Truly depressing article on men, women and work.

Amazotheamazing

I wish I'd married for money

http://www.independent.ie/lifestyle/relationships/i-wish-id- married-for-money-1418762.html

There's a lot to be said for having your bills paid, says a mum-of-two

'I have become jealous of my friends who rely on their husbands as the breadwinners'

Monday June 23 2008

When Bill and I got married his relaxed attitude towards money amused me. He's a teacher and enjoys his job. I work in medical sales: more stressful, but it pays well. I have, however, become secretly, overwhelmingly, envious of my friends, who can rely on their husbands as the breadwinners.

Our first home was a tiny flat in a lovely area, which was fine even when our first daughter was born.

Our second daughter's arrival two years later put a strain on space and finances, so we had to move - and I had to learn to bite my tongue so as not to seem ungrateful.

It was then that I noticed that my best friend Carol's standard of living was better than ours: her husband is a consultant surgeon and their first home was a five-bed, detached house.

We bought a three-bed ex council house in a nice street, but I couldn't help comparing it with friends' houses.

I've had promotions, but Bill has no plans to apply for anything beyond head of department, his current position; I think he should go for a deputy head post.

He's a brilliant dad, and with the girls now reaching their teens, I appreciate how well he gets on with them and puts so much effort into their homework and hobbies.

I'd never admit this to friends, but I believe that there's more to life than being good parents.

Carol is having a champagne party for her 40th, as well as a week in Paris with her husband and a weekend in New York with their 14-year-old daughter. I pretended to be thrilled, but was sick with envy.

I know many people can't take a holiday at all, but we mix with people who have no mortgages, work part time or not at all, can afford private education and have three or four holidays a year.

I feel resentful, especially as it's the men who bring in the money; and even if Bill were a head teacher, he wouldn't come close.

When out with the girls, I hear Susan moan about John's business trips and I have to pinch myself to keep from shouting that his €250,000 salary must make up for some of his absences.

Or Trisha: she inherited a house from her parents, which means that though her husband is on a normal salary, she needn't work, and spends her time at the gym.

Bill tells our girls that they can achieve anything and I agree, but when they start dating, I'll try to guide them (behind his back) towards men who can give them the sort of life I've never had.

Feminism's fine, but there's a lot to be said for having your bills paid.

Sir Digby Chicken Caesar

lol
two steps forward, four steps back.

Dragan

I lol'd.

flogen

What a moron.

kmick

This has to be a joke. If its real then it confirms what men have said about women since time began.

Dragan

kmick wrote: »

This has to be a joke. If its real then it confirms what men have said about women since time began.

Which is what? Personally i have always gone with the argument that women are sexier and more interesting than men.

Then again, i'm a guy.;)

Zulu

What a cunt.

kmick

Dragan wrote: »

Which is what? Personally i have always gone with the argument that women are sexier and more interesting than men.

Then again, i'm a guy.;)

That women dont know what they want and when they do get what they want they often decide they didnt want it in the first place (this is not my personal take on the situation by the way).

It ties in with a comment I heard from a friend on the dating scene. He went to wine dating and said all the women there were looking for a rich handsome man but were all 'out of shape' and in his words 'facially challenged'. Hes not rich by the way.

Kinetic^

God that cheered me up. Fùcking bag, hope the husband cops on and gets rid of the ungrateful cow.

MIN2511

Zulu wrote: »

What a cunt.

Why is she a ****? Because she wants more for her kids? Personally i want my kids to achieve more than i ever can.

Interesting story to say the least

Zulu

I'd suggest she's the cunt because she's not happy with a loving family; because she values money more than love.

Dragan

kmick wrote: »

That women dont know what they want and when they do get what they want they often decide they didnt want it in the first place (this is not my personal take on the situation by the way).

LoL, everyone does this. It's called being human.

GirlInterrupted

What a shallow materialistic cow. She needs a reality slap:D.

Amazotheamazing

I think it's depressing because she's honest.

