Car/Garage woes

Lizzykins

I posted here about 6 weeks ago about how much I was charged for fixing my 2000 Focus which was losing oil big time into the engine. To cut a long story short the garage-not a main dealer-said it was a faulty valve in the engine and replaced valves,head gasket etc etc. This cost me 2k whch I felt was crazy money to spend on an 8 year old car. Problem is now 6 weeks later the problem is still there. The oil light flashed on and off and on checking the oil levels there was none in it!! So it probably was not a valve and more likely was piston rings as someone here did say at the time. What comeback do I have with the garage? The car is not right and I'll be damned if I spend another cent on it. Can I ask for the car to be put right without more cost to me? Just interested to hear what anyone might think.

Ger the man

Did you get a warranty? That normally covers the engine and gearbox.

Run_to_da_hills

Unless there was blue smoke coming from the exhaust I would doubt it was the valves to begin with. You can also loose oil through worn piston rings, a leak where the oil filter screws in place (Or badly fitted oil filter) on or a hole / crack in the sump or an oil seal gone between the engine and clutch (gear box). Sounds like you were done in the first instance. There is something to be said for going to a main dealer first to get an opinion.

BostonB

I'd bring it back to the garage to finish the job they said they'd done.

G-Money

I'm pretty sure you can take this back to the place and tell them they obviously didn't fix it as the problem is still occuring/re-occuring. If they are dodgy, they might try and charge you more money but I'd be surprised if they could get away with that.

If they are decent, they should fix it for free this time. I'd reckon there is some sort of law to protect you here regarding getting repairs done that don't work. I don't think they can charge you more money to fix the same problem you originally paid them to fix.

I guess the problem might be if it turns out more parts or something are required than was expected. But even so, if it's the exact same problem that you paid them to fix, they should do the work for free this time as they didn't do it right the first time.

Also, if I were you I'd maybe contact the main dealership and get a quote off them to see how much it will cost to fix.

That's just my two cents worth anyway.

Henry Ford III

Madness. You could have bought a replacement engine for a lot less.

Take it back to the garage.

-Chris-

I'd bring it to the ombudsman as well. I'd be of the opinion that you should be due a partial refund on the work, as well as getting it repaired for free.

You've paid €2,000 for work that wasn't needed - a misdiagnosis!

cashmni1

I agree with Audi Chris, for sure they misdiagnosed the problem and you paid 2 grand for their Fu*k up.
€2000 of your money, I would go mental. They ripped you off. Bring the car straight back to them and the car is not leaving until the problem is fixed. No grey area. Just get them to finish what they charged you €2000 for. End of.

Mr.Diagnostic

I think it is very difficult to reply to this question in any kind of an accurate manner. Nobody here is in a position to know what is actually wrong with the car or what dealings the OP had with the garage.

If the engine is burning oil due to wear then it is likely the top end needed to be done, which seems to be what was done. If the bottom end also needs to be done then the garage should probably have known this. To be fair, if the bottom end is to be done now the OP would owe for the extra labour and parts to do it but not for the labour to strip and rebuild the top end again. (The top end needs to be removed to do the bottom end).
Another avenue that should be explored would be to price an engine from Ford. It may work out cheaper and if so the amount paid already should be deducted from that cost.

Contrary to what was posted you would not get a replacement engine supplied and fitted for less than 2k, unless it was a second hand unit. I don’t think there is much point in buying a used unit that could well have the same issues as the unit it replaced.

I don’t see any logic in the suggestion that the OP should get a partial refund as well as the engine fixed. The OP owns the car, along with its problems, so there is no reason the garage should pay to fix it. The garage should of course ensure the car is fixed in as economic manner as possible and be responsible for any failing on their part. I imagine if the OP approached the garage and suggested a partial refund as well as the car fixed then relations would degrade rapidly.

Garages, like all other business are good and bad. There is no point in pre-judging this particular garage and advising the OP to take an adversarial stance.

I think it is a bit early to suggest the OP was ripped off. Would it not make more sense to wait and see how the garage deals with the situation.

OP, get a second opinion on what is wrong with the car then go back and deal with the garage.

Henry Ford III

Very good post as always Mr. Diagnostic, but my point was you could get a sound lower mileage used engine fitted for a lot less than €2k.

captainosull

Mr.Diagnostic wrote: »

I think it is very difficult to reply to this question in any kind of an accurate manner. Nobody here is in a position to know what is actually wrong with the car or what dealings the OP had with the garage.

If the engine is burning oil due to wear then it is likely the top end needed to be done, which seems to be what was done. If the bottom end also needs to be done then the garage should probably have known this. To be fair, if the bottom end is to be done now the OP would owe for the extra labour and parts to do it but not for the labour to strip and rebuild the top end again. (The top end needs to be removed to do the bottom end).
Another avenue that should be explored would be to price an engine from Ford. It may work out cheaper and if so the amount paid already should be deducted from that cost.

Contrary to what was posted you would not get a replacement engine supplied and fitted for less than 2k, unless it was a second hand unit. I don’t think there is much point in buying a used unit that could well have the same issues as the unit it replaced.

I don’t see any logic in the suggestion that the OP should get a partial refund as well as the engine fixed. The OP owns the car, along with its problems, so there is no reason the garage should pay to fix it. The garage should of course ensure the car is fixed in as economic manner as possible and be responsible for any failing on their part. I imagine if the OP approached the garage and suggested a partial refund as well as the car fixed then relations would degrade rapidly.

Garages, like all other business are good and bad. There is no point in pre-judging this particular garage and advising the OP to take an adversarial stance.

I think it is a bit early to suggest the OP was ripped off. Would it not make more sense to wait and see how the garage deals with the situation.

OP, get a second opinion on what is wrong with the car then go back and deal with the garage.

