why diss eircom

Hank Scorpio

ok ok eircom are liers cheaters whatever u might want to put it.....
but they are REALLLY reliable etc
i think there great..... even 1 mb is so stable
bow down to them imo..... only im posting alot of threads on speed but seriously after moving onto this ntl crap even half my eircom deal wud be sweet........

all im saying is dont badmouth eircom
there a very VERY reliable service

Phlann

Sounds like somebody's had a sniff of the barmaid's apron

Wcool

Eircon are reliable BUT

- Eircon is expensive: they charge 25 euro for a network that is laughable at best

- Eircon has a bad record on everything:
10 years ago it took 3 months to get a connection
7 years ago they refused flat fees for dial up
5 years ago they ****ed us up with shares that were worthless (ok ok also governments fault)
3 years ago they refused to roll out broadband until they had to

- Eircon is singlehandedly reponsible for the crap we are in now
They managed to stop competition in every way possible.

Just pure on principle try to stay away from them

Hank Scorpio

u pay for what u get..

AlmightyCushion

nuxxx wrote: »

u pay for what u get..

What's so great about eircom's network that deserves it to have the highest line rental in europe?

Wcool

Exactly, for your money you can get a LOT better than Eircon

If you are lucky you can get Smart or Magnet but even IBB, Digiweb and BT are much better value than Eircon.

BT seems to be russian roulette: if it works it's cheaper and better, but if Billing Trouble gets you, you are screwed...

Hank Scorpio

ye its russian roulette
eircom are so solid.... only there tech department are out of dept..... but.... there ok..

dub45

nuxxx wrote: »

ye its russian roulette
eircom are so solid.... only there tech department are out of dept..... but.... there ok..

Have you ever heard of captial letters, grammar, punctuation, correct spelling etc. etc?

If you want people to read and respond to your posts please have the courtesy to use proper English.

cgarvey

There's no denying that eircom power one of the most reliable consumer broadband networks in the country. There is a value in that, which is often overlooked by the hunt to the bottom for the cheapest available.

I.e. I spent one hour of my time troubleshooting my Digiweb Metro (which is great value for money, especially given the line rental saving), talking to different CSRs rebooting modems, etc. One hour of my time is more than the saving of Metro for a few months, so that takes the shine off the saving.

The subscription is not always the only cost of broadband.

Kensington

They're a bunch of rip off merchants tbh. They own pretty much the entire network infrastructure yet they are the most expensive for everything. How can the likes of BT, UTV, Perlico, Imagine etc. resell the eircom broadband packages as their own, charge LESS than eircom do for essentially the exact same service, yet still be making a profit on it? The same goes for the call packages and bundles.

cgarvey

Yup, they have a handomse markup, no doubt about it. I'm not defending that, I'm just pointing out that hidden costs (like how long you're on the phone to BT trying to sort out the billing nightmare for a few hours over 3 months, or on to Perlico trying to get a line fault repaired, etc.) often bring the cheaper price up a bit.

I'm no fan of eircom (although, if I was a shareholder I would be pretty happy), just pointing out the need to consider all costs when comparing.

jor el

nuxxx wrote: »

u pay for what u get..

Except that in some cases, people are over paying for what they don't get.

Kensington wrote: »

How can the likes of BT, UTV, Perlico, Imagine etc. resell the eircom broadband packages as their own, charge LESS than eircom do for essentially the exact same service, yet still be making a profit on it? The same goes for the call packages and bundles.

Up until about a year ago, when they increased the price slightly, BT were making a loss on the bundled 3Mbps and line rental. It was costing BT about 2euro a month more than the customer paid. Kind of goes to explain why they can't afford to fix their billing dept :pac:

Gonzo

unfortunately most of us who live outside Dublin City and have no choice but to stick with Eircom, I hate them but have Eircom broadband because there is no other option for me like Smart, Magnet, NTL etc. If they were available to me I would be gone long ago. I have the option of wireless but I wouldnt touch that with a bargepole. NTL are now on their second upgrade in 3 months, Eircom announced their little upgrade before NTL and their is still no sign of any upgrades coming and they could be delayed for months more. Im totally sick of it, paying top doller for a 3meg connection that you can get in Dublin City for peanuts using a different provider. The only good thing about Eircom broadband is that it is good for what it is despite the price and thats why I havent switched to the other eircom resellers as they generally are not quite as good.

paulm17781

nuxxx wrote: »

u pay for what u get..

