New VRT system shambles...

Stevie Dakota

OK, so 70% of people are now going to buy diesels, meaning big savings for consumers, for now. With the Government coffers bare, and a huge whole appearing in VRT revenue you can see that taxes, stealth and otherwise looming large in the next budget. So enjoy the feeling for now, because it's going to be short lived. Oh, yes, and expect to see every Tom Dick and Harry in a manual 520D.

mondeo

Thats why diesal is more expensive then petrol because everyone will be going for a diesal now...Garages have it all figured out ha.

niceirishfella

This is all a result of people voting for FF and the Greens....its some mess

RobAMerc

these clowns f*cked eveything else in the country up what made you think they'd get this right ?

Anyway - don't worry soon as we all buy low Co2 cars they'll tax us heavily on cars which emit guess what - hi nox gases or some ****e.

I think I will just F*ck Off outa this place - getting fairly sick of it.

Riskymove

It was probably 70% petrol before so whats the big deal?:pac:

anyway its not that black and white, a 520D may be cheaper but its still unaffordable for many, especially in current economic climate

Zonda999

It'll also mean much less money for the councils.PreJuly, i would think that 1.4 cars to be the most popular.(300e around to tax for a year)Now, the diesel versions of all these cars will be bought instead of them.(The majority will be paying just 150e a year in tax)/That means a cut of 50% for the councils on the most common types of cars.It WONT last

niceirishfella

I agree with Zonda.
It will not last........the greens policies don't make money to run the country.......the COST money like this vrt re-alignment.
I give it another 24 months and we can expect changes.

Guy:Incognito

mondeo wrote: »

Thats why diesal is more expensive then petrol because everyone will be going for a diesal now...Garages have it all figured out ha.

So diesel is getting dearer in every country because we changed our tax system? Wow that must mean we control the world.

whippet

niceirishfella wrote: »

This is all a result of people voting for FF and the Greens....its some mess

actually .. if you didn't vote for FF the Greens would have gotten into government via the alternative.

Zonda999

That said, they may get this money back in the form of the "carbon tax"

Beta Ray Bill

RobAMerc wrote: »

these clowns f*cked eveything else in the country up what made you think they'd get this right ?

Anyway - don't worry soon as we all buy low Co2 cars they'll tax us heavily on cars which emit guess what - hi nox gases or some ****e.

I think I will just F*ck Off outa this place - getting fairly sick of it.

I'm also quite tempted

drunkmonkey

I really hate John Gormley....I think he's a <SNIP> who should be locked up on heracy charge....

I hope he makes a right **** up of this and gets fired....

Any man who thinks he can change the weather should be taken out and left in a smoking shed for a week and see how he gets on........

JHMEG

niceirishfella wrote: »

I give it another 24 months and we can expect changes.

I'd say it will be corrected by the budget this December. Unless SIMI can stave it off as the car trade is dead on its feet and many are worried the average punter will wait until Jan 1 2009 to buy that new car.

drunkmonkey

The average punter with a 3 bedroom semi will be in negative equity by the 1st of January...they won't get finance on a packet of jelly beans let alone a new car...

I reckon they only way there going to stimulate the new car market is drop the price of vrt and fuel....oh and bring back petrol...

moleyC

To compensate for the lost revenue they might decide to really make the polluter pay, ie tax fuel, and while doing that they might discover that per liter burned diesel puts out ~13% more CO2 so it will be taxed higher making it very bad for diesel owners.

Tipsy Mac

Gormley, credit where credit is due has made the only move ever in reducing VRT and making it a choice where it's emissions based and not CC based.

I think alot of people are under the impression that the road tax on their current pre 2008 car goes up or down from tomorrow.

niceirishfella

Tipsy Mac wrote: »

Gormley, credit where credit is due has made the only move ever in reducing VRT and making it a choice where it's emissions based and not CC based.

I think alot of people are under the impression that the road tax on their current pre 2008 car goes up or down from tomorrow.

Credit where credit is due?
He's killed the CAR SALES industry and has put jobs on the line?
FFS....open yer eyes Tipsy?!!!?!?>!?>!?>!:eek::eek:

JHMEG

niceirishfella wrote: »

Credit where credit is due?
He's killed the CAR SALES industry and has put jobs on the line?
FFS....open yer eyes Tipsy?!!!?!?>!?>!?>!:eek::eek:

In fairness he has hashed it up. U-turns (on road tax), delaying things, etc. One wonders what the fcuk they were doing during the so called consultation period.