How many mothers would disagree with her, how many push their daughters towards partners becuase of how well-off they may become? It's fine to be broke when you're dating, it's different when you've a whole lifetime of watching the pennies. It's depressing, but it's probably true for a lot more people than we care to admit.

Lil' Smiler

Jaysus... she'd be whinging if the husband had a higher paid job than his head of department one and wasn't there to be with the kids!! She should just make the most out of her life with what she has and appreciate it!!

Iago

http://www.independent.ie/lifestyle/relationships/i-wish-id-married-for-money-1418762.html

justsomebloke

eh, it's the usual grass is always greener article that helps sterotype women as being more interested in money and power that love

kmick

There is no author listed - wonder who wrote it.

the_syco

MIN2511 wrote: »

Why is she a ****? Because she wants more for her kids? Personally i want my kids to achieve more than i ever can.

Interesting story to say the least

She's a hairy-hole, cos she thinks that her nates cab't complain about the lack of a husband, as he brings in lots of cash. I doubt the husbands with the higher saleries have much time for their kids, tbh. This cow seems to think that once they bring back enough money that she can not work, and leave him to do all the work, she can live life like a queen, f**k everyone else (esp the guy she married).

Wibbs

There are quite a few women like that out there and the fact is the richer you are as a male, the more women you will get. The more shiny your lifestyle the more women you will attract.

I also know quite a few successful women that have forged good careers who when they hit their 30's want to find a more successful man than them and settle down with him have children and become a lady who lunches(maybe writes childrens books or somesuch).

From a purely practical point of view, as a guy I can fully understand them too. The fact is that women do the majority of the child rearing and facilities for them to continue working while doing so are often not practical or bloody expensive, so something has got to give.

IMHO This goes double for women who are higher on the looks dept. IE more choice of men at their fingertips. Same for rich guys too. They'll usually pull far better looking women than them. Similar reasons.

That's one set of women, but there are others that aren't like that. At all. I've known quite a few.

I do think this kinda thing is more obvious in a more affluent or at least, more upwardly mobile society, especially where the social services and general services availible to women are poor. A nervous society so to speak. America is the classic case. Women there are far more open about their aspirations to wealth. A good plan when you and your kids could be two paychecks away from living in your car if you're not wealthy enough to buffer the hard times.

I accept that there are women like that and equally there are women who are not. I would prefer the latter as they're likely to be more emotionally adaptable.

Sinfonia

Wibbs, I think you should have your own newspaper column. Well put.

pretty*monster

MIN2511 wrote: »

Why is she a ****? Because she wants more for her kids? Personally i want my kids to achieve more than i ever can.

Interesting story to say the least

Why doesn't she get a higher paying job if she wants more money then. It's an absolutly disgusting attitude to have, thinking thaty because her family doesn't have as high a standard of living as she likes that it must be her husband's fault.

kmick

Wibbs wrote: »

There are quite a few women like that out there and the fact is the richer you are as a male, the more women you will get. The more shiny your lifestyle the more women you will attract.

I also know quite a few successful women that have forged good careers who when they hit their 30's want to find a more successful man than them and settle down with him have children and become a lady who lunches(maybe writes childrens books or somesuch).

From a purely practical point of view, as a guy I can fully understand them too. The fact is that women do the majority of the child rearing and facilities for them to continue working while doing so are often not practical or bloody expensive, so something has got to give.

IMHO This goes double for women who are higher on the looks dept. IE more choice of men at their fingertips. Same for rich guys too. They'll usually pull far better looking women than them. Similar reasons.

That's one set of women, but there are others that aren't like that. At all. I've known quite a few.

I do think this kinda thing is more obvious in a more affluent or at least, more upwardly mobile society, especially where the social services and general services availible to women are poor. A nervous society so to speak. America is the classic case. Women there are far more open about their aspirations to wealth. A good plan when you and your kids could be two paychecks away from living in your car if you're not wealthy enough to buffer the hard times.

I accept that there are women like that and equally there are women who are not. I would prefer the latter as they're likely to be more emotionally adaptable.

