It's Summer, let's have a go at...

Fajitas!

... Making this forum run better

Just a sticky, asking for your thoughts on how to make this place run better.

If you have any thoughts on better rules in the charter, new rules in the charter, new stickies, etc. Go for it.

Now, I'll just point out, I want constructive advice - this isn't your thread for starting an argument, and I'll not be happy if you use it to that effect. (Read: You'll be taking some time off)

So... Some topics for you to think about:

* C&C threads
* Gear threads
* The Competitions forum (I know this one needs a lot of working on, and there's been some great suggestions)
* Digital Darkroom forum
* Getting rid of all that sports 'photography' sh*te :pac:*

So go on then, if you've any ideas, put 'em up and we'll have a think about it. I'm not promising everything new that's suggested will be brought in, but at least we can have a think about them.

Oh, and I presume there's gonna be a request for a new forum for gear talk as usual. I'm not completely going to discriminate the idea, but if you've any other suggestions, I'm all ears. I would advise you read my previous threads on why I wouldn't like to see it in place though...

I've a point or two I want to bring up, but I'll let the rest of you fire away first... I don't want this to be my personal ranting thread... just yet





*That was a joke, I swear

Paulw

Fajitas! wrote: »

* Getting rid of all that sports 'photography' sh*te :pac:*


I've a point or two I want to bring up, but I'll let the rest of you fire away first... I don't want this to be my personal ranting thread... just yet

Is that the first part of your personal rant? Sports photography???

What if some people talk about street photography sh*te, or gig photography sh*te ????

I thought this was a forum for ALL photography sh*te??

Fajitas!

Read the footnote

melekalikimaka

Fajitas! wrote: »

*That was a joke, I swear

don't appease them sports scum

lets shun them out


unclean unclean

Fajitas!

Right... Lets try keep this a bit serious then.

Ignore my attempt at humour in the OP

Paulw

Fajitas! wrote: »

Read the footnote

Oh I did ... and then ignored it just to give others a chance to rant. LOL.

At first I thought the post was a challenge - It's summer, let's have a go at .... taking picts without cloud/rain? LOL. Or such ideas.

As for the forum itself ... why don't we see about not flaming people?? Some obviously have strong views on some topics, but they also need to respect the choices of other photographers.

Overall, I think the place has been doing fine. Ok, some people are still quoting images, which is annoying.

Fajitas!

I wouldn't say it's flaming posts Paul, I'd moreso say condescending in some threads. But yeah, it's something that I'll bring up later if other posters don't say anything at the moment. (I'm good at opening my mouth, rememeber )

melekalikimaka

wouldnt mind a c and c dedicated forum, maybe an abreviation system for genre of photo

ie

gig - [g]
sports -
animal - [a]


cos tbh i dont like commenting on areas i dont know, this way ya could scan and spot whats your genre sora thing, ideally sub forums but thats not gonna happen

Paulw

Especially when you've a pint to pour down it ??

Some threads/topic got very heater there for a while. I know some people have some right wing views, and to each their own. But people need to respect others.

I do also note some lack of tolerance when people post asking gear advice, especially newbies asking. I know, I know ... they really really should read the FAQ first, but many just don't bother. Frustrating, but we've all been there.

Anyway, hopefully this will be a constructive thread, that will give people a chance to express their views on how the place could improve. Again, my pet hate is quoting photos. :cool:

City-Exile

Always a bit backward in Waterford, doing the Spring Cleaning in July!

I seriously think the "Give Me Camera Advise" threads are nothing but clutter. Since I've already been chastised for suggesting that they get moved to a sub forum, can we move the actual photography threads to sub forum?

It can be really annoying to come back here & see multiple threads, often from the same person, asking for advise on some $65 P&S.

elven

Do we want an O/T thread?

It'd be really nice if people didn't use C&C threads as a dump & run. You should say whether you're looking for technical advice, theme/theory advice, or if you have a specific issue/query abut the image. And if you just want to post so that people can say "gee that's lovely you're a natural" don't hide behind a C&C request...

I'm done.

Fajitas!

Heh.

Yeah, I fully understand where the regulars are coming from with the What Camera threads, but they really are nessicary - We're using a forum open to the public - I think the best we can do is pass on what we know and let them work away. If someone wants to make out a standard response, listing different resources for buying cameras, and post it in the FAQ thread, fire away - Something along the lines of "Check this site, this site and this site for reviews" but make it useful. That way it can be copy & pasted. Please don't list any specific cameras or brands if you are though - This way it can last for a long time, rather than be useless in 2 months time.

