Jazz & Blues

Chong

Sorry for my ignorance as I am new but what is the Different between Jazz and Blues, is Ray Charles and Louis Armstrong an example of Jazz?

Setun

You've opened a can of worms there Van Zuylen

It's hard to clearly define what is or isn't jazz or blues. Strictly speaking, the blues is a song form, and mostly follows a specific series of chord changes (your typical 12-bar changes) and utilises the blues scale.

Having said that, many jazz musicians use blues scales and blues riffs in their improvisation. So I suppose it's what tune you're playing and how you play it. For example Oliver Nelson's The Blues and the Abstract Truth (AMAZING ALBUM!) is a real jazzer's interpretation of the blues songform, and not 'traditional' blues at all.

It's hard to be specific, but I suppose it comes down to a given musician's style of playing. I'd classify Ray Charles as Rhythm and Blues, Louis Armstrong as Jazz, and then say Robert Johnson as blues. But that's just my opinion.

What I really mean to say is, I dont know what the difference is

Scubadevils

Rather than start a new thread, this one seemed fitting maybe to answer a question for me too

I heard a few months ago an album by Miles Davis which was very different to what I might have expected from him. I didn't get the name of it at the time but it would be quite experimental I would think and didn't really bear any resemblance to what I would have thought was Jazz... it actually sounded like listening to something by Susumu Yokota? - any thoughts? :pac: I know not much info to go on but I'm sure someone will know!

Rigsby

"Daddio" is correct, jazz and blues are very closely related ( jazz evolved out of blues ). One music often "borrows" ideas from the other. While blues basically has a definite structure that has remained the same throughout, jazz kept on changing and is constantly evolving.

While Louis Armstrong is an example of jazz, it's jazz as played at that time. Same as Charlie Parker represented the jazz of his time. A lot of contemporary jazz is very unlike what Armstrong or Parker were playing. Jazz is just an "umbrella" name for a constantly changing music. I'd also agree with Daddio that Ray Charles would be rhythm and blues.

That's my view on it FWIW.

Setun

Felixdhc wrote:

Rather than start a new thread, this one seemed fitting maybe to answer a question for me too

I heard a few months ago an album by Miles Davis which was very different to what I might have expected from him. I didn't get the name of it at the time but it would be quite experimental I would think and didn't really bear any resemblance to what I would have thought was Jazz... it actually sounded like listening to something by Susumu Yokota? - any thoughts? I know not much info to go on but I'm sure someone will know!

Might have been Bitches Brew, or In a Silent Way. I'd say you'd probs enjoy those albums Felix, if you haven't got em already it mightn't be a bad purchase for ya. In a Silent Way in particular sounds kind of like odd electronic music in parts, which isn't surprising when you realise that a lot of it is looped and put together in post production.

Now I don't know if you'd call In a Silent Way jazz, jazz-fusion, or something else entirely.

Rigsby

Felixdhc wrote: »

Rather than start a new thread, this one seemed fitting maybe to answer a question for me too

I heard a few months ago an album by Miles Davis which was very different to what I might have expected from him. I didn't get the name of it at the time but it would be quite experimental I would think and didn't really bear any resemblance to what I would have thought was Jazz... it actually sounded like listening to something by Susumu Yokota? - any thoughts? :pac: I know not much info to go on but I'm sure someone will know!

Miles did a lot of experimentation in the 70's and early 80's. The album you refer to could possibly be "Bitches Brew", "Live Evil" or "Dark Magus".

Just when people were getting to like his music Miles would bring out an album which was completely different from the previous one.

Setun

Perhaps one of the biggest disappointments for followers of Miles Davis at that time was that the rumoured album with Hendrix never happened due, sadly, to the very young Hendrix's death. That would certainly have been an interesting record.

But yes, Miles Davis' musical style basically changed completely at least four or five times throughout his career. What would probably interest you most Felix, preliminarily at least, would be his electric period which went from roughly about 67/68 into the mid-70s.

Chong

Excellent stuff ladies and gents.

