Downloading Music - Ethical Question

the dee

Ok, here's the story. My ipod has decided to give up the ghost after many years of loyal service. Fair enough. However, all 4000+ songs have been erased and all of my cds are on another continent.

In this situation, would you say it's unethical to (free) download all of my music again? Seeing as I've already bought and paid for all of these cds, just don't have access to them.

I thought I'd canvas boardsies opinions before I broke any copyright laws

What do you think?

R0ot

Ethically i'd say yes, however legally your screwed. I advise next time that you keep your songs transferred from your CD's on your computer next time.

Sherifu

I'd say it's ok. Just don't get caught.

Steve_o

I'd say just go for it, you've already bought the cd's.... But when you do, think of poor Bono and all other starving musicians....:rolleyes:

Mena

R0ot wrote: »

legally your screwed.

Are you sure? If it came down to it, he could provide proof of purchase...

the dee

R0ot wrote: »

Ethically i'd say yes, however legally your screwed. I advise next time that you keep your songs transferred from your CD's on your computer next time.

My computer is also on another continent

Earthhorse

Ethically, I think you're okay, provided you delete them within 24 hours.

Steve_o

the dee wrote: »

My computer is also on another continent

If the music is on your computer and if it is a laptop, get is FedEx'd to ya!

Winters

It is unlawful to make copies of songs even to use on a Mix CD or portable device under current Irish law (Or well It was a few years back). Laws of the land dont move as quick as technology advances.

It is generally overlooked quite a bit. Can you imagine the outcry if those money grabbing record industry fat cat cúnts delightful poor cash strapped record companies attempted to stop everyone from buying blank cd's or mp3 players. Although, I really wouldn't put it past them at this stage.

[+]
Also, I would have no problem with you doing it, ethically and personally. If you buy an album then I do think you should be able to listen to it on whatever medium through whatever means you wish.

stovelid

To quote Jim Corr: we don't think it is cool to go cyber-shoplifting.

How could you live with yourself if you did?

beautiation

Yeah you're grand to download them. Though I'm the type who ownloads a song when I'm too lazy to go upstairs for my iPod, so maybe you want someone else's opinion.

R0ot

Mena wrote: »

Are you sure? If it came down to it, he could provide proof of purchase...

Pretty sure your still not allowed to download it even if you already poses the hardcopy.

Winters

stovelid wrote: »

To quote Jim Corr: we don't think it is cool to go cyber-shoplifting.

Would "cyber-shoplifting" not go against the whole "New World Order" thing he is always trying to give out about?

Run_to_da_hills

Your Digital records have been retained for the last 5 years so you should be fine. Just contact Apple and ask can you download all the tunes again because your original copies have been erased. The US Authorities should also have records of all your receipts.

aidan_walsh

Run_to_da_hills wrote: »

Your Digital records have been retained for the last 5 years so you should be fine. Just contact Apple and ask can you download all the tunes again because your original copies have been erased. The US Authorities should also have records of all your receipts.

When did Apple start selling CDs?

the dee

Run_to_da_hills wrote: »

Your Digital records have been retained for the last 5 years so you should be fine. Just contact Apple and ask can you download all the tunes again because your original copies have been erased. The US Authorities should also have records of all your receipts.

:eek: BB at work?

The Don

R0ot wrote: »

legally your screwed.

Mena wrote: »

Are you sure? If it came down to it, he could provide proof of purchase...

I'd go with Mena here. I thought that once you purchased a cd that you could legally keep one backup copy of it.

aidan_walsh

The Don wrote: »

I'd go with Mena here. I thought that once you purchased a cd that you could legally keep one backup copy of it.

Much like the 24 hour rule its often touted, but never been true.

thelordofcheese

the dee wrote: »

Ok, here's the story. My ipod has decided to give up the ghost after many years of loyal service. Fair enough. However, all 4000+ songs have been erased and all of my cds are on another continent.

In this situation, would you say it's unethical to (free) download all of my music again? Seeing as I've already bought and paid for all of these cds, just don't have access to them.

I thought I'd canvas boardsies opinions before I broke any copyright laws

What do you think?

Do it. And while your at it, grab some new stuff as well, sure ya might as well.

Run_to_da_hills

The Don wrote: »

I'd go with Mena here. I thought that once you purchased a cd that you could legally keep one backup copy of it.

I heard of a DJ that reported a flight cases of CDc stolen. He got a Garda reciept of the report. If He was ever caught by PPI or INFACT playing copies of cds he would have this Garda reciept handy. Technically one should print out all reciepts of downloaded music and hang on to shop receipts particularly if you are in the entertainment business.

The Don

aidan_walsh wrote: »

Much like the 24 hour rule its often touted, but never been true.

