Missing the foxes

clivej

Over the last 2 weeks out with my son we have seen about 12-16 foxes, hard to keep count. But I think they have all been lamped before and walk/run off when they see the lamp.
But over the weekend I bought an amber filter for the Lightforce 170 scope lamp €20, red filters out of stock. Out last night and shot 2 foxes. They just did not move away and we could call them in closer.
My son took both @130m -150m BUT again missed 1 @25m, I saw the bullet hit the ground under the fox. This happens a lot with him. Zeroed @100m should he be aiming higher at the nearer targets???????
HELP needed here, answers please.

thelurcher

Hi clivej - I'm not the best at explaining these things but it's to do with the height of sight line.

Best way to get an idea of it's effect is to have a look at -
Norma
and click on the relevant ballistic menu item.
Move the slider at the bottom after selecting your round.

clivej

thelurcher wrote: »

Hi clivej - I'm not the best at explaining these things but it's to do with the height of sight line.

Best way to get an idea of it's effect is to have a look at -
Norma
and click on the relevant ballistic menu item.
Move the slider at the bottom after selecting your round.

Lurcher thanks for that Norma link it explains a lot.

johngalway

Shoot some close in paper Clive, it's the only 100% way of finding out where that bullet is going. At real close in ranges your line of sight (scope) is higher than the bore of the rifle, where your bullet is starting out. My understanding is the bullet rises up passes through the line of sight then reaches it's highest point and starts dropping to where you have zeroed it.

My .223 is zeroed for 200 yards, it's roughly 0.9" high at 100 and -5.5 inches low at 300, but basically out to 230 or so yards I just aim where I want to hit and I have a +/- error of no more than 1 inch vertically (wind is a different issue). Really close in, as in point blank, I would aim slightly higher than normal due to the difference my line of sight and the rifles bore, but what that distance is exactly on my rifle and how quickly it changes I can't really tell you as I don't know, I've just always done it as above.

Where was he aiming on the fox? My guess would be either that he held under the fox, wrong thing to do, or the fox moved as he pulled the trigger. 25m is real close!

dwighet

Clive..... Use the pump action for the close ones...Its a father/ son team..Young lad with the long gun and old boy with the scatter gun..Perfect combo!!!.lol..

Actually i`ve seen you shoot with the scatter gun..Maybe your better off with the lamp....Only joking mate!!!!!

Any luck with those stingers i gave you?

Rovi

Folks, please report posts that appear contrary to the Charter, don't respond to them in the thread.
No-one (including the original 'anti' poster) has received an infraction in this case, but some of those responses were decidedly below the mature standards we'd normally expect from people who have been cleared as responsible and sensible enough to be issued a Firearm Certificate.

stevoman

sorry for hijacking lads but this thread seems appropriate for my story.

had plans last night but they fell through and it was about 7.30 in the evening. i was think about doing a bit of fishing but instead i opted to go out for a shot. I got myself fully camo'd up grapped by shotgun and my lockvogel caller and headed out for a fox (not my usual quarry of choice), but i like a challenge.

So i got to the back of the turkey farm where i know there where a few rabbits around so i know there must be a few foxes stirring. At 8.30 i sat into the ditch fully camo'd from head to toe including the gloves and turned on the rabbit distress caller for 30 seconds every three to four minutes. a few rabbits where out picking and a few woord pigeons where also picking off the grass so i was kept occupied watching these. two longs hours passed and my hopes of bringing in a fox to about 20 or 30 yards and smacking with a BB diminished, as i didnt even see a stir of one around. So at 10.30 i gave up and snuck back up to the car hoping charlie might be around somewhere but no sign. I packed up and loaded the gun into the car and made for my drive home. I wasnt 200 yards down the road and low and behold what was walking in the middle of the road only Mr fox. i couldnt beleive it, its always the way. All i could do was lauph, i beeped the horn to get him out of the way and went on home!! Such is the luck of hunting!

whitser

i love hearing that stevo. one more for the hounds:D:D.

stevoman

whitser wrote: »

i love hearing that stevo. one more for the hounds:D:D.

well im not greedy, i could went out after him , but the whole patience involved and the hardship in trying to pull in a fox into shotgun range is what i enjoyed in the hunt! the hounds will get him eventually!

whitser

sure you'll get another chance at him, he's probably dead wide to the caller. they dont take long to suss out gadgets and gizmos.

stevoman

whitser wrote: »

sure you'll get another chance at him, he's probably dead wide to the caller. they dont take long to suss out gadgets and gizmos.

he won that battle, i'l chance another area next week so i will!

whitser

i know you dont normally go after renard but i feel a fox-addiction coming on here. you'll be out all the time trying to out wit old charlie.
it happens believe me. you'll see foxes in your sleep.

stevoman

whitser wrote: »

i know you dont normally go after renard but i feel a fox-addiction coming on here. you'll be out all the time trying to out wit old charlie.
it happens believe me. you'll see foxes in your sleep.

you never know whitser, i have no interest in hunting them with rifles or anything. Im would like to get one with the shotgun though. plus a setter is not the best dog for hunting foxes with. its a pity i dont have a springer as they would add to a bit of craic whilst out on a hunt if the got on the trail of a fox id say.Im not really one for the lamp either. i prefer my shooting hunting done in natural light, although im not knocking anyone that lamps.

whitser

i've a springer and he loves to hunt foxy. if he sticks his head down a whole and wags his tail theres a fox home,no doubt.
as for setters, my mate has a beagle x setter that'll be starting work this year, the lad he bought him off keeps beagles,springers, hounds and setters for hunting fox. they're a gun pack.
give your setter chance he'll probably surprise you.
go out in the evening and walk around close to the hedge,keep quite, and sooner or later a fox will pop out in front of you.

bunny shooter

whitser wrote: »

.........go out in the evening and walk around close to the hedge,keep quite, and sooner or later a fox will pop out in front of you.

very true, got a good few this way with shottie and rifle

clivej

dwighet wrote: »

Clive..... Use the pump action for the close ones...Its a father/ son team..Young lad with the long gun and old boy with the scatter gun..Perfect combo!!!.lol..