(If someone does want to do this, if they wouldn't mind PMing me a draft first, so I've an idea of what is going in there )

If anyone wants to give addition help after this, fire away. But I'd hate for anyone to give wrong advice/take the piss etc because someone is new to the game. I'd really hate if people thought that this forum is full of clique's and ****.


Oh, OT threads? As in, a thread for just chatting - There are a few of them across Boards.ie - Some places find them great... Would you find them useful, or just an extra sticky in the way of the rest of the forum?

City-Exile

melekalikimaka wrote: »

wouldnt mind a c and c dedicated forum, maybe an abreviation system for genre of photo

ie

gig - [g]
sports -
animal - [a]


cos tbh i dont like commenting on areas i dont know, this way ya could scan and spot whats your genre sora thing, ideally sub forums but thats not gonna happen

I don't agree with this at all!
The fact that we get exposure to the various genre, means that our minds are broadened. If you begin to divide the forum into groups, then you run the risk of isolating certain areas of interest.

Most people are good at identifying their pictures in the topic title, so you can easily skip over the sport, etc. The fact that you don't comment, won't be noticed.

There are some people on here who take pictures that I could never invisage & couldn't begin to offer constructive criticisim, but I can still appreciate their talent & enjoy their work. I can learn from them, without seeking to emulate their work.

melekalikimaka

<waits outside with bat for city exile>

Paulw

I wouldn't have an issue with threads being marked as - sport, animal, gig, macro, landscape, portrait, wedding ... etc, etc, etc .... but, where do you draw the line?

I don't think the sections should be broken, but thread topic marker would be ok.

Eirebear

elven wrote: »

It'd be really nice if people didn't use C&C threads as a dump & run. You should say whether you're looking for technical advice, theme/theory advice, or if you have a specific issue/query abut the image. And if you just want to post so that people can say "gee that's lovely you're a natural" don't hide behind a C&C request...

Not sure where your coming from on this one?

Are you asking people NOT to throw up pictures in general?
I fairly often post up shots that ive taken as a general post pretty much saying "have a look at this".
If people want to comment on them be it praise or criticism then great, if not then it falls off the first page and dissapears...no skin off my nose either way.

Are you saying this should be a no-no?

I feel the forum runs fairly well as it is TBH.

AnimalRights

I agree with Paedar, if you use the Photography forum for instance everything is sub divided and I do be too lazy to even enter most of the other forums.

I also think the odd flame should be tolerated.

Fajitas!

City-Exile wrote: »

Most people are good at identifying their pictures in the topic title, so you can easily skip over the sport, etc. The fact that you don't comment, won't be noticed.

There are some people on here who take pictures that I could never invisage & couldn't begin to offer constructive criticisim, but I can still appreciate their talent & enjoy their work. I can learn from them, without seeking to emulate their work.

I have to agree here, members are good at putting a genre into their titles - which is very handy. I think a subforum for C&C would put too much strain on the whole idea of C&C - at the moment it's quite a casual thread type.

melekalikimaka

AnimalRights wrote: »

I agree with Paedar, if you use the Photography forum for instance everything is sub divided and I do be too lazy to even enter most of the other forums.

I also think the odd flame should be tolerated.

but at least you stuff you go to is stuff you'll like

Fajitas!

Eirebear wrote: »

Not sure where your coming from on this one?

Are you asking people NOT to throw up pictures in general?
I fairly often post up shots that ive taken as a general post pretty much saying "have a look at this".
If people want to comment on them be it praise or criticism then great, if not then it falls off the first page and dissapears...no skin off my nose either way.

Are you saying this should be a no-no?

I feel the forum runs fairly well as it is TBH.

I think it's more of a question about people putting up photos for purpose of fishing for compliments, rather than actually looking for critical advice on them. I've often put up a thread before, and stated it wasn't there for C&C, moreso just to show off, which is fair enough (Even I need my ego stroked from time to time ) but if someone is looking for C&C, they actually state they are looking for it, which was brought up in Calina's C&C thread before.

I think if we got a tiny tiny bit stricter on the format of C&C threads it could either go very well, or knock them all together... what think you lot?

Paulw

Yeah, it's a complex one.