Any man or women who chooses a partner solely due to wealth is a genetic throwback as far as Im concerned. If this is representative of Irish Women (and I certainly dont think it is) then equality as a concept is dead.

Ginny

Meh my parents gave me the life they never had by telling me I could achieve anything, supporting me in anyway they could without molly coddling me, nurturing my ambition and making damn sure I understood the value of money.
IN fantasy land it would be nice to win the Lotto and sit on my arse all day, but I take immense satisification in the fact I'm where I am financially down to myself, and not down to who I've married, unlike a couple of girls I know.

TBH the fact the author didn't have the balls to put their name on the article speaks volumes.

Wibbs

pretty*monster wrote: »

Why doesn't she get a higher paying job if she wants more money then.

And that's cool and the gang, but practically how much extra will she have to earn to put her kids in daycare. How many extra hours will she work and end up never seeing her kids grow in front of her.

It's an absolutly disgusting attitude to have, thinking thaty because her family doesn't have as high a standard of living as she likes that it must be her husband's fault.

I agree it's a dubious take on it and I think it's a common reason why a lot of women lose respect for their husbands too as they feel their aspirational lives have been stymied by the choice of man they married. Then you get the guy moaning she's never satisfied and the woman moaning that he's useless. rinse and repeat. Lives of mutual misery. I've seen that one. More than once.

I blame the aspirational lifestyle movement itself, more than men or women. People really plug into it. You can see that with cars in this country. Car sales here really took off when the number plates that showed the year came in. Really took off and many in the trade will tell you it was women driving that up. "Going up the numbers" to show the neighbours that their overdraft was bigger than the joneses.

We're being fed bullshít and being told it's caviar. Beyond what we really need(and people have problems figuring that out), there's what we're told we need, not want. Usually well packaged in bullshizzle too. One lot will tell you that cars are bad for the environment and the same lot will convince you to buy their new electroturbonutter heap as it's good for the penguins, when the "old" car has coughed up most of it's pollution when it was built.

Throw in all rampant consumerism and no wonder people, men and women are struggling to build this lifestyle and why so many men and women are unhappy, even with their new toys.

Word to the wise, a merc won't make you happy, neither will a holiday home surrounded by the same neighbours in some transplanted suburban ghetto in what used to be the Costa Del Arse, that new patagonian knobwood kitchen designed by someone with an incomprehensible name won't either. Working like a galley slave while you miss your own life flying by to pay for it really won't. No man on his deathbed ever blurted as his last words, "I wish I had put in more overtime in accounts".

Having a loving, healthy family, with happy well balanced kids,that know they're truly loved will. The rest is window dressing on a very pricey wendy house.

And we wonder why primitive tribes and such like show much more happiness with their lot?

When lassies like the above quoted in the OP figure that out and when the men do the same, then we may end up happier and more content.

PS I'm neither a commie, nor a luddite. I'm well tired of isms of any hue. Nor am I harking back to the "good old days". They usually weren't and I'm not.

Quality

I dont know, I read that girls article and see where she is coming from. I dont care if I sound shallow or materialistic.

Money does buy happiness.

I love my family and my kids very much. I make the most of my time out of work with my kids.

I would love to be in a position to stay at home full time. But we like all young families, have bills to pay and mouths to feed. We could live off my husbands wage, but would not have holidays or two cars or money for luxury items ...

I will be grooming my daughter towards rich men when she is older. Definitely!!

ntlbell

just looks like one of them random fictional peices must of been a slow news day.

Wibbs

kmick wrote: »

Any man or women who chooses a partner solely due to wealth is a genetic throwback as far as Im concerned.

It's not solely, but it is just one of the factors that people will look for. It's not a genetic throwback either. It's there. Deep down or at the surface, but it's there. Just because it's nature doesn't make it wrong. If you're a guy you find some women more attractive than others, why? That would be due in a large part to your nature and how the woman may enhance and show off that nature. It's not the only thing that floats your boat of course. If she's a swivel eyed rabbit boiler, then you'll shout "Next!". Being a successful male is similar. It adds to the attraction.