The changes should have been anounced in the budget in December and implememented on Jan 1.

vectra

Hold on a second...!!
What the hell are you lot on about..??
For as long as I can remember everyone and their cousin in this country was bitchin about "VRT " Crippling Road Tax"
Get real guys
Enjoy it while you can.. We could be all dead in a years time..:D

niceirishfella

Vectra, it changes nothing for many - as the real cars i and many people want to drive now are more to VRT, tax etc.
So, WTF are you on about?

E92

moleyC wrote: »

To compensate for the lost revenue they might decide to really make the polluter pay, ie tax fuel, and while doing that they might discover that per litre burned diesel puts out ~13% more CO2 so it will be taxed higher making it very bad for diesel owners.

Time they did. We shouldn't be subsidising a fuel that is much worse for our health. They already tax diesel at 6 cent less per litre than petrol. Clearly that won't last.

The latest direct injection petrols get much closer to diesels on CO2, and of course don't pollute as much of the bad stuff as diesel thanks to the EU letting diesels pollute much more NOx than petrols. They do unfortunately pollute PM, though unlike diesels which pollute it all the time, they only pollute it when they are in economy mode.

Ultra low sulphur petrol not only reduces NOx but much more importantly PM as well.

Zonda999

There will certainly be job losses in the car industry but i feel that these are more due to the current economic climate rather than the tax changes.Dont get me wrong, the tax changes will contribute to it alright.I even heard stories of people not even bothering servicing their cars these days FFS

mondeo

RobAMerc wrote: »

these clowns f*cked eveything else in the country up what made you think they'd get this right ?

Anyway - don't worry soon as we all buy low Co2 cars they'll tax us heavily on cars which emit guess what - hi nox gases or some ****e.

I think I will just F*ck Off outa this place - getting fairly sick of it.

I 100% F*cking agree with you. I am getting out of here, I 'm already looking for a small house in spain to relocate my business too and I'm gonna enjoy motoring life alot cheaper then over here....

vectra

niceirishfella wrote: »

Vectra, it changes nothing for many - as the real cars i and many people want to drive now are more to VRT, tax etc.
So, WTF are you on about?

Define " Real Car " ??

If you and many other WANT to drive those cars then Tough $hit.. Thats your choice. :rolleyes:

I have had Petrol guzzlers all my life.
Now I jump on the bandwagon and am enjoying this new system so why cant everyone else?

Guy:Incognito

niceirishfella wrote: »

Vectra, it changes nothing for many - as the real cars i and many people want to drive now are more to VRT, tax etc.
So, WTF are you on about?

So what you mean is it doesnt suit YOU, therefore is automatically bad.

vectra

Stekelly wrote: »

So what you mean is it doesnt suit YOU, therefore is automatically bad.

+1 :cool:

E92

There are loads of quality cars out there - from the Golf GTI to a 535d to a TTS with DSG which will be cheaper from tomorrow. I, for one fail to see how this is a bad thing. Even Porsche 911 owners can save money as once the latest models with direct injection will escape €2k road tax and get into the €1k tax band, meaning that it will be €491 cheaper on tax a year than before. The Boxster and Cayman will even get into 28% VRT and €600 road tax in a few months time thanks to direct injection too.

How is this a bad thing?

The clearout of Irish special 1.4 and 1.6 petrols in the Focus and Mondeo classes respectively is also good news. The only concern I have is that we are all going to have to breathe in sh1ttier air and are more likely to die thanks to Gormley's efforts to get us all driving paraffin stoves.

Ironically in Germany diesel sales dipped down to 44.5% last month. They were 47% at the start of the year, and were up to 49.4% at one stage last year. Germans have no great love for diesel; they were only buying it cause it was cheaper in recent times to do so. I don't know why anyone would choose diesel over petrol if it wasn't for the cost.

Padraig Mor

Posted this yesterday in the VRT calculation thread but may be more appropriate here:


Jetfire hits on an important point here which I haven't really seen addressed. The govt have openly said that they expect the VRT changes to be revenue neutral, i.e. total tax take to be unaffected as VRT drops should be cancelled out by rises. As reported here, however, many manufacturers have slashed their list prices to remain competitive, even where models should have risen (eg. Mercedes). Even if sales continued at normal levels, this would lead to a decreased VRT take. Couple this with the massive drop in new car sales we've seen this year (due to economic circumstances IMO - not VRT confusion) and the government are facing a massive VRT (and VAT) shortfall below their projections.

They ain't gonna sit idly by while this happens!

