Reporting on viewing statisctics

Loogie

(I don't know the correct terminology but none of the searches I made threw up the information I was looking for.)

I have three STBs from NTL(UPC), two of which are hooked up to Media Center. When I'm away for a couple of weeks Media Center controls the boxes (most of the time successfully - but sometime not) and records the shows I need.

So what I'm wondering is do NTL/UPC keep a log of what I'm watching - shows, channels, advertisments, etc? (Not literally what ad I'm watching but the time, date and channel being viewed)

I know Pace from years ago as manufacturers of modems and I saw in the STB settings that the STB (with a big Pace logo on the top of it) has a private IP address.

I would have assumed that this meant that when I pick a channel, my STB contacts the host/gateway/router/whatever and request a different video stream over a different port or something i.e. NTL/UPC could log all my viewing details.

However, earlier today I read somewhere else on the boards that the MPEG2 video for all channels is streamed out to the boxes one big push and the STBs extract and display only the stream for the channel that you choose. They also said that it was a one way and no information is fed back to NTL/UPC. Is that true? Seems unlikely but if it is, I'm impressed that they can squeeze so many channel over BNC/Co-ax...

Solair

The cable network streams all channels simultaneously, it's not like IPTV where the box requests each channel from a server. It's pretty much like a satellite decoder or a Digital Terrestrial TV decoder in that respect i.e. it just tunes in to a multiplex as passively as your television tunes into a broadcast channel.

However, the cable network is largely two way in areas that support broadband and telephone and the boxes are addressable and can I assume provide info back to the network. All of the new UPC boxes have a built in cable modem, so I assume if they want to 'poll the boxes' they can have them call home and possibly gather viewing data.

Sky possibly do this over the phone connection.

PBB

Can't help you on your original question, but you've prompted one for me.

Please feel free to point me towards a relevant string, but you suggest that you've got your Media Center IR repeater to work with an NTL Box ?

I've tried this to no avail, and understood it was because the NTL boxes use a unique IR frequency - I have one of the small Pace/NTL digiboxes (Silver coloured front)

If I can get this to work with Media center IR and Programme recorder I would be chuffed !

bk

PBB wrote: »

Can't help you on your original question, but you've prompted one for me.

Please feel free to point me towards a relevant string, but you suggest that you've got your Media Center IR repeater to work with an NTL Box ?

I've tried this to no avail, and understood it was because the NTL boxes use a unique IR frequency - I have one of the small Pace/NTL digiboxes (Silver coloured front)

If I can get this to work with Media center IR and Programme recorder I would be chuffed !

While I can't directly answer your question, Windows Media Center can learn the IR signal coming from any remote. You just switch the WMC to learning mode, point your remote at the WMC IR receiver and press each button, 0 to 9 a few times (following the instructions on screen).

I've gotten the Smart Vision IPTV STB's working with WMC using this method and in the past I got the NTL STB's working with a Tivo using a similar method.

Loogie

PBB wrote: »

Can't help you on your original question, but you've prompted one for me.

Please feel free to point me towards a relevant string, but you suggest that you've got your Media Center IR repeater to work with an NTL Box ?

I've tried this to no avail, and understood it was because the NTL boxes use a unique IR frequency - I have one of the small Pace/NTL digiboxes (Silver coloured front)

If I can get this to work with Media center IR and Programme recorder I would be chuffed !

The two STBs work for me 99% of the time with the Media Center IR relay thingy. The odd time the numbers (that Media Center relays to the STBs to change channels) don't quite make it in succession. So, instead of Switching from The Shoppping Channel on 305 over to record BBC1 on 102, the Pace box registers an attempt to reach channel 1 and then a second attempt for channel 02. In those situations (which are much more rare for me in the last 12 months than in the first 12 months of use, when it happened about twice a week) the channel is not succesfully changed and Media Center records two hours of sales blurb instead of Star Wars or whatever. Very, very frustrating.

(Does anyone know why this seems to happen more often when choosing channel numbers between 101 and 120?)

I setup the Pace STBs using the standard procedure via the wizard both in XP MCE and Vista Ultimate (which I upgraded to). The only quirk is that I always set the speed of the Media Center IR relay to Slow to minimise those failures of switching channels. You do this by telling the wizard (at the appropriate step) that it has failed to change the channel when using Fast IR or Medium IR (even if it does succeed!) - when those two speed are failed Media Center defaults to using the slowest IR channel changing speed.

