not use a product that doesnt have IAB or BBA certification....

Lex Luthor

sydthebeat wrote: »

do not use a product that doesnt have IAB or BBA certification....

whats that for?

RKQ

Lex Luthor wrote: »

whats that for?

Spray foam has its merits but shouldn't be used until it is fully tested in Irish conditions.

Once it is independently tried and fully test it will receive a certificate from an Independent Body.

This body is IAB in Ireland or BBA in Britain. It would be fool-hardy to use an un-tested material. As an Installer you could become liable if it failer or caused damage ie dry rot etc!

I am also weary of miacle materials, as there claims can be quite fantastic and usually unproved!

Out-performs fibreglass by 5 time and Kingspan foam backed plasterboard by 2.5 times. :rolleyes::)

seanybiker

mother and father got the house done with some spray stuff a while back. Drill holes and inject stuff in. Bloody house is roasting all the time now

Poor Uncle Tom

seanybiker wrote: »

mother and father got the house done with some spray stuff a while back. Drill holes and inject stuff in. Bloody house is roasting all the time now

I think you may be referring to pumped insulation, not spray.

Lex Luthor

seanybiker wrote: »

mother and father got the house done with some spray stuff a while back. Drill holes and inject stuff in. Bloody house is roasting all the time now

can you post up the compnay they used and have you any idea how much it cost?

muffler

Lex Luthor wrote: »

can you post up the compnay they used

I think thats called entrapment

Lex Luthor

Lex Luthor wrote: »

can you PM me the compnay they used and have you any idea how much it cost?

Fixed it for yer...

sinnerboy

seanybiker wrote: »

mother and father got the house done with some spray stuff a while back. Drill holes and inject stuff in. Bloody house is roasting all the time now

Clarify please - do you work for that insulation company ?

Lex Luthor

sydthebeat wrote: »

do not use a product that doesnt have IAB or BBA certification....

any opinion on this open cell foam?

http://www.futurefoam.ie/InternalInsulation.htm

harly1516

Hi I have an old cottage my self and looked at this but got turned off by the idea of if I needed to do repairs theres some cleaning off the slates timbers etc a really slow job then no cert, but there are still alot of companys offering it very cheap to theres also diy packs again its very cheap and they travel round the country so think twice and hard before putting a lot of cash into something that there is no shortage of in these times of slow down do a lot of research

sinnerboy

Lex Luthor wrote: »

any opinion on this open cell foam?

http://www.futurefoam.ie/InternalInsulation.htm

Might be fantastic . But we are familiar in this industry with new wonder products that in practice and / or when tested are not all they claim to be

So as syd said - if no IAB or BBA cert - use at your own risk

gman2k

Icynene were in today's Indo saying they have achieved BBA certification...

sinnerboy

gman2k wrote: »

Icynene were in today's Indo saying they have achieved BBA certification...

No sign of it yet

http://www.bbacerts.co.uk/query3.html

sydthebeat

http://www.designbuild-network.com/contractors/construct_materials/icynene/press13.html

its reported...

but no sign yet....

im interested to see the sd values!!!!

RKQ

Lex Luthor wrote: »

any opinion on this open cell foam?

http://www.futurefoam.ie/InternalInsulation.htm

No offence but if I'm investing my hard earned cash in insulation I'd like the reasurance of a IAB certificate.

I'd have no interest in a "company" with no landline phone number or address! (Dublin is a big place):rolleyes:

Nice web page but why no landline? (fax, address or vat number)
Buyer beware.....

muffler

RKQ wrote: »

No offence but if I'm investing my hard earned cash in insulation I'd like the reasurance of a IAB certificate.

I'd have no interest in a "company" with no landline phone number or address! (Dublin is a big place):rolleyes:

Nice web page but why no landline? (fax, address or vat number)
Buyer beware.....

Spot on. I'd be worried too.

Lex Luthor

thanks lads....great info there

just spoke to them and they have european certification and are applying for BAB certification

gman2k

RKQ wrote: »

No offence but if I'm investing my hard earned cash in insulation I'd like the reasurance of a IAB certificate.

I'd have no interest in a "company" with no landline phone number or address! (Dublin is a big place):rolleyes:

Nice web page but why no landline? (fax, address or vat number)
Buyer beware.....

