Is this bad parenting?

positron

Hi!

New around here, apologies if this is a silly question!

I live in a semi-d and my neighbours are a young family with a few kids (at least two of them are their own, a six year old girl and four year old boy). Thanks to the paper thin partition wall, I hear a lot of what’s going on next door. The whole family are loud. They REALLY know shout and the children REALLY know how to scream, which I have got used to since.

Now, I am not sure of about their religious inclinations, but as far I can see, children are not allowed outside on Sundays. Most of the Sundays, I noticed these two kids standing by their bedroom window for the whole day (locked up may be?) with no adults around, and many Sundays I have heard the mother of the children shouting at the top of her voice "eeeff jju think Ijam your motherr andd eeff jjuu haff faith, no muzikk today orr the only muzik in this houze iz of jeezuz, he iz watching, remember dhat" shortly before driving off to somewhere.

Couple of days ago, I came home and noticed all sorts of stuff spilled all over their driveway, some stuck under the first floor window etc, and the young one was in the process of throwing out his cloths, pillow, duvet etc - anything he can get his hands on I suppose, through the window. I was not sure if any of the adults were in, or knew what was going on, and I was also afraid that the 4 year old might jump out of the window himself (12-14 foot fall to the cobble-locks below). So, I went up to their door, rang the bell, the mother of the child came out and noticed what was going on. The boy also came running down, and before I knew it - whack - she landed him a huge one at his back with the palm of her hand. Obviously the boy was in tears and bending backwards trying to reach his back, I am sure his skin was stinging like hell!

Now is the above a case of bad parents & poor children deserving better. Or is it just 'their culture' and probably politically correct to leave it to them?

Let me add, I have no experience parenting, and I myself grew up in a different country (and I still remember how my mom used to whack me when I get up to mischief – hmm, like a number of times every day, especially so on weekends and holidays – well, to be perfectly honest, she still does it, even if I am now double her size, its just not that sore anymore though! )

Thanks for reading and your for your thoughts!

The Hill Billy

OP - Don't take this the wrong way, but I can't really see the purpose of your post.

The family next door to you appear to behave in a way other than "the norm" (whatever that may be).
The mother gave the kid an almighty smack. Most kids probably get one at some stage of their lives.

IMO - what you saw is not hard evidence of systematic mental or physical abuse. But if you feel that it is - are you looking for suggestions from this forum as to what to do? Call the cops or call the HSE if you think it is worth reporting. Personally, I wouldn't - & that's not because of any thoughts of 'political correctness' - it's because it is none of my business.

bored and tired

positron, if you are very concerned and think that the 4 and 6 year old are getting regular hard slaps ie sreaming & crying a lot, visible bruises and that the children are being left alone on sundays then ring up your local hse office and ask to be put through to a duty social worker, you dont need to give them your name just say you want to remain anonymous, tell them your concerns, address of family and name if you know it. they will investigate and take any action that they deem necessary. as well as keeping the info on file to compare to any future referrals by a gp or school.

snellers

the only issue I see is if the kids appear with marks on them or are physically left in the house on their own for extended periods (and you are 100% sure there isn't a responsible adult)

locked in their room?
smacking used as discipline?
jesus freak?
shouting?

all normal IMO

be very very careful when it comes to reporting them - how would you feel if your parenting was unjustly reported.....be 110% you are sure

Redpunto

Yeh shouting i wouldnt be worried about but if you feel there is abuse going on or the children are being left in the house by themselves then get on to your local welfare office.

January

It may be just their culture.

My own experience was of one when I was in church one Sunday, while the service was going on we had four rooms in the building that were called "childrens chapels" and every week different volunteers were rostered to look after the children. I was in the middle age group (4-7) looking after some children with another volunteer and a child started to act really strange, running against the walls and shouting at the top of his voice and when something like that happened, we were advised to get the parents to handle it.

So one of us left the room to get the parent and when his father came in, he took a shoe out of a bag (a ladys flat sandal, not a flip flop but a wooden sandel) and hit the child with it a couple of times. Then he gave the sandel to me and told me to hit him again if he acted up, of course I told him I wasn't going to do that, so he just left the child sitting in the corner and left the room to go back to church.

positron

Thanks for the comments everyone!

