N11 at Belfield - Caught Speeding

massivemagumbos

Got the letter in the post this morning that I was doing 99 km/h in a 60 km/h zone under the bridge on the N11 Dual Carriage Way at 6.11am! I know I shouldn't have been doing that speed but really think i'm getting hard done by cuz I just keep up with the cars beside me. I'm not in a race like, and its hardly a country road!

However, its my first 2 penalty points, BUT, the car is registered to my dad. Would I be better off tranferring the points onto my own licence? or letting him have them on his licence? i'm 22 yrs old just got my full licence but he's nearly 55 and driving for 30 years.

really pissed off about this so any advice is most appreciated.

*Tripper*

Just take the points, 2 don't really make that much difference.

cast_iron

I'm not sure I see the benefit of your Dad accepting the points. They affect him as much as they do you. Is he foolish enough (on a numver of levels) to take the fall for you? Or are you just going to say nothing about it to him and let them remain on his license?

listermint

massivemagumbos wrote: »

Got the letter in the post this morning that I was doing 99 km/h in a 60 km/h zone under the bridge on the N11 Dual Carriage Way at 6.11am! I know I shouldn't have been doing that speed but really think i'm getting hard done by cuz I just keep up with the cars beside me. I'm not in a race like, and its hardly a country road!

However, its my first 2 penalty points, BUT, the car is registered to my dad. Would I be better off tranferring the points onto my own licence? or letting him have them on his licence? i'm 22 yrs old just got my full licence but he's nearly 55 and driving for 30 years.

really pissed off about this so any advice is most appreciated.

Its not a country road, but 99km/h is still fast for that area. Take them like a man. Its only 2!

highlight100

although you are hard done by in getting the points you should take your medicine and accept the points.

massivemagumbos

no i'm just wondering, he is the registered owner of the car. but i'm the main user. if he takes the points, will the 2 points on his licence affect "our" insurance as an experienced older driver, less so than me taking the points as a young inexperienced named driver?

i looked at hibernian who we are insured with thru AIB. they say 20% discount for no points, 10% for two points. on a 2000 premium thats 200 euro difference so its a good chunk of change!

tdc

take the 2 points, they really wont affect you much but learn from this and dont (get caught at least) do it again.

i often do considerably higher speeds on that same road myself. was it a garda with a speed gun? surely it wouldnt have been a camera?

cabrwab

Nice of your dad to offer!!

No offense OP but iam glad they are doing speed checks along there again, its a known gardai money maker.
At that time of the morning its so dangerous with people whipping by you in bus lane overtaking lane and you could be doing 80kmh. Try taking a right hand turn.

Oh no ive just claimed on the motors HIGH horse!

I would say take the points. But its something you and your dad have to decide.
Be wary of vans parked under bridges!

massivemagumbos

i havent seen the notice, its down in my dad's house, but I've got a picture of my car, front and back, timestamped, so i'm guessing its some sort of semi permanent structure (on or under the bridge).

to be honest, i think i'll just go a different road instead, whole point of going the dual carriage way is to build up a bit of speed, ranelagh or rock road it is for me now! 6.11am though! i see so many dangerous moves from stupid drivers all day, frustrating to get done myself. Ever get that feeling even though u were over the limit, u weren't goin dangerously fast? (i'm not in a suped up saxo with tin can brakes or steering).

can anybody answer this, what will cost more for insurance.

dad with 2 points wit me no points as named driver, or
dad with no points and me with 2 points as named driver. simple as that.

L1011

The whole point of the dual carriageway was to alleviate traffic congestion (hahahaha, very funny, etc, etc); not to allow people to build up speed. If its not the most direct route and you're travelling at 6am, don't bother taking it...

I'd suspect that due to it being 2 points - which is seen as negligable by most insurers - neither scenario will change the price. You as named would be less likely to hit it I'd guess as the assumption is you drive less.