Some images I post with a topic of C&C, and some I just post to show too. I think it's nice to be clear when C&C is requested just what you hope to gain from it - composition, technical details/help, etc.

In general, I think the place is running well and is open and flowing.

Eirebear

Fajitas! wrote: »

I think it's more of a question about people putting up photos for purpose of fishing for compliments, rather than actually looking for critical advice on them. I've often put up a thread before, and stated it wasn't there for C&C, moreso just to show off, which is fair enough (Even I need my ego stroked from time to time ) but if someone is looking for C&C, they actually state they are looking for it, which was brought up in Calina's C&C thread before.

I think if we got a tiny tiny bit stricter on the format of C&C threads it could either go very well, or knock them all together... what think you lot?

Thats the thing though, its not just an ego thing when i post up random pictures as i will quite happily take criticism on these shots.
(there are a lot of better photographers than me on here and im more than willing to hear from them etc etc)

Maybe i am wrong on my postings then and i should shove a C&C in the title and take what comes my way?

As for being stricter on the C&C posts....its always going to come back to the same thing isnt it? Wether people can give constructive criticism Vs how people take constructive criticism.

Its hard to come up with a set of rules based around these factors really.

City-Exile

You may not have noticed, Fajitas!, since you love to skip over the sports threads, but it often happens that a few boardsies have been at the same, or linked events. We will then have a thread, which contains submissions from various members. It's not for C&C per se, but I think it adds to the sense of community on this forum.

It would be a shame if such threads were frowned upon.

kensutz

Yeah I think the level of strictness just needs to be upped a bit. Like you said, some people like to show others their work over the weekend etc and we don't put C&C in the title. However if people would like to comment on the photos, most of us would appreciate the advice/criticism.

Some newbies (*Sorry had to be said) just place 1-2 or sometimes 10 photos looking for C&C on them but never give a reason behind taking the photo or what they intend to achieve.

Also I want to do a ban fest so gimme mod status

Fajitas!

Er, City-Exile, I don't know where I said I had a problem with it at all? Nor do I see the problem with me not having an interest in a genre?

It's not a matter of me 'loving to skip over sports threads', and believe it or not, I even have a quick browse through the majority of them. As I said at start of the thread, this is for constructive criticism, not a "The mods don't read every thread". I'd rather we kept it to the constructive comments.

I've even said that in the past I've posted up photos for the sake of doing it. :rolleyes:

melekalikimaka

City-Exile wrote: »

You may not have noticed, Fajitas!, since you love to skip over the sports threads, but it often happens that a few boardsies have been at the same, or linked events. We will then have a thread, which contains submissions from various members. It's not for C&C per se, but I think it adds to the sense of community on this forum.

It would be a shame if such threads were frowned upon.

<cough> chip on shoulder sports photographer < end cough>

how can you tell he skips over them?

ps. feb 2007 join date pssstt newbie:rolleyes:

Paulw

melekalikimaka wrote: »

<cough> chip on shoulder sports photographer < end cough>

Oh come on now, that's a bit harsh.

City-Exile has also posted some interesting landscape, macro, portrait and other type photos here, for C&C.

Ricky91t

Fajitas! wrote: »

Heh.

Yeah, I fully understand where the regulars are coming from with the What Camera threads, but they really are nessicary - We're using a forum open to the public - I think the best we can do is pass on what we know and let them work away. If someone wants to make out a standard response, listing different resources for buying cameras, and post it in the FAQ thread, fire away - Something along the lines of "Check this site, this site and this site for reviews" but make it useful. That way it can be copy & pasted. Please don't list any specific cameras or brands if you are though - This way it can last for a long time, rather than be useless in 2 months time.

(If someone does want to do this, if they wouldn't mind PMing me a draft first, so I've an idea of what is going in there )

I might give this a shot

Fajitas!

Right, any chips in anyones shoulders, there are other places to discuss them.

That includes any problem that City-Exile has with me not getting involved in any threads dealing with sports photography.

Now, if we can get this back on the road, please.

Fajitas!

ricky91t wrote: »

Im might give this a shot

That'd be great Ricky, much appreciated!

stevenolan

If there is a gear forum, or maybe for the stickies, can we have a thread telling new photogs like me, what kind of lenses you should get. Like a graded shopping list of the basics, so say, buy your body, get a fifty, get a tripod, get a flash, look at these for other purposes. I find it difficult to know the difference between an 85mm f1.8 and a 18-55mm f2 in terms of application.