Hill Billy, apologies if the purpose of the post was not very clear, but looks like you in fact did notice the point. As I said, I don't really know whats norm, whats recommended and whats tolerated etc here. So I was just trying to assess if what I saw next door where, well, norm or tolerated or should I be calling someone about it etc.

BoredAndTired, thanks - I didn't know it would be HSE or Guards to contact, but I am sure either would have directed me to the right place anyway. Thanks though.

snellers, I see your point, but I thought you are not allowed to lock up a child? Or is it just the UK (I remember that mentioned in Supernanny / Jo Frost). And you are right, I would mighty p*ssed if a nosy neighbour tried to force his/her idea of parenting on me!

adrieanne____x, strange story indeed. Running into walls like that surely is a sign of something bad, but I suppose the parent's reaction kinda gives clues to why the child behaves that strange!

Anyway, I have to say the children are generally healthy and I have never seen any bruises or signs of 'systematic abuse', none that I can see anyway. I suppose I am slightly afraid of extremely religious people that might have affected my idea about them too. (whatever the religion, I don't like those who are extreme about it, and also not allowing children out all Sunday is pretty bad in my books, but thats just my opinion...) . I will keep an open mind and will wait until I am 110% sure of neglect or abuse (like snellers said, make sure no adults around etc) before I act on this!

Thanks again, everyone!

littlebug

If the children were kept in everyday I would be concerned but as said already it's probably a cultural and religious thing about Sundays (and music)...common in many religions, even Catholicism to an extent. You also don't know that they're locked up... maybe the kids are just more comfortable in their rooms or get a better view of outside on the day that they don't go out.

Redpunto

I would find it difficult to accept that hitting a child with a shoe is an acceptable cultural difference?

di11on

adrieanne__x wrote: »

It may be just their culture.

My own experience was of one when I was in church one Sunday, while the service was going on we had four rooms in the building that were called "childrens chapels" and every week different volunteers were rostered to look after the children. I was in the middle age group (4-7) looking after some children with another volunteer and a child started to act really strange, running against the walls and shouting at the top of his voice and when something like that happened, we were advised to get the parents to handle it.

So one of us left the room to get the parent and when his father came in, he took a shoe out of a bag (a ladys flat sandal, not a flip flop but a wooden sandel) and hit the child with it a couple of times. Then he gave the sandel to me and told me to hit him again if he acted up, of course I told him I wasn't going to do that, so he just left the child sitting in the corner and left the room to go back to church.

Crikey,

Whatever about slapping - there can never be any justification for the use of weapons against children!

Khannie

snellers wrote: »

locked in their room?
smacking used as discipline?
jesus freak?
shouting?

all normal IMO

Just laughed out loud at this one.

snellers

well when I say normal I mean 'normal' ....not what I would do lol !!!! :-)

IMO I find it personally wrongful behaviour towards kids but at the same time just trying to make a point that 'normal' is different to different people!!

yeh I laughed myself when I read it again!! :-)

EcoGirl

If the children are left alone AT ALL, never mind extended periods, at that age, it's neglect. I'm not sure of the age at which it's legal to leave a child alone, but I think it's around 12. If you're sure of that, then deffo ring the authorities.

The religious beliefs, e.g. not allowed out on Sundays is not abuse or neglect, no matter how weird we might think it is.

The shouting is also okay no matter how much we mightn't like it.

And the slapping is a grey area. How hard? How often? As other posters have said if there are no bruises etc then it's probably not something the authorities would be concerned about.

Fair play to you for your concern all the same.

Kildrought

If the children are left alone AT ALL, never mind extended periods, at that age, it's neglect.

In and of itself leaving a child alone is not an offence.

I'm not sure of the age at which it's legal to leave a child alone, but I think it's around 12.

There is no legal minimum age in this country at which a child can be left alone.

There is quite a long discussion on this on the thread entitled 'Home Alone'