However, which of you is more likely to get additional points in the future?

massivemagumbos

cabrwab wrote: »

Nice of your dad to offer!!

No offense OP but iam glad they are doing speed checks along there again, its a known gardai money maker.
At that time of the morning its so dangerous with people whipping by you in bus lane overtaking lane and you could be doing 80kmh. Try taking a right hand turn.

Oh no ive just claimed on the motors HIGH horse!

I would say take the points. But its something you and your dad have to decide.
Be wary of vans parked under bridges!

MYOB wrote: »

The whole point of the dual carriageway was to alleviate traffic congestion (hahahaha, very funny, etc, etc); not to allow people to build up speed. If its not the most direct route and you're travelling at 6am, don't bother taking it...

I'd suspect that due to it being 2 points - which is seen as negligable by most insurers - neither scenario will change the price. You as named would be less likely to hit it I'd guess as the assumption is you drive less.

However, which of you is more likely to get additional points in the future?

Very good point. This is my first car. And I don't really plan on driving a slower car (this is 190bhp) than this one until the oil runs out. My dad drives thru town, where as I would use motorways and dual carriage ways alot more. He's happy enough to take the points, obviously i'll pay the fine and the increase in the premium if applicable. Thanks for ur input.

bwardrop

Be a man and take the points - you were the one who got caught speeding, not your father. Have you learned anything from being caught? You broke the law plain and simple. Get over it & have some respect - as frustrating as they are at times, speed limits are not there to be interpreted by us as we see fit.

On another, possibly more practical note - does your father have his own car insured in his name? I am not sure if this is still the case, and I'm willing to be corrected - but as far as I know, you may only have one private car insured in your name. By having more than one car insured in a person's name, both policies may be null and void. I think it is a common misconception that parents (or anyone) can insure a second car so a named driver can be the main driver of the second vehicle. I would imagine there are many people in this situation. Can anyone clarify this?

2nd edit - this topic is being discussed in another new-ish thread. No definitive answer there at the moment though. Plenty of people with more than one policy, but no one with a convincing answer either way.

eringobragh

OP .If your aul Lads happy to take them then so be it...

I've the aul one named driver for this purpose if im ever in the situation of the 12 points in 3 years she'll get a few...the aul lad has open drivinf

bwardrop

Just re-read one of the posts by the OP - I take it you do not live with your parents, but that the car is registered in your fathers name? Is it registered at his address for insurance purposes? Sounds like you could be skating on thin ice with this policy - whatever about the two cars in one person's name angle I brought up previously, if the car is not regularly kept at the address on the insurance premium, surely that is falsifying information on the insurance application?

You're 22 and living away from home - should you not cut the apron strings and get your own policy? You are only delaying the inevitable - pay the premium and start to build a no claims bonus in your own name. That will be more cost effective in the long run.

godtabh

massivemagumbos wrote: »

I know I shouldn't have been doing that speed but really think i'm getting hard done by cuz I just keep up with the cars beside me. I'm not in a race like, and its hardly a country road!

That made me laugh.

Take the points. What if you get caught offloading your points. What would that cost you?

Chergar

ye, So you said you dont live where the letter was addressed to. Which would mean that if your the primary user of the car like you said, then it looks rather likely that your insurance is invalid. I had this same problem when i was starting out driving, I could afford the car, but not my own policy. Parents helped me out, and was grand until I got smacked on a roundabout. Insurance company was hiberinan at the time, as it was a roundabout they investigated everything and found out i was the primary user of the car and where it was residing. They invalidated the insurance instantly. I was lucky tho, as the person who crashed into me agreed to settle privately and didnt bring it to the guards. It's changed now tho, because i think its the insurance companies legal responsibility to report you, where as back then it was the 3rd parties. But if you think insurance companies don't investigate things like that, or could never find out. Your very very wrong. They do and will.

bryanmurr

bwardrop wrote: »

Just re-read one of the posts by the OP - I take it you do not live with your parents, but that the car is registered in your fathers name? Is it registered at his address for insurance purposes? Sounds like you could be skating on thin ice with this policy - whatever about the two cars in one person's name angle I brought up previously, if the car is not regularly kept at the address on the insurance premium, surely that is falsifying information on the insurance application?