In short, maybe a beginners guide to different lenses, and what they do, beyond the macro and the fifty guide, would be swell.

Fajitas!

Hi Steve.

I think at the moment, the best thing to do would be to just start up a new thread asking what does what! We won't bite if you do. If noone has experience with either of the lenses, there's a great site for reviews here which I usually try to guide people towards, purely because it helped me so much with my purchases when I was starting off. (and still does)

City-Exile

Fajitas! wrote: »

Right, any chips in anyones shoulders, there are other places to discuss them.

That includes any problem that City-Exile has with me not getting involved in any threads dealing with sports photography.

Jaysus, I was taken up completely wrongly here.
I wasn't having a go at you at all.
You have mentioned, in person, that sports threads are a great place to get away with stuff, because the mods often don't bother going near them. I was reusing your joke.

My point was made in general, but through the chair, which happens to be you.
No chip, no dig, just highlighting the type thread which may breach the C&C rules, but is valid none the less.

Sorry for the confusion.

P.

kensutz

Kiss and make up lads :pac:

City-Exile

kensutz wrote: »

Kiss and make up lads :pac:

Na, too many cameras around the place!

duffarama

Any chance of a bit less Canon and Nikon bias??

I've found myself becoming increasingly disillusioned with this place as a result of the above and have been getting cosy with dedicated Olympus forums instead.

Some recognition that all DSLR's can take a good photo in the right hands, that there are other great lens makers.

My 2 eurocent

Eirebear

duffarama wrote: »

Any chance of a bit less Canon and Nikon bias??

I've found myself becoming increasingly disillusioned with this place as a result of the above and have been getting cosy with dedicated Olympus forums instead.

Some recognition that all DSLR's can take a good photo in the right hands, that there are other great lens makers.

My 2 eurocent

I dont think that the ffo is particularly biased as such towards Canon/Nikon.

The only place youll see them being mentioned all the time is within the gear threads, people can only truly reccomemend what they know, and as there are more users of both these brands then it goes without saying that they will be mentioned more often in these types of threads.

When there are threads revolving around actual photographs then there doesnt tend to be the same problem IMO.

Ricky91t

Hi Hope this can help
Are you in the market for a digital slr?
Digital slrs are great camera for a photographer in position ie.Beginner ,Pro or Enthuiast.They have full manual functions and also Auto for when you start out.However Digital slr are the most pricy in the camera range but are by far the best!
If you are in the market for a digital slr
Here are reviews on nearly all the Canon Dslrs.
Also here are reviews on nearly all the Nikon Dslrs

If you need to check reviews on lenses or flashes please check here

Dslr Prices

If you Check here you will find up to date u.k prices of slrs So you can compare these to irish to see what kind of deal you're getting.

Are you in the markey for a Bridge Camera?
These are camera better than compacts but not as good as digital slrs they offer alot of manual setting and usually have a good telephoto lense for wildlife and sports shots.They usually take the shape of a dslr but tend to be a bit smaller prices of these and compact camer can be found here.Main Sellers of these are fuji And Panasonic

Reviews on Bridge camera can be found here

Are you in the markey for a compact Camera?

A compact digital camera has got alot of features crammed into a small sized camera which are usually pocket size there use live view and normally have just an lcd screen which you review and take photos on.

Reviews on compacts can be found here


Buying online
Online shops offer good value and usually offer a great service,shops such as 7dayshop,Pixmania,Komplett all sell most types of camera at good prices.

Ebay:Probably offers the best value and they ship to ireland for not much extra.Shops Like Kea photo and Digital rev are well known ebay shops on here.

Here are some questions asked on boards
Dslr Question
Newbie Lens Help
Nikon D60 maybe.
Discussing teleconverters
Considerong a compact might help
Learning how to shoot sports
Best 70-300(good zoom ranger)
Intelligent approach to new/next lens.
Next camera(mainly dslrs)
Buying in usa and best entry level dslr
Canon or olympus entry level dslr
Macro/zoom len(first time)

Ricky91t

Now that iv posted that i think its too much
Maybe someone else will give it a shot

Covey

I personally don't post many photos here, not because I couldn't learn from responses, but rather the quality of those. Mostly nice shot and the like. I love the forum but it's the one thing I don't think works that well.

Often I'd like to post something constructive, but usually hold back, as a lot of people take such offence. Tbh I miss Oriel, who while maybe a wee bit blunt ,was bang on in a lot he said.