I pay far less for a rock solid 12Mb NTL connection.

dub45

paulm17781 wrote: »

I pay far less for a rock solid 12Mb NTL connection.

Good for you but it is undeniable that for many people NTL can be a lottery in terms of performance, customer service etc. How many times have we read on here of people taking time off work for 'engineers' who never turn up etc etc.

randomname

dub45 wrote: »

Good for you but it is undeniable that for many people NTL can be a lottery in terms of performance, customer service etc. How many times have we read on here of people taking time off work for 'engineers' who never turn up etc etc.

I have had the exact same problem with Eircom Engineers too.

I'm glad I have the choice of being able to get rid of Eircom and its the best move I have made in terms of broadband.

paulm17781

dub45 wrote: »

Good for you but it is undeniable that for many people NTL can be a lottery in terms of performance, customer service etc. How many times have we read on here of people taking time off work for 'engineers' who never turn up etc etc.

No doubt. I've had problems with UPC in the past, quite recently in fact. However, in my experience, their CS is no worse than Eircon's.

Also, I have had DSL in two separate addresses and it has never been as solid as cable, that was some time ago mind (512k days).

smellslikeshoes

dub45 wrote: »

Good for you but it is undeniable that for many people NTL can be a lottery in terms of performance, customer service etc. How many times have we read on here of people taking time off work for 'engineers' who never turn up etc etc.

Not to mention the fact that only a small percentage of the polulation can get ntl.

dub45

paulm17781 wrote: »

No doubt. I've had problems with UPC in the past, quite recently in fact. However, in my experience, their CS is no worse than Eircon's.

Also, I have had DSL in two separate addresses and it has never been as solid as cable, that was some time ago mind (512k days).

In many ways it is unfair to compare the two. DSL is really a compromise technology based on copper wire which was never designed for bb and the demands it puts on it. I often think it is a miracle that it works at all.

On the other hand given the upgrades etc cable should be a much more reliable provider of bb - given that it is being installed for the express purpose of providing bb etc.

If it were anyone but upc providing cable I would be happy to go for cable as my own line isn't great but given my experiences with NTL/UPC both in their pre UPC days and presently I would only go with with them as a very last resort.

conceited

Eircom are lovely.:pac:

delllat

eircom are a reasonable isp,theyre just way overpriced in my opinion,im paying almost 75 a month for 3 meg broadband when ntl are about to launch 20 meg for 40 a month,its crazy

dub45

randomname wrote: »

I have had the exact same problem with Eircom Engineers too.
I'm glad I have the choice of being able to get rid of Eircom and its the best move I have made in terms of broadband.

The difference is that it is commonplace with UPC and in many cases an 'engineer's' visit is not neceesary at all so they are doubly wasting people's time.

shawnee

Hello , this Eircom bashing is interesting. I even hear someone suggesting Smart !! anyone remember about a year ago when they went bust leaving thousands without service. ???? And why did they go bust, because they owed several thousand euro to Eircom and despite repeated requests , they couldn't pay it. Who was blamed Eircom.!!!!!
What many people don't realise is that in most cases you are still piggybacking off the Eircom network (****e I hear you say, but then again it is ****e for whatever company your with)
So lets have a bit of a reality check here !! My friend works with Eircom and every day customers are returning to them from these other companies. That is why several years after deregulation they still have about 85 per cent of the customers...

Cabaal

lads, keep on topic and no txt speak!