I would strongly expect the VRT rates to be overhauled in December's budget - and not in favour of car purchasers. Naturally, a fig leaf of environmentalism will be used to disguise it. The 'bargains' that are currently available in the new car market may not be quite as attractive come January....

pburns

Stekelly wrote: »

So diesel is getting dearer in every country because we changed our tax system? Wow that must mean we control the world.

Yeah, there's a lot of BS about what a shambles the country is now the **** has hit the fan. The spiralling cost of diesel is a Europe-wide issue. I'm not worried about it - for now...

The cars that 90% of people buy - small petrol and medium/big diesels - have had their VRT slashed tho. I think the government seriously misjudged and there will be 're-alignment'.

RedorDead

They cannot change bands in the Dec 08 budget. The earliest they can surely change vrt bands in the budget in Dec 09??? :eek:

cantdecide

drunkmonkey wrote: »

Any man who thinks he can change the weather should be taken out and left in a smoking shed for a week and see how he gets on........

I like that.

As an endangered motorist, this is a rotten little rock to be stuck on for sure and when they go at it, they only make it worse.

They'll save a fortune in investment in public transport when we're all at home on the dole.

niceirishfella

Stekelly wrote: »

So what you mean is it doesnt suit YOU, therefore is automatically bad.

Hi Stekelly,
Well, it does and it does'nt. I have a buiness so i have a business vehicle for weekday work so i will enjoy the new regime tax changes for the changing od my work car.....I'll buy a low co2 one and will enjoy the benefits.

But then for the weekends, i have a sports car - and thats when the new regime does'nt suit me and many of my fellow club members. There are lots of people being discommoded by these changes - we all don't have to agree on them.

Cyrus

i doubt they will change them, they left them alone for decades before this

they just tax fuel some more

pburns

niceirishfella wrote: »

Hi Stekelly,
Well, it does and it does'nt. I have a buiness so i have a business vehicle for weekday work so i will enjoy the new regime tax changes for the changing od my work car.....I'll buy a low co2 one and will enjoy the benefits.

But then for the weekends, i have a sports car - and thats when the new regime does'nt suit me and many of my fellow club members. There are lots of people being discommoded by these changes - we all don't have to agree on them.

Yeah but your original comment that the new rules were detrimental to those, like you, who wanted to buy 'real' cars was a bit churlish & elitist. As has been pointed out, there are plenty of nice (really nice!) cars - both petrol and diesel - that will benefit from the changes. It's all about playing the system and it's much easier to do that now than in the bad old CC-based VRT days.

With the new rules a bit of smart buying means 90% of people can probably buy into a nicer car - a more powerful diesel or one of the more efficent petrol models the Germans have been so quick to get to market.

If a few pencil-mickies feel their life isn't complete without a V8, V12, Mustang or TVR - well that's their tough **** (and their choice). In the grand scheme of things efficency is being rewarded - better than the arbitry old system we had.

mike65

Fair to say the timing couldn't have been worse if they'd tried.

Mike.

niceirishfella

pbruns wrote;
If a few pencil-mickies feel their life isn't complete without a V8, V12, Mustang or TVR - well that's their tough **** (and their choice). In the grand scheme of things efficency is being rewarded - better than the arbitry old system we had.[/quote]


Pencil mickie's? - pburn's, watch what your saying here..........As i'm not going to stoop to your immature low and call you a "wimp or a tree hugging wimp" for having a puney c02 friendly car" for example.

LOL

also, all this new co2 rating stuff means nothing if you go to trade and they give you 5 grand less for your trade in and the car your buying is 5 grand less of list price. Its the "cost to change" thats important in trading - and if its not changing inline with the new regime - there are no savings.......unless you're buying straight for cash.

niceirishfella

mike65 wrote: »

Fair to say the timing couldn't have been worse if they'd tried.

Mike.

+1


now was not the time to execute this change - with a massive slowdown on the countrys hands. This is the kind of green policy that could and maybe will TANK this countries economy.

Riskymove

niceirishfella wrote: »

Hi Stekelly,
Well, it does and it does'nt. I have a buiness so i have a business vehicle for weekday work so i will enjoy the new regime tax changes for the changing od my work car.....I'll buy a low co2 one and will enjoy the benefits.

But then for the weekends, i have a sports car - and thats when the new regime does'nt suit me and many of my fellow club members. There are lots of people being discommoded by these changes - we all don't have to agree on them.

