Some Simple Etiquette and Courtesy for Live Play

ozpoker

I've been meaning to write this for a while.

{Rant}

OK. I know I'm a foreigner here and that poker has been on the Isle for a while. I don't know if it's because of the influx of new players or if these etiquette concepts have never made it to this side of the pond. Feel free to put me in my place if I'm out of line. Even if you already understand these points, please gently educate the uninitiated out there.

1) Play in turn!

A) When someone announces "Raise" in a PL or NL game, refrain from mucking until the raiser has either announced the amount or actually put the chips in the pot. Yes, I know you intend to muck anyway. But by mucking before the amount is known, you 1) give the raiser information that may affect his raise amount and even worse 2) can start a chain reaction of mucking that can really affect the amount. Please, just be patient, let the raiser complete his action, then muck.

If you intend to muck and leave the table for any reason, please wait until it is your turn before leaving. By abandoning your cards and rushing out to smoke (or whatever), you have a major effect on the current hand. Everyone on your right just got promoted one seat closer to the button and this can have a major effect on how the hand goes down. Again, please have some courtesy for the other players and wait the extra 10 seconds it takes to muck your cards in turn.

2) Courtesy due the other players.

A) When you are in a game, your attention and courtesy should be directed to the other players at the table above all others. When you need to attend to something outside the game, please either keep an eye on the table so you can continue to play in turn or step away from the table and take care of your business without hindering the game.

The most common abuses of this occur when drinks/food arrive and you need to transact with the server. If you are involved in a hand, please ask the server to wait or come back. Last weekend, I had a player on my left, UTG, look at his cards, waive the server down, conduct a lengthy transaction that took a minute and a half, look at his cards again, and then muck them. This was way out of line, IMO.

Poker is a social game. That may be one of its greatest attractions. But when a player is in a hand, please give him the courtesy of playing his hand without distracting him. I know I'm prone to telling long winded stories at the table, but I will always shut up if the player I'm relating the story to becomes involved in a hand. I appreciate it when this courtesy is returned to me.

C) Saying "Time" when you need to think. I know this one is very obscure, and there are very few players that use this. Let me explain it and see if I can convince you to start using this courtesy.

Playing in big bet games, we sometimes are faced with a decision for a large part or all of our stack. By their very nature, these are the most important decisions we make as poker players, and as such, often require the most time to make. Whenever it's apparent to me that I need to take more than a short amount of time to make my decision, I say "Time". This is shorthand for "I know the action is on me, but I am going to take some time to make my decision". This does two things. It keeps others from mistaking my inaction for spacing out, and it allows me to work through my decision uninterrupted by players or the dealer thinking I might just be spacing out. Also, if you know I say "Time" whenever I am thinking about a decision, you can feel more confident in "interrupting" me when I truly am just spacing out! If everyone did this, the games would flow so much more smoothly.

OK, I feel better now.

{/Rant}

jimmii

If everyone did this live poker would be a lot more enjoyable and these things are all pretty simple guide lines to abide by.

EDIT: Maybe add something about talking during a hand that you are not involved in. The amount of times people have said what their cards were and things like that or else when a flush draw hits and they say they would have made it etc.

mdwexford

1) A) is very annoying.

1) i often do myself, last hand before the break or if i need to go to the jacks i just look at my hand and leave the table if im not playing it.

2) C) might make the dealer think you've just called the clock on yourself.

ozpoker

mdwexford wrote: »

1) i often do myself, last hand before the break or if i need to go to the jacks i just look at my hand and leave the table if im not playing it.

Shame on you!! Go forth and sin no more.

mdwexford wrote: »

2) C) might make the dealer think you've just called the clock on yourself.

Hence my Sisyphean educational campaign. "Time" is for yourself. "Clock" is for people that are abusing "Time".

TripleAce

Nice post. One of the things I personally hate is players taking ages to fold a hand that you know from the first second they look at their cards that they are going to fold…just a waste of time (ie. Big raise before them, look down at 3-9 of clubs and thinking a while before folding “ah, but they were suited!”). I think 95% of the hands should be a no-brainer on how they should be played in certain circumstances.

Agree on point 1A with you, whereas I do 1B myself sometimes, usually when I am seated in EP or MP and need to rush to the Gents before the next hand starts (need to get enough time to wash my hands also ), although if in the early stages of the tourney I don’t mind missing a hand, so I usually wait.

smurph

well said sir,
The raise thing annoys me the most. There are one or 2 players around the Dublin Circuit who announce raise and then pause for between 10 - 15 seconds announcin the amount.. I know they do this while looking around the table to see if there are reactions from players i.e. the obvious lifting of cards and getting ready to throw them in.....


I would also like to point out that Oz is the Politest American poker player I know:rolleyes::rolleyes:

mocata

I always thought the long dramatic pause was because they werent lifted up enough as babies?

