The mathsy side of economics

andy11

Hi all, Will be doing Economics in Trinity come October and am wondering what sort of Maths I will be expected to be able to do?

I did Ordinary level for the leaving and barely paid attention to it as I wasn't using it for points so am well behind.

Are there any particular types of maths I shoudl have a look at before starting in October?

TIA

Awayindahils

andy11 wrote: »

Hi all, Will be doing Economics in Trinity come October and am wondering what sort of Maths I will be expected to be able to do?

I did Ordinary level for the leaving and barely paid attention to it as I wasn't using it for points so am well behind.

Are there any particular types of maths I shoudl have a look at before starting in October?

TIA

First year will NOT be a doss for you in terms of Maths and Stats. If you do honours for the LC you ahve covered msot of first year, only the economic applications are new. However if you work on the Maths and Stats you will be fine.

This of course sounds very easy, work and you'll be grand. However first year Economics is not that taxing as a course overall and there can be huge insentives to doss off. Doing the weekly excercises alone may not be enought to bring you up to the level you will need for 3rd and 4th year. You may need to do extra additional work from the book. As a TSM you will have to take econometrics in 3rd year regardless of your major.

However, I have a friend who did pass maths, really struggled (due to plenty of partying) and this year (3rd year) they were getting first and high 2.1s in Mathamatical economics and econometircs. This was due to working hard at the subject and using repeats to give themselves a good kick in the arse and get the basics right.

andy11

Thanks awayindahils. If I were going to get a headstart what would you reccomend?

Im years behind in terms of maths, learned very little of it in school tbh. Got by pass maths due to the algebra and some of the other easy Q's.

Time Magazine

Hi,

I've just finished a degree in zee old Economics department so I know a thing or two about it.

The one big surprise for me when I started doing Economics is that it's so mathsy. Real economics is essentially a form of applied maths. (I've attached a picture of a page of an essay I wrote this year if you don't believe me!) Behind everything you rote learn for the LC, there's real maths behind it.

My advice is simple. Don't lift a finger this summer. Enjoy yourself. When you get to College, enjoy your first few weeks. Join a load of societies, try them all out and pick your favourite one or two, make friends, go to parties.

Keep up with the maths and resist the urge to learn by rote. It will help you in later years. You're at a bit of a disadvantage not having done HL so you need to catch up. Trust me, the best way to do this is to just work consistently. Spend say four hours a week at maths and you're almost sure to get a First in it at the end of the year.

Oh and another thing. You'll have an exam at Christmas that'll be worth 10% of the grade but will closely resemble half of the end-of-year exam, so it's worth your while working hard at it.

Best of luck with it. If you've any questions, give me a shout. Enjoy your four years

Économiste Monétaire

Antithetic wrote: »

Real economics is essentially a form of applied maths.

He speaks the truth. In any economics course, the higher the level, the more rigorous and math based it will get. Have a flick through any advanced mico or macro book if you want an illustration of this.

I remember reading this somewhere but it stuck in my head as a good adage: Last year's maths was easy, this year's maths is difficult and next year's maths is impossible.

UCD_Econ

UCD_Econ wrote: »

I remember reading this somewhere but it stuck in my head as a good adage: Last year's maths was easy, this year's maths is difficult and next year's maths is impossible.

Well, I read it in the 'What's Maths like in College?' thread that was in the Maths Forum around a year ago. Ecksor, I believe, posted that. And it wasn't about Economics

Économiste Monétaire

Myth wrote: »

Well, I read it in the 'What's Maths like in College?' thread that was in the Maths Forum around a year ago. Ecksor, I believe, posted that. And it wasn't about Economics

Your memory is better than mine I couldn't remember which forum it was from, thanks. It was about math in general, and this person is asking about the math side of economics.

andy11

All quite worrying! I'd say my maths is currently at a Junior Cert level and I am missing many fundamental theories etc.

So should I have a look at the LC honours book? If so what sections?

Or should I get the college books?

(Im not sure anyone truly understands how bad my maths is, some of my friends have been quite taken aback by the gaping holes in my understanding of some of the most fundamental principals. I'm pretty sure that if I don't have a look at some of this stuff now I'll be completely lost, even in 1st year)

Économiste Monétaire

When you say your maths is bad, how bad is bad? Can you differentiate?

You might want to pick up Ian Jacques' "Mathematics for economics and business" in a book shop. That's usually the introductory book used in any level one courses. Have a look at it and try some of the early chapters like basic calculus.

Time Magazine

UCD_Econ wrote: »

Can you differentiate?