People don't learn anything from being praised for something mediocre as in often the case here.

So my suggestions.

1. People should C&C in the manner "I Like this because" or "I'm not gone on this because" and not "nice pic".

2. Anyone posting for C&C and posting comments not related to the photo, such as "well lets see your landscapes then?" should be banned from the C&C sticky for a period.

3. There should be C&C guidlines published and these should include a statement that regardless of your standard you're entitled to critique. Some of the best advice I've got has been from people who by their own admission would be "poor" photographers. The two don't go hand in hand.

4. I think as stated earlier there should be a C&C sticky, but don't think it's neccessary to have catagories after that.

I'd like to see the C&C thread be more effective for posters and maybe develop into a kind of "Mentoring" area as mentioned by Elven in another thread.

T.

duffarama

Eirebear wrote: »

I dont think that the ffo is particularly biased as such towards Canon/Nikon.

The only place youll see them being mentioned all the time is within the gear threads, people can only truly reccomemend what they know, and as there are more users of both these brands then it goes without saying that they will be mentioned more often in these types of threads.

When there are threads revolving around actual photographs then there doesnt tend to be the same problem IMO.

Generally no, there is no bias in regular threads but just a bit of banter. However there is a dismissal in a gear thread of anything that isn't Canon or Nikon and I feel that in some (many) cases that it's not necessary.

The poster is looking for something to take better photos with, they may never want or need a full frame camera, so why not choose a different route.
For the most part you can't use crop lenses on a full frame system anyway, or you can but they are a bit softer, so if you decide that you do want to go full frame "switching" systems will be what you will do.

It just gets my goat is all.

Apart from that, I'd like to see a bit more focus on techniques and if we can't manage a competition then a weekly or monthly mega C&C thread could be interesting. 1 photo per person and if you post you must comment on someone elses photo.

duffarama

Ricky91T... :rolleyes:

Fajitas!

duffarama wrote: »

Any chance of a bit less Canon and Nikon bias??

I've found myself becoming increasingly disillusioned with this place as a result of the above and have been getting cosy with dedicated Olympus forums instead.

Some recognition that all DSLR's can take a good photo in the right hands, that there are other great lens makers.

My 2 eurocent

See the biggest reason behind this is, that the majority of photographers here are Canon and Nikon, but there are a few Oly shooters. Feel free to bring some more of them over though.

ricky91t wrote: »

Now that iv posted that i think its too much
Maybe someone else will give it a shot

Nope, is good stuff, maybe take out the bit at the end giving specific advice on cameras, etc. Thes can become outdated in a matter of weeks. Couple of typos etc, but is good over all! Cheers! I'll add my own bit to it tomorrow.

Covey wrote: »

I personally don't post many photos here, not because I couldn't learn from responses, but rather the quality of those. Mostly nice shot and the like. I love the forum but it's the one thing I don't think works that well.

Often I'd like to post something constructive, but usually hold back, as a lot of people take such offence. Tbh I miss Oriel, who while maybe a wee bit blunt ,was bang on in a lot he said.

People don't learn anything from being praised for something mediocre as in often the case here.

So my suggestions.

1. People should C&C in the manner "I Like this because" or "I'm not gone on this because" and not "nice pic".

2. Anyone posting for C&C and posting comments not related to the photo, such as "well lets see your landscapes then?" should be banned from the C&C sticky for a period.

3. There should be C&C guidlines published and these should include a statement that regardless of your standard you're entitled to critique. Some of the best advice I've got has been from people who by their own admission would be "poor" photographers. The two don't go hand in hand.

4. I think as stated earlier there should be a C&C sticky, but don't think it's neccessary to have catagories after that.

I'd like to see the C&C thread be more effective for posters and maybe develop into a kind of "Mentoring" area as mentioned by Elven in another thread.

T.

I agree 100%

And indeed, I miss Oriels honest C&C. He could be blunt, but it wasn't out of spite, he was right with what he said. You'd never know... He might be able to come back in October or something.

duffarama wrote: »

Ricky91T... :rolleyes:

I don't see what Ricky's done wrong?

melekalikimaka

was Oriel shrimp??

duffarama

Fajitas! wrote: »

I don't see what Ricky's done wrong?

Oh nothing, just simple stuff, 2 links for DSLR's... guess who?