You shouldn't have to specify that your STBs are Pace or anything else. When the wizards asks you to point the STB (NTL) remote at the Media Center IR receiver and Press 0 and Channel Up etc. it should detect the remote with no problems. This part of the setup has never given me a problem (and over the last three years I have set it up probably 7 or eight times due to various changes that I have made).

An extra Digital box costs €5 per month, I think. I'd highly recommend setting up two STBs with Media Center. It's much more practical.

In the long run, it would be best for UPC to offer a Media Center compatible, internalised digital cable reception option. This would circumvent the channel changing issues, proabbly improve the channel changing speed and possibly increase the quality of the recorded pictures.

I have to say I absolutely love Media Center. It's EPG is marvellous and so flexible. It makes the NTL EPG feel like a square wheel. It has made me the envy of my Sky+ pals, while the NTl EPG users... well, I pity them.

Loogie

PBB wrote: »

Can't help you on your original question, but you've prompted one for me.

Please feel free to point me towards a relevant string, but you suggest that you've got your Media Center IR repeater to work with an NTL Box ?

I've tried this to no avail, and understood it was because the NTL boxes use a unique IR frequency - I have one of the small Pace/NTL digiboxes (Silver coloured front)

If I can get this to work with Media center IR and Programme recorder I would be chuffed !

I just remembered, maybe you have an issue with where to place the IR transmitters on the NTL boxes. When looking at the face of the NTL boxes (they are not in front of me so this is from memory) I placed the transmitters about two inches from the left edge, half way from the top and bottom of the fascia panel. The sensor it tucked in there and if the transmitters are not placed correctly it can lead to unpredictable performance.

If you shine a torch on the fascia, you might be able to see the IR sensor in there.

Loogie

I am impressed that the entire signal is sent in one go - over BNC. Mad.

If NTL were collecting Nielsen style ratings, would they have to ask our permission? Might it be part of the terms of the customer contract?

Given what you say, Solair, NTL would have to get the box in my appartment to send the information back to them subsequent to my choosing a channel to watch.

I am curious, especially when you take into account the issue with collection of data from PC usage without consent and the backlash that has caused in the past.

I think it makes sense that NTL (UPC) would be able to provide very good statistics on viewing figures - highly valuable. However, it does mean that they would be recording stats on what my Media Center was watching, rather than what I was watching.

Solair

Well, it just surprises me that Sky in particular is so absolutely keen to have people connect their digibox to a phoneline. And why does the box phone home late at night? It's hardly just to say "hello uncle Rupert !!" It's not just about making sure that extra boxes are in the correct location either, they all phone home occasionally, often in the dead of night. If you check your eircom phone bill details you'll see 1-800 calls in the middle of the night if the box has been on.

If it were used for Sky or UPCs own internal use, I am not sure that it would be a breech of data protection. If they sold the information about specific users on, it could be.

They could be gathering the data annoymously i.e. just getting broad viewing numbers in regions for each channel rather than using it to target you with specific advertising.

However, I have no doubt that this is the way it will go

Incidently, I don't think the older NTL and Chorus digital boxes contain a modem, the new UPC ones all do both the DVR and the normal box. It's a standard high speed cable modem and it's used for net access if you get phone/broadband and also for interactive services.

abraxas01

Few things here:

• Sky's need for a telephone line is driven by 2 factors: simple security measure, and also needed for some of the services on the box.
• NTL/Chorus newer boxes do have a modem. However, don't think they have 2-way switched on on their network, hence absence of interactive services. This also means they can't collect channel usage data.
• As regards collection of viewing patterns, provided the data is aggregated (e.g. no unique info about an individual is passed on) there would be no data protection issue in the sharing or sale of that data.

Solair

Of course they have 2-way switched on, how do you think they provide telephony and broadband services?!

bk

Loogie wrote: »

I am impressed that the entire signal is sent in one go - over BNC. Mad.

Just to point out, almost all cable companies use high quality shielded co-axial cable, that can carry far more bandwidth then telephone cable, etc. Typically modern co-ax cable can carry over 500MHz of bandwidth.

To put that into context, just one 8MHz channel can give you one analogue TV channel, or 8 to 10 SD MPEG2 digital TV channel or 50mb of broadband. So there is plenty of capacity for hundreds of channels.

Also they use fibre on most of the network, it is usually only the "last mile" from your house to the local node that is Co-ax, from the local node it is all fibre.