New car sales a disaster!!!!!!!!!!!

junkyard

There's no big rush on for new cars with the new VRT system in place, any of the sales men I know in the different main dealers around the place have said it's an absolute disaster all round, nobody bought before it and nobody's buying now. If this keeps up most of us are out of a job in a few months. It amazes me how this government has ruined so many businesses one after the other, they simply haven't a clue how to run anything, farming, taxies, fishing, health, education and now the motor industry, what next!!!

EKRIUQ

I guess most people are going to wait untill the dust settles and buy a new car in 09, this year is gone

L-M

Sales are grand, not the best but grand. People are hardly going to expect people to buy before, if they were goin to lose in July, and hardly going to buy in July if they are only goin to get a 6 month year. Jan 09 will tell all. Then we'lll know how screwed we are:D

peasant

I'd hazard a guess and say that all this doom and gloom talk about the recession and the return of the eighties isn't particulalry helping matters either

Petal1

things ain't that bad, as above people are a tad cautios at the mo with this whole VRT increase / decrease. Dealerships were expecting floods of people to walk through there doors today but the complete opposite occurred. People will leave things settle for the next month/6 weeks to see what bargains can be got, reductions will not happen over night!! People are talking themselves into recession at the moment, afraid to turn on the tv in case some politician appears to be talking about all the doom and gloom we are supposedly bout to enter.

Jonny303

We're doing grand to be honest, no floods of people but we didnt expect it either. I think a lot of people were expecting a huge up in sales, but to be honest, from my experience over the last few months, the majority of these people were not directly involved in the motor industry.

what_car

junkyard wrote: »

There's no big rush on for new cars with the new VRT system in place, any of the sales men I know in the different main dealers around the place have said it's an absolute disaster all round, nobody bought before it and nobody's buying now. If this keeps up most of us are out of a job in a few months. It amazes me how this government has ruined so many businesses one after the other, they simply haven't a clue how to run anything, farming, taxies, fishing, health, education and now the motor industry, what next!!!

time to ditch your FF logo in ur sig so!.. they made a rite bollix of things they did, both the ff and the greens, disaster all around.


as the price of oil rises, people will get nervous, nobody would want thousands sitting in a car they cant afford to fuel up... so i would say people will hang on, interest rate rises, cost of living increases , and the fact that the trade in they would have traded in for a new car, is now worth a good bit less than they thought, so they will be cautious and hold out.....

i cant see a hugh rush in new car sales in the current climate...

Seth Brundle

what_car wrote: »

time to ditch your FF logo in ur sig so!.. they made a rite bollix of things they did, both the ff and the greens, disaster all around.

Look at it more closely!

legs11

thats rich, coming from a ff supporter... !

Max_Damage

You have this man to thank for this outrage:

what_car

legs11 wrote: »

thats rich, coming from a ff supporter... !

??

what_car

Max_Damage wrote: »

You have this man to thank for this outrage:

what a feckin idiot! hes doing a great job really, fair play to the chap:D:D:D if he keeps going like this there will be nothing left.
there will be a CO2 fart tax next.
12 weeks to reply to an email, with a response a 5yr old kid could do better.
they have absolutely no experience at anything, tree hugging idiots

biko

what_car wrote: »

what a feckin idiot! hes doing a great job really, fair play to the chap:D:D:D
12 weeks to reply to an email, with a response a 5yr old kid could do better.
they have absolutely no experience at anything, tree hugging idiots

Less trees, more cars ftw

Max_Damage

what_car wrote: »

what a feckin idiot! hes doing a great job really, fair play to the chap:D:D:D
12 weeks to reply to an email, with a response a 5yr old kid could do better.
they have absolutely no experience at anything, tree hugging idiots

I sent him an e-mail a few months back about the new VRT thing, and his 'secretary' was the only person who replied about 2 months later, and he didn't even answer my initial question. What a tool. :mad:

what_car

Max_Damage wrote: »

What a tool. :mad:

at least a tool is useful for something. :D:D:D

more than we can say for the greens!:P

oh yeah thanks to all who voted them in!

E92

Thanks to the man in the photo, Audi A4's are as much as €6,700 cheaper, a 520d is up to €9k cheaper, a Merc E220 CDI came down by €15k(not because of VRT but nevertheless it came down that much) and even Porsche Caymans and Boxsters will get cheaper once Porsche bring in the latest direct injection models.

How is this a bad thing folks?

When we went to collect our 520d, the garage seemed to be doing OK, though since we've never bought from them before I don't know how busy they would normally be at the start of the year, so I can't make any valid comparisons. They did say they expect to sell a lot of BMWs this month, with 318ds, 320ds and 520ds being the volume sellers.

what_car

E92 wrote: »

Thanks to the man in the photo, Audi A4's are as much as €6,700 cheaper, a 520d is up to €9k cheaper, a Merc E220 CDI came down by €15k(not because of VRT but nevertheless it came down that much) and even Porsche Caymans and Boxsters will get cheaper once Porsche bring in the latest direct injection models.

How is this a bad thing folks?

When we went to collect our 520d, the garage seemed to be doing OK, though since we've never bought from them before I don't know how busy they would normally be at the start of the year, so I can't make any valid comparisons. They did say they expect to sell a lot of BMWs this month, with 318ds, 320ds and 520ds being the volume sellers.

i didnt say that new cars getting cheaper was bad.. my comments were generally based.. but with difficult times, his plan may be tweaked in the budget. look at all the value he has written off the second hand market 06 , 07 etc, not to mention flooding our air with diesel particulate matter!. as people supposedly go out and buy new diesel cars.

Esel

Yeah, we are now in month 7 (Ya rly) - that's a big psychological factor. Punters may be thinking "Me car's trade-in value's phucked already enanyway, so I'm just gonna hold out til 09 at this stage. See wha' Joe Duffy tinks abou' dah!".

bazz26

The change in the VRT system imo is only a contributing factor to the current state of things.

Simple thing is that people are not spending money like they did upto 1 or 2 years ago. The housing market is in a similar state as the car market at the moment, hardly because of the change in VRT though?

Economic gloom, a global credit crunch, sky high cost of living, rising costs of fuel, etc are basically all contributing to an abrupt slow down of our economy from the Celtic Tiger to the possiblity of a recession.

While I don't support Gormely and Co or their policies I think their change to the VRT is just one factor, be it a poorly timed one.

Hanley

Dealers are so quick to complain about the bad times in the last 6 or so months... Where's all the money that they basically had free reign to print for the last 8 years gone...?

I think alot of people got caught out and wasted money on fancy showrooms and things that they didn't really need.

The government aren't to blame for THAT.

Henry Ford III

bazz26 wrote: »

The change in the VRT system imo is only a contributing factor to the current state of things.

Simple thing is that people are not spending money like they did upto 1 or 2 years ago. The housing market is in a similar state as the car market at the moment, hardly because of the change in VRT though?

Economic gloom, a global credit crunch, sky high cost of living, rising costs of fuel, etc are basically all contributing to an abrupt slow down of our economy from the Celtic Tiger to the possiblity of a recession.

While I don't support Gormely and Co or their policies I think their change to the VRT is just one factor, be it a poorly timed one.

+1. In reality though the recession has been running a while now. People stopped spending a good while back.

The low new car sales in 2008 are just a factor of that, and but for the VRT changes might have been even lower.

p.s. I strongly dislike the Government.

Anan1

what_car wrote: »

i didnt say that new cars getting cheaper was bad.. my comments were generally based.. but with difficult times, his plan may be tweaked in the budget. look at all the value he has written off the second hand market 06 , 07 etc, not to mention flooding our air with diesel particulate matter!. as people supposedly go out and buy new diesel cars.

Open your eyes, there has never been a better time to buy a car! And don't most new diesels have DPFs?

what_car

Anan1 wrote: »

Open your eyes, there has never been a better time to buy a car! And don't most new diesels have DPFs?

after having many diesel cars, my last one i changed back to petrol!
just in time:D:D my eyes are open

buzzard

E92 wrote: »

Thanks to the man in the photo, Audi A4's are as much as €6,700 cheaper, a 520d is up to €9k cheaper, a Merc E220 CDI came down by €15k(not because of VRT but nevertheless it came down that much) and even Porsche Caymans and Boxsters will get cheaper once Porsche bring in the latest direct injection models.

How is this a bad thing folks?

When we went to collect our 520d, the garage seemed to be doing OK, though since we've never bought from them before I don't know how busy they would normally be at the start of the year, so I can't make any valid comparisons. They did say they expect to sell a lot of BMWs this month, with 318ds, 320ds and 520ds being the volume sellers.