Then a comparison between the 450d and the E-420 (2 cameras which aren't in the same class but the E420 does a fine job for €300 less) which is full of Canon lovers.... hence this face :rolleyes:

I do like the bulk of what he's written though tbf

Fajitas!

melekalikimaka wrote: »

was Oriel shrimp??

Nope!

duffarama wrote: »

Oh nothing, just simple stuff, 2 links for DSLR's... guess who?

Then a comparison between the 450d and the E-420 (2 cameras which aren't in the same class but the E420 does a fine job for €300 less) which is full of Canon lovers.... hence this face :rolleyes:

I do like the bulk of what he's written though tbf

Aye, I understand, but you can't expect someone who's had no dealing of an Oly camera to provide links on them! If you've any review sites of Oly cameras, feel free to put them up so we can include them in that!

melekalikimaka

i miss shrimp

Paulw

duffarama wrote: »

For the most part you can't use crop lenses on a full frame system anyway, or you can but they are a bit softer, so if you decide that you do want to go full frame "switching" systems will be what you will do.

That's not totally correct. I don't know what you mean by "crop lenses". All of the Canon EF lenses will work on all the Canon SLR bodies - full frame, 1.3 crop factor and 1.6 crop factor too. Yes, I use Canon.

People in general will post from their own knowledge and experience. The market share in Ireland would also back that up. Canon and Nikon make up about 80% of the general SLR market.

Yes, people do use others, including Olympus, Pentax, Sigma and others. Of course they are good cameras and in the right hands can compare to any Canon/Nikon body.

Ricky91t

duffarama wrote: »

Oh nothing, just simple stuff, 2 links for DSLR's... guess who?

Then a comparison between the 450d and the E-420 (2 cameras which aren't in the same class but the E420 does a fine job for €300 less) which is full of Canon lovers.... hence this face :rolleyes:

I do like the bulk of what he's written though tbf

Im not gonna make threads for people to comment on!They are threads posted by others and cnhances are someone else will ask the same question!:mad:

Calina

Fajitas! wrote: »

... Making this forum run better

Just a sticky, asking for your thoughts on how to make this place run better.

If you have any thoughts on better rules in the charter, new rules in the charter, new stickies, etc. Go for it.

Now, I'll just point out, I want constructive advice - this isn't your thread for starting an argument, and I'll not be happy if you use it to that effect. (Read: You'll be taking some time off)

So... Some topics for you to think about:

* C&C threads
* Gear threads
* The Competitions forum (I know this one needs a lot of working on, and there's been some great suggestions)
* Digital Darkroom forum
* Getting rid of all that sports 'photography' sh*te :pac:*

So go on then, if you've any ideas, put 'em up and we'll have a think about it. I'm not promising everything new that's suggested will be brought in, but at least we can have a think about them.

Oh, and I presume there's gonna be a request for a new forum for gear talk as usual. I'm not completely going to discriminate the idea, but if you've any other suggestions, I'm all ears. I would advise you read my previous threads on why I wouldn't like to see it in place though...

I've a point or two I want to bring up, but I'll let the rest of you fire away first... I don't want this to be my personal ranting thread... just yet





*That was a joke, I swear

I think this is a laudable objective. The one point worth remembering is that the forum stands or falls on the quality of what the posters post here. So when I see the occasional feedback thread whinging about it, the first response I have is "how has your posting contributed to changing this atmosphere that you don't like", for example.

melekalikimaka wrote: »

don't appease them sports scum

lets shun them out


unclean unclean

The place goes through phases. There was a time you couldn't move for gig shots in here if I am not mistaken.

melekalikimaka wrote: »

wouldnt mind a c and c dedicated forum, maybe an abreviation system for genre of photo

ie

gig - [g]
sports -
animal - [a]


cos tbh i dont like commenting on areas i dont know, this way ya could scan and spot whats your genre sora thing, ideally sub forums but thats not gonna happen

There are a couple of problems here. One, I'm against it in principle. I don't like it on any of the other photography fora that I frequent which is why I spend more time here - it's like a giant melting pot. Secondly, the more subfora you have the bigger a mess the front page is. Thirdly I'm not sure that the powers that be would agree with it. In any case, I also think that it would create a slightly elitist subforum with the main forum suffering for it. Mostly, the range of photographs that gets posted here is educational.

Paulw wrote: »

I do also note some lack of tolerance when people post asking gear advice, especially newbies asking. I know, I know ... they really really should read the FAQ first, but many just don't bother. Frustrating, but we've all been there.

