Plan to dispose Hydrogen Cyanide in Wicklow ??

marcsignal

I just got an email about this, but it's not gonna affect me here in Dachau, ironically.....

http://www.herald.ie/national-news/safety-fears-over-cyanide-disposal-plan-1406488.html

The Email Reads......

SECRET PLANS to “dispose” of barrels of toxic hydrogen cyanide in Wicklow next week will not be tolerated, a packed
community hall in the village of Manor Kilbride in West Wicklow decided last night.

The lethal chemical was used as a weapon of mass murder in Nazi concentration camps under the commercial name Zyklon B and in Iraq by Saddam Hussein against the Kurdish people. It has also been used more recently for the control of insects in ships and buildings, hence its current possession in Ballymount Industrial Estate by UK-based Rentokill.

The proposed “disposal” by explosion is supposed to take place on military lands at Kilbride near Blessington. Despite the fact that the location is in Wicklow, South Dublin County Council is apparently the lead authority for the plans to “dispose” of the chemical by explosive, likely next Monday 23 June.

Families living beside the military lands at Kilbride have been asked by Gardai to evacuate their homes. This begs the question as to how the “disposal” is safe. The site also borders the the Shankill river, which feeds the Poulaphouca Reservoir / Blessington lakes, one of two major sources of Dublin's water supply. It is also beside the Wicklow Mountains National Park, famed for its biodiversity of flora and fauna and large number of visitors. The West Wicklow area has been historically a place for the legal and illegal “disposal” of waste and the health and safety ramifications of this fact continue to this day. There are also very real fears that this will set a precedent for the location to be used in the future for similar “disposal” into our air and water supply.

There has been absolutely no public consultation about the secret plans, which only emerged last week when the story was broken by the Wicklow People newspaper. This was one which was supposed to be kept under wraps. The risk assessment for the “disposal” plans are not yet complete and no elements of the secret plans been made available to the public by South Dublin County Council or Rentokill.

Crucially, the public has not been informed of emergency planning procedures that may or may not be in place. In a familiar pattern of secrecy by the political elite, the South Dublin County Council (SDCC) manager Joe Horan, Wicklow County Council manager Eddie Sheehy and the Minister for the Environment John Gormley have both been aware of the plans for months but failed inform the public. The Environmental “Protection” Agency has also not returned calls to concerned members of the public. The secret plan is being managed by SDCC official John Quinlivin.

Former soldier and Fine Gael TD Billy Timmins told the jammed hall of people from Dublin and Wicklow that problems could also arise with the actual transportation of the hydrogen cyanide. South Dublin County Councillor Mark Daly (SF) spoke of his fears for his own constituents in Tallaght, through which the cyanide will travel. TD Timmins understands that if there is a problem en route, the chemical will be dealt with by explosion there and then. Bizarrely, the hydrogen cyanide is in a safe condition where it is currently being stored in Rentokill, according to a (hastily released) press release issued by South Dublin County Council. This begs the question as to why the proposed “disposal” will take place, the meeting was told.

PDFORRA, which represents soldiers, sailors and airmen of the Defence Forces, are also understood to be concerned at the disposal plans for the heavily used army rifle range. It is understood that the Irish army personnel are to leave the lands during the proposed “disposal” and are not even involved with the planned explosion. Instead, former British army soldiers will be carrying out the explosion of the hydrogen cyanide at the military camp which was handed over to Ireland 83 years ago.

No publically elected councillors in Wickow or South Dublin were informed of the matter as the Waste Management Act apparently allows decisions such as this to be made without consultation. The meeting last night in Kilbride was chaired and addressed by Sinn Féin councillors Gerry O'Neill and John Brady, who have taken the lead on this matter and have requested urgent meetings with the people involved including Minister for our Environment John Gormley. Other political and legal avenues are also being explored.

Meanwhile, the first in a series of peaceful direct action demonstrations was called for 6pm Friday at the Kilbride rifle range in Wicklow. Location map below. Public transport: get 65 bus from Dublin city along N81 to Kilbride and then an hour stroll / hitch along country road (bring visible clothing). There will be people going that way at that time that will give a lift. This matter concerns us all and all are welcome. But maybe bring a gas mask just in case.


I did work in Rentokil years ago, and can confirm the use of Hydrogen Cyanide as a Pestecide.

Davidius

The plot thickens!

Wait....****.

6th

"likely next Monday 23 June" ..... eh ... yesterday?

marcsignal

6th wrote: »

"likely next Monday 23 June" ..... eh ... yesterday?

ha! bugger ! I never noticed that I guess if everyone's still alive it passed off ok then ?

Davidius

marcsignal wrote: »

ha! bugger ! I never noticed that I guess if everyone's still alive it passed off ok then ?

*Dies*

kowloon

I appreciate your sense of irony.

MistyCheese

Why do people freak out so much at the mention of "cyanide". Yes, it's a poison, yes it can be fatal, but so can salt. As far as poisons go, cyanide is far from being the worst.

