Synth gurus - Recreating classic moogy sounds?

condra

I was wondering if anyone has any tips for recreating classic analog (especially moogy) sounds.

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Heres what I've figured out so far:

One of the best waveforms to use for moogy sounds is a Pulse with PWM, modulated by an LFO. Actually, when I discovered that it was a total revelation because for some reason, I had presumed that most of the classic old analog sounds were based on detuned saw waves.

Adding some noise can really help with bass sounds, where the filter has a very quick attack and decay.

Making something monophonic (+ portamento) can help with the sense of, um, moogyness.

24db LP filter is usually the one to go for.

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Any more tips? Im not sure if the PWM is better modulated by an envelope or by an LFO, and when modulated by an LFO, what speed works best.

I'm getting a lot of moogy sounds nailed, but finding it hard to get that real presence, such as you hear in some of the presets in the Arturia stuff. Maybe a little chorus, compression and distortion?

Also wondering about velocity. I'm used to using velocity on amp aswell as the filter, to make a patch expressive for playing, but perhaps the old (not modular) analogs were less expressive?

Thanks for any tips.

seannash

are you using an actual moog emanulation like the minimoog or minimonsta.
i guess just load up a patch from them and look at how its made

cornbb

What plugin(s) or synths are you using to make all these sounds incidentally? Recreating Moog-like patches from scratch with a non-Arturia/Moog endorsed product sounds like a pretty cool learning experience.

condra

Hey Sean!

Any craic with you?

Looking at Minimonsta would be kinda cheating. :P I'm basically trying to figure out how to get these sounds with the simplest controls. PWM and monophony definitely seems to be money.

By the way man, that stuff over at ALDJ had nothing to do with me, as you probably can guess. Please keep a cool head because the other mods are pretty uptight at the moment!

cornbb wrote: »

What plugin(s) or synths are you using to make all these sounds incidentally?

I'm using my Nord Rack and my K-Station (same as V-Station software) but I'm guessing most modern VAs like Alpha, Subtractor etc, would be able to do it, afterall, part of the key seems to be NOT using snazzy things like FM, wavetables etc.

cornbb wrote: »

Recreating Moog-like patches from scratch with a non-Arturia/Moog endorsed product sounds like a pretty cool learning experience.

It might sound silly to hardcore synth heads, but Im super psyched about PWM right now. I had heard of it before but not bothered looking further into it. Now that I understand it, it just makes programming subtractive synths so much more rewarding.

At the same time, nothing really does it quite as well as monsta/moog v. They're just awesome.

seannash

no problem man,it was all blown way out of proportion.still,im glad i said my piece.apparently it was a long time coming ha ha

jtsuited

As far as I can remember (I attempted to make a csound moog once), the filters in moogs (the minimoog and modular anyway) were very distinctive sounding and had very strange irregularities when it came to their behaviour - listen to a self oscillating moog filter and you'll hear what i mean.

The oscillator sections in moogs is also quite difficult (so difficult that Arturia came up with a whole new system of creating digital software oscillators to emulate them) to recreate, as they've got a very distinctive body to them.

Both these mathematical (sort of) inconsistencies in moogs gave them a very musical and wide sound (very very fat) and hence the reason most software synths sound a lot weedier than moogs.

In saying that, the arturia stuff is mindblowingly good and an accurate replication, and I am the proud owner of the moog modular V which really is difficult to make an ugly sound with.

As regards Pulse Width Modulation, a lot of the early moog sounds were characterised by a sawtooth lfo (with a rate of between 15-20hz) modulating the pwm (edit: the pw not the pwm) of the oscillator drivers (not just the oscillators themselves). You'll see what I mean if you try it.

sei046

I have ABSOLUTELY NO IDEA about any of this, so interesting read!

condra

jtsuited wrote:

a lot of the early moog sounds were characterised by a sawtooth lfo modulating the pwm of the oscillator drivers (not just the oscillators themselves). You'll see what I mean if you try it.

I dont really follow. PWM stands for pulse width modulation, so what else is there to modulate?

When you say the oscillator drivers do you mean the power to the oscillators on the old moogs?

jtsuited

womoma wrote: »

I dont really follow. PWM stands for pulse width modulation, so what else is there to modulate?

When you say the oscillator drivers do you mean the power to the oscillators on the old moogs?

sorry my bad. modulate the pulse width obviously.

Like in the moog modular v, in the driver section (which drives the 3 oscillators beside it) there is a pwm input. Shtick a fast enough LFO into that, give it a medium depth and you get this strange vibrato thing. Really good for pad sounds etc.

In synths that don't have an actual driver section, you can achieve the same results by modulating each oscillator (that you're using) with the same source. Gives the same result.

Seziertisch

As a boy I wept in butcher's shops (and also lived in Germany)

http://www.amazon.de/Programming-Synthesizers-Incl-CD-ROM-Windows/dp/3934903487/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=books-intl-de&qid=1214686257&sr=8-1

This is the English version, which for some reason isn't available from UK Amazon. It comes with its own standalone soft synth which has since been replaces by the Native Instruments Sound School.

Very thorough, completely hands on and the shiznit for aspiring sound designers.

studiorat

Looks like a useful book. I'll be putting that on the reading list for the college this year!