Rack Build ...... not sure what I'm doing ... need help! lol

!_Brian_!

Right, so I'll be taking a trip into my local bank manager with the next month or two and will be asking him to give me about 5500 euro. With this money I want to by a rack system that will see me though. Problem is I dont know anything about them really excpet what I like the sound of so this is where ye come in. Will this work?


http://store.jimdunlop.com/product_info.php?cPath=22&products_id=28

into

http://www.thomann.de/ie/mesa_boogie_triaxis.htm

into

http://www.thomann.de/ie/tc_electronic_gmajor.htm

into

something to power it. This is were I become lost. Whats the difference between the likes of the Mesa Boogie 20/20 or 90/90 or the Simul 2-Ninety etc?

into

http://www.thomann.de/ie/mesa_boogie_rectifier_4x12_std_gitarrenbox.htm





Will the above set up work? Is it in the right order? Like when you use a wah pedal I put it first in the chain followed by distortion follow by modulation effects ... is the same true for rack set ups?

How do I control it all .... do I have to get a seperate rack unit that runs some kind of floor board or something?

Am i missing anythgin glaringly obvious or even something small? Obvioulsy the rack unit itself and I'll prolly throw in a tuner as well for good measure but aside from that?

Thanx for help in advance

sei046

Im getting all hot

Karl Hungus

!_Brian_! wrote: »

something to power it. This is were I become lost. Whats the difference between the likes of the Mesa Boogie 20/20 or 90/90 or the Simul 2-Ninety etc?

Big differences, they're different wattage, and different tubes, so they'll be voiced differently. As far as I know, the 2:90 was built to match the Triaxis, so that should be the one to get if you're going for the Triaxis.

You might want to consider getting one of these while you're at it, have a nice quiet rig.

!_Brian_!

The VHT Power Amp 2502 was recently brought to my attention as a subsitute to the Simul 2:90 etc. Anyone any remarks about this piece of kit?

Must look into the noise reduction system as well, completely slipped my mind!

And what about controlling it?

Karl Hungus

I can't really speak of power amps with any experience, I'm more of a head & cab kinda guy, but I've heard very good things about VHT poweramps, they're supposed to be some of the best out there.

As for controlling it, any midi controller would do the job. I currently use my Pod XT Live to control my Engl Invader via midi, very simple.

sei046

I know a lad selling a triaxis and a 2:90 if your looking for one. Great lad and keeps his gear well

Dord

You're mad, that is all.

darrenw5094

€2555 for a Triaxis.....$599 + p&p & tax for the Crybaby. €379 for the G-major

What....are you mad or loaded or both. The G-major rig has had nightmare reviews of freezing up during use.....maybe check that out before you buy.

Good second hand Mesa Mark IV from UK for £1300. Area 51 Wah for about €130. POD XT Live....man that's it for less than half the dough.....

sei046

I didnt want to say anything but its a little bit of a silly plan. The only reason you go for a rack is to get all the individual items you like. If you dont know what their like whats the point? I would save your cash and go a more sensible route

darrenw5094

€5500 is way too much man....there would be a more sensible/cheaper route.
Although the OP posted for help on this, so stick with the point i suppose.

sei046

Ah yea im all for keeping on topic but at the same time i think its no harm warning a lad about what he is getting into

darrenw5094

Me too.....he could go down the Epiphone...Marshall Mg route...:D
Or the €5500 route that he wants......f**kin' crazy.
Or maybe a good Mesa/Engl/Marshall/Soldano/Orange/H&K second hand amp would be the business.

You're right....something in between is the best i think too. Helping in this case might be giving him more less expensive options.

Voodu Child

The Triaxis is a very good rack preamp. Its basically got the preamp elements of the Mark I, IIC+, III and IV, and is highly programmable, so you can set up dozens of channels with different sounds, and footswitch them as needed.

2nd hand ones are mostly safe, its a reliable unit. Watch out for the display, the LED segments have a habit of going after 10 or so years. Personally, id buy the newest one possible, stay away from early 90s units.

You'll need a power amp, as Karl said, the 2:90 is an excellent mate for the triaxis. 2:90 means 2x90 watts, so you're talking extrememly powerful, and as with most rack poweramps, you'll need a stereo setup to use it fully.

The Mesa 20:20 is much smaller, lighter, and less powerful (still VERY loud). Its EL84 loaded, so doesnt have the massive bottom end of a 2:90. Usually guys go for them when they're after a very compact rack rig.