If you already have the sports car then how does your situation change? It will be on the old system forever!!

niceirishfella

Riskymove wrote: »

If you already have the sports car then how does your situation change? It will be on the old system forever!!

sure...but its if i want to change my sports car for a newer model etc...

bones36

just baught an 05 a4 avant sline 2.0 tdi in from UK. 158grm/km c02

met a nice girl in navan vrt office who told me it would cost €5504 vrt, so i plodded down to the bank and got a draft made up for said sum, only to return and meet a middle age dodgy perm lady spawned of the third reich who asked me had it alloys,met paint,sat nav,leather and demanded an inspection. after ins, she sent me away and said she would re-assess the figure and ring me tomorrow. i was raging to say the least, she made me feel like a criminal and was totally ignorant. The revenue vrt calc is bulls**t. (buyer beware). its just a rip. why dont they have these extras listed on site if there so concerned about them (stealt tax). i explained that sline has alloys and met paint and was incorparated in my vrt calc allready, she said it didn,t matter and would be extra. cleaner emitting cars my ars*. the govenment dont give a sh** about the enviroment, niether do john gormless and his bunch of plastic green policy pushers.

im really PIS**D off with dis country and always expect to be dissapointed when dealing with official public sector departments.

At dis moment id buy a second hand range rover and leave it running with a block on the excellarator outside gov buildings ( if i could afford to).

aghhhhhhhhhhhhhh

Zonda999

bones36 wrote: »

just baught an 05 a4 avant sline 2.0 tdi in from UK. 158grm/km c02

met a nice girl in navan vrt office who told me it would cost €5504 vrt, so i plodded down to the bank and got a draft made up for said sum, only to return and meet a middle age dodgy perm lady spawned of the third reich who asked me had it alloys,met paint,sat nav,leather and demanded an inspection. after ins, she sent me away and said she would re-assess the figure and ring me tomorrow. i was raging to say the least, she made me feel like a criminal and was totally ignorant. The revenue vrt calc is bulls**t. (buyer beware). its just a rip. why dont they have these extras listed on site if there so concerned about them (stealt tax). i explained that sline has alloys and met paint and was incorparated in my vrt calc allready, she said it didn,t matter and would be extra. cleaner emitting cars my ars*. the govenment dont give a sh** about the enviroment, niether do john gormless and his bunch of plastic green policy pushers.

im really PIS**D off with dis country and always expect to be dissapointed when dealing with official public sector departments.

At dis moment id buy a second hand range rover and leave it running with a block on the excellarator outside gov buildings ( if i could afford to).

aghhhhhhhhhhhhhh

Thats totally unfair.You should be charged VRT based on the standard UK spec of an S-Line A4.I'd kick up a good bit of fuss to make sure you are only charged the basic amount, no more(Assuming there are no extras)

niceirishfella

Why not elude to going public on this matter to the press and radio. Tell them you have contacts in the media who'd love this story. I did this once and it worked for me. That may change their tune.

Vertakill

You could try going through the appeal format. It may or may not work but, it's better than nothing.

Although I'm surprised you were asked all these questions about it because in Tallaght, they had no intentions of looking at any cars. I could've had a jacuzzi and a few plasma screens in my car for all they knew and they didn't bother checking.

But your right though, bit ridiculous with all the 'green this, green that' crap and then you get shafted for alloys... I'd love to know what people think when they move to this country and find out all the bullsh1t stuff that we've got.

drunkmonkey

The new VRT calculator has been modified to generate more money, I've been tracking one particular car (mine) and the open market selling value 2 weeks ago was 14,400 now the open market selling value has risen to 18,900

I don't see how a second hand car can appricate €4,500 in 2 weeks in a recession...

The revenue are thieves plain and simple....

Bandara

E92 wrote: »

There are loads of quality cars out there - from the Golf GTI to a 535d to a TTS with DSG which will be cheaper from tomorrow. I, for one fail to see how this is a bad thing. Even Porsche 911 owners can save money as once the latest models with direct injection will escape €2k road tax and get into the €1k tax band, meaning that it will be €491 cheaper on tax a year than before. The Boxster and Cayman will even get into 28% VRT and €600 road tax in a few months time thanks to direct injection too.

How is this a bad thing?

The clearout of Irish special 1.4 and 1.6 petrols in the Focus and Mondeo classes respectively is also good news. The only concern I have is that we are all going to have to breathe in sh1ttier air and are more likely to die thanks to Gormley's efforts to get us all driving paraffin stoves.

Ironically in Germany diesel sales dipped down to 44.5% last month. They were 47% at the start of the year, and were up to 49.4% at one stage last year. Germans have no great love for diesel; they were only buying it cause it was cheaper in recent times to do so. I don't know why anyone would choose diesel over petrol if it wasn't for the cost.