Phlann

shawnee wrote: »

Hello , this Eircom bashing is interesting. I even hear someone suggesting Smart !! anyone remember about a year ago when they went bust leaving thousands without service. ???? And why did they go bust, because they owed several thousand euro to Eircom and despite repeated requests , they couldn't pay it. Who was blamed Eircom.!!!!!
What many people don't realise is that in most cases you are still piggybacking off the Eircom network (****e I hear you say, but then again it is ****e for whatever company your with)
So lets have a bit of a reality check here !! My friend works with Eircom and every day customers are returning to them from these other companies. That is why several years after deregulation they still have about 85 per cent of the customers...

Despite their early problems, Smart are one of the best ISPs in the country at the moment. Just a shame they're not available in more areas.

And, for the record, Eircom have less than 50% of the broadband market. Their share of the phone market is in the 60s or 70s iirc.

Kensington

shawnee wrote: »

Hello , this Eircom bashing is interesting. I even hear someone suggesting Smart !! anyone remember about a year ago when they went bust leaving thousands without service. ???? And why did they go bust, because they owed several thousand euro to Eircom and despite repeated requests , they couldn't pay it. Who was blamed Eircom.!!!!!

The fact that eircom went and cut off tens of thousands of people in the space of about 48 hours is what annoyed a lot of people. I still to this day think it is a little odd how they could cut people off so quickly, yet it took many people up to a month to switch over from eircom to smart. Eircom's primary aim at the time seemed to be to drive smart telecom into the ground, and fortunately, they failed.

shawnee wrote:

What many people don't realise is that in most cases you are still piggybacking off the Eircom network (****e I hear you say, but then again it is ****e for whatever company your with)

Sure, they're piggybacking on the eircom network - why then, are these "piggybackers" charging LESS than eircom do? Surely, they should end up charging more, no?

shawnee wrote:

That is why several years after deregulation they still have about 85 per cent of the customers...

Is that 85% of actual eircom customers, whereby the customer is fully with eircom? Or is it 85% of eircom customers PLUS eircom resellers?

shawnee

Fact, Eircom cut the lines on Smart, they did not cut off tens of thousand customers. Like any plc or company that operates for a profit, Eircom were owed up to tens of thousand by Smart and despite repeated billing they were unable to pay. They then as would any company stopped giving credit !!! They would not stay in business long if they did not do this.
As I already stated these companies which are piggybacking on Eircom lines while they Seem to offer cheaper service are merely offering reductions in some areas to induce customers to sign up. These customers in many cases return to Eircom when after a short while , the so called reductions are not there.
As I already stated Eircom has more than 80% of the customer base on telephone lines. The broadband service has thankfully become highly competitive, many of these companies will go to the wall as we live in a small country and it will not be feasible for several copanies to provide and maintain broadband services.
Eircom are the only company that are maintaining the network, the other companies are merely reselling the Eircom network. When there is a problem these companies merely refer the problem to Eircom. The only money these companies spend is on advertising and marketing !

Phlann

shawnee wrote: »

As I already stated these companies which are piggybacking on Eircom lines while they Seem to offer cheaper service are merely offering reductions in some areas to induce customers to sign up.

What are you talking about?

Smart offer uncontended 15meg broadband plus voice and line rental for 80 quid a month.

Eircom's nearest comparable residential package is €88 for 3meg broadband (€48) + phone (€40). Their fastest package is the 12meg business broadband which costs €169/month!!

There's no tricks, no cons, no illusions, the Smart deal is hugely better value. End of story.

And now NTL are offering 20meg broadband for 40 quid per month!

I really don't understand where you're getting this idea that Eircom are offering us a good deal or that anybody with half a brain is going back to these jokers when they can get such great deals elsewhere. Last I heard their year-on-year share of the broadband market was dropping pretty steadily.

They've dragged their heels for years and they're deservedly being punished for it.

smellslikeshoes

Phlann wrote: »

Eircom's nearest comparable residential package is €88 for 3meg broadband (€48) + phone (€40). Their fastest package is the 12meg business broadband which costs €169/month!!

Thats 169euro+vat so in actuality you're paying close to 200 quid a month for it.

