Opinion needed

flyingdagger

This may seem like a bit of a strange one.I moved into a house about 8 months ago.Over these 8 months theres been about 3 occassions where i wake up (you know when you're half awake,half asleep?) and have this really strong sense that there's something in my bedroom.It's not a nice feeling and if i'm honest i've had this overwhelming feeling of terror to the point where when it happened again last night,i tried to reassure myself that i was ok and try to go back to sleep.There doesn't seem to be a pattern/warning before it happens.

I've not experienced anything like this before and can't see any reason for these incidents(ie not suffering from stress/worries ,eating cheese before bed etc:p.The 2nd time it happened i burnt sage in the house to clear it but it doesn't seem to have made any difference.Has anyone any idea why this may be happening/opinion as to whether it's real?Sorry but i was so freaked when i finally woke up this morning.

Noopti

Sleep paralysis?

flyingdagger

I thought that the 1st time it happened but i've always been able to move.I rolled over and pulled the duvet over my head last night whilst telling myself not to be silly and not to be scared

Noopti

I would still say it is down to some form of sleep paralysis (maybe without the paralysis part), or lucid dreaming.

It just seems very conclusive to me due to what you said:

theres been about 3 occassions where i wake up (you know when you're half awake,half asleep?)

You said it yourself, your brain is still half asleep! I doubt a ghost would limit itself to haunting you to a very specific time such as this.
It is simply part of your brain being in a semi dreamlike state, and another, awake part, interpreting this.

hiorta

This is precisely the mental state best attuned to receive spirit communication.
As you have tried to 'remove' and rationalise the sensation, it seems very likely that this is the final condition of the spirit person.

Mentally offer to help her (I feel - please ask her) by asking of your Higher Power to bring whatever assistance may be needed to give impetus to her attempts to 'move on'.
Give thanks for the opportunity to be of service.

Don't be afraid.

???

I'd say it is just a carry on of emotion from a dream. It's happened to me more than once where I've been having a dream and just as something big and emotional and horrifying has happened I've woken or been woken up. When this has happened i've often felt a bit nervous or whatever all day.

So hiorta, when you are most likely to imagine things, you are most likely to make contact with 'spirits' for which there is no evidence or reason to believe them anything other than imaginary. Surely it's more likely that they are imaginary then?

lilRedSmurf

Try a nice piece of selenite. Get a piece that you are drwn to and that feels nice. Selenite can be cleansed with sage smoke because it'll dissolve if you put it in water. Selenite is often used to trap nasty things that can be floating about and brings a sense of calm and safety to wherever it is.

Like hiorta said, dont be scared. Its nothing to fear. Most of the fright comes from realising that there's more out there then we think. You can try a epsom salt bath to calm your nerves.

Just remember that this isnt a bad thing. Sure its a little freaky at first but just trust the fact that you are in a safe space and that you're never sent more then you can handle. If you do feel unsafe or wary of something just tell it to go away. Say it with intention though, if you're more caught up in figuring out what it is then getting rid of it, it wont leave. Get mad if you have to but trust me if you verbalise an intention these's a lot of power in that and "they" will listen.

hiorta

"So hiorta, when you are most likely to imagine things, you are most likely to make contact with 'spirits' for which there is no evidence or reason to believe them anything other than imaginary. Surely it's more likely that they are imaginary then?" partial post by ???

****************
Your point about the original poster's experience being imaginary is entirely possible, of course. The poster will clearly know whether or not it is so.

Imagination itself, is not confined to particular times and the ability to imagine must vary greatly from individual to individual.

Contact with spirit is a wee bit different though. Spirit is contacted by thought, pure and simple, but the response, if any, is solid and real, proven by individuals unknown to you, recognising the names, descriptions, events, ages and causes of passing, relationships, etc. being brought forward.
Even better evidence is in the giving of a resume of events known to the spirit person that have occured since they passed.

Spirit contact cannot ever be taken for granted or commanded. We can only invite and request in a humble and respectful way.

Spirit folk are only folk who have 'died' to this sphere of Life. They live on in a finer vibration, retaining all the faculties of soul - memory of who they were, what they did, who and what they knew, what they regret, what they may have believed, etc. They are no more imaginary now than they were then.

The central point is that we are spiritual beings with bodies and not bodies with spirits. The spiritual us - the real us - is eternal. Whether you consider this to be good or bad news is your privilege. It will all unfold in time.

The boundless universe can accommodate all.

johnsix

hiorta wrote: »

****************
Your point about the original poster's experience being imaginary is entirely possible, of course. The poster will clearly know whether or not it is so.