Hi

Could someone explain this to me please, I'm currently in the middle of buying a Cayman S from the UK. Have there been things changed that mean I'll be paying less VRT on the the car?

Thanks for any help.

p.

Cyrus

in a word no

galwaytt

Cyrus wrote: »

in a word no

Or in two word: **** no !!

Nope, you're going to get hammered - an extra 4% on VRT iirc, and that's based on new, higher OMSP prices as well...........so god knows how much that works out to.......

What age Cayman are you looking at? If it's 08 onwards, new or used, you'll also be paying 2k p.a. road tax.

I hope you think it's worth it - as P car man myself, I think it's a bridge too far.........

Mind you, there's 1 (or 2) iirc, for sale in Galway - are you sure it's still saving anything to bring one in ?

Beta Ray Bill

The New VRT system is the worst thing that has happened for motor enthusiasts in this country since the introduction of VRT itself

VRT was originally introduced when there was maybe 1 car per family, and there wasn't that many cars on the road at the time either. It was a quick buck for the government which at the time was handy to have but they didn't REALLY need as the money generated wasn't very substantial. It's changed from being that to be a major part of the revenue, and the government absolutely need it.

And now we have Oul Johnny come along and throw another spanner in the works with this VRT change.

The new system makes absolutely no sense.
Example: I decide to be good to the environment and leave my gas guzzler at home and take the train to work. (I only drive on the weekends, and at that only for maybe 3-4 hours in total )
while another person sits for 3 hours each day in Dublin traffic 5 days a week in there mildly Eco friendly car, and even though they put out WAY more CO2 per week than I do, I am penalized.

there is no logic to it at all, given the system is designed to reduce CO2 output!

Given the fact that a lot of Diesel priced cars have come down in price. the only REAL savings are being made on top end cars that only the very wealthy can afford. Another case of the Rich Getting Richer.

And even at that a Diesel will never be as much fun to drive as a petrol car. any real enthusiasts will agree with me.

A lot of people are saying that everyone is going to be driving around in a BMW Diesel. well I've got news for you... most people still cannot afford them especially in the current economic climate. I think what we will see is instead of people buying a 1.6 Focus (which is what they could have afforded originally)... they will opt for the 1.4 which believe me "Wouldn't pull the knickers off a Brazzer". I'm sure this trend is becoming very common.

Also the Car importers are being hit hard. The Likes of Jap Cars, Per4mance Cars etc. I wouldn't be at all surprised if they were out of business this time next year.

Anyone who wants to own a new performance car now is going to be hit VERY VERY Hard. I was seriously considering bringing in an EVO X at some point in the future, but €2000 tax on a car that would only be used on the weekends it outrageous. considering the Tax for a 2L was approx €560

And Lastly anyone who thinks they can change the weather needs their head examined. And how can one little country like Ireland make a difference. I would imagine we account for less than 0.05% of all CO2 produced. Its an absolute Joke.

The solution... leave this dump... which I plan to unless things change very Very Quickly.

Zube

grahambo wrote: »

I think what we will see is instead of people buying a 1.6 Focus (which is what they could have afforded originally)... they will opt for the 1.4 which believe me "Wouldn't pull the knickers off a Brazzer". I'm sure this trend is becoming very common.

No, under the new system, the more efficient Focus diesels will sell. A 1.8 TDci costs only €600 more than a 1.4 petrol.

The solution... leave this dump

Ciao ciao!

Bandara

galwaytt wrote: »

Or in two word: **** no !!

Nope, you're going to get hammered - an extra 4% on VRT iirc, and that's based on new, higher OMSP prices as well...........so god knows how much that works out to.......

What age Cayman are you looking at? If it's 08 onwards, new or used, you'll also be paying 2k p.a. road tax.

I hope you think it's worth it - as P car man myself, I think it's a bridge too far.........

Mind you, there's 1 (or 2) iirc, for sale in Galway - are you sure it's still saving anything to bring one in ?

Thanks for the info, for the record its a 2007 Cayman S, shed loads of extras (including the Ceramic brakes) for €36,300. Even with the duty its about €62,000 landed which is close to €20,000 cheaper than here. I couldn't belive the price difference myself.

Cyrus

Hammertime wrote: »

Thanks for the info, for the record its a 2007 Cayman S, shed loads of extras (including the Ceramic brakes) for €36,300. Even with the duty its about €62,000 landed which is close to €20,000 cheaper than here. I couldn't belive the price difference myself.

is that the going rate over there or an exceptional deal? looking at one for my next car hopefully

congrats!:cool: