Job losses in Architectural offices

Builderfromhell

It's all about recessions in media these days but no mention of job losses on this forum. I survived the last few recessions (emigration) but remember that Architects offices let people go before building workers were let go. Obviously the design is done before the build so the Architects ran out of work while builders were still building.

sydthebeat

6 months + of work ahead of me and no sign of it slowing down coming in.....

but we're a small office and are very mallable...

topcatcbr

I know of 1 practice in newbridge which has let a few go recently

bruce wayne

well [snip] are laying people off to beat the band....I think the number is up to 20 or so 10 were last week

Mellor

bruce wayne wrote: »

well [snip] are laying people off to beat the band....I think the number is up to 20 or so 10 were last week

I think its best not to name specific companies. I'm not sure of the legalities of discussion the business of a private company on a public forum, but more importantly, its a small sector and if I was let go I'd rather my dismissal wasn't broadcast about.

Slig

Heard of 2 let go yesterday. Really begining to sink home, we have about 3 years work in the office but they are big jobs and if one of them gets pulled.............:(

topcatcbr

Mellor wrote: »

I think its best not to name specific companies. I'm not sure of the legalities of discussion the business of a private company on a public forum, but more importantly, its a small sector and if I was let go I'd rather my dismissal wasn't broadcast about.

I agree.

No6

I find as a self employed that while I can't let myself go there is less work around and even with the work there is if one or two of those jobs go due to little things like planning or the bank not giving credit etc etc and as for getting paid, pulling hens teeth comes to mind.

archtech

I've recently hear of some offices stopping overtime, even though the project are running behind and others going on a 3 day week.

Had a consultant yesterday contact me looking for a copy of the request for further information in respect to a planning application so he could respond to same, yet I had only received the RFI earlier in the day. 3 months ago I would have spend weeks chasing him to look at the request never mind respond to it. The guys in the office are experiencing the same.

Supertech

and as for getting paid, pulling hens teeth comes to mind

Same as that No.6. It was like someone tripped a switch about 4 or 5 weeks ago and turned off the money. AND, more annoyingly, the same people who won't pay now are the ones who melted the phone with persistent calls when they were looking for the work to be done in the first place .... frustrating in the extreme :mad: Looking Bleak All round I guess !

No6

Anybody know what our title is for visa applications for Austrailia.. they only seem to have Architects and Architects Assistants on the profesional lists??? Its getting more and more tempting!!!

Poor Uncle Tom

And so it begins!

Please don't give up so easily. Surely you knew being self employed was no cake walk. The only thing wrong with being self employed is that the boss is an assh*le. Everything else you can cope with.

I lived through the last one and we will all get through this one too. The big jobs might be stopped and some commercial works too but the one offs are still going. I know a lot of people going ahead with works now and planning to start works, these are people who either couldn't get or couldn't afford a building contractor 2 or 3 years ago.

Extension works are construction works too, look at the ads sections of your local weekly rags. Extensions are making a comeback.

We are not politicians, Lets not talk ourselves out of work!

bruce wayne

Mellor wrote: »

I think its best not to name specific companies. I'm not sure of the legalities of discussion the business of a private company on a public forum, but more importantly, its a small sector and if I was let go I'd rather my dismissal wasn't broadcast about.

very good point, apologies

No6

I'm not throwing in the towel yet Uncle Tom I'm just assessing my options!!

Poor Uncle Tom

Good on you, No.6, the profession needs people like you. We'ed be poorer without some spirit.

What about the rest of you?

nmg-lky

Thankfully the practice i'm in is still pretty busy, but heard others in the northwest aint so lucky. Mind you can see a slow down on new work coming in.

Garroldy

We now have a Catch 22 situation where building costs are becoming cheaper ( supply outstripping demand ) but the lending insitutions are now getting iffy about lending money, even for house extensions.

It doesn't help that the media are bombarding the public with doom and gloom. Makes everybody jumpy. This too shall pass..........

Slig

Garroldy wrote: »

We now have a Catch 22 situation where building costs are becoming cheaper ( supply outstripping demand ) but the lending insitutions are now getting iffy about lending money, even for house extensions.

It doesn't help that the media are bombarding the public with doom and gloom. Makes everybody jumpy. This too shall pass..........

only problem I can see is that its the arch techs that are going first:(
Employers keep the Architects and Engineers for the PI and to head the big projects etc. draftsmen and cad technicians are cheap and do all the legwork. Because nobody really knows what we do we seem the most expendable from the executives point of view.

sinnerboy

England was ( more than ) grand for 10 years , but don't want to go back .
Stay the course folks don't panic

Poor Uncle Tom

Well said, maybe its a support group we need, not a representation body!

Slig

Any chance the admins on boards could pay me a 30K per annum salary to write smart ass answers to legitimate posts?

No6

I agree Uncle Tom, we have a few representative bodies already, if everybody engages with the and boosts their numbers they will have more teeth and might start to get somewhere, in the mean time we need to stcik together, help each other out when we can and share our general acculumated wisdom (ahem if any!!):D

Garroldy

Slig wrote: »

arch techs are going first.....Employers keep the Architects...for the PI and to head the big projects.....technicians are cheap and do all the legwork. Because nobody really knows what we do we seem the most expendable.

I would say it depends on the practice. I headed a number of large projects, post design stage, while I was employed. Also there were architects and AT's along the way that I wouldn't let manage the building of a garden shed.

An employer would be very foolish to drop staff based on qualification rather than ability.

RKQ

One in the same, my friend.
Wouldn't a representative body be a support group and a place to share knowledge / experiences?
Isn't that what we are lacking?
Lots of bodies but none a perfect fit...

Poor Uncle Tom

I happen to have a lot of faith in the future of our profession, so much so I've taken on yet another AT full time into our practice only three weeks ago. I agree we need to stick together as a profession (see some of my previous posts). I also agree we need representation (also see some of my previous posts).

I also happen to think we need a sense of humour, it helps in all situations, imo.

Mellor

Slig wrote: »

only problem I can see is that its the arch techs that are going first:(
Employers keep the Architects and Engineers for the PI and to head the big projects etc. draftsmen and cad technicians are cheap and do all the legwork. Because nobody really knows what we do we seem the most expendable from the executives point of view.

Hmm, i'm not sure.
the idea of cutting staff is not to reduce company numbers, but to reduce payroll.
In all areas of business, its upper members staff that are most beneficial to lay off. They get paid more, so if somebody can do the same job on a lower salary. I wouldn't think that anyone is safe.

archtech

Mellor wrote: »

In all areas of business, its upper members staff that are most beneficial to lay off. They get paid more, so if somebody can do the same job on a lower salary. I wouldn't think that anyone is safe.

totally agree.employers will be looking for value from their staff.

No6

archtech wrote: »

totally agree.employers will be looking for value from their staff.

Look around who's on the lowest pay they're the ones they'll keep... meanwhile I'm going to lay myself off today!!:eek:

RKQ

I agree its usually about cutting payroll.
But there are other factors too, like redundancy payment and minimum notice.
For example a a two year staff member would cost 2 weeks wages for every year served plus an extra week. So older staff could cost more to let go! (Higher wage & longer years with company etc)

Minimum Notice 2 year staff = one week.
10 year staff = 6 weeks notice!
You are entitled to compensation if minimum notice isn't given.

Check out www.oasis.gov.ie

Steady on, we are not going back to the 80's! Lets keep a cool head.:cool:

No6

Its ok I found a new job for myself and have taken myself on!! Whats wrong with the 80's RKQ did you not love the new romantics?? Seriously though, I'm not worried about the work currently I've a nice ammount on, I'm worried about how many projects are going to get the chop or put on hold indefinately because the banks are not lending money and then the problem is getting paid for the work you have done!!

RKQ

I thought the same but it seems the banks are still lending money!
And that lending is growing!

It seems our economy is in a good state to "ride" out this blip provided our Government don't do anything silly! Wage talks are extremly imortant for us all. They could decide how bad our economy gets into recession.

So maybe, in mid 2010 we'll be looking back wondering what all the fuss was about! ( Lets drink to that!)

Work is less abundant than last year but its still steady.... thank God the "madness" is gone...

I suppose its actually a good time to build or buy.:D

No6

I don't know about that RKQ, theres some that was agreed already and just slow to draw down that they can't get out of but for new buisness the've got very very tight and particular, underwriters scrutinising eveything very very closely.

RKQ

No.6 I was suprised too but I'm just quoting the Economist on tv last night.

It is a great time to refurbish, extend or build - rates are dropping and trades are available. The market is competitive.

Wage talks and inflation hold the key. I remember the sterling crisis in 1992/93 and special tax relief introduced by the Government.... the economy bounced back.

Lets hope this is an 18 month lull, hope it improves.
Lets not talk ourselves into a depression!

Mellor

RKQ wrote: »

Minimum Notice 2 year staff = one week.
10 year staff = 6 weeks notice!
You are entitled to compensation if minimum notice isn't given.

I'd imagine that notice wont be a problem, directors will know that cuts will need to be made in plenty of time.
Also, a ten year employee, needs 6 weeks, but a person in the same level in the company, may of transfered from a different company more recently, say 2 years.


So, I reckon that the people most at risk are higher members of staff that have hopped around different companies.

One Cold Hand

Any more updates on this recently? A friend of mine was saying his office of 35 or so staff had let 10 go in this month, with more to go next month.

Sounds like everyone is over-panicing? Might consider staying a bit longer in Australia!

sinnerboy

Things are a little grim and I would remain in Oz for a little longer . ( Spent 18 months in Sydney myself in 90-91 ) . 12 degrees and p****ing down hard in Dublin today .

HOWEVER - my hope / expectation / prayer is

Oil is starting to fall in price . It can't continue to rise if no one can afford it . Simple economics will kick in. Yes it is a dwindling resource - but the dwindle is exaggerated ( IMO ) . We will go nuclear ( one day ) - reference George Mumbiot on BBC 2 Newsnight last night

Likewise the credit crunch will not endure in-definitely . As in Ireland in the 80's when we , taxpayers , propped up the banks - this is happening in UK + US . ( Virile private sector / enterprise culture my b******x !) The bottom is hit and the bounce back will happen

This is the darkest hour before the dawn . I think the rest of this year will not be pleasant - but you know what ?

Christmas will come , people will chill . Come New Year everybody will realise that their hands and legs have not fallen off and some confidence will restore

Wait and see

.

garp

sinnerboy wrote: »

Things are a little grim and I would remain in Oz for a little longer . ( Spent 18 months in Sydney myself in 90-91 ) . 12 degrees and p****ing down hard in Dublin today .

HOWEVER - my hope / expectation / prayer is

Oil is starting to fall in price . It can't continue to rise if no one can afford it . Simple economics will kick in. Yes it is a dwindling resource - but the dwindle is exaggerated ( IMO ) . We will go nuclear ( one day ) - reference George Mumbiot on BBC 2 Newsnight last night

Likewise the credit crunch will not endure in-definitely . As in Ireland in the 80's when we , taxpayers , propped up the banks - this is happening in UK + US . ( Virile private sector / enterprise culture my b******x !) The bottom is hit and the bounce back will happen

This is the darkest hour before the dawn . I think the rest of this year will not be pleasant - but you know what ?

Christmas will come , people will chill . Come New Year everybody will realise that their hands and legs have not fallen off and some confidence will restore

Wait and see

.

For a sinner you shine a nice light on things. I hope that you are right.

sinnerboy

..... and as I type now - the clouds are breaking and the sun is making it's warmth felt ....:)

Poor Uncle Tom

Nice One...Well said..:)

sysopr.com

Hmmmm...

Somehow I think you might want to try this version instead:

Oil prices next Leg up to a new trading level
Gold next Leg up to a new trading level
Ireland housing prices START to really fall (should last about 3-19 years see Japan) and prices may retrace to either 33% 50% or 66% (fibonacci)

Of which I would imageine 66% as ireland has really grown too fast and too unsustainably.

That should lead us to a Credit Card Crisis. (here and in US/UK)

18 months after that there will be a Banking OverDraft Crisis in Ireland only.

Business fold everywhere starting with the Biggest construction companies (i.e. see spain), major consolidation.

Unemployment to alltime new high, mass Irish emigration to other economies including the poles that already started leaving.

Irish used car exports start growing significantly.

US declares recession after 3 years US declares Depression (i.e. see Kondrateiff 74-Year Cycle )

German economy starts to pickup ever so slightly and they start buying out Irish properties that are on sale for peanuts to the dollar since everyone is look for a way out at the same time.

A good reference point (Support and Resistance) should be the prices for housing in 1998 when the Irish Central Bank wared Irish citizens that housing prices had grown unsustainably too high.