Actually i`ve seen you shoot with the scatter gun..Maybe your better off with the lamp....Only joking mate!!!!!

Any luck with those stingers i gave you?

Thanks a lot Dwighet now everone knows, my only hope is to feed the foxes and get them much bigger ie pony sized.
Didn't try the stingers yet but planning to get to Midlands on Saturday fancy coming too? I'll txt you later.

I have to re-zero the scope as gun and scope fell off the chair and zero is way off.
I always like to re-zero the scope first to make sure the cross hairs are all at zero/centre first before I put the scope back on the gun and then zero the scope to target.

dwighet

clivej wrote: »

Thanks a lot Dwighet now everone knows, my only hope is to feed the foxes and get them much bigger ie pony sized.
Didn't try the stingers yet but planning to get to Midlands on Saturday fancy coming too? I'll txt you later.

I have to re-zero the scope as gun and scope fell off the chair and zero is way off.
I always like to re-zero the scope first to make sure the cross hairs are all at zero/centre first before I put the scope back on the gun and then zero the scope to target.

No worries mate....
The rifle range sounds like fun..

Trojan911

dwighet wrote: »

Clive..... Use the pump action for the close ones..

That's how we work it when I'm out with the buddy. Always have the shotgun on standby.

stevoman

Trojan911 wrote: »

That's how we work it when I'm out with the buddy. Always have the shotgun on standby.

does'nt work too well though when your shooting partner is greedy!

johngalway

Myself and John, the lad I go lamping with, also work the shotgun + rifle routine. You're prepared for most eventialities that way. Still think it's a need to know situation why foxes are getting missed close in with the rifle though I strongly suspect it was hold under.

meathstevie

I share your suspicion on that one John. I was out with a lad in Navan a couple of months ago and the same thing as Clive was talking about happened. The fox was maybe 15 yards away and when I fired it just jumped about 4 foot in the air and took of like it's tail was on fire. As far as I can see there's a couple of reasons for this happening :

- Your point of impact is going to be way below your point of aim as your
bullet is still a good bit below your line of sight

- You're shooting a relatively steep downward angle, shoulder hight to ground
level over give or take 15 yards

As you said, do a bit of paper shooting at 15-20 yards and see what happens, that should solve the problem. I'd say even 2 or 3 shots will tell you exactly what's going wrong.

IRLConor

meathstevie wrote: »

As you said, do a bit of paper shooting at 15-20 yards and see what happens, that should solve the problem. I'd say even 2 or 3 shots will tell you exactly what's going wrong.

clivej:
Make sure you have a good, absorbent, soft backstop when you're doing this. That's close enough to get some backsplash if you hit something hard at the wrong angle.

meathstevie

IRLConor wrote: »

clivej:
Make sure you have a good, absorbent, soft backstop when you're doing this. That's close enough to get some backsplash if you hit something hard at the wrong angle.

Indeed, soft backstop is essential for this job. Ideal would be a high bank in a bog. Lacking that sort of physical surroundings shovel a coal bag 3/4 full of earth and stick your target to it.

IRLConor

meathstevie wrote: »

Indeed, soft backstop is essential for this job. Ideal would be a high bank in a bog. Lacking that sort of physical surroundings shovel a coal bag 3/4 full of earth and stick your target to it.

That or a sand bag (loosely filled).

If you have to fire into a earthen bank, try and clear the target area of stones.

clivej

Thanks lads for all of your reply's.
I'm getting a good idea of what's happening and how to avoid that missed shot.
Also the son has gone from the cheap sh!te ammo, Remington FMJ (for zeroing) & Remington HP. Now he's using Hornaday V-Max 40gr, Federal V-Shok 50gr and Sako SP 50gr. Much better grouping with these bullets.

stevoman

clivej wrote: »

Thanks lads for all of your reply's.
I'm getting a good idea of what's happening and how to avoid that missed shot.
Also the son has gone from the cheap sh!te ammo, Remington FMJ (for zeroing) & Remington HP. Now he's using Hornaday V-Max 40gr, Federal V-Shok 50gr and Sako SP 50gr. Much better grouping with these bullets.

i find stick to the same bullets as different ones need different sight settings. thats with a .22 of course.

i was using stingers and i cant stand them.

johngalway

I'd stick to the one bullet as well, that being the most accurate you've tried. The more variables in your shooting the harder it is to figure out what's going wrong when something does go wrong.

spanielman

If its zeroed at 100m it still should hit the target at 125 metres??? especially when he killed 2 at further ranges, what cal are u shooting with?

clivej

spanielman wrote: »

If its zeroed at 100m it still should hit the target at 125 metres??? especially when he killed 2 at further ranges, what cal are u shooting with?

Started this thread over a year ago all sorted now.