How many people can afford and buy these models ?? The change on VRT is good but cars at the high end of the market with good CO2 emmisions are gaining most. The drop in Revenue will be collected by other means and as always it will be the less well off that will be effected most.

My mother always told me "That Green Vegatables are good for you". Has she looked at the govt. recently.

The local councils are also going to lose revenue with the change in the car tax and wait for the stealth taxes in the coming months coming from the local authority

is_that_so

Two car dealers discussing this on Drivetime yesterday. Go to 37.20 for start, straight after AA Roadwatch. About 10 minutes.

junkyard

legs11 wrote: »

thats rich, coming from a ff supporter... !

I'm NOT a FF supporter!!!!!!!!!!! Far from it, I hate the f*ckers, look closer at my sig!!!!!!!!!! I "modified" another posters sig.

cjt156

Mortgage brokers laying staff off, estate agents taking pay cuts across the board, builders and tradesmen actually looking for work rather than dropping customers for the "big" job, and now car salesmen feeling the pinch?

My heart f*cking bleeds...

Anan1

cjt156 wrote: »

Mortgage brokers laying staff off, estate agents taking pay cuts across the board, builders and tradesmen actually looking for work rather than dropping customers for the "big" job, and now car salesmen feeling the pinch?

My heart f*cking bleeds...

Bottom line - bad times for those in the industry, great times for the rest of us.

cjt156

Anan1 wrote: »

Bottom line - bad times for those in the industry, great times for the rest of us.

True.

I hope the decent, customer-focussed ones who actually know and care about the cars they sell can manage to see it through the rough times.

The rest of those spotty-faced, cheap-suited, widget-selling, unit-shifting, commision-chasing twonks can feck off down the dole office.

Mc-BigE

i do fell a small bit sorry for the "poor auld car dealer" and the "poor auld estate agent" "the poor auld property developer" "the poor auld Builder" at the moment,

you'll just have to downgrade to a smaller merc/bmw/audi and have 1 big holiday a year instead of 2 or 3!

But seriously, as other people said, its a confidence thing at the mom, less people are spending on Luxury items. and also its mid year, wait till jan 09.

Also the revenue said this whole vrt change had to be revenue neutral, and that clearly isnt going to happen if people are not buying, or buying smaller CO2 cars.

which means look out for big increases in everything in the Budget.
in fact might be good to buy just before it.

NinjaTruncs

Are Car sales as bad as everyone seems to be making out?
I done a qick check on cartell.ie and for 07 there was in and around 74500 new cars registered in Dublin. so far this year there are about 53000 cars registered. There is still half the year to go so cars sales will have a bit of time to catch up with last years.

Jonny303

cjt156 wrote: »

True.

I hope the decent, customer-focussed ones who actually know and care about the cars they sell can manage to see it through the rough times.

The rest of those spotty-faced, cheap-suited, widget-selling, unit-shifting, commision-chasing twonks can feck off down the dole office.

Totally agree with you. I think a lot of people have a chip in there shoulder regarding dealers, and just paint everyone with the same brush.

Stevie Dakota

Jonny303 wrote: »

Totally agree with you. I think a lot of people have a chip in there shoulder regarding dealers, and just paint everyone with the same brush.

+1

Most dealers I have dealt with have been good, and at worse, average, which is not bad considering how many people they have to charm versus how many actually buy. Then there are all the people who check out cars here and then buy them abroad, understandable if you want to get the best price, but must be a pain to have to deal with.

tw0nk

cjt156 wrote: »

The rest of those spotty-faced, cheap-suited, widget-selling, unit-shifting, commision-chasing twonks can feck off down the dole office.

What did I do!?

E92

I don't think they were a "disaster" somehow.

2,836 registrations were made yesterday.

See here for more.

kaizersoze

junkyard wrote: »

There's no big rush on for new cars with the new VRT system in place, any of the sales men I know in the different main dealers around the place have said it's an absolute disaster all round, nobody bought before it and nobody's buying now. If this keeps up most of us are out of a job in a few months.

Were these salesmen/dealers in general, under the impression that when they opened their doors at 9 am on the 1st of July there would be a queue of people waiting to buy cars? It really sounds like they did.

sk8board

NinjaTruncs wrote: »

Are Car sales as bad as everyone seems to be making out?
I done a qick check on cartell.ie and for 07 there was in and around 74500 new cars registered in Dublin. so far this year there are about 53000 cars registered. There is still half the year to go so cars sales will have a bit of time to catch up with last years.

generally, about 80-85% of car sales are in H1 of the year (and its gets higher every year). So catching up from 53 - 75 will require a very brisk July (and July alone, it'll return to normal from Aug-Dec). Unlikely to happen IMO.

