The hunt for the VW T2 Minivan...Help Needed

ED E

Hi Lads,

Ok, I'm looking for a hand here lads. I'm 17, I'm a student and I have some savings but my budget is limiting. Problem, I got my head stuck on restoring one of these. The engine is bassically stripped from a lawnmower and as my dad grew up in a garage that should be ok. We also have a HVLP Spraying system so thats the painting covered. The rest is elbow grease.

BUT, and heres the problem, I cant find one here. Well, I just called in a radio phoneshow and got a few leads but my chances are slim. So, while on your hunts for parts, has anyone seen one lying in a yard or drive somewhere. The "search parameters" are:
T1 or T2, Splitty or Bay Window
Year, dont care
Chipped paint or moderate body work or Rust I can deal with
An engine would be nice touch
Wheels would be a bonus but I could hire a trailor to get it up the garage.
Already restored ones, 99% chance they'll be outside my budget.

And yes, they're available in the UK, but they cost 10K plus taxes ect. And I dont speak german for the german exporters...

So, if you've seen one or know a good place please speak up,
Thanks,
Simon.

peasant

First bit of advice ...forget about a Splittie.

Anything that vaguely resembles a vehicle that might just about be salvageable is going for crazy money. Unless you stumble over something in a barn, owned by someone who doesn't know what they have (how likely is that?) ..really ...forget it.

to give you an idea about prices ...here's something to gawk at:

http://www.kieftenklok.nl/uk/index.php

how does 9k for this sound?

ED E

Yeah, I'd prefer a Bay anyways. The perfect thing would be to find one in a yard somewhere where the owner doesnt care bout it, has no interest and just wants to get rid of it...

Dirty1

Theres no taxes to worry about importing a classic just a fee of €50.

UK is the best bet for for ease of viewing/collection and choice. Most vans here are imported from the UK!

Splits are too expensive to do anything with if your on a budget! Theres loads of bays lying around ireland but be careful, most if lying up will be very rotten in our weather! Bays are still a big project if you need to do major welding! The days of picking up a bargain/barnfind vw in Ireland are almost gone.

Check out this site and the links on it!

http://krazykombis.com/blog/

Also:

type2ireland.org

eircooled.com

volkszone.com

thesamba.com

If you really want a project, I know of a few lying in Wicklow! These would be real resto jobs though, not a few weekends with a tub of isopon and a coat of paint!

ED E

Dirty1 wrote: »

Theres no taxes to worry about importing a classic just a fee of €50.

UK is the best bet for for ease of viewing/collection and choice. Most vans here are imported from the UK!

Splits are too expensive to do anything with if your on a budget! Theres loads of bays lying around ireland but be careful, most if lying up will be very rotten in our weather! Bays are still a big project if you need to do major welding! The days of picking up a bargain/barnfind vw in Ireland are almost gone.

Check out this site and the links on it!

http://krazykombis.com/blog/

Also:

type2ireland.org

eircooled.com

volkszone.com

thesamba.com

If you really want a project, I know of a few lying in Wicklow! These would be real resto jobs though, not a few weekends with a tub of isopon and a coat of paint!

The problem with the UK is that there is a large demand for unrestored ones and the restored ones sell for a fortune.

I know this will be a big job. Any paint on it will have to be removed, then I'll have to treat it for rust, do any body repairs(we have welding gear) and then crack out the spray system. And thats only the bodywork. Lucky the engines are so basic.

I had found the highlited link above but the others are new to me. Thanks.

Dord

I think you'd have a tough time getting insured on that, no? Most if not all insurance companies won't insure a classic vehicle if you're under 25.

dollydishmop

Lethal_Bullet wrote: »

I know this will be a big job. Any paint on it will have to be removed, then I'll have to treat it for rust, do any body repairs(we have welding gear) and then crack out the spray system. And thats only the bodywork. Lucky the engines are so basic.
.

Ha ha, you make it sound so easy :pac::pac:

Don't forget, you're highly unlikely to be able to insure it until your 25-26....so, you may as well take your time

Dord

dollydishmop wrote: »

Ha ha, you make it sound so easy :pac::pac:

I thought that myself. I think he needs a bit of a reality check.
Best for that is to check the restoration threads on Volkszone.com.