Phlann wrote: »

I really don't understand where you're getting this idea that Eircom are offering us a good deal or that anybody with half a brain is going back to these jokers when they can get such great deals elsewhere. Last I heard their year-on-year share of the broadband market was dropping pretty steadily.

I am one of the people who have Eircom for broadband. If I could get smart or NTL I would but because of where I live that is not an option. My options are basically Eircom or the bitstream resellers. The reason why I am with Eircom is that generally the resellers have more problems. You only have to look at the last 10 pages or so of this forum to realise this, there is probably a dozen or more threads giving out about BT and very few giving out about the quality of Eircoms broadband.

Yes I am paying more than I would be if I was with another provider but my rocksolid connection and the piece of mind that I won't have to deal with things like BT's infamous billing department is worth the few extra euro a month in my mind. Not to mention the fact that if I have a problem on my line I will be dealing straight with Eircom not through a middleman

Marlow

smellslikeshoes wrote: »

Not to mention the fact that if I have a problem on my line I will be dealing straight with Eircom not through a middleman

That is the reason, why any ISP that want's to compete with Eircom needs to build up their own infrastructure instead of selling LLU or bitstream, where Eircom still has their finger in it.

Smart seems to have taken over a few exchanges though, where it would happen the other way around.

Essentially, the only providers, that can beat Eircom at their own game are the fixed wireless products and the fiber products that come down either ESB+the MAN or BT's fibers along the railroad.

Matter of fact, talking of Smart, Eircom did cut each and every customer off, because Smarts bigger business customers were not affected. This is because Smart gives them their phonelines over the fiber, that is rented from e-Net/ESB, not Eircom. Also the DSL was not affected, again because it's not backhauled over Eircom. Eircom could however been able to pull the power to Smarts DSLAMs. Probably would have happened next, if nobody had stepped in.

/Martin

Sqaull20

Only threat to Eircom are the mobile providers like Vodafone, O2 etc imo.

Eircom owns the majority of phone lines in the country ( thank the goverment ), so what can the other providers do that will financially work ?

If the likes of O2 and Vodafone can keep up the improvements shown so far with mobile broadband, like better download limits, speed, consistency, coverage area, pricing and maybe add in mobile call packages to boot they will see alot of action from mainstream users.

A friend of mine has O2 and he is getting a steady 1.5mb - 2.2mb 99% of the time, , he downloaded nearly 15gb last month.

smellslikeshoes

Mobile will never really be able to provide an equal service to a good fixed line broadband product and generally the only people who settle for Hspda can't get anything else because of lack of availability or not having rights to get phonelines etc in. The ideal situation for Ireland for the moment is for providers like Smart/NTL/Magnet/Digiweb to keep hitting Eircom hard in the cities and force them to work harder. Right now I see no reason why anyone should be with eircom or any of the bitstream sellers if they can have broadband provided by Smart/NTL/Magnet.

Marlow

Sqaull20 wrote: »

If the likes of O2 and Vodafone can keep up the improvements shown so far with mobile broadband, like better download limits, speed, consistency, coverage area, pricing and maybe add in mobile call packages to boot they will see alot of action from mainstream users.

A friend of mine has O2 and he is getting a steady 1.5mb - 2.2mb 99% of the time, , he downloaded nearly 15gb last month.

It's not broadband and it's people like your friend that result in super slow connections for everybody else on 3g. 3G is mobile internet, mobile dial-up at best.

The problem is, that were fixed wireless can deliver 20 mbit symmetric and more per sector in optimal conditions (total bandwidth), the cellphone services deliver anything from GPRS speeds to 7.2 mbit (again total bandwidth) per cell and max 384 kbit up, when it's not WCDMA2000.

So with 3g you hit contention, the second a 2nd user enters the cell and that can't be controlled. With fixed wireless and let's take a 2 mbit package, you hit contention, when 11 or more users are using their broadband.

/Martin

Sqaull20

I know, but the likes of NTL/Magnet are not going to go nationwide.

Mobile although no way near as good has that potential.

Marlow

The problem with mobile is, that they actually are trying to push a service to customers that isn't nowhere geared, for what they are selling it for.