You're 22 and living away from home - should you not cut the apron strings and get your own policy? You are only delaying the inevitable - pay the premium and start to build a no claims bonus in your own name. That will be more cost effective in the long run.

Yeah think my policy says its kept there 3 or 4 nights out of the week, something like that anyway. Girl in work had hers insured as bein in kerry and while she was livin up here was involved in a tip and the insurance company upped her premium

notahappycamper

Does anyone know how long after you are caught speeding do you receive the letter?

I think I may have been caught by the GATSO van on the M50 just over 2 weeks ago.

eringobragh

notahappycamper wrote: »

Does anyone know how long after you are caught speeding do you receive the letter?

I think I may have been caught by the GATSO van on the M50 just over 2 weeks ago.

Anywhere from a couple of weeks to a couple of months.

notahappycamper

eringobragh wrote: »

Anywhere from a couple of weeks to a couple of months.

Is there anywhere you can check to see if u have any points against your license?

eringobragh

notahappycamper wrote: »

Is there anywhere you can check to see if u have any points against your license?

Unless you've 1)Received a Fixed Penalty Notice 2) Declared the driver and paid a fine you have no points

If you've lost count of your points :pac: you'd have to give the RSA a bell.

Henry Ford III

Insurance may be an issue here, depending on what was disclosed at proposal stage. If OP always was the main driver, with policy and car ownership in father's name merely to reduce the premium, there could well be an issue.

I'm pretty sure the acceptance of penalty points by a person who was not driving at the time of an offence must be illegal too.

Jumps off high horse.

notahappycamper

massivemagumbos wrote: »

Got the letter in the post this morning that I was doing 99 km/h in a 60 km/h zone under the bridge on the N11 Dual Carriage Way at 6.11am! I know I shouldn't have been doing that speed but really think i'm getting hard done by cuz I just keep up with the cars beside me. I'm not in a race like, and its hardly a country road!

However, its my first 2 penalty points, BUT, the car is registered to my dad. Would I be better off tranferring the points onto my own licence? or letting him have them on his licence? i'm 22 yrs old just got my full licence but he's nearly 55 and driving for 30 years.

really pissed off about this so any advice is most appreciated.

What date did the incident happen? I'm just wondering how long it took you to receive the letter from the time it occurred?

extra-ordinary_

notahappycamper wrote: »

Is there anywhere you can check to see if u have any points against your license?

Contact your local motor licence office and they'll give you the details.

kmart6

Be man and take the points!!!! Stop bitching out!!!

You were the one not him, why should he do it?!

OCD

massivemagumbos wrote: »

....I was doing 99 km/h in a 60 km/h zone.....at 6.11am

Dude, you were breaking the law. End of. You weren't just going 10 or 20% over the speed limit, you were breaking it by 65%!!!

Traffic accident analysis shows that most accidents occur at dusk and dawn so techincally, it being 6.11am, is more likely that you would've been in an accident.

massivemagumbos wrote: »

....I know I shouldn't have been doing that speed but really think i'm getting hard done by cuz I just keep up with the cars beside me.

Who's to say they didn't get points too? This hard-done-by attitude of "well he was doing it too!" is ridiculous. If you saw someone shop-lifting would you do it at the same time and then tell the cops "well he was doing it too!"??

Lots of people get caught speeding, doesn't make it right. Be a man and take the points and go easy on the pedal. Nothing is so important that it can't wait a few minutes.

Omcd

Climbing on to a very high horse ....

This safety in numbers thing is so rife its making a mockery of speed limits:mad:. The only thing the Guards can do is start picking people off at random. The more it happens, the less confident people will feel speeding when others around them are doing so, so (in theory at least) the traffic flows will slow down to closer to the speedlimits.