It's amazing, you see some of the buses and think "ah sure it only needs a lick of paint". The guy starts removing the paint and discovers 60% of the bus is made of bondo and the other 40% is rust! :eek:

ED E

Hmm, insurance was a worry but I can always put it into storage and keep it till I can get it. On that though, normally people insure them as a classic for low usage, and thus you have to have another car. I wonder if its possible to just insure it normally, as in for me 3K a year...

I realise the amount of work envolved lads. The body eg, 100s of hours of sanding, rust treatment and welding, more sanding, a primer, more sanding, a second primer coat, more sanding, layer 1, more sanding, layer 2, more sanding and so on. The plan is to have it for september and then I can spend the winter working on it, we have a double garage so the weather isn't an issue. Oh, and I forgot resin filling ect. The engine itself will probably need a complete dismantle and servicing.

peasant

Lethal_Bullet wrote: »

I realise the amount of work envolved lads. The body eg, 100s of hours of sanding, rust treatment and welding, more sanding, a primer, more sanding, a second primer coat, more sanding, layer 1, more sanding, layer 2, more sanding and so on. The plan is to have it for september and then I can spend the winter working on it, we have a double garage so the weather isn't an issue. Oh, and I forgot resin filling ect. The engine itself will probably need a complete dismantle and servicing.

emmm ..you forgot about the 100's of hours cutting out rotten parts, sourcing / making up new ones and then welding them in ...and that's before you start sanding

Dirty1

Your still making it sound too easy! Have you ever worked on anything like this before?

If you get it by september, then you'll spend this winter working on it and the next and if your lucky you'll not have to spend the third on it!

Every job that you think will that an hour will take 3 or 4 and sometimes more! Compared to beetles (cars), Bays are a big project! The engine is simple but dont think its a piece of p1$$ either, ive seen so many VW's broken down on the way to Run to the Sun or Bug Jam over the years!

At your age a bay is a cool project and if you do it and see it through, (millions of resto project never get finished once the dreams stop and hard work starts!) you'll have a cool van too! Best of luck with it!!!

Abelloid

Put the kettle on -

http://theapplemarket.com/posty/blog/

carchaeologist

JustinOval wrote: »

Put the kettle on -

http://theapplemarket.com/posty/blog/

Jeebus!!The axe with two handles and three heads comes to mind,not much of the original P&T van left there!!
Hugely impressive work!!!:D

Abelloid

Trigger's brush?

Top work, well worth the read through.

peasant

I don't want to come a cross all condescending, but have you ever considered a T3 (aka T25, wedge, brick) ?

Yes, it's a lot further left on the cool wall, but 2-3 k should get you a decent enough early example (with the beloved aircooled engine) that won't need too much structural work and another 2-3 k and some time could transform it into something really special.

If you pounce now, you could get a 79 -81 before they become classics and spend the next few years dolling it up

Run_to_da_hills

You can still come across the odd Brazilian splitty on Ebay in the UK and they go for alott less than any of the german built models. They were built right up until 1973 and had some wierd features. Most were 15 window with wrap around rear windows and pre 62 rear doors.



Some of the splitty features were carried on into a bastardized bay window model.




Interesting Forum on the subject of Brazilian vs German.
http://images.google.ie/imgres?imgurl=http://images.thesamba.com/vw/gallery/pix/152966.jpg&imgrefurl=http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php%3Fp%3D1785291&h=482&w=640&sz=39&hl=en&start=28&um=1&tbnid=grrZJ4p7aAG45M:&tbnh=103&tbnw=137&prev=/images%3Fq%3Dbrazilian%2Bbus%2Bvw%2B%26start%3D20%26ndsp%3D20%26um%3D1%26hl%3Den%26sa%3DN

You can still get almost any sheet panel for the splitty or bay from Alan Schofield including the front nose section. I have also seen two complete sides sold for both lhd and rhd models.

http://www.ahschofield.co.uk/vanPics68-79/contents.asp

ED E

peasant wrote: »

I don't want to come a cross all condescending, but have you ever considered a T3 (aka T25, wedge, brick) ?

Yes, it's a lot further left on the cool wall, but 2-3 k should get you a decent enough early example (with the beloved aircooled engine) that won't need too much structural work and another 2-3 k and some time could transform it into something really special.