If this is representative of Irish Women (and I certainly dont think it is) then equality as a concept is dead.

Equality as a concept is alive. Equality as a living entity is all too often sitting the corner looking ashen and hacking up a lung, which is why nature or nurture it makes sense for a woman who wants to raise a family to look for a richer guy.

Dragan

Quality wrote: »

Money does buy happiness.

I would disagree. Money can be a factor in happiness, just like everything else is. I'm not an idealist….i've had times in my life where rent was due and unpayable and I went a couple of days without eating at times. Money trouble can be the worst kind.

What strikes me most about the woman who wrote the article is that things moved on a bit around her and she decided she wanted a bit of it. She doesn't mention that bills need paying, or that her kids want for anything…she is basically describing her own jealousy that her friends appear to have it better than she does. Maybe she doesn't see the other issues her friends may have and see's only their advantage over her in her mind.

I know plenty of "well to do" folk, couples aged 30 to 40, with a kid or two and one or both parents work well payed jobs. Not all of them are happy, some of them have drink issues, some of them have affairs, some of them separate.

Money brings a degree of comfort I think, not happiness. And personally trading off the kids I am tucking into bed again all on my own and the fact that I might have a wife who brings in the dough but I rarely see would not be compensated for by the 5 bedroom house or the X5 in the drive way.

The important thing to do is decide what you need from a partner. For me, putting money on that list is no more shallow than anything else. Personally I wouldn't go out with a stupid person. This makes me shallow in my own way. However, I wouldn't get married to one and then start moaning about it.

Nevyn

Sounds like she needs to cope on, count her blessings and cut her cloth accordingly.

ntlbell

here's the original

http://women.timesonline.co.uk/tol/life_and_style/women/article4150061.ece

looks like someone was missing a deadline and just changed it for the irish market.....

irish indo....when star trek just isn't enough

Kinetic^

Quality wrote: »

I will be grooming my daughter towards rich men when she is older. Definitely!!

LOL, LOL and MORE FÙCKING LOL!! Hopefully she rebels and goes for someone she genuinely likes rather then someone she wants for their money.



I agree with Dragan, money provides comfort not happiness.


Also Dragan, no point in having 2 stupid people in the relationship now is there. *chuckles*

Dragan

Kinetic^ wrote: »

Also Dragan, no point in having 2 stupid people in the relationship now is there. *chuckles*

Thats exactly why i need a smart one!! Help drag me up the ladder of life.

fits

I was thinking it sounded very 'Timesish'. They have their little agendas they like to push, that being one of them.

That said...

A friend of mine married a very rich man when she was 24. She has two children already and I'd say they'll have ten. Only the very rich can afford to have lots of children and only the very rich can afford to have only one person working. I'm sure there are lots of women who would love to have big families and raise the children themselves. And really you have to be wealthy to be able to do that (IMO).

I dont think many women marry for money as such, but it certainly doesnt make a man less attractive. Its the same as beauty wont make a woman less attractive. Really.. it is exactly the same

But I agree, the woman in that article needs a good kick in the bum.

I was travelling recently and realised just how much cr4p we think is necessary for living here. Its ridiculous.

Quality

Dragan, thats ok when its just you, But what do you say to your kids if you cant afford to eat? Or if you cant afford to pay your mortgage?

Money can buy a better quality of life. My children cost me a fortune and that is not childcare I am talking about. I want them to experience things in life. Football lessons, Dance lessons, Cubs, Music lessons all cost money as does the equipment that is needed in order to partake in them.

If you have money you can provide more options in life for your children... You make the right options and that in return gives happiness.

Quality

Kinetic^ wrote: »

LOL, LOL and MORE FÙCKING LOL!! Hopefully she rebels and goes for someone she genuinely likes rather then someone she wants for their money.

Ah she knows it already, she is 9. I tell her to go for rich men, who drive BMW's and make sure they have a nice holiday home for their mother in law to go to...

sunnyside

I'm not too surprised, women are always comparing themselves to other people.