Though, I think the petrol price 'crisis' is achieving that effect anyway from all the crawlers I've been stuck behind in the last while - why dont Guards speed trap motorists going under the limit for no reason, which is actually an offence, inconsiderate driving, carrying two penalty points, there's an 80k limit on my commute, almost every day the last fortnight I've been stuck for miles in queues behind cars crawling at 50 - 60k, and no one near the front of the tight packed queue is bothered enough to overtake:mad:, then get to a 100k limit and same bl00dy thing...

Swerving abruptly back to the original topic, correct me if I'm wrong, but I think there was a time not so long ago if you were caught more than 20mph (or was it 20%) over the limit you were hauled into court on a dangerous driving charge, so OP is getting off relatively lightly with the system as it is nowadays:rolleyes:.

Now cantering up for the treble, how did OP end up getting a pic of both ends of the car ? Doesn't seem to square up with any known Garda technology, from what the traffic corps posters here lead us to believe. Are the privateers up and running now ?

Whooaaa Shergar whoaaaaaa....... ......................THUD !!! (Falls off high horse)

cyclopath2001

Omcd wrote: »

why dont Guards speed trap motorists going under the limit for no reason, which is actually an offence, inconsiderate driving, carrying two penalty points,

It's not that simple. There can be many reasons, some quite legitimate.

If it were as simple as you define, any kind of on-street parking would also be an offense.

Be careful what you wish for.

omb0wyn5ehpij9

Just take the points, you were speeding and got caught....that's all there is to it!

L1011

cyclopath2001 wrote: »

It's not that simple. There can be many reasons, some quite legitimate.

If it were as simple as you define, any kind of on-street parking would also be an offense.

Be careful what you wish for.

Theres quite a distinct difference between parking and driving dangerously slowly, and you know that perfectly well. Please stop trolling.

Johnny Utah

Lol at all the people telling the OP to take it like a man. It's not like he signed up for military duty in Iraq. "Take the points, your country needs you!"



But on a serious note-
OP: was the letter registered?

If not, then just turn up at court and say you never received the letter. The matter will, most likely, be struck out.

Gregor Samsa

Johnny Utah wrote: »

If not, then just turn up at court and say you never received the letter. The matter will, most likely, be struck out.

Yeah, why not add perjury to the two points. :rolleyes:

Johnny Utah

Well, it's worked for many other people. The Op asked for help, and I gave him a practical solution.

In any event, most people with a bit of common sense realise that the speed checks are being conducted on some of the country's safest roads, ie. in order to maximise revenue. Where's the morals there?

You've gotta fight fire with fire.

CtrlSource

This one really grinds my gears! The Guards are still shooting fish in the old Belfield Bridge barrel, eh? :rolleyes:

Why are they so unimaginative in choosing the same locations over and over? i'll tell ye why; they like a sure thing. They know they'll pick off plenty of people going over the limit there and it's a tidy little earner / quota filler for them. The eejits should go setup their trap somewhere that they might actually do some good.

But yeah OP, take the points. No sense in making your old man answer for your misfortune

siralfalot

bwardrop wrote: »

I am not sure if this is still the case, and I'm willing to be corrected - but as far as I know, you may only have one private car insured in your name. By having more than one car insured in a person's name, both policies may be null and void. I think it is a common misconception that parents (or anyone) can insure a second car so a named driver can be the main driver of the second vehicle. I would imagine there are many people in this situation. Can anyone clarify this?

2nd edit - this topic is being discussed in another new-ish thread. No definitive answer there at the moment though. Plenty of people with more than one policy, but no one with a convincing answer either way.

I've two policys on two cars, both Insurance companys know, never a word said to me from either one

C_Breeze

Im reading this thread as a result of Chergars recently locked thread.

Massive magumbos - take the 2 points yourself and have some responsibility for your actions.