If you pounce now, you could get a 79 -81 before they become classics and spend the next few years dolling it up

Ehh, yeah....No Way. Sorry but I find them the most repulsive car out there, apart from that one thing...cant remember the name...None the less, its horrible. No thanks.

Run_to_da_hills

Lethal_Bullet wrote: »

Ehh, yeah....No Way. Sorry but I find them the most repulsive car out there, apart from that one thing...cant remember the name...None the less, its horrible. No thanks.

I feel the same way about bays also

Once VW stopped making the split window bus they went down the toilet.

oflynno

there is a lad in kilkenny that imports these campers and has about 20 in stock varying from baaaaad to very good

i will locate the number if you want later

Dirty1

To be fair, T3/T25/Airbrick/wedge what ever you want to call it, is the new black! They are getting popular and expensive! Far more practical, no rust, great tuning and modding potential, nicer to drive etc etc, have one!

At the end of the day, whats you budget, and what do you want it for?

peasant

Run_to_da_hills wrote: »

Once VW stopped making the split window bus they went down the toilet.

Depends on what you're looking for, appearance or actual driveability.

Dirty1 wrote: »

To be fair, T3/T25/Airbrick/wedge what ever you want to call it, is the new black! They are getting popular and expensive! Far more practical, no rust

no *cough* rust *cough* unfortunatley is a statement that has to be taken with a large pinch of salt, even with the T3. Lots of very crusty/crispy examples out there that have been made up with glossy paint jobs

peasant

Lethal_Bullet wrote: »

Ehh, yeah....No Way. Sorry but I find them the most repulsive car out there, apart from that one thing...cant remember the name...None the less, its horrible. No thanks.

I'm insulted now, and so is my daily driver

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=55788428&postcount=2

:D:D

Run_to_da_hills

peasant wrote: »

Depends on what you're looking for, appearance or actual driveability.

Both. In 1993 I had a 1964 Camper in the states for a year, not a bother out of it, driving position was very comfortable steering wheel in the same upright position as on a bus. Travelled about 20,000 miles total.

I moved out to Australia the following year and bought a 67 Splitty panel van, great to drive. And drove approx 40,000 miles in one year from Perth to Darwin Cairns and back down the east coast to Melbourne. When I returned back to the States I bought a 1978 fuel injected pancake engine'd bay. It was nothing but hassle, electrical trouble, fuel problems, much more complicated to work in, trying to do anything behind the plastic dash was a nightmare The Gearbox failed about a week before I intended selling it and ended up more or less giving it away. I was glad to see the back of it and said I would never touch a bay window van again.

I returned back from my travels in 94 and still had a passion for splitty and bought one that came in from Holland in 1996 which I still have, it’s a 58 Swiss Army van and is even more basic than anything I had ever had before.

Gary ITR

Run_to_da_hills wrote: »

Swiss Army van

Does it have a fold out knife and screwdriver?

peasant

Run to da hills ...that's reliability and ease of maintenance. Which admittedly is very good on a Splitty (there's nothing in there to go wrong in the first place)

By driveability I meant things like brakes that stop within a reasonable distance, and most importantly a suspension setup that lets all four wheels have contact with the road at all times and not just when it feels like it


...but we're straying off topic.

I wouldn't mind having a Splitty myself, but to be quite honest, I can't afford one as a hobby and I wouldn't want one as a daily driver, you can take things like austerity too far, you know

Run_to_da_hills

Onkle wrote: »

Does it have a fold out knife and screwdriver?

It actually came with its original pick axe and shovel.

peasant wrote: »

Run to da hills ...that's reliability and ease of maintenance. Which admittedly is very good on a Splitty (there's nothing in there to go wrong in the first place)

By driveability I meant things like brakes that stop within a reasonable distance, and most importantly a suspension setup that lets all four wheels have contact with the road at all times and not just when it feels like it


...but we're straying off topic.

I wouldn't mind having a Splitty myself, but to be quite honest, I can't afford one as a hobby and I wouldn't want one as a daily driver, you can take things like austerity too far, you know

Nope Still on topic, I’m sure the OP would like to know the pros and cons between Splits and Bays.

Both splits I had abroad were standard 1600's and brakes were suitable enough for the cruising speed that they would do, i.e. 60MPh. The splits had two planet geared reduction boxes at the end of each rear axle while the bay had this reduction as a part of the gearbox.