I'm not saying "let's all go take some cyanide" but compare it to sarin or strychnine. Now they're poisons.

Degsy

Made up to cause panic methinks.

Degsy

MistyCheese wrote: »

I'm not saying "let's all go take some cyanide" but compare it to sarin or strychnine. Now they're poisons.

Yes but they're utterly,utterly different.Every poison is a poison.The most poisonous element in the world currently is thought to be Plutonium and the place across the irish sea in Sellafield manufactures the stuff for use in atomic weapons.

MistyCheese

No, I don't mean that people shouldn't be wary of cyanide, I admit, it is a dangerous substance but strychnine is approximately 60 times more toxic and the majority of people haven't a clue what it is!

How come "cyanide" is a buzzword for "poison that's going to kill you if you go near it." You swallow cyanide and live to tell the tale.

marcsignal

Degsy wrote: »

Made up to cause panic methinks.

The Pic in that article is a fake/staged, unless Arnold Schwarzenegger's working for Rentokil now.
He's the only person I know that could lift up a full 10 Gallon Drum

Sherifu

Did someone say hadron collider?

No?

/leaves thread

Degsy

MistyCheese wrote: »

You swallow cyanide and live to tell the tale.

How old are you?Cyanide is THE poison of choice for suicide pills.It was,as has already been pointed out what they used in nazi gas chambers and in american gas chambers to kill people.You dont "live to tell the tale" or they wouldnt use it.

Degsy

marcsignal wrote: »

The Pic in that article is a fake/staged, unless Arnold Schwarzenegger's working for Rentokil now.
He's the only person I know that could lift up a full 10 Gallon Drum

Not only that,the drum has the symbol for a radiation hazard NOT the skull and crossbones of a poison.

marcsignal

MistyCheese wrote: »

You swallow cyanide and live to tell the tale.

So Hitler could be still hiding in the Andes guys !! ! knew there was something dodgy about the U-977....

You heard it on Boards First !!

ART6

I am no chemist, but they're going to get rid of it by blowing it up??? Having some knowledge of explosives I'd have thought that all that will do is evenly distribute it throughout the atmosphere. Still, what do I know?

Whatever, we don't need the British Army to do that. We have our own resource:D

Rovi

Degsy wrote: »

Not only that,the drum has the symbol for a radiation hazard NOT the skull and crossbones of a poison.

Also, that's a 45 Gallon drum, not 10.
It would weight approximately 210/215Kg if filled with water.

Alun

It's all scaremongering by people who haven't got a clue, but like to pretend that they do. It's not being "blown up", it's being released from the canisters in a controlled environment and burnt. If you burn this stuff it just turns into carbon dioxide, nitrogen oxides and water, all completely harmless.

For the real deal on this, as opposed to the nonsense spouted in the gutter press, see here http://www.sdublincoco.ie/index.aspx?pageid=939&pid=14519

It's a load of fuss about nothing .. as usual.

javaboy

marcsignal wrote: »

So Hitler could be still hiding in the Andes guys !! ! knew there was something dodgy about the U-977....

You heard it on Boards First !!

Some rugby players ate him.

Davidius

ART6 wrote: »

I am no chemist, but they're going to get rid of it by blowing it up??? Having some knowledge of explosives I'd have thought that all that will do is evenly distribute it throughout the atmosphere. Still, what do I know?

You my friend, are a complete idiot. Don't you know that in order to get rid of anything you have to throw grenades at it? Not to mention the use of rocket launchers and dynamite. According to the Rule of the keepingness of Matter and stuff, matter cannot be created and can only be destroyed using lots of explosives. I think it's called liberation or something. May be inaccurate.

marcsignal

Alun wrote: »

It's all scaremongering by people who haven't got a clue, but like to pretend that they do. It's not being "blown up", it's being released from the canisters in a controlled environment and burnt. If you burn this stuff it just turns into carbon dioxide, nitrogen oxides and water, all completely harmless.

For the real deal on this, as opposed to the nonsense spouted in the gutter press, see here http://www.sdublincoco.ie/index.aspx?pageid=939&pid=14519

It's a load of fuss about nothing .. as usual.

Agreed. When I used Hydrogen Cyanide & Methyl Bromide to fumigate ships, grain Stores, and Warehouses with Rentokil, in the 90's, we sealed up the Ship/Silo/Warehouse, released the Gas inside, left it for 24 hours, and then came back the next day and ventilated the gas into the atmosphere, by opening all windows/doors etc. No problem.

ART6

Davidius wrote: »

You my friend, are a complete idiot. Don't you know that in order to get rid of anything you have to throw grenades at it? Not to mention the use rocket launcher and dynamite. According to the Rule of the keepingness of Matter and stuff, matter cannot be created and can only be destroyed using lots of explosives. I think it's called liberation or something. May be inaccurate.