Speaking of Hendrix would he be considered Blues Rock or something along those lines?

This is absolute class:

Rigsby

Hendrix had a great love of the blues and played it a lot. He was such a genius though, that anything he played he made it his own.

IMO Hendrix is.............. Hendrix.


Great clip BTW.

Chong

If I was to start listening to Jazz, would Miles Davis be the best place to start?

Side note, I have added the Forum sig to my sig, very impressed with this forum .

Rigsby

Van Zuylen wrote: »

If I was to start listening to Jazz, would Miles Davis be the best place to start?

.

There are many great names you could start with but I myself started with Miles. The very first jazz LP ( as it was then ) I bought was "Kind of Blue". IMO this should be in any jazz collection worth it's salt. Miles is also a good choice because of what we were talking about earlier i.e. his diversity.

Other good names to start with would be Louis Armstrong (you mentioned him already), John Coltrane, Charles Mingus, Cannonball Adderly, Bill Evans, Stan Getz and our very own Louis Stewart.

Setun

Van Zuylen wrote: »

If I was to start listening to Jazz, would Miles Davis be the best place to start?

Side note, I have added the Forum sig to my sig, very impressed with this forum .

Well you're very welcome, we're a friendly lot here

I personally heard Song for My Father by the Horace Silver quintet on the radio which was my first introductin, but the first album I bought was Blue Train, by John Coltrane. An apt album for discussion on this thread, because what he plays over a blues in - I think concert Bb Minor (I may be wrong) - is crazy. Not really a blues style at all, yet over those same tired ol' 12 bars.

Scubadevils

Rigsby wrote: »

Miles did a lot of experimentation in the 70's and early 80's. The album you refer to could possibly be "Bitches Brew", "Live Evil" or "Dark Magus".

Just when people were getting to like his music Miles would bring out an album which was completely different from the previous one.

Daddio wrote: »

Perhaps one of the biggest disappointments for followers of Miles Davis at that time was that the rumoured album with Hendrix never happened due, sadly, to the very young Hendrix's death. That would certainly have been an interesting record.

But yes, Miles Davis' musical style basically changed completely at least four or five times throughout his career. What would probably interest you most Felix, preliminarily at least, would be his electric period which went from roughly about 67/68 into the mid-70s.

Cheers for that, Bitches Brew sounds familiar alright, pretty sure thats it. I have looked at the listings in Tower a couple of times since but there are just so many by Miles Davis so I really didn't know where to start! Will pick that up now next pay-day, spent well over budget this month already! Thanks again.

And one recommendation from me before I depart to the land of dance and electronica...

http://www.discogs.com/artist/Pan•American

I picked up 360 Business / 360 Bypass and it is spectacular, definite jazz influence with a nice ambient dub feel. Really amazing album, can't wait to buy everything else by him next month.

Setun

Felixdhc wrote: »

Cheers for that, Bitches Brew sounds familiar alright, pretty sure thats it. I have looked at the listings in Tower a couple of times since but there are just so many by Miles Davis so I really didn't know where to start! Will pick that up now next pay-day, spent well over budget this month already! Thanks again.

And one recommendation from me before I depart to the land of dance and electronica...

http://www.discogs.com/artist/Pan•American

I picked up 360 Business / 360 Bypass and it is spectacular, definite jazz influence with a nice ambient dub feel. Really amazing album, can't wait to buy everything else by him next month.

You love your discogs dont ya Gotta start using that site more actually. Cheers for the tip, will check it out. And report back on your Davis explorations!

Scubadevils

Daddio wrote: »

You love your discogs dont ya Gotta start using that site more actually. Cheers for the tip, will check it out. And report back on your Davis explorations!

Feckin sure I love my discogs, it's actually my most visited site by far... generally have a separate page open for discogs at all times!

http://www.discogs.com/release/513898 :pac:

Was listening to that 360 Bypass album again today in the car, really excellent album. Buy it!

Will defo report back on Davis when I get the album come pay-day.