I have some sympathy for the newbies. They want specific information about specific cameras on the market. They want to know why the G9 is better than the equivalent Fuji, for example. The FAQs were at least - I haven't checked them lately - couched in very general terms.

City-Exile wrote: »

Always a bit backward in Waterford, doing the Spring Cleaning in July!

I seriously think the "Give Me Camera Advise" threads are nothing but clutter. Since I've already been chastised for suggesting that they get moved to a sub forum, can we move the actual photography threads to sub forum?

It can be really annoying to come back here & see multiple threads, often from the same person, asking for advise on some $65 P&S.

I don't recall multiple threads from the same person. What slightly annoys me is that every 2 days there's a new 450D or 40D thread. I mean if you go down two pages you'll find a debate on the subject.

elven wrote: »

Do we want an O/T thread?

It'd be really nice if people didn't use C&C threads as a dump & run. You should say whether you're looking for technical advice, theme/theory advice, or if you have a specific issue/query abut the image. And if you just want to post so that people can say "gee that's lovely you're a natural" don't hide behind a C&C request...

I'm done.

I don't know about O/T stickie, to be honest. You could try it as a trial run, but...not quite seeing it to be honest.

As for C&C, my views have been posted on this subject before.

Eirebear wrote: »

As for being stricter on the C&C posts....its always going to come back to the same thing isnt it? Wether people can give constructive criticism Vs how people take constructive criticism.

Its hard to come up with a set of rules based around these factors really.

This is a key issue.

City-Exile wrote: »

You may not have noticed, Fajitas!, since you love to skip over the sports threads, but it often happens that a few boardsies have been at the same, or linked events. We will then have a thread, which contains submissions from various members. It's not for C&C per se, but I think it adds to the sense of community on this forum.

It would be a shame if such threads were frowned upon.

I am not sure such threads are frowned upon. Certainly I never got the impression that they were.

stevenolan wrote: »

If there is a gear forum, or maybe for the stickies, can we have a thread telling new photogs like me, what kind of lenses you should get. Like a graded shopping list of the basics, so say, buy your body, get a fifty, get a tripod, get a flash, look at these for other purposes. I find it difficult to know the difference between an 85mm f1.8 and a 18-55mm f2 in terms of application.

In short, maybe a beginners guide to different lenses, and what they do, beyond the macro and the fifty guide, would be swell.

I'm rather annoying in this respect. I say start off with the kit lens and find out what it doesn't do that you want it to do. Other people will say you need this, that, and a load of other things. I started with an 18-55, decided it wasn't zoomy enough so got the Sigma 70-300mm. Then I decided that wasn't zoomy enough and get the much missed 50-500 (another 10 days to go I think) and then decided that wasn't wide enough, and got the 10-20. Then I decided I needed a waterproof casing so that's next.

If someone gave me a list of stuff they thought I'd need, it'd be very different I suspect.

duffarama wrote: »

Any chance of a bit less Canon and Nikon bias??

I've found myself becoming increasingly disillusioned with this place as a result of the above and have been getting cosy with dedicated Olympus forums instead.

Some recognition that all DSLR's can take a good photo in the right hands, that there are other great lens makers.

My 2 eurocent

Agreed with in principle. What irritates me over belief, however, even within the Canon world is gear elitism. All my lenses bar two kits are Sigma lenses. I love them. I'm sick of reading about how L lenses are the only way to go.

Covey wrote: »

I personally don't post many photos here, not because I couldn't learn from responses, but rather the quality of those. Mostly nice shot and the like. I love the forum but it's the one thing I don't think works that well.

Often I'd like to post something constructive, but usually hold back, as a lot of people take such offence. Tbh I miss Oriel, who while maybe a wee bit blunt ,was bang on in a lot he said.

People don't learn anything from being praised for something mediocre as in often the case here.

So my suggestions.

1. People should C&C in the manner "I Like this because" or "I'm not gone on this because" and not "nice pic".

2. Anyone posting for C&C and posting comments not related to the photo, such as "well lets see your landscapes then?" should be banned from the C&C sticky for a period.

3. There should be C&C guidlines published and these should include a statement that regardless of your standard you're entitled to critique. Some of the best advice I've got has been from people who by their own admission would be "poor" photographers. The two don't go hand in hand.

4. I think as stated earlier there should be a C&C sticky, but don't think it's neccessary to have catagories after that.