What about recording music from a radio or recorded tv?

Run_to_da_hills

The Don wrote: »

What about recording music from a radio or recorded tv?

That’s technically illegal. It’s hard to get a decent Radio DJ that will play the tune right through to the end without gossiping or prematurely snipping it. Much of my earlier music collection from the 80ies would have consisted of home made radio recorded cassette tapes, now all dumped.

brundlefly

personally i find it very hard to play a cd on my ipod without digitally transferring it ...which to me makes the argument that i have the right to make a copy for personal use...while i have not bought the intellectual rights to the cd i have bought the right to listen to it through whichever medium i choose...the same could be said for dvds...as long as you dont give a copy to anyone else it aint breaking the law.
to the op :why would you be apprehensive about downloading songs that you have already paid for the right to use?

nonamemark

the dee wrote: »

:eek: BB at work?

No, BS

javaboy

nonamemark wrote: »

No, BS

+1. Short and sweet and to the point.

ShooterSF

aidan_walsh wrote: »

Much like the 24 hour rule its often touted, but never been true.

Yeah I think the back up copy rule is technically an American thing. I'd assume that's why you cant buy software like CloneCD if your address is in Ireland even though they're a Cork company but can if it's in the States.

Run_to_da_hills

lightning_saa wrote: »

Ethically-ditch the conscience

Legally- What will the gardaí do?

worth a punt

The Gardai would normally not be interest in someones personal illegal downloaded music collection on their IPod and more than likely would not know where to start in dealing with it as they would have limited resourses for this type of crime. It is relatively new to them and any investigations would have to be carried out by a special department unlike dealing with fake hard copys of a cds and dvds.

In Canada they are starting to clamp down on personal players. There is software availible that can detect what is genuine on your MP3 player and what is not. The EU could enforce strict new laws and penalties regarding this type of crime in the near future as we have been getting away with it for so long. The UK and the Netherlands have already started to clamped down on DJ's playing illegal MP3s on their laptops in nightclubs with fines of up to e10'000.

If a report came into An Gardai about someone making a business downloading illegal MP3s from torrent sites or selling illegal MP3 collections they would have to act on it. Reports such as this could come in through someone lodging a complaint direct or through INFACT or PPI. (Copywright protection groups) A specialist member of these groups along with customs and excise would normally assist the Gardai on a raid and equipment etc would be confiscated for inspection.

dotsman

Ethically, I've no problem with you doing it.

Legally, it's a grey area and a tiny chance of getting caught (if done right!)

I wouldn't do it through a work connection though, as that could lead to a lot of hassle.

Eric Cartman

as far as im concerned im not going to buy the cd no matter what, so downloading is ok for me

Run_to_da_hills

dotsman wrote: »

Ethically, I've no problem with you doing it.

Legally, it's a grey area and a tiny chance of getting caught (if done right!)

I wouldn't do it through a work connection though, as that could lead to a lot of hassle.

Work downloading of any software is very dodgy as most companies would use a proxy server which would retain and record internet traffic like a sponge even if you delete and all evidence your history from your personal PC.

The ones that do get caught are the ones that are uploading as well as downloading. Most “illegal” torrent sites do not tolerate leechers so in effectively those that are using their service must be uploading. There are spy programs out there that can literally tell exactly what is on your PC and if anyone who keeps a large collection of illegal MP3s on the same PC they use for browsing is a fool. .

Your service providers are required by law to hold records of what their client is downloading. (As of last week we are told that this information will be made availible to the US Authorities) There are laws going through at this moment requiring service providers to report those that are illegally downloading.

Feelgood

Run_to_da_hills wrote: »

.

The ones that do get caught are the ones that are uploading as well as downloading. Most “illegal” torrent sites do not tolerate leechers so in effectively those that are using their service must be uploading. There are spy programs out there that can literally tell exactly what is on your PC and if anyone who keeps a large collection of illegal MP3s on the same PC they use for browsing is a fool. .

Possibly but not worth a fcuk to be honest. For a starters the use of such software would be invasion of your personal privacy and property. Not only would it not stand up in any court room the chances are that you could end up getting millions in a counter claim out of any service provider for using such software on your property without your consent. Its essentially like someone hacking you.

Slidey

Just get your old pair to buy you a new ipod, sync it to your laptop an post it over to you.

I synced about 6 ipods to my lappy when in oz, had a good chuckle causee some of them were for a german and 2 english birds and they got christy moore, wolfe tones, and even aoin focal eile!