Zulu

This womans issue wasn't "putting bread on the table for her children", it was having a champers reception for her 40th!

Kinetic^

Quality wrote: »

Ah she knows it already, she is 9. I tell her to go for rich men, who drive BMW's and make sure they have a nice holiday home for their mother in law to go to...

Are you a troll? seriously!

Dragan

Quality wrote: »

Dragan, thats ok when its just you, But what do you say to your kids if you cant afford to eat? Or if you cant afford to pay your mortgage?

I would simply say that surely you can also ( as i am sure you do ) breed within your children the desire for their own success?

When i was growing up we didn't exactly have money falling out of our pockets. I went a couple of birthdays with no presents and never once questioned why. I knew my parents loved me, the broke their backs to give me every opportuinity that was possible.

This was much better for me that simply being able to have everything i would have thought i wanted.

Millions of people out there currently struggle to pay their bills....does this mean they are not happy? I have never seen anything but a smile on my parents face, from a reasonably young age i was aware of my parents financial situation ( i went out and got myself jobs and summer work to be able to support various hobbies rather than ask my parents for money they would not have and in my parents eyes this entitled me to an explanation as to why i had taken this "incredibly mature action" as they called it ) and both my parents worked hard to bring in the money they did.

They never questioned each other, or why the got married, or why the fell in love and still are. Personally, i think i am incredibly lucky to have the parents that i have, people who have shown me nothing but love and understanding.

I wouldn't trade my parents and the money troubles they had when i was kid for anyone.

What i see my parents doing now is enjoying their life.....they are going on holidays they never took before, buying cars they never bought before. They have expertly and excellently raised 4 kids who, by the majority of standards, have done decent things with their lives, have good values, and are decent people.

My parents made the decisions to be parents and to have the kids they had, they cut back for themselves as they needed to provide for those kids and they stretched themselves when they had to.

Now they are in a position where all the hard work has payed off, they played the game as they chose to play it the same as anyone else and i don't think either of them would have asked for anything to have been different for us.

I know their kids sure as hell wouldn't.

Hard times will come, no matter what your situation in life, and i would rather have gone a birthday or two with no present rather than looking at an empty chair at the table wondering where my father was.

Idbatterim

In fairness to that article I can see bigtime where that wife is coming from! Women when choosing a life partner see the husband as the provider, they should go for the best they can!

Wibbs

Best post in this thread so far from Dragan.

fits

Dragan wrote: »

I wouldn't trade my parents and the money troubles they had when i was kid for anyone.

But would you have spared them the worry of those tight years?

I'm from a family of six, and every one of us went to university (four before the free fees days). At one stage they had three at university at one time. I know for a fact that it was a real financial struggle for my parents to provide their children with that. It was really tough on them.

My parents made the decisions to be parents and to have the kids they had, they cut back for themselves as they needed to provide for those kids and they stretched themselves when they had to.

I agree that a lot of people dont get this concept these days.

Hard times will come, no matter what your situation in life, and i would rather have gone a birthday or two with no present rather than looking at an empty chair at the table wondering where my father was.

You cant blame people for wanting the best of both worlds though.

Quality

Well I married for love.... Met my other half 13 years ago, and am still mad about him..

I went for the bulge at the front instead of the bulge at the back.

My sisters married into money, they are stay at home mams, have the big houses and the nice cars, the fancy holidays etc.
My brother also has done very well for himself, His wife stays at home.

I am jealous, that my sisters and sis in law can stay at home with their kids and not have to compromise their lifestyle. I dont think I would be human if I wasn't. And I am not willing to lie and say that a significant cash injection wouldn't make my life a lot easier.

Now I am happy at the moment... Dont get me wrong, But If I had more money... I could be a whole lot happier...

Maybe I'm missing something but having read that twice, to me it sounds like the author's just moaning about not having as much cash as her friends.

To me it's not about the great gender divide, she's also whinging about a friend who inherited a house.