Stevie Dakota

"SIMI are advising people to buy now"

The SIMI? No sh1t?

knifey_spoonie

Hanley wrote: »

Dealers are so quick to complain about the bad times in the last 6 or so months... Where's all the money that they basically had free reign to print for the last 8 years gone...?

I think alot of people got caught out and wasted money on fancy showrooms and things that they didn't really need.

The government aren't to blame for THAT.

You are the type of person who just starts me fuming, yes dealers have had a great 10 years, no dealers are complaining, they only have two choices either close up or shut up. SIMI isint out shouting from the rooftops ( not that they have the ability).

As for your statement that they could "print money" is a load of bull. Yes we have had made good in the last 10 years, but that was'nt without alot of spending, time and effort( I personally clock in about 60 hours a week). In recent years competeion is so strong (which i have no problem with) has resulted in a huge drop of in profits per unit in come cases a new car is sold for €16k with a gross profit of €150, and this if not a one off it is ongoing, so why dont ye all go off and rip your local tv shop who is making the same out of selling you a new Tv

I know that in general the profits for most garages are sitting around 1-1.5% not this figure of 10% shouted around on forums

You are very quick to give out about your dealers, maybe you have some usless dealers, but dont tar us all with one brush, in my case we have spent huge money not on a fancy building, but on improving the customers experience we have now achived a 94 % customer satisfaction, but that doesnt come cheap, and profits have reduced greatly but we are lucky we have about a 80% customer retention rate

tw0nk

Man I really dont like SIMI, worse than politicians

Jonny303

knife_fighter wrote: »

You are the type of person who just starts me fuming, yes dealers have had a great 10 years, no dealers are complaining, they only have two choices either close up or shut up. SIMI isint out shouting from the rooftops ( not that they have the ability).

As for your statement that they could "print money" is a load of bull. Yes we have had made good in the last 10 years, but that was'nt without alot of spending, time and effort( I personally clock in about 60 hours a week). In recent years competeion is so strong (which i have no problem with) has resulted in a huge drop of in profits per unit in come cases a new car is sold for €16k with a gross profit of €150, and this if not a one off it is ongoing, so why dont ye all go off and rip your local tv shop who is making the same out of selling you a new Tv

I know that in general the profits for most garages are sitting around 1-1.5% not this figure of 10% shouted around on forums

You are very quick to give out about your dealers, maybe you have some usless dealers, but dont tar us all with one brush, in my case we have spent huge money not on a fancy building, but on improving the customers experience we have now achived a 94 % customer satisfaction, but that doesnt come cheap, and profits have reduced greatly but we are lucky we have about a 80% customer retention rate

summed it up in 1! and the spending huge money on showrooms thing...i dont think people realise aswel in most cases, especailly with bigger franchises its either put up or shut up!

RedorDead

knife_fighter wrote: »

You are the type of person who just starts me fuming, yes dealers have had a great 10 years, no dealers are complaining, they only have two choices either close up or shut up. SIMI isint out shouting from the rooftops ( not that they have the ability).

As for your statement that they could "print money" is a load of bull. Yes we have had made good in the last 10 years, but that was'nt without alot of spending, time and effort( I personally clock in about 60 hours a week). In recent years competeion is so strong (which i have no problem with) has resulted in a huge drop of in profits per unit in come cases a new car is sold for €16k with a gross profit of €150, and this if not a one off it is ongoing, so why dont ye all go off and rip your local tv shop who is making the same out of selling you a new Tv

I know that in general the profits for most garages are sitting around 1-1.5% not this figure of 10% shouted around on forums

You are very quick to give out about your dealers, maybe you have some usless dealers, but dont tar us all with one brush, in my case we have spent huge money not on a fancy building, but on improving the customers experience we have now achived a 94 % customer satisfaction, but that doesnt come cheap, and profits have reduced greatly but we are lucky we have about a 80% customer retention rate

+ 1

And for a lot of these dealers if they didnt invest the millions of euro in their new building they get cancelled by the manufacturer. Youre damned if you do and damned if you dont!