The G-major is a very good unit, it has pro-quality rack sounds at an affordable price. The G-System is better still, can be rackmounted, and has a swanky footcontroller. If I had your budget (:eek:) i'd be looking at one of those.

For cabs, the smallest solution is two 1x12 cabs. The Mesa Thiele 1x12s are awesome, cant recommend them highly enough. Obviously, the next step up is two 2x12 cabs, and then two 4x12s. Of course, there's stereo 2x12s and 4x12s available if thats what you're after.

Don't forget you'll need a rack case to house them all in, and of course cabling, and a midi footcontroller.

Personally, having gone down the rack route before, i'd have to agree with the lads above, a multi-channel amp is probably a much simpler solution.

!_Brian_!

I've tried out loads of amps and never found the tone I'm 100% happy with. I've tried several multi effects units and never been completely happy with the sound. This is the holy gail of tones for me, I've wanted a triaxis for so long and its come to the point the next big purchases in my life will be the mortgage, car and pension etc so if i dont get it now, I never will. And i dont accept the its too much to spend argument and I've always wanted to have rack so enough defending myself and moving on.


Have it narrowed down to definatly the Triaxis, the rack wah (just listen to Micheal Ammots lead tones and you'll understand), the G Major and pretty much defiantly the VHT Power Amp 2502.

For the floor controller, do I need another rack type thing or what? How's that set up. This is the biggest stumbling block at the mo that I cant quite get my head around. And after that, is that everything I need to have the rig up and running?

Voodu Child

You need a midi floorboard, such as the Behringer FCB 1010, or Voodoo Lab Ground Control Pro. And a couple of midi cables.

When you want to switch to 'Patch 5' or whatever, the midi footswitch just sends that message to the preamp, and the effects unit, and anything else that's connected. Some of the midi pedals can do more complicated things like controlling the parameters (delay length, gain etc) using rocker pedals.

!_Brian_!

So if I was to use the Behringer for example, I could set up the Triaxis to such and such a tone and the G Major to such and such a delay or chorus or whatever and then store that selection in the Behringer? Like a multi effects pedal kinda thing?

Does the floor midi controller need to go into a rack unit of its own and then onto whatever else is there? Or is it all done fro the piece of equipment on the floor? I keep seeing the Voodoo Labs Ground Control matched with the GCX Guitar Audio Switcher like and its confusing me! lol

darrenw5094

Check this out on ebay - item number 140245227130
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=140245227130&ssPageName=ADME:B:SS:US:1123

Karl Hungus

!_Brian_! wrote: »

Does the floor midi controller need to go into a rack unit of its own and then onto whatever else is there? Or is it all done fro the piece of equipment on the floor? I keep seeing the Voodoo Labs Ground Control matched with the GCX Guitar Audio Switcher like and its confusing me! lol

It depends on whether or not the piece of equipment you want to control has midi functions or not. For the Triaxis and the G Major, you won't need an extra rack unit to control them, as they're both midi.

You'd only need a seperate rack unit if you wanted to control something via midi that doesn't already have a midi feature. For example, you could use the GCX Switcher to switch in and out various analogue pedals, or relays that control your amps footswitchable functions.

!_Brian_!

darrenw5094 wrote: »

Check this out on ebay - item number 140245227130
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=140245227130&ssPageName=ADME:B:SS:US:1123

Dang that would be ideal. less than 1000 euro! Have no money for another month or two minium tho






Cool, i think I've got my head around most of it now. The only thing I'm really torn between now really is weather to go for the 2:90 or the VHT 2052.

Karl Hungus

!_Brian_! wrote: »

Dang that would be ideal. less than 1000 euro! Have no money for another month or two minium tho

Don't worry about it, that's not exactly a once in a lifetime deal right there, the fact is Mesa gear has a very high mark up in europe, so you'll usually find something at far less the cost used from the US. Thomann aren't particulary great on Mesa prices either, you can get a better price here, which is still a European site.

Voodu Child

Karl Hungus wrote: »

Don't worry about it, that's not exactly a once in a lifetime deal right there

Yep, nothing special about that price. Doubly so for a V2.0, without any indication of age, crappy description, and useless pics.

I certainly wouldn't lose any sleep over not being able to buy that one. There's always going to be more on ebay, at better prices and in better condition. Patience is usually the smartest thing when it comes to buying used gear.

!_Brian_!