Essentially all they are doing is screwing up the marked and making it impossible for start-ups that could have delivered a proper service.

In that sense, they are as evil as Eircom.

They also give the Government an excuse, not to have to do something about it !!

/Martin

Sqaull20

Marlow wrote: »

It's not broadband and it's people like your friend that result in super slow connections for everybody else on 3g. 3G is mobile internet, mobile dial-up at best.

The problem is, that were fixed wireless can deliver 20 mbit symmetric and more per sector in optimal conditions (total bandwidth), the cellphone services deliver anything from GPRS speeds to 7.2 mbit (again total bandwidth) per cell and max 384 kbit up, when it's not WCDMA2000.

So with 3g you hit contention, the second a 2nd user enters the cell and that can't be controlled. With fixed wireless and let's take a 2 mbit package, you hit contention, when 11 or more users are using their broadband.

/Martin

3g although slow, is available in every country in the world, thats a start at least.

WiMAX and Lte aka 4g is interesting tech, might be a bit far off now, but mobile providers have been pushing tech much faster than anyone else has.

Marlow

Sqaull20 wrote: »

3g although slow, is available in every country in the world, thats a start at least.

WiMAX and Lte aka 4g is interesting tech, might be a bit far off now, but mobile providers have been pushing tech much faster than anyone else has.

They have been pushing an excuse. Mobile internet is thought for mail and web use on the go, not broadband.

And are you aware how much of the network still is only GPRS or EDGE at best ? We are talking 56 kbit max.

When looking at Three, specifically, you'll see, how horrible wrong it is. That's always shaped to max 60 kbit upstream. Has NOTHING to do with broadband.

/Martin

Marlow

Anyhow to get back on topic, there are good reasons to diss Eircom:

they have a nationwide phone-network and they are supposed to resell it equally to other providers as their own retail business, but they don't do that. They'll throw all the rocks in the way, they can, if it's just to cancel a request due to spelling.

they have nationwide 3.5 GHz license and have in the trials shown, that they can deliver 6 mbit WiMAX with that in rural areas, but have no interest to do so, because there isn't enough profit in it.

and when it comes to support, you need to be prepared to put 4 hours aside and can be assured, that they do not get it right.

I've been in Ireland 4 1/2 years, but learned this in the first months and it's funny, that everyone that comes to Ireland from the outside, will say doesn't have an opinion at that time, gets the same bad opinion about them within a few weeks. And there are no exceptions to my knowledge.

/Martin

Hank Scorpio

never expected my drunk post to get so many replies :pac:
thing is im stuck here on irishbroadband dsl and i keep getting disconnected every 20 packets , only sufting is working(barely)

neways i would kill to have my old eircom connection back , great pings, full download speeds and no drop outs i suppose my original post was a bit sarcastic in a way but i would really do anything to get that stability back.
I no eircom overcharge and everything related to that, but there service is good
yes there overpriced i agree with that

Sqaull20

Back on topic:

Eircom's original plan was to make as much money as possible as fast as they could, and sell it on for a huge profit in the future.

This hasnt changed since the Aussies took it over, a good fibre network like the asians have would take a lot of investment ( to begin with, very rewarding in long run), which isnt going to happen with Eircom in charge.

I would love to know what kind of investment would be needed to get most of the population on to fibre?

€10 or 15 Billion?

Looking at the Koreans/Japanese networks, it wouldnt cost that much going from say 25mb to 250mb and then 1gb and so on, once a fibre network is established

Its a long term investment with huge rewards, that should have been started years ago.

We cant just blame Eircom though, its just as much the goverments and Comreg's fault.I am angrier with the goverment more than I am with Eircom, who wouldnt do what they did if in the same position?

4g is way off then Marlow?

Marlow

Sqaull20 wrote: »

I would love to know what kind of investment would be needed to get most of the population on to fibre?

It's happening in rural Denmark. 20 mbit/s fiber to every home with the electricity supply.

Sqaull20 wrote: »

4g is way off then Marlow?