There is a lot more to this and history thereto, i really am just thowing some main points out. I am writing an article for a news journal which will have a much better and more detailed and more chronological view.

any questions though, you can address them to economy.ie it is a free public service, maily geared to longer standing businesses

sinnerboy

sysopr.com wrote: »

Hmmmm...

Somehow I think you might want to try this version instead:

Oil prices next Leg up to a new trading level

And who will pay this.. and how . Prices can only rise where markets will pay .

sysopr.com wrote: »

Gold next Leg up to a new trading level
Ireland housing prices START to really fall (should last about 3-19 years see Japan) and prices may retrace to either 33% 50% or 66% (fibonacci)

Of which I would imageine 66% as ireland has really grown too fast and too unsustainably.

.

We have one of the highest % of home ownership - in the world . This creates a break on collapsing prices that is not a factor elsewhere . For a closer comparison you have to look to the UK - 19 years of falling prices - not going to happen my friend .

sysopr.com wrote: »

That should lead us to a Credit Card Crisis. (here and in US/UK)

I see no link - can you elaborate ?

sysopr.com wrote: »

18 months after that there will be a Banking OverDraft Crisis in Ireland only.

Business fold everywhere starting with the Biggest construction companies (i.e. see spain), major consolidation.

Unemployment to alltime new high, mass Irish emigration to other economies including the poles that already started leaving.

Irish used car exports start growing significantly.

US declares recession after 3 years US declares Depression (i.e. see Kondrateiff 74-Year Cycle )

74 year cycle ? I am not an economist but i seriously doubt such a cycle exists outside of text book(s). Not one economy , save for those remote and isolated societies , can be compared between such distances of time .

sysopr.com wrote: »

German economy starts to pickup ever so slightly and they start buying out Irish properties that are on sale for peanuts to the dollar since everyone is look for a way out at the same time.

I hope it does . German investment here will tend to maintain Irish property prices - but I don't expect there will be many bargains

sysopr.com wrote: »

A good reference point (Support and Resistance) should be the prices for housing in 1998 when the Irish Central Bank wared Irish citizens that housing prices had grown unsustainably too high.

And what happened after that ? Accurate predictions ? no

sysopr.com wrote: »

There is a lot more to this and history thereto, i really am just thowing some main points out. I am writing an article for a news journal which will have a much better and more detailed and more chronological view.

Keep us posted

sysopr.com wrote: »

any questions though, you can address them to economy.ie it is a free public service, maily geared to longer standing businesses

Thanks for this - but i accept very little of what you have posted

muffler

Job losses in architects offices is what this thread is about. If the price of tea in China has an effect then I dont want to know about it.

Now can we leave the global economy aside and get back on topic please.

garp

Just got informed that the office (Boss's) are considering cut backs, be it a 3 day week for a while or it could be worse...
Not what you want to hear on a wet Monday morning....

Slig

As a wise man once told me:
"as long as you can opperate a dustpan and brush, you'll find work"

One Cold Hand

interesting article here

muffler

Not a very nice read but indicative of the times.

I know of 1 firm who have let 4 go in the last few weeks and another firm who have the guys on a 3 day week.

archtech

unfortunately within recent months there has been significant cutbacks in our office, gione back to just myself and the boss as it used to be in the old days

Mellor

One Cold Hand wrote: »

interesting article here

The article confirms what was mention here a few months ago, by way of naming companies.
I also found the two architects quoted as interesting choices

gman2k

I was let go on Friday, along with one possibly two others..... everyone else got a 10% cut

So if anyone knows of firms hiring :-) let me know!

It'll give me a good bit of time to go and finish my self build down in the South East!

smashey

gman2k wrote: »

I was let go on Friday, along with one possibly two others..... everyone else got a 10% cut

So if anyone knows of firms hiring :-) let me know!

It'll give me a good bit of time to go and finish my self build down in the South East!

Sorry to hear about that gman. Keep us informed of any progress on the job front.

Poor Uncle Tom

gman2k wrote: »

I was let go on Friday.....down in the South East!

Sorry to hear that. We took on our last AT earlier this year and a friend of mine has taken on a part timer recently. PM me your location in the SouthEast, not promising anything but I do hear a lot of what goes on and you never know.