Didnt think to try Guitarbargains but last time i bought off them, I spent 1500 on a guitar and it took 4 MONTHS to arrive so i wouldnt be too keen to use them again. In syaing that tho, the best price I've found for the Triaxis in Europe is from playback-europe.com at €2227 so not much higher than Guitarbargains.

Anyway, once I sort out exactly what i want I have another month or 2 to change my mind and check out a the best deals



:EDIT: Also, whats the latest version of the Triaxis?

Voodu Child

The most recent version is usually called 2.1

Original V1.0 goes up to SN 1700 roughly.

V2.0 added midi continuous control capability, and altered one channel to make it similar to a Rectifier.... V2.0 goes up to SN 5200 roughly.

V2.1 was just a minor revision, to improve the rectifier channel. Also known as 'Phat mod' version.

The important thing to take away from that is that you can get a rough idea of how old the model is. For example, you'd be mad to pay high money for a V1.0, as it could be as much as 18 years old.

!_Brian_!

Thanks for the info man, I'll defo bare that in mind. Do you know anything about the power amps?

The 2:90 is designed to go with the Triaxis so i'm told but I read a review on Harmoney Central and some guy said he upgraded from a 50/50 to a 2:90 with his Triaxis and it sound so much better. But then he changed his 2:90 for the VHT 2502 and he said it made the others sound like they were broken!

But then i have another guy advising to go with the 2:90 as they were designed to go with each other espically if I cant try em out first.

Actually is tehre anywhere in Dublin that stocks a lot of rack gear that I could go in a try a Triaxis yolked up to a 2:90 and a VHT 2502? I know their defo isnt in Waterford anyway!

Voodu Child

The reason the 2:90 is a good match for the Triaxis is that
a) They were designed around each other (ie the Triaxis was designed around a 6L6 poweramp, and
b) The Triaxis can actually interract with the 2:90 via an extra cable, which changes how the 2:90 is running depending on the Triaxis settings.

But VHT make extrememly high-end and well regarded poewramps. Its more likely to be running EL34s, so its going to sound significantly different to the 6L6 Mesa (although both can run different tubes if needed). At the end of the day, 'better' is a subjective term. Different can mean better or worse, depending on the listener. Just get as many opinions as possible and go with your gut. You're not getting a 'bad' poweramp either way.

Theres nowhere in Dublin that stocks VHT, and Mesa dealers are thin on the ground. MusicianInc stock Mesa, but i don't think i've ever seen a Triaxis in there.

!_Brian_!

I found a load of clips on Youtube with the Triaxis and 2:90 and they sound the business, cant find any clips with Triaxis and the VHT tho. But the reviews and opinions I'm reading seam to be leaning towards the VHT, the EL34's tighten up the bottom end appearently ... aggarh .... I'm sooo torn! The rig will cost 500 quid less with the VHT also but I don't want money to be a deciding factor (to an extent).

Fook it, it will be another month or two minimum before its crunch time (No pun intended! haha, I didn't actually cop that until after I wrote the rest of this line! lol) so I have plenty of time to change my mind back and forth!

Eoin Madsen

!_Brian_! wrote: »

But the reviews and opinions I'm reading seam to be leaning towards the VHT, the EL34's tighten up the bottom end appearently ...

Ah, no, not really. Something like KT66s or 6550s would have a clearer/tighter bottom end. EL34s are really not known for that characteristic at all, and certainly not compared to a 6L6. The 6L6 has a more linear characteristic than an EL34 - the EL34 tending to be associated with a "British" sound with a midrange peak. The differences are generally more subtle than people imply. Variations in the circuit of the amp and the characteristics of its output transformer will make as much (if not more) of a difference as the valve type used, so don't put too much stock into any one design feature.

The 2x90 will make it difficult to saturate the powerstage at a useable volume. Which might be irrelevent. But I'd be inclined towards a more manageable power output (no more than 50 watts total, if even) in order to give me more options in terms of gain structure. Whatever you choose, make sure it's because of the sound of the amp and not the volume of it. The actual loudness is not that important in most practical situations, and too much headroom can be as much a hinderance as too little.

!_Brian_!

Thanks for the info ..... the volume of the amp dosnt bother me that much, its the one that will sound the best that I'm after.

Eoin Madsen

Verbal descriptions of the sound of amps can be extremely vague and misleading so I'd try and hear and play anything (first hand) before considering it. I guess one of the the upsides of the rack system is that you can change the various components as you go along to get closer to what you want anyway.