No calculus in OL Maths afaik.

Antithetic

Antithetic wrote: »

No calculus in OL Maths afaik.

Nope there is (or was) when I gave grinds in it before.

http://examinations.ie/archive/exampapers/2008/LC003GLP100EV.pdf

Time Magazine

Myth wrote: »

Nope there is (or was) when I gave grinds in it before.

http://examinations.ie/archive/exampapers/2008/LC003GLP100EV.pdf

Maybe it's "no integration" I'm failing to remember correctly then.

Économiste Monétaire

Well, just hope that they teach basic calculus from scratch in your level one quants classes. To be honest, if you're intelligent enough to be accepted to take econ in Trinity then you should be able to learn calculus if you need it. Jacques is pretty easy to learn from.

andy11

Thanks for the all the help everyone, appreciate it.

I've managed to dig out an honours maths book. Would I be right in thinking the following chapters are worth looking at?

Differential Calculus 1: Differenciation from first principals.
Differential Calculus 2: Differenciation by rule.
Differential Calculus 3: Applications of differenciation.

Thanks in advance.

Économiste Monétaire

The first two we be worth reading. Differentiation by rule more so. You'll most likely be using calculus to find marginal functions to begin with, like you'll be given a firm's total revenue and asked to find marginal revenue by differentiating. Then you'll probably move onto optimisation.

You're probably best to just pick up Ian Jacques' book. I looked at the TCD website and that's your required textbook for your first year quants class. It's calculus chapter starts from scratch and the book is really easy to self-teach from. The outline of the class is here. There's no need to go too far into the book because that defeats the purpose of them teaching you :P.

defiantshrimp

You'll certainly need calculus for economics, so if you reckon you can cover those topics, than do. But if you are lacking in basic concepts, you might want to cover those.

Coming from a strong maths background I found Ian Jacques' "Mathematics for economics and business" far too easy, but it is useful in explaining the (very) basics. I recommend you buy it and work from the start. That should leave you in good shape. Also print Antithetic's advice and stick it on your wall so you remember it.

andy11 wrote: »

Thanks for the all the help everyone, appreciate it.

I've managed to dig out an honours maths book. Would I be right in thinking the following chapters are worth looking at?

Differential Calculus 1: Differenciation from first principals.
Differential Calculus 2: Differenciation by rule.
Differential Calculus 3: Applications of differenciation.

Thanks in advance.

I did pass maths and got the lowest requirement to get into Trinity.

I coasted (read 41%) in maths for two years and then did econometrics.

I ended up having to relearn maths completely in 3rd year (I didn't know how to differentiate until December of 3rd year) but ended up with good firsts in applied econometrics and got reasonable II.IIs in the theory.

In final year, I was well able (with a little help from Europerson and Antithetic) to hold my own mathematically and finished with an overall 68 and ended up with higher marks in the mathsy subjects then a lot of people who had done HL maths.

So yes - you can do it but if you work in the first two years (whcih I didn't) you will save yourself a lot of hassle and heartache in the Sophister years but there is no reason why a person who has done OL maths can't do well in economics.

andy11

andy11 wrote: »

All quite worrying! I'd say my maths is currently at a Junior Cert level and I am missing many fundamental theories etc.

So should I have a look at the LC honours book? If so what sections?

Or should I get the college books?

(Im not sure anyone truly understands how bad my maths is, some of my friends have been quite taken aback by the gaping holes in my understanding of some of the most fundamental principals. I'm pretty sure that if I don't have a look at some of this stuff now I'll be completely lost, even in 1st year)

Don't worry - I went in having done sweet feck all in maths for the leaving cert.

The BESS maths courses are straightforward (just requires work - I never it did it though!) and the Ian Jacques book will see you through it.

Real economics starts in third year - I found that the most challenging year of my degree.

manicmonoliths

Having just finished first year Maths and Stats in BESS I can tell you that a lot of people had trouble this year.

The topics we covered in Maths were :
Linear Algebra
Quadratic Equations
Indicies and Logs
Differentiation
Maximisation and Minimisation (basically more differentiation)
Partial Differentiation
Unconstrained Optimisation (again more differentiation)
Integration (the reverse of differentiation)
Constrained Optimisation (em... differentiation)

You may have noticed a slight pattern there.

You'll have done differentiation in OL and even if you're as terrible as you say at it, the lecturer (I think it'll be the same one next year) is quite good at explaining things in a straightforward way.

andy11

Thnaks for all the help everyone!

ShoulderChip

why are you interested in economics? if you don't mind me going a bit off topic