El Stuntman

'How to Behave in a Considerate and Courteous Manner'

by An American Poker Player

published by Irony Publishing

coming to a bookstore near YOU!!

thedini

slowrollers must die!!!!

jimmii

thedini wrote: »

slowrollers must die!!!!

Worst thing you can do ever. Its been a while since I have seen a really bad one live though what sort of reaction do they get these days? I hope they are shamed into leaving straight away.

Glowingmind

Boorish Americans........

They come over here and take our jobs.......and chips....

El Stuntman

jimmii wrote: »

Worst thing you can do ever. Its been a while since I have seen a really bad one live though what sort of reaction do they get these days? I hope they are shamed into leaving straight away.

unless it's Boardsie on Boardsie

then it can be quite amusing

smurph

jimmii wrote: »

Worst thing you can do ever. Its been a while since I have seen a really bad one live though what sort of reaction do they get these days? I hope they are shamed into leaving straight away.

DIE SLOWROLLERS DIE

jimmii

El Stuntman wrote: »

unless it's Boardsie on Boardsie

then it can be quite amusing

Yeh its can be quite funny when you know the person and its just a little game but the rest of the time just no.

nicnicnic

ozpoker wrote: »

If you intend to muck and leave the table for any reason, please wait until it is your turn before leaving. By abandoning your cards and rushing out to smoke (or whatever), you have a major effect on the current hand. Everyone on your right just got promoted one seat closer to the button and this can have a major effect on how the hand goes down. Again, please have some courtesy for the other players and wait the extra 10 seconds it takes to muck your cards in turn.

guilty:(

robinblinds

Imagine the emabarrassment folding, then standing up with a map of Greenland on your trousers as you scamper off to the toilet...pointing the finger at oz obviously...

Really though, these are things that should automatically be rules. Not suggestions. The "time" idea is also a no brainer. Or a simple "give me a minute on this please", followed by a simple "All in"

jimmii

robinblinds wrote: »

Or a simple "give me a minute on this please", followed by a simple "All in"

Pretty sure that is in the beginners guide in how to make it obvious you have the nuts.

califano

A.) Agree
B.) Agree
C.) Nice idea and i have seen you do this on several occasions and i knew the reason you said it but for others this will never catch on because people would in an odd way feel embarrased or too proud about to use it.

robinblinds

jimmii wrote: »

Pretty sure that is in the beginners guide in how to make it obvious you have the nuts.

Its just me one-liner posting style.

Me Again

In an ideal world, everyone would be forced to:

1. Stack their chips so the high denomination ones are at the front. I lose track of the times I have been tempted to set a player all in and then worked out that they have three blacks craftily hidden behind a pile of reds. Dealers are terrible about enforcing that.

2. Ensure that their cards are clearly visible at all times on the table. I quite often find players cupping their hands over their cards so either i) I don't seem them ii) the dealer doesn't see them and deals the turn, only for them to say 'what did you do that for, I have cards'. Obviously this is bad when it's angle shooting (as it often is) but players should know this is bad practice. It would be good if all clubs had a table rule that hidden cards should be ruled immediately dead but I know that's unenforceable as the players would say the dealer should be following the action at all times.

karlh

mocata wrote: »

I always thought the long dramatic pause was because they werent lifted up enough as babies?

lol wp sir

jimmii

karlh wrote: »

lol wp sir

Lol I had missed that ty for quoting it!!!

ZZR1100

slowrollers are the scum of the earth.

another common comment i hate is some1 saying thats the 4th time in a row u have raised / i fold, with people left to act

mormank

haha. was playin an omaha game in sligo last night and there was this one guy who everytime was in a showdown situation with a good hand would wait for you to show and then turn over his cards one by one dramatically, always starting with the two irrelevant cards and then one relevant card and then the killer blow...i couldnt help but laugh when he did it to me. i just replied saying 'nice hand..oh and i loved the slow roll!', to which he replied, thank you...:rolleyes:

Slash/ED

I often use the time one, but it's mainly because I want my opponent to think I'm contemplating a call, when all I'm really thinking about is Vegas and the f--king Mirage

Taxipete29

Me Again wrote: »

2. Ensure that their cards are clearly visible at all times on the table. I quite often find players cupping their hands over their cards so either i) I don't seem them ii) the dealer doesn't see them and deals the turn, only for them to say 'what did you do that for, I have cards'. Obviously this is bad when it's angle shooting (as it often is) but players should know this is bad practice. It would be good if all clubs had a table rule that hidden cards should be ruled immediately dead but I know that's unenforceable as the players would say the dealer should be following the action at all times.

You are required to make your cards visible at all times. It is already a rule

bops

imo lack of etiquette at the poker table is fine because:

lack of etiquette = ignorance
ignorance = bad