No offence either, but if a company has done the hard work to get a BBA cert, then the lack of the IAB cert would not bother me. BBA is where the real work is done.
It's like saying something meets British Standards, but I'm still not happy....
Let's face it, some people here don't, and won't ever trust this type of insulation. (Again no offence to RKQ or to other contributors)

mad m

Sure anyone who has seen Homes on Homes on Discovery channel uses it in some of his shows....Amazing stuff....

RKQ

gman2k wrote: »

No offence either, but if a company has done the hard work to get a BBA cert, then the lack of the IAB cert would not bother me. BBA is where the real work is done.
It's like saying something meets British Standards, but I'm still not happy....
Let's face it, some people here don't, and won't ever trust this type of insulation. (Again no offence to RKQ or to other contributors)

No offence taken, I don't think you read my post on this thread.:)

Page 2 "Once it is independently tried and fully test it will receive a certificate from an Independent Body. This body is IAB in Ireland or BBA in Britain. It would be fool-hardy to use an un-tested material"

Glulam

Spray foam has been used for over 20 years in the US and is by far the most common type of insulation used over the pond. Is there a real issue here if this product has demonstrated its fitness for purpose over a long period.
Are there vested interests at work here in Ireland to ensure that these spray foam products do not get certification from the IAB.
I am not extholing the merits of one insulation over another but just making a point that a perfectly good product has not been certified by either the IAB or the BBA.

RKQ

I doubt there is anything "odd" going on at IAB or BBA.
Nobody is suggesting that foam is not a good product.

It is untested in Irish conditions - damp moist winters with wind driven rain.
There are products that have been sucessful on other continents but have failed in our climate. Homebond are quite strict on this also.

Houses in the US have a designed life span of approx 20 years while it is 50 or 60 years in Ireland. So one can't compare materials or designed life-spans.

IMO Untested materials have no right to "compare" themselves to tried and independently tested materials. These companies tend to claim miracle properties but fail to have their material independently tested.
Why do you think this is?

sinnerboy

http://www.bbacerts.co.uk/query.idq?CiRestriction=icynene&CiScope=/certs/&CiMaxRecordsPerPage=10&TemplateName=query&CiSort=FileName[a]&HTMLQueryForm=query3.html

Glulam

I take your point that irish climatic conditions are unique wrt to driving rain and dampness.
However I am curious to know the IAB actually verifies that the products they have certified will actually perform over a period of 50 years.

for example for rigid board type insulation (kingspan/Xtratherm) have they used some sort of fancy algorithim to forecast the actual weather pattern over the next 50 years and somehow come up with the conclusion that the insulation products they have certified will out perform all other types including sprayfoam, hemp or wood fibres. I very much doubt it!!!!!

Correct me if am wrong but I would guess that most of the insulation products accredited by both the IAB & BBA have been given in the last 10 years which is hardly a long enough period to judge a insulation product.

RKQ

Fact - Materials in houses in Ireland are expected to have a life span of 50 years. I understand your point glulam, as its a fair one. Maybe it would be wise to take all "miracle claims" with a pinch of salt... nobody knows how new boards will react over time.

Asbestos used to be the "miracle" material until we realised its dust was cancerous. Who knows what the future holds.... use common sense and take care..... do take accreditation into consideration.

Any material tested to destruction by IAB or BBA, our independent standard, must have merit over an untested material.:)

The material being discussed has been around for years, its mainly used for refurbishment, yet it remains uncertified! - Why is this??????

sinnerboy

The building regulations facilitate new materials or systems in a well , regulated , manner

See here - for what constitutes proper materials - in LAW - and understand the importance of certification - Irish , British or European - none other

http://www.environ.ie/en/Publications/DevelopmentandHousing/BuildingStandards/FileDownLoad,1643,en.pdf

sydthebeat

It is also VITAL to understand that if a product i sused that does not have proper certification IT MUST BE IGNORED from a BER point of view, and a building reg compliance point of view.

Imagine spending 5-7k on spray soy foam insulaton, only to be told that you end up with an F rated houe and a house that cannot be certifed... possibly even holding up mortgage payments.