Hanley

RedorDead wrote: »

+ 1

And for a lot of these dealers if they didnt invest the millions of euro in their new building they get cancelled by the manufacturer. Youre damned if you do and damned if you dont!

Wait... then why is everyone whinging about it being the governments fault...??

Seriously, my points come from talking to a few dealers involved in the trade. The majority of them seem to have high hundreds of thousands/millions tied up in stock that's not selling.

I honestly can't believe that everyone expected the good times to go on forever... I know alot of people who dropped out of school to go into the building trade cos there was a boom on, i said then it couldn't last, we'd reach a saturation point and they'd be up sh!t creek without a paddle. The same thing seems to be happening to the motor trade now...

cashmni1

Anan1 wrote: »

Open your eyes, there has never been a better time to buy a car! And don't most new diesels have DPFs?

How many cars have you bought reciently? Personally, I have lost €6000 in a year due to the deprecation of my car. (nothing I can do about that)
Great time to buy, yes, but many people are feeling the pinch and are not willing to spend money on changing the car. Hence millions wiped off the second hand market.
Bit of a catch 22 really.

is_that_so

One of the dealers in that Drivetime link I posted suggested that 2nd hand cars will readjust according to the new price regime fairly quickly.

Anan1

Stevie Dakota wrote: »

+1

Most dealers I have dealt with have been good, and at worse, average, which is not bad considering how many people they have to charm versus how many actually buy. Then there are all the people who check out cars here and then buy them abroad, understandable if you want to get the best price, but must be a pain to have to deal with.

I'm afraid I can't agree with this. When I was a car salesman, I knew all the features, specifications, available options and prices of all the new cars I sold. Most of the car salespeople i've encountered since haven't even mastered this basic information.

Anan1

cashmni1 wrote: »

How many cars have you bought reciently? Personally, I have lost €6000 in a year due to the deprecation of my car. (nothing I can do about that)

Three in the past year.

cashmni1 wrote: »

Great time to buy, yes, but many people are feeling the pinch and are not willing to spend money on changing the car. Hence millions wiped off the second hand market.
Bit of a catch 22 really.

Isn't this a good thing for drivers? (Excluding the few who intend on selling their cars and retiring from driving)

Hanley

Anan1 wrote: »

I'm afraid I can't agree with this. When I was a car salesman, I knew all the features, specifications, available options and prices of all the new cars I sold. Most of the car salespeople i've encountered since haven't even mastered this basic information.

I'm gonna be a cheeky bugger again and ask is this because the cars had pretty much been selling themselves?

Not trying to be insulting to the genuinely good guys out there, but the impression the above statement gives me is that guys got into it because there was quick money to be made for fast talker with no other skills really required.

knifey_spoonie

The problems some dealers are having is linked to the gov. partly, but its more so caused by the ignorence of dealers woth regards to the new vrt rules.

What they should have done is choped prices by the relevant amount in feb-march not right now, but the problem with doing this was that therefor the customers cost to change would be huge, and nobody would buy, so there up fcuked if they do or dont.

What needs to be don is take the hard-nosed view that this year is only to brake even and thats it, stock must be writen down.

This would have to be done with a change of vrt, but the fact its coming in in the middle of the year turns it into a money losing shambles

Anan1

Hanley wrote: »

I'm gonna be a cheeky bugger again and ask is this because the cars had pretty much been selling themselves?

Not trying to be insulting to the genuinely good guys out there, but the impression the above statement gives me is that guys got into it because there was quick money to be made for fast talker with no other skills really required.

Definitely. Like any other group, dealerships have been doing as little work as they can get away with. The bottom line is they do it because people still accept it.

sk8board

is_that_so wrote: »

One of the dealers in that Drivetime link I posted suggested that 2nd hand cars will readjust according to the new price regime fairly quickly.

did a quick check on carzone earier for some of the poster-bot cars of the July prices (bmw's, 2.0L diesels etc), and not one single car was priced down to their readjusted retail price. All were still much more expensive, with the '07 models still being more expensive than the new July '08 prices.

it doesn't tempt me to buy 2nd hand if the price is wrong/misleading. How else can garages shift the 2nd hand cars without dropping the prices and perhaps even making a loss on them. The longer they leave it the more they'll depreciate naturally anyway. the garages knew this was coming more than anyone, I assume they priced all Jan-April trade-ins very low accordingly.