Ah yes. Didn't think of that. Cruise missiles over Wicklow -- Wow:D

marcsignal wrote: »

Agreed. When I used Hydrogen Cyanide & Methyl Bromide to fumigate ships, grain Stores, and Warehouses with Rentokil, in the 90's, we sealed up the Ship/Silo/Warehouse, released the Gas inside, left it for 24 hours, and then came back the next day and ventilated the gas into the atmosphere, by opening all windows/doors etc. No problem.

Yes, I remember that from my days as a ship's engineer. At the time we thought it was a crew reduction measure:D Still, in spite of the press and the alarm of the people, I can't believe that any government would be crazy enough to spread a poison into the air deliberately. I understand that in the UK they burn such things in chemical incinerators and that there is (or was) a plan to build one in Cork. Whatever, there has to be some way of disposing of hazardous wastes and I have no doubt that the way selected in this case is as good as any, even if it does sound a bit extreme to the layman.

MistyCheese

What is the treatment for cyanide poisoning? Seek medical care as soon as possible. There are antidotes (substances that reverse the effects of a poison) available for cyanide poisoning. To get these antidotes you need to go to a hospital or clinic as soon as possible.

Taken from http://www.drugs.com/cg/cyanide-poisoning.html

gcgirl

Why don't they just dump it in Arklow!:D:D

Wertz

MistyCheese wrote: »

Taken from http://www.drugs.com/cg/cyanide-poisoning.html

lol in most cases of cynaide poinsoning, particularly from undiluted prussic acid (the stuff they're burning off), you'll be dead from multiple organ failure and an oxygen starved brain in less than a minute....unless you're already in the hospital or have the antidote to hand. It is one of the most simple and effective organic poisons there is...
Anyways, as Alun mentioned, this is just storm in a teacup stuff...it's being burnt off like any gas would be, there'll be a nice blue flame and a smell of roasted almonds but nobody will die...

ART6

Degsy wrote: »

How old are you?Cyanide is THE poison of choice for suicide pills.It was,as has already been pointed out what they used in nazi gas chambers and in american gas chambers to kill people.You dont "live to tell the tale" or they wouldnt use it.

Maybe this is the start of a national action plan to deal with those who voted no to Lisbon;)

*Oh-Oh, wrong forum* (runs away to hide from mods)

Archeron

I wonder if any serial killers out there are hoping a badly placed explosion doesnt cause it to rain femurs over the local populace.

Manic Moran

Davidius wrote: »

You my friend, are a complete idiot. Don't you know that in order to get rid of anything you have to throw grenades at it? Not to mention the use of rocket launchers and dynamite. According to the Rule of the keepingness of Matter and stuff, matter cannot be created and can only be destroyed using lots of explosives. I think it's called liberation or something. May be inaccurate.

It works great for whales.

Classic clip follows.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8Vmnq5dBF7Y

NTM

Andy Pandy 2

Some good points.

However you have missed the main point. The release of the gas is not the problem, it is the transportation. The hydrogen cyanide is so old, there is a risk that a polymer has formed inside the cylinders. If it has then the contents could be highly explosive and even just a knock could send it up. There have been a number of cases of this happening in America with cylinders just a few years old and they have destroyed whole buildings and released the toxic gas.

Unless the contractors can give 100% guarantee that polymers have not formed and it is 100% safe to move the cylinders, I do not want them going past my house.

This is crazy and must not happen.

ART6

Andy Pandy 2 wrote: »

Some good points.

However you have missed the main point. The release of the gas is not the problem, it is the transportation. The hydrogen cyanide is so old, there is a risk that a polymer has formed inside the cylinders. If it has then the contents could be highly explosive and even just a knock could send it up. There have been a number of cases of this happening in America with cylinders just a few years old and they have destroyed whole buildings and released the toxic gas.

Unless the contractors can give 100% guarantee that polymers have not formed and it is 100% safe to move the cylinders, I do not want them going past my house.

This is crazy and must not happen.

Ah. Shame really. I quite liked Wicklow. Wonder what they'll put in its place? A couple of private hospitals and a few toll booths I suppose?

tony 2 tone

MistyCheese wrote: »

Why do people freak out so much at the mention of "cyanide". Yes, it's a poison, yes it can be fatal, but so can salt. As far as poisons go, cyanide is far from being the worst.

I'm not saying "let's all go take some cyanide" but compare it to sarin or strychnine. Now they're poisons.

Sarin yes, is more toxic than Cyanide (either potassium or hydrogen), but comparing strychnine as worse would be unfair. The mechanisms of entry for strychnine are absorption and ingestion, but for hydrogen cyanide there is also inhalation.
Also have never seen strychnine developed/used as a chemical weapon, where as both sarin and hydrogen cyanide have.
I work with potassium cyanide/hexacyanoferrate and hydrogen cyanide, and would never be so dismissive of either of them. Have to wear mask while weighing them out, and ensure all spills are cleared correctly. Much rather be working with something much more safe, like kittens

Didn't see any mention of them using either fuel oil or diesel in the article, but have seen it in others, would thought that HCN being highly flammable and with a flammable liquid that it would have been destroyed by the explosion.