I would consider both vans impractical and dangerous to drive as everyday transport as both have little or no protection in a head on, you also have to get used of tail spinning, i.e. if you come up to a sharp bend on gavel/ice the rear tends to flip around.

If the OP intends to do a ground up restoration, from something needing a lot of work and has time and a few bob on his side, it is as easy and as pricey to restore a splitty as it is to do up a bay. Panel parts, window rubbers, glasswork etc for both of them are the same price. Because the splitty has so much of a cult following there is heaps of companies in the UK and States producing aftermarket and custom spares such as Safari windows, modified suspension, brakes, recon engines, Hela type rear lamps etc some of these would have been impossible to get 15 years ago. Also much of the mechanical parts are compatible with the beetle.

You can still perfect doors, bootlids etc brought in from Brazil, South Africa and the States. Alan Schofield in the UK is using EX VW factory dies to press out a large selection of formally difficult to find panels for both models.

peasant

Well actually, I was thinking about a T3 when I mentioned independent suspension and all that

Yes, both the Split and the Bay by now fall firmly into the category of classic car, i.e. something that you don't drive every day, that you cherish and maintain, most likely after having restored it.

Problem is though, the OP is still young and about to sink a lot of time and money into a project that he may not be able to drive as he expected when he's finished. Insurance and all that aside, early vans really are only weekend toys anymore in today's traffic.

Will the OP be able to afford keeping his toy and a daily driver once the project is finished and real life kicks in?

With a T3 he could have a project now that won't break the bank and that would actually still be useable daily later on.

But he doesn't like them ...so that's a bit beside the point now

Run_to_da_hills

peasant wrote: »

Well actually, I was thinking about a T3 when I mentioned independent suspension and all that

Yes, both the Split and the Bay by now fall firmly into the category of classic car, i.e. something that you don't drive every day, that you cherish and maintain, most likely after having restored it.

Problem is though, the OP is still young and about to sink a lot of time and money into a project that he may not be able to drive as he expected when he's finished. Insurance and all that aside, early vans really are only weekend toys anymore in today's traffic.

Will the OP be able to afford keeping his toy and a daily driver once the project is finished and real life kicks in?

With a T3 he could have a project now that won't break the bank and that would actually still be useable daily later on.

But he doesn't like them ...so that's a bit beside the point now

By the time the OP has his dream project restored he may not be able to afford to fill it with petrol never mind insure it. :eek:

I never considered the T3 as a true classic, The OP may as well just go out and get a Toyota Hiace. :mad:

peasant

ahh, now ...the Hiace has the engine at the wrong end

We must swap army vans one day ...it's ages since I've last driven a Split and you've probably never driven a T3, or have you?

Run_to_da_hills

peasant wrote: »

ahh, now ...the Hiace has the engine at the wrong end

We must swap army vans one day ...it's ages since I've last driven a Split and you've probably never driven a T3, or have you?

Never, 78 Bay was the latest, the T3 dose look well in military green, mine was battleship grey on outside (Before Dutch some primary school did a mural on it :mad:) but inside is still the old VW beige colour, not sure yet what colour to do it in. Its still a good bit off before it gets on the road.

What are spares like for the T3. ie sheet panels etc?

ED E

Well, a T3 is a no go, I'd rather drive a micra...A splitty is very unlikely so bin that too.

So T2 is the winner. Thanks for all the info. I'm leaving for france on saturday but when I get back I have 3 in dublin to check and then I'll might start a nationwide search...

peasant

Run_to_da_hills wrote: »

What are spares like for the T3. ie sheet panels etc?

I'm not too sure actually. I believe it's at an inbetween stage where OEM panels are being phased out and replacements haven't all come available yet.

I hope to get way without replacing panels for quite another while, I bought a virtually rust free example.

oflynno

whats your budget?

Dord

I'd love one of the late model T25's with the square lights. Pretty damn cool! :cool:

peasant

The square lights can be retro-fitted to any T3, you can still buy them new (not cheap though)

Dord

Really? Didn't know that.

I was in Munich last year and it's full of T3's. It was common to see several on each street. :cool:

ED E

oflynno wrote: »

whats your budget?

ATM I've a little over 3K to spend, but I will have a part time job(probably~15-20hrs/wk) and that will be 95% towards the T2. I have been told this is no restoration budget but I'll just have to make it work, I cant win the lotto at 17..