Is daddy going to be looking after you for the rest of your life is he? - or rather letting you walk all over him. Cant say I really agree with the little spiel you have goin here with registering your car in your dads name, insuring it under him, getting done for speeding and now trying to pass off the points to him. - but anyway, that's your business.

Im also 22 - I was able to get proper isurance on a proper RX-8 (231 6sp) .. I have 2 points and it made no difference, so It doesnt really matter whether you choose to keep them yourself or pass them on to your dad.

PS. There is no way you got 250kmh out of your 190 on the "autobahn"

bwardrop

C_Breeze wrote: »

Im reading this thread as a result of Chergars recently locked thread.

It was my thread that got locked after Chergars rant. It was getting interesting too

Still, I agree with what he said, just not how he said it !! I was wondering about the car alright - he said here it was 190bhp and that it could handle 250km/h on the autobahn in the other thread... that set the b*llsh*t alarms off alright!!

I get the feeling massivemagumbos has abandoned this thread though. Pity & I hope he follows up about his insurance - otherwise the rest of us may have to pay for his accident, should he have one.

Chergar

Hey guys, C-Breeze and Bwardrop in particular

Just want to say sorry about getting the thread locked. I just got worked up and really infuriated by this. I know it was getting interesting. But hopefully you can understand the bull**** had to be addressed

peasant

Chergar wrote: »

I know it was getting interesting.

No, it wasn't.

It was veering wildly off topic and descending into yet another pointless discussion about speeding

bwardrop

peasant wrote: »

No, it wasn't.

It was veering wildly off topic and descending into yet another pointless discussion about speeding

I appreciate that it (the other thread) was getting a bit off topic (as is this post), but I was finding the discussion about speeding and cameras interesting. The discussion had evolved onto that. This is a discussion forum is it not? I know that Chergars post was out of line, but the rest of us were having a decent debate - I certainly didn't find it pointless. There are plenty of thread across multiple forums here that don't interest me - so I don't keep up with them / post on them. Why was that thread more pointless than anyone else's?

If I wanted to continue the debate, could I open a new thread on speeding, or would that be deemed pointless too?

massivemagumbos

Chergar wrote: »

But hopefully you can understand the bull**** had to be addressed

I wasn't in the Rx8, it's top speed is 220. I was in a delimited E46 M3.

Anyway thanks everyone for your input. I've slowed down to 60km/h on the road and i'm getting flashed, beeped and overtaken by lorries, probably gunna cause as crash driving so slow. At least it wont be me getting the penalty points. And i'll just wait for the system to nab the 99% of ppl going at least 20km/h over the limit, so that in a few centuries everyone will drive at 60.

On the original point, I wasn't asking for moral judgement, I was hoping someone with a bit of insurance experience might be able to do the maths and tell me which option wud be cheaper at the end of the day.

I'm taking the points anyway. Happy safe driving.

Chergar

Oh sorry massivemagumbo's My mistake. It just looked like you were talking about an Rx8. Sorry about that, fairplay for having an M3 at 22. Some achievment, took me ages and a serious amount of bankruptcy before i could afford it. well done.
How much is your insurance on such a car at your age? which way did you go, Rx8 to M3, or M3 to RX8. i cant imagine it was the latter. Anyway sorry for the confusion there.

bwardrop

massivemagumbos wrote: »

This is my first car. And I don't really plan on driving a slower car (this is 190bhp) than this one until the oil runs out.

Sounds like someone is telling porkie pies.... De-limited E46 M3 with 190bhp

peasant

Chergar wrote: »

fairplay for having an M3 at 22.

bwardrop wrote: »

Sounds like someone is telling porkie pies.... De-limited E46 M3 with 190bhp

Nowhere did the OP say that he actually owned the M3 in which he supposedly did the 250 km/h ...did he?

Please stop your fault finding mission, its beginning to look like a personal vendetta.