Imagination itself, is not confined to particular times and the ability to imagine must vary greatly from individual to individual.

Contact with spirit is a wee bit different though. Spirit is contacted by thought, pure and simple, but the response, if any, is solid and real, proven by individuals unknown to you, recognising the names, descriptions, events, ages and causes of passing, relationships, etc. being brought forward.
Even better evidence is in the giving of a resume of events known to the spirit person that have occured since they passed.

Spirit contact cannot ever be taken for granted or commanded. We can only invite and request in a humble and respectful way.

Spirit folk are only folk who have 'died' to this sphere of Life. They live on in a finer vibration, retaining all the faculties of soul - memory of who they were, what they did, who and what they knew, what they regret, what they may have believed, etc. They are no more imaginary now than they were then.

The central point is that we are spiritual beings with bodies and not bodies with spirits. The spiritual us - the real us - is eternal. Whether you consider this to be good or bad news is your privilege. It will all unfold in time.

The boundless universe can accommodate all.

And your basis for all these beliefs is what exactly?

Also the universe isn't boundless.
Its about 13.73 billion years old and about 93 billion lightyears across and operates within a few little rules we can physics.

???

Right... I dunno where to atart on that! At least Christianity is based on the best selling fiction work of all time!

hiorta

Hi John. your quote:
"Also the universe isn't boundless.
Its about 13.73 billion years old and about 93 billion lightyears across and operates within a few little rules we can physics."

That is indeed held to be true by many, although quantum physics and eastern mysticism seem to have gone beyond that point. It is beyond my comprehension, anyway.

However, the point you make refers only to the physical aspects of universe.

???

Sorry what? Quantum mechanics a) breaks the laws of physics and b) is in someway similar to eastern mysticism?

Quantum Pgysics is part of... wait for it... PHYSICS!!! Yes that's right, it's fully part of modern science and amazingly, it obeys the laws of the universe!!!

And what does quantum physics have to do with mysticism? Mysticism isn't science.

And 'held by many to be true'? It is bleeding true!!! All the evidence shows us that. I assume you are in the few? Any evidence or hell, even reason to dismiss the accumulation of data since the 1600's in relation to the age and size of the universe?

Of course his point refers to 'the physical aspects of the universe'. What other aspects does it have? It is a large lump of energy (scientific energy, not woo energy), either as 'pure' energy or matter and also the antiparticles of all the matter.

johnsix

hiorta wrote: »

That is indeed held to be true by many, although quantum physics and eastern mysticism seem to have gone beyond that point. It is beyond my comprehension, anyway.

Please elaborate. How does quantum physics go beyond that point? And what does eastern mysticism have to do with the nature of the universe?

lilRedSmurf

hiorta wrote: »

Spirit contact cannot ever be taken for granted or commanded. We can only invite and request in a humble and respectful way.

Spirit folk are only folk who have 'died' to this sphere of Life. They live on in a finer vibration, retaining all the faculties of soul - memory of who they were, what they did, who and what they knew, what they regret, what they may have believed, etc. They are no more imaginary now than they were then.

The central point is that we are spiritual beings with bodies and not bodies with spirits. The spiritual us - the real us - is eternal. Whether you consider this to be good or bad news is your privilege. It will all unfold in time.

The boundless universe can accommodate all.

I agree for the most part but dont you think that people should know how to protect themselves also? Things arent all sweetness and light out there. Yes we have guardians and teachers and former people out there i wholeheartedly believe that but there are also things that have not and never will be human or kind or compasionate or respectful of your personal space. I've been called in to get rid of too many nasty pieces of work and pieces of things floating around that attach themselves to people with parasitic or even malicious intent sometimes.

First order of business must always be a persons safety and piece of mind, then explore to your hearts content but only when you know what you're getting into.


I have no intention of scaring flyingdagger or anyone else for that matter. I just want to make the point that you must feel safe and protected when dealing with things like this because fear breeds vulnerability and that can be taken advantage of in either world.



One last thing... boys do you really think picking a fight is gonna be helpful to the original poster? You gave your potential explainations unhindered, please allow the other point of view the same courtesy.

johnsix

I wouldn't consider "it's just a waking dream" and "it a person's eternal soul either asking for help or to cause you harm and you have to burn some sage and click your heels together to get rid of it" equally likely explanations.
One is a fairly common phenomenon that is pretty well understood the other a completely unfounded hypotheses based on someones personal beliefs with no supporting evidence.

I think there is a point to arguing this. It shows the OP that one explaintion happens to most people is and is completely harmless, and the other has no basis.

Further more what basis have you for your belief that there are things with "parasitic or even malicious intent." Has anyone ever died (or been injured or made sick)from a ghost attack?

???

Peopel die every year from 'Tea cosy related incidents'. The only people ever injured in paranormal situations are 'witches' who are killed.

johnsix

??? wrote: »

The only people ever injured in paranormal situations are 'witches' who are killed.

Well that's their own fault for weighting as much as ducks.

lilRedSmurf

johnsix wrote: »

Further more what basis have you for your belief that there are things with "parasitic or even malicious intent." Has anyone ever died (or been injured or made sick)from a ghost attack?

"Ghost attack" is a touch melodramatic dont you think...?

My basis is that I've delt with it, seen it, felt it. Frankly thats enough for me.

And yes i've seen people become ill because of it but only in very extreme circumstances. It does happen more then you'd think. I've seen someone wake up with scratches and bruises with an infrared camera set up in the room because they thought they were doing it somehow while they slept.

???

Newspaper articles or anything supporting that?

lilRedSmurf

johnsix wrote: »

I think there is a point to arguing this. It shows the OP that one explaintion happens to most people is and is completely harmless, and the other has no basis.

There is no point in arguing but if one only has in depth knowlege of a single explaination how can they tell in certain terms that another explaination isn't just as relevant from a different perspective.

Who's to say what's relevant to an individual that you know little or nothing about. Sharing knowlege in a rounded way and allowing someone to come up with their own associations and relevancy is a far healthier way of going about things. And the OP posted on a paranormal forum so perhaps they were looking for an opinion other then that of a cynic.

lilRedSmurf

??? wrote: »

Newspaper articles or anything supporting that?

People who go through traumatic situations often are not the first to run to the presses shouting about it, looking for a book deal. I have nothing more then my word and patient records and those are confidential.

???

lilRedSmurf wrote: »

People who go through traumatic situations often are not the first to run to the presses shouting about it, looking for a book deal. I have nothing more then my word and patient records and those are confidential.

I disagree. Most people who have unusual attacks are quick to run to the press. Anyone who's attacked by a shark for example (about 12 a year), same with alien abductions. If malicious ghost attacks happen you must have some evidence? Might I ask how you've seen 'confidential' records?

lilRedSmurf wrote: »

There is no point in arguing but if one only has in depth knowlege of a single explaination how can they tell in certain terms that another explaination isn't just as relevant from a different perspective.

But surely in an argument you have two opposing sides who both know one stance and they try to convince the other side of their stance? That makes this argument all the more worthwhile. I am genuinely interested in how eastern mysticism is related to quantum mechanics.

Who's to say what's relevant to an individual that you know little or nothing about. Sharing knowlege in a rounded way and allowing someone to come up with their own associations and relevancy is a far healthier way of going about things. And the OP posted on a paranormal forum so perhaps they were looking for an opinion other then that of a cynic.

We're sceptics not cynics. And surely it's a little cynical to say that it's a malicious spirit than lucid dreaming?

johnsix

lilRedSmurf wrote: »

There is no point in arguing but if one only has in depth knowlege of a single explaination how can they tell in certain terms that another explaination isn't just as relevant from a different perspective.

Who's to say what's relevant to an individual that you know little or nothing about. Sharing knowlege in a rounded way and allowing someone to come up with their own associations and relevancy is a far healthier way of going about things. And the OP posted on a paranormal forum so perhaps they were looking for an opinion other then that of a cynic.

So what you're saying is "what people would like to be true, is true".
That if they like the paranormal explanation over the scientific, then the paranormal one is equally or more valid regardless of the evidence.
Sorry but that doesn't fly. It's not how science works, it's not how logic works and its not how common sense works.

lilRedSmurf wrote: »

"Ghost attack" is a touch melodramatic dont you think...?

My basis is that I've delt with it, seen it, felt it. Frankly thats enough for me.

And yes i've seen people become ill because of it but only in very extreme circumstances. It does happen more then you'd think. I've seen someone wake up with scratches and bruises with an infrared camera set up in the room because they thought they were doing it somehow while they slept.

So you and you alone are immune to the psychological processes that cause many people to mistake the ordinary for the paranormal?
Is there any possibility that you might be mistaken in some manner?

I've seen someone wake up with scratches and bruises.

I've also seen someone produce an elephant from thin air.
I've seen someone walk through glass.
I've seen someone walk on water and float in the air.

lilRedSmurf

??? wrote: »

I disagree. Most people who have unusual attacks are quick to run to the press. Anyone who's attacked by a shark for example (about 12 a year), same with alien abductions. If malicious ghost attacks happen you must have some evidence? Might I ask how you've seen 'confidential' records?

They are the records of my clients from the last almost 9 years.

Thats a shark... big a*s one with teeth... TV crews understandable.
I'm talking trauma that's a lot more intimate, the kind where you're terrified you're loosing your mind and you dont know why and you dont want to be committed.

I like open debate with people who are open to ideas. Not outright argument with those already wholey fixed in their beliefs, I dont see the point in it if you're not in it to learn and grow.

Oh and I'd actually like to see how that eastern mysticism and quantum physics thing works out. It could well prove to be entertaining.

johnsix

lilRedSmurf wrote: »

I like open debate with people who are open to ideas. Not outright argument with those already wholey fixed in their beliefs, I dont see the point in it if you're not in it to learn and grow.

Ah.... the-you're-closed-minded-cause-you-don't-believe-what-I-believe argument, a classic.
We're not fixed in our beliefs or closed minded, we just like some evidence on which to base a change in our beliefs.

Why don't you believe in Flying spaghetti Monster or the Invisible Pink Unicorn or Russels Teapot?

???

As John is saying, We're tottally open to your beliefs. I just won't blindly accept them. I personally don't believe in ghosts despite having a 'ghostly experience'. I think there is much more rational and resonable explanations around. If, however, someone showed me solid verifiable evidence I would hold up my hands and say I was wrong. I'm not at all closed minded. It is people caught in a rigid, unchanging belief system that are close minded. Remember, it's good to have an open mind but not one so open your brain falls out!!!

If you have 9 years of records, a) you're breaching the data protection act!!! and b) surely you have at least one respectable reference gathered in nine years of work?

lilRedSmurf

??? wrote: »

If you have 9 years of records, a) you're breaching the data protection act!!! and b) surely you have at least one respectable reference gathered in nine years of work?

I am obliged to keep records and detailed medical histories of everyone who comes through my clinic or that i have treated in the past. The data protection act hasn't a thing to do with it as they are the records i have created for archive and insurance purposes in my practice.

And they are very respectable people and not references that i was refering to.:rolleyes:

toiletduck

OP sounds exactly like sleep paralysis, I've been experiencing on and off since I was a child.

hiorta

Flying Dagger, I hope the replies and suggestions have been of use to you.
Have you tried any? If so, with what change, if any?

In response to queries re quantum physics and Eastern mysticism, the various methods used in Eastern mysticism and the studies done by Western science have arrived at virtually the same point of understanding at approximaterly the same time.
The use of mind in the search could hardly be more different, though.

The Eastern way was through using the mind in the meditative state, while western science used the intellectually polished mind.

There is an excellent book bringing all this together, written by Fritjof Capra, called 'The Tao of Physics'.
It required so many varied talents, knowlege, understanding and learning to pull such diverse approaches together, but in the search for the basics of our universe, this is worth a look.


An excerpt:
From the Tao of Physics….Fritjof Capra.

In the hadron bootstrap, all particles are dynamically composed of one another in a self consistent way and in that sense can be said to ‘contain' one another. In Mahayana Buddhism, a very similar notion is applied to the whole universe. This cosmic network of interpenetrating things and events is illustrated in the Avatamsaka Sutra by the metaphor of Indira’s net, a vast network of precious gems hanging over the palace of the god Indira. In the words of Sir Charles Eliot:

“ In the heaven of Indira there is said to be a network of pearls, so arranged that if you look at one, you see all the others reflected in it. In the same way each object in the world is not merely itself, but involves every other object and in fact is everything else. ‘In every particle of dust, there are present Buddhas without number.’ “

The similarity of this image with that of the hadron bootstrap is indeed striking. The metaphor of Indira’s net may justly be called the first bootstrap model, created by the Eastern sages some 2500 years before the beginning of particle physics.
Buddhists insist that the concept of interpenetration is not comprehensible intellectually, but is to be experienced by an enlightened mind in the state of meditation.
Thus D.T. Suzuki writes:
‘The Buddha (in the Gandavyuha) is no more the one who is living in the world conceivable in space and time. His consciousness ii not that of an ordinary mind which must be regulated according to the senses and logic…The Buddha of the Gandavyuha lives in a spiritual world which has its own rules.