I'd like to see the C&C thread be more effective for posters and maybe develop into a kind of "Mentoring" area as mentioned by Elven in another thread.

T.

In principle I agree with you. My issues with C&C, however, has been the lack of engagement on the part of the OPs in said threads.

duffarama wrote: »

Generally no, there is no bias in regular threads but just a bit of banter. However there is a dismissal in a gear thread of anything that isn't Canon or Nikon and I feel that in some (many) cases that it's not necessary.

The poster is looking for something to take better photos with, they may never want or need a full frame camera, so why not choose a different route.
For the most part you can't use crop lenses on a full frame system anyway, or you can but they are a bit softer, so if you decide that you do want to go full frame "switching" systems will be what you will do.

It just gets my goat is all.

Apart from that, I'd like to see a bit more focus on techniques and if we can't manage a competition then a weekly or monthly mega C&C thread could be interesting. 1 photo per person and if you post you must comment on someone elses photo.

I have mixed feelings about the mega threads. I'm finding that as Random Photographs gets bigger and bigger I'm less interested in looking at it, and am more inclined to post individual C&Cs because they are inclined to get more feedback for me.

What you say about techniques is interesting - i wonder would you see that more in terms of someone either penning an article in which case how do you foist that duty on someone - or in response to a question that people pose? I do this myself in Digital Darkroom from time to time....I think it's a useful way of learning. However, I'd also imagine that some people might be nervous about appearing too ignorant and asking what they consider other people will think are stupid questions. My views are coloured by the last 90 minutes of discussion that involved "I want to learn how to use Av and Tv" however.

I'd appreciate more input in terms of what you expect from this.

Paulw wrote: »

That's not totally correct. I don't know what you mean by "crop lenses". All of the Canon EF lenses will work on all the Canon SLR bodies - full frame, 1.3 crop factor and 1.6 crop factor too. Yes, I use Canon.

......



Yes, people do use others, including Olympus, Pentax, Sigma and others. Of course they are good cameras and in the right hands can compare to any Canon/Nikon body.

He may be talking about the EF-S lenses which are specific for cropped sensors in Canon terms.

Also, the closing line above - probably not intentionally - comes across is a bit elitist. It probably feeds into duffarama's views of Canon/Nikon bias in the forum.

_____________________________

Amongst the things I like about this forum is that it generally has a sense of community. Obviously, there are occasions that I get annoyed with a certain amount of flaming. Without wanting to get flamed myself (wishful thinking no doubt), I've noticed quite a bit of it in some of the sports threads. It's a pity, in a way, because some excellent work gets posted there, but it can get lost in what (and okay so I'm a girl) come across as some testosterone fuelled debates. It puts me off those threads which is ironic when you bear in mind I am technically one of the sports dudes as well.

There is a lot of practical advice floating around the forum. I know we have a couple of super stickies, but I am wondering if it might be worth putting a "Key Threads" sticky together so that some of those posts that have particularly useful information. I know it's kind of close to the FAQ but I have to confess I find that FAQ difficult to read. Stuff that could be added later. Maybe use Report Post to highlight something to be added to the FAQs or Key Threads stickies if the powers that be don't object? Stuff will get flagged then as being good or useful and it may well be a way to keep those stickies up to date, for example.

We have a good rep outside Photography for the community spirit in here. I think that's something to be proud of. One of the things which I regret, however, is that when events get organised, there tend to be a few noshows, which is a pity, and I think, some new people tend not to risk coming along because if you're new in here, it can feel quite cliquish. What I am wondering about - I know it's been done 1000 times before, but an introductions thread might be justified. And stickified.

What we also need is for non-Dublin people to organise meets. I've been down to some in Munster, although I tend to miss the Waterford ones. The problem is that people very often don't step forward to do it. I know tihs being an internet forum, people might be reluctant to step up and say exactly where they are...but this is a huge issue for us in that there are regularly Dublin meets that I know about, but not often major meets outside Dublin. As I know that there's a reasonable population around Waterford, Cork and Galway, this is something that could be addressed. I would be willing to travel within reason for a boards meet although if it's in Donegal, please give me time to drive there.

These are just some thoughts. I'm rather wrecked because of a few work-related broken nights so this might not be the most coherent.

CraggyIslander

Am usually not one to resurrect old threads, but for the gear side of things some of the things in this thread made sense

Especially as people will follow a link to a website for updates....... sticky's not so much..... read em once and thats it