Dirty1

I'd love a Doka!!



There was an ex Bernard Newbury crewy at BugJam last year, the new owner fitted a mid mounted V8, open the rear doors and theres the motor, talk about a sleeper!

must post pics!


@ Lethal - 3k will get you a project alright! But not a total shed, just check out potential vans carefully! Rear corners and battery trays, around front window rubber, bottom seam of front panel, footwells/front arches, chassis outriggers and sills, rear arch panel, rusty front beams on UK buses! Then engine-wise, look for end float! As you said, heads, barrels are straight forward and cheap!

Run_to_da_hills

Lethal_Bullet wrote: »

ATM I've a little over 3K to spend, but I will have a part time job(probably~15-20hrs/wk) and that will be 95% towards the T2. I have been told this is no restoration budget but I'll just have to make it work, I cant win the lotto at 17..

You could have the best of both worlds if you could scrounge up 7k stg

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/Volkswagen-Camper-Fleetline-Bay-Split-Hybrid_W0QQitemZ170230372266QQcmdZViewItem?hash=item170230372266&_trkparms=39%3A1%7C65%3A7&_trksid=p3286.c0.m14

oflynno

just spent the morning taking the engine out of the brothers type 2

the shell is fooked so theres a transfer to a "new" shell.that needs some lovin' too

the record for removing an engine is about 4 minutes
we did it in.....




3 hours cos we couldn't find the bolts
the haynes manual isn't too clear on engine removal so god bless the net,we got the info there quicker

Run_to_da_hills

oflynno wrote: »

just spent the morning taking the engine out of the brothers type 2

the shell is fooked so theres a transfer to a "new" shell.that needs some lovin' too

the record for removing an engine is about 4 minutes
we did it in.....




3 hours cos we couldn't find the bolts
the haynes manual isn't too clear on engine removal so god bless the net,we got the info there quicker

About 1/2 hour on the side of the road up in Darwin!! :eek:

Trolley jack under engine, four bolts cables etc and push the van foreward.

Great book recommended for someone new to air-cooled VW's. I think this was designed for the hippy. Try to get the pre 70ies edition on EBay. I.e. hilarious cartoons of the splitty and early beetles . http://www.jbugs.com/store/merchant.mvc?Screen=PROD&Product_Code=11-0990&Category_Code=182000

neacy69

Hey didnt get a chance to read all the posts yet but have you had a look at this site:

http://vwtype2.co.uk/

seems to be a lot of vans listed here (links to ebay auctions) with some reasonably priced and some quite expensive

Flashman

It might be a while before you have to worry about it, but don't let insurance issues discourage you. You're bound to get a quote from someone. Axa quoted me around 1500 on a vintage land rover, and I'm a similarly inexperienced driver. But don't forget to work it into your budget, and good luck!

ED E

Flashman wrote: »

It might be a while before you have to worry about it, but don't let insurance issues discourage you. You're bound to get a quote from someone. Axa quoted me around 1500 on a vintage land rover, and I'm a similarly inexperienced driver. But don't forget to work it into your budget, and good luck!

Cheers. By the time its roadworthy I'll have a full licence and probably at least 1 years no claims And theres always the trick of "such and such" has quoted me "X amount"..:P

dutchcat

peasant wrote: »

ahh, now ...the Hiace has the engine at the wrong end

We must swap army vans one day ...it's ages since I've last driven a Split and you've probably never driven a T3, or have you?

A type 3 is a saloon car not a van notch,fastback or variant.

oflynno

yep type 3 is a car

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/a/ae/Volkswagen_Type_3_Notchback.jpg/800px-Volkswagen_Type_3_Notchback.jpg

Abelloid

dutchcat wrote: »

A type 3 is a saloon car not a van notch,fastback or variant.

You're confusing a T3 (van) with a type3

dutchcat

JustinOval wrote: »

You're confusing a T3 (van) with a type3

Yep my mistake you're wrong:pac:

carchaeologist

Heres the shortwheelbase model!!

peasant

JustinOval wrote: »

You're confusing a T3 (van) with a type3

May I introduce the Volkswagen Type 2, from left to right: T1, T2, T3, T4 (T5 not included)

Abelloid

peasant wrote: »

May I introduce the Volkswagen Type 2, from left to right: T1, T2, T3, T4 (T5 not included)