Great post/advice - but your presuming common sense/maturity exists in the boards motors forum...

Lizzykins

Thanks for all the replies. I take on board what ye all have said. I phoned the garage this morning and got voicemail-they only work a half day Saturday. I left a message outlining the problem and asking them to phone back to see what could be done to resolve the matter. As yet no call back.
My issue with them is that they failed to diagnose the problem and fix it. I was given a bill for 2200 which included 1100 labour. What I want is the car fixed without more cost to me labour wise. Fair enough if there are piston rings or other parts to be fitted. I'll be damned if I pay all over again for labour.

Mr.Diagnostic

captainosull wrote: »

Great post/advice - but your presuming common sense/maturity exists in the boards motors forum...

No I'm not

Mr.Diagnostic

Lizzykins wrote: »

Thanks for all the replies. I take on board what ye all have said. I phoned the garage this morning and got voicemail-they only work a half day Saturday. I left a message outlining the problem and asking them to phone back to see what could be done to resolve the matter. As yet no call back.
My issue with them is that they failed to diagnose the problem and fix it. I was given a bill for 2200 which included 1100 labour. What I want is the car fixed without more cost to me labour wise. Fair enough if there are piston rings or other parts to be fitted. I'll be damned if I pay all over again for labour.

As a matter of interest, if it turns out to need rings and you have not paid the labour for rings to be fitted yet them why should you not pay that additional labour?
Naturally, you should not be asked to pay for anything you have already paid for to be repeated.

-Chris-

Mr.Diagnostic wrote: »

I don’t see any logic in the suggestion that the OP should get a partial refund as well as the engine fixed. The OP owns the car, along with its problems, so there is no reason the garage should pay to fix it. The garage should of course ensure the car is fixed in as economic manner as possible and be responsible for any failing on their part. I imagine if the OP approached the garage and suggested a partial refund as well as the car fixed then relations would degrade rapidly.

A better way of saying what I meant. Good post.

I think the OP should not have to pay for the labour of the repairs done so far. Paying for the parts is debatable as, if you refuse to pay for them the garage may insist on removing them, but theoretically you shouldn't have to pay for them either, as you didn't actually need them...

Any further repairs you have done to remedy the car should be chargeable, but when deciding on the pricing the dealer should be aware of the inconvenience caused so far and the fact that you've sunk money into the car unnecessarily.

Of course, don't go in all guns blazing either, but do make sure you're advised on your consumer rights before you get into discussions with them - know what you're allowed to ask for and what's not possible.

Esel

OP - what exactly was done for €2,200? Were all the valves replaced etc? What other parts? Did you get all the old parts (in the boxes from the new parts) from the garage (to prove they were replaced)?

Mr.Diagnostic

AudiChris wrote: »

I think the OP should not have to pay for the labour of the repairs done so far. Paying for the parts is debatable as, if you refuse to pay for them the garage may insist on removing them, but theoretically you shouldn't have to pay for them either, as you didn't actually need them...

Any further repairs you have done to remedy the car should be chargeable, but when deciding on the pricing the dealer should be aware of the inconvenience caused so far and the fact that you've sunk money into the car unnecessarily.

But thats the point, who says the work done was not required? Who here can possibly know.
In general if the bottom of an engine is worn then the top is likely to be too. It would be remiss of any mechanic not to suggest a top end overhaul while the bottom end was being done.

-Chris-

Accepted. You could only ask for compensation/rework to be done if the work was actually unnecessary.

Lizzykins

Quick update. You won't believe this! Hubby brought car to mechanic who said he'd have a look at it. Rang this evening and says he wants us to take it back for a few weeks so that he can check how much oil it's losing!!!!!! What in the name of God is he at. Hubby says it's a time wasting exercise. I'm really upset at being messed around like this. Needless to say on no account am I taking the car back in the state it's in. The guy obviously doesn't want to do the job.

BostonB

I'm not a mechanic, but perhaps its usual for an engine, after its been rebuilt to use a bit of oil.

Lizzykins

4 litres or whatever it holds? I don't think so. There wasn't a drop in it on Friday which was 6 weeks after original repair. I've looked up some consumer websites and I do have a case. Small claims court will be the next step if I don't get any satisfaction this week. I paid 2k for the repairs and 2k is the max limit with small claims. Cheaper than a solicitor.

BostonB

If there wasn't a drop in it, there would have been a loud bang and it would have seized the engine. Did it take 4 litres to top it up? I think you need to get a 2nd opinion from qualified person/garage that will stand over their report.

Lizzykins

Well people here is the latest. Car was left with mechanic for the last two weeks and we got a call today to say the car is ready. On our way to pick it up at 4pm when we get another call. Sorry car is not ready as there is another problem with it!!!! Seemingly when it was being brought for a test drive it wouldn't start and the mechanic says it's the fuel pump!!!

Of course it's "difficult" to get to,to fix-no surprise there. We have no option except to get him to fix it. I saw it in the garage and it was not starting. Oh and by the way he did the clutch for us too. He said originally 8 weeks ago that the clutch was on the way out and when we gave it back to him with the oil problem he said the same thing. So hubby said do the blasted thing.

At this stage I'm completely at a loss. Is he taking us for fools or are all these problems genuine. How can anyone tell? And as for asking to see the original parts he could give us any clutch from any car or any fuel pump so that's no proof. I'll be paying for the cluch and fuel pump but not the piston rings which he should have done 8 weeks ago. I asked him how much would the bill be and he said he had no idea. I didn't push him on it. How much should I pay for clutch and fuel pump?

BostonB

At the risk of repeating myself...

BostonB wrote: »

...I think you need to get a 2nd opinion from qualified person/garage that will stand over their report.

Its a lot of money to spend on a 8yr old car...