There's only trials around there. Anyhow, mobile technologies are ment for what they say: "mobile", not broadband.

WiMAX exists in two flavours: mobile and fixed.

Still doesn't have anything to do with topic. If you want to discuss alternatives to Eircom, maybe you should start a different topic

/Martin

Marlow

nuxxx wrote: »

never expected my drunk post to get so many replies :pac:
thing is im stuck here on irishbroadband dsl and i keep getting disconnected every 20 packets , only sufting is working(barely)

neways i would kill to have my old eircom connection back , great pings, full download speeds and no drop outs i suppose my original post was a bit sarcastic in a way but i would really do anything to get that stability back.
I no eircom overcharge and everything related to that, but there service is good
yes there overpriced i agree with that

The problem might be, that your old eircom connection could turn out as bad as your irishbroadband connection, if the problem is the DSLAM or the connection from the DSLAM to yourself. Honestly IBB DSL and Breeze usually have a very good reputation, so I'd nearly say, that the issue most like lies there.

/Martin

Hank Scorpio

im not sure the problem is every 20 or 15 packets i get 2 bouts of 100% packetloss im living in a apartment complex but the packets that do send have consistent low ping so its not other uses in my apartment causing this .. its really annoying me , msn irc poker clients wont work ah well, gona pick up a o2 mobile kit tomorrow

AlmightyCushion

nuxxx wrote: »

im not sure the problem is every 20 or 15 packets i get 2 bouts of 100% packetloss im living in a apartment complex but the packets that do send have consistent low ping so its not other uses in my apartment causing this .. its really annoying me , msn irc poker clients wont work ah well, gona pick up a o2 mobile kit tomorrow

If the main reason you are getting o2 mobile broadband is for low pings then I wouldn't bother. Pings will be in the hundreds of ms with it.

Hank Scorpio

nah its not for gaming
i just want it so my msn poker irc doesnt time out every 20 seconds , its so infuriating

packet sent *15 , request timed out , packet sent *15 , request timed out and so on.. its stops any stream or any online application thats open

smellslikeshoes

nuxxx wrote: »

nah its not for gaming
i just want it so my msn poker irc doesnt time out every 20 seconds , its so infuriating

packet sent *15 , request timed out , packet sent *15 , request timed out and so on.. its stops any stream or any online application thats open

Even though O2 are considered the best of the three mobile providers generally they are worse than someone like IBB. I presume you have rang them telling them the problem yea? What did they say?

AlmightyCushion

How are you connected to the modem? Wirelessly or through the ethernete port?

oceanclub

nuxxx wrote: »

ok ok eircom are liers cheaters whatever u might want to put it.....
but they are REALLLY reliable etc
i think there great..... even 1 mb is so stable
bow down to them imo..... only im posting alot of threads on speed but seriously after moving onto this ntl crap even half my eircom deal wud be sweet........

all im saying is dont badmouth eircom
there a very VERY reliable service

If Eircom was the only provider of communication services in the country, I wouldn't use them. They're a despicable underhand company. I'd resort to using carrier pigeon.

For further details:

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=171929

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=185687

P.

Marlow

oceanclub wrote: »

If Eircom was the only provider of communication services in the country, I wouldn't use them. They're a despicable underhand company. I'd resort to using carrier pigeon.

Anybody arriving in Ireland get's the same treatment. Exactly my point, that anybody ever to arrive in this country immediatly gets a hate relationship with Eircom.

For myself it went as far, that I startet an ISP If they can't sort it, well .. we'll sort it ourselves then!

/Martin

gleannuirce

"anybody ever to arrive in this country immediatly gets a hate relationship with Eircom."

you got any evidence for that?

"For myself it went as far, that I startet an ISP"

Good for you. You can now start buying wayleaves, digging roads, erecting poles and cables, buying sites to house your gear and you won't need the hated eircom at all.

kleefarr

Sorry but this is the 21st Century. Eircon are a joke and unfortunately they are allowed to control the telephone lines in this country and not be regulated as to what standard and condition the lines are in. :mad:

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=56402158&postcount=817