Simple materialism really.

So many parents go so wrong by believing they know what's best for kids.
Small children don't give a crap that they're going on far-flung holidays three times a year, or that they're delivered to school in a 08-reg car. They don't care that they're wearing designer clothes.
Their parents care.

We didn't have much growing up but I had a wonderful childhood. I think at some point in your life (usually after the death of a parent or close friend) you realise what's really important in life. And it sure isn't a spanking new car/house in the country/weekend in NY.

As my dad says, nobody ever lay on their deathbed and regretted not spending more time at the office.

Jules

Guys please keep it plesent.

Red Hand

Quality wrote: »

Well I married for love.... Met my other half 13 years ago, and am still mad about him..

I went for the bulge at the front instead of the bulge at the back.

My sisters married into money, they are stay at home mams, have the big houses and the nice cars, the fancy holidays etc.
My brother also has done very well for himself, His wife stays at home.

I am jealous, that my sisters and sis in law can stay at home with their kids and not have to compromise their lifestyle. I dont think I would be human if I wasn't. And I am not willing to lie and say that a significant cash injection wouldn't make my life a lot easier.

Now I am happy at the moment... Dont get me wrong, But If I had more money... I could be a whole lot happier...

Wants always expand to soak up any surplus income. Your brother and sisters might have just the very outlook as you..."if only we had a bit more, things would be easier..." but they may not express it.

We didn't have alot growing up, but I I was lucky in that my father worked from home and my mother was a housewife, and though it was a financial strain for both of them, I think it was important for me and my siblings to grow up like that. My father died during my childhood, so I was lucky that I had time with him, and didn't see his chair at the table filled for only an hour a day.

Reku

I think some of you are coming down a little hard on Quality, while it's true money doesn't buy happiness it can allow for hope whereas it's absence means desperation.
The person who lives in comfort can cling to the, albeit misguided, hope that "maybe if I had X I'd be happy", whereas those who can barely afford to pay the bills will suffer the stress and desperation of trying to do so. I look at myself and my siblings, I've saved up quite a lot simply because I know nothing on this earth will make me happy, they're rarely not in debt to someone because they keep buying things in the hope it will make them happy, who would you really rather be the one with hope or the one with wisdom?
As long as you don't let it be your guiding drive the aspiration to material gain can be a useful distraction from things which can otherwise get to you and drag you down, don't let it compromise your morals and even if you are only chasing rainbows and phantoms, if it keeps you from skipping along the edge of the cliff no harm in clinging to the child's view of the world.

Dragan

fits wrote: »

But would you have spared them the worry of those tight years?

Sadly there will always be worry. It just the nature of the game. Often times more money will bring it own set of problems and worries.

One thing i got from my parents is to never deal in "would have/should have/could have". Things are what they are, we make our choices around what we think will bring us happiness.

If your careful sometimes you'll be right.

I want to make it really clear that i was not attacking Quality in anyway, i'm just letting her know as a parent what i thought as a child and still think as an adult about my parents who may have thought the same thing at times.

fits

Dragan wrote: »

Sadly there will always be worry. It just the nature of the game. Often times more money will bring it own set of problems and worries.

I dunno, I sometimes think this 'we were poor but happy' thing is overly romanticised. I certainly think my own parents are happier now that they are comfortable than they were then, when they were struggling financially.

I also noticed that only men thanked your post. Interesting that.

ntlbell

fits wrote: »

I dunno, I sometimes think this 'we were poor but happy' thing is overly romanticised. I certainly think my own parents are happier now that they are comfortable than they were then, when they were struggling financially.

I also noticed that only men thanked your post. Interesting that.

Parent's(everyone) have worries regardless of how much money they have...

having more money may remove a few small number of worries e.g. paying bills etc, but after that they have the same worries as anyone else..

as Dragan has stated having more money just gives you a different set of problems.

your parents are at a completley different stage of life now and it may not be being financially secure that's caused it. (their current state of happiness)

Regardless of your situation it's how you deal with it that will determine your happiness.