In modern physics, the situation is quite similar. The idea of every particle containing all the others is inconceivable in ordinary space and time. It describes a reality which, like the one of the Buddha, has its own rules. In the case of the hadron bootstrap, they are the rules of quantum theory and relativity theory, the key concept being that the forces holding particles together are themselves particles exchanged in the cross channels. This concept can be given a concise mathematical meaning, but is almost impossible to visualise. It is a specifically relativistic feature of the bootstrap and since we have no direct experience of the four-dimensional world of space-time, it is extremely difficult to imagine how a single particle can contain all other particles and at the same time, be a part of each of them.

This however, is exactly the view of the Mahayana: When the one is set against all the others, the one is seen as pervading them all and at the same time embracing them all in itself.
The idea of each particle containing all the others has not only arisen in Eastern mysticism, but also in Western mystical thought. It is implicit, for example, in William Blake’s famous lines:

To see a world in a grain of sand
And a heaven in a wild flower,
Hold infinity in the palm of your hand
And eternity in an hour.

johnsix

Seems like it only the metaphors are accidentally similar.
People have been doing that with the bible and Nostradamus for centuries.

Also the Bootstrap model has been superseded by the current one : Quantum chromodynamics
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bootstrap_model

Eastern Mystics never predicted the stuff physicists have.
Meditation does not equal empirical research.

???

The very first sentance is wrong. Hadrons are composed of quarks, not other hadrons. There are six flavours of quark, up, down, strange, charmed, top and bottom. All hadrons are made of specific compinations of quarks. for example a proton has two ups and a down and a neutron has two downs and an up. In no way does a proton contain a neutron.

Noopti

My God, the amount of codswollop being spouted in this thread is ridiculous. Yes, I know this is the paranormal forum, but this person is looking for advice on what is basically, a sleep condition. Maybe it should have been posted in a medical forum instead.

It is sleep paralysis (paralysis is not a necessity for this condition), plain and simple. Nothing more.
You don't need sage or minerals or anything like this, unless they give you personal piece of mind and allow you to sleep more soundly. Which would make them a placebo in this case.

Just try to de-stress before sleeping, maybe meditate. Whatever it takes to allow to sleep soundly, because that is the only problem here. Not spirits, demons or witches, just plain old bad sleeping.

Oryx

Noopti wrote: »

My God, the amount of codswollop being spouted in this thread is ridiculous. Yes, I know this is the paranormal forum, but this person is looking for advice on what is basically, a sleep condition. Maybe it should have been posted in a medical forum instead.

It is sleep paralysis (paralysis is not a necessity for this condition), plain and simple. Nothing more.
You don't need sage or minerals or anything like this, unless they give you personal piece of mind and allow you to sleep more soundly. Which would make them a placebo in this case.

Just try to de-stress before sleeping, maybe meditate. Whatever it takes to allow to sleep soundly, because that is the only problem here. Not spirits, demons or witches, just plain old bad sleeping.

The person asked for opinion in Paranormal. Not sleeping and dreaming. Not medical. So obviously they are open to paranormal explanations, even if other posters here find them unacceptable.

It could be sleep paralysis, or stress from a house move, even if it is 8 months ago. It takes a while for the subconcious dream mind to catch up with reality.

Or it could be a ghost.:) In which case relaxing and not being afraid will help, even if its simply because the actual relaxing removes some level of stress from the op, which is non spook related at all.

???

Anyone ever notice that sceptics houses are never haunted? Odd that.

Oryx

??? wrote: »

Anyone ever notice that sceptics houses are never haunted? Odd that.

Maybe they're afraid their peers will piddle themselves laughing if they mention it.

???

Most sceptics claim is due to the sceptical aura that surrounds them. It's caused by longwave sceptical neurotransmitions which cause the ionic structure of the nitrogen in the air around them to vibrate rapidly. And everyone knows ghosts are afraid of rapidly vibrating nitrogen.

Oryx

??? wrote: »

Most sceptics claim is due to the sceptical aura that surrounds them. It's caused by longwave sceptical neurotransmitions which cause the ionic structure of the nitrogen in the air around them to vibrate rapidly. And everyone knows ghosts are afraid of rapidly vibrating nitrogen.

Actually, all ghosts, with the exception of Caspar the friendly ghost, are afraid of garlic and lit lightbulbs. Everyone knows this. Call yourself an expert... Pffft....:rolleyes:

johnsix

Oryx wrote: »

Actually, all ghosts, with the exception of Caspar the friendly ghost, are afraid of garlic and lit lightbulbs. Everyone knows this. Call yourself an expert... Pffft....:rolleyes:

also good quality cameras and clear photographs.

???

They love flash bulbs though!

johnsix

??? wrote: »

They love flash bulbs though!

Thats orbs dude.