They had no music to start with. Normally happened when they tried to ad new songs in an internet cafe, or were thrown in a pool, with the ipod on their person! muh ha ha:pac:

Run_to_da_hills

Feelgood wrote: »

Possibly but not worth a fcuk to be honest. For a starters the use of such software would be invasion of your personal privacy and property. Not only would it not stand up in any court room the chances are that you could end up getting millions in a counter claim out of any service provider for using such software on your property without your consent. Its essentially like someone hacking you.

Of course it’s an invasion of privacy and probably illegal but there is allot of stuff out there that is equally as bad and people don't seem to bat an eye lid too it. Spy software can be used to do an initial check up on a suspect. If they suspect anything they can then approach their service provider and request his brousing records and if they suspect criminal activity they can then carry out a raid.

The recent EU laws allowing the US authorities rights to all our digital activities are frightening because they have all resources and much of the pressure to enforce the policing of all this comes from the multinationals in the entertainment industry.

Feelgood

Run_to_da_hills wrote: »

Of course it’s an invasion of privacy and there is allot of stuff out there that is equally as bad but people don't bat an eye lid too. Spy software can be used to do an initial check up on a suspect, if they suspect anything they can then approach the service provider and request his brousing records if they suspect criminal activity and then do a raid.

The recent EU laws allowing the US authorities rights to all our digital activities are frightening because they have all recourses and much of the pressure to enforce the policing of all this comes from the multinationals in the entertainment industry.

Im with you, but the other thing is that if mister FBI agents lands at the front door they have no way of proving that the MP3s on your hard drive came from the internet unless they have been digitally signed. How do they prove that you didn't convert them from your CD collection that got robbed from the back of your car while you were on Dolymount strand sucking on some young ones left nip..

Run_to_da_hills

Feelgood wrote: »

Im with you, but the other thing is that if mister FBI agents lands at the front door they have no way of proving that the MP3s on your hard drive came from the internet unless they have been digitally signed. How do they prove that you didn't convert them from your CD collection that got robbed from the back of your car while you were on Dolymount strand sucking on some young ones left nip..

There would be no explaining, if the authorities had reasonable suspicion of a suspect they would arrive at his door with badges and warrants and will grab computers, laptops, external caddies, blanks, legitimate cds and what ever else they can find. They will then shove all this in the boot of a car and that will be the last they will hear about it for several months. It will be up to the person to explain in court on what is legitimately theirs if it goes that far. If they happen to be innocent they will eventually get their PC and stuff back after several months.

Feelgood

Run_to_da_hills wrote: »

There would be no explaining, if the authorities have reasonable suspicion of a suspect several plain clothes guys along with a few uniform cops will arrive at his door flashing badges and search warrants and will grab what ever they can find, computers, laptops, external caddies, blanks and even legitimate cds. They will then shove all this in the boot of a car and that will be the last they will hear about it for several months. It will be up to the person to explain in court on what is legally theirs if it goes that far. If they happen to be innocent they will eventually get their PC and stuff back after several months.

Do you seriously believe that our governments have the manpower to enforce that on that 20 million+ people worldwide that download illegal content let alone the money it would cost to arrange court cases for it?.

Run_to_da_hills

Feelgood wrote: »

Do you seriously believe that our governments have the manpower to enforce that on that 20 million+ people worldwide that download illegal content let alone the money it would cost to arrange court cases for it?.

It doesn’t work that way. They pick out a number of offenders at random and make examples of them issuing them with very heavy fines hoping that this will turn other people off. Not so long ago several kids in the UK were done for distributing their collection over the net i.e. using torrent sites. The maximum one guy had was less than 40 gigs, (The average contents of an IPod now). Their parents had to pay up over 3000Stg each in fines.

If parents of kids see themselves liable for the hefty fines they would be the ones that would be policing their kids from downloading.

barnacle

You are allowed under law, Im 99% sure, to have a back up copy of your music, obtained by any means afaik, so downloading would be ok! once you only download copies of the cds you have

Run_to_da_hills

barnacle wrote: »

You are allowed under law, Im 99% sure, to have a back up copy of your music, obtained by any means afaik, so downloading would be ok! once you only download copies of the cds you have

It was Jon Johansen from Norway that challenged the Motion Picture Association over his ingenious reverse engineering of the macro vision software to decrypt DVDs. He won the case in 2002 implying that he was entitled to have a legitimate personal back up of his original copy. He effectively opened the flood gates for DeCSS based software like DVD decrypter, DVD Squeeze and Shrink. Recently this law has been challenged by the Canadian courts and I believe it is now currently illegal to break any software encryption or digital lock on any legitimate cd/dvd or software even if you paid for it.
More than likely Europe will follow suit.

http://www.news1130.com/news/topstory/article.jsp?content=20080612_170300_2264

hermit

as the Nike corporation says....


Just Do it!!!!!!!

and i'll add to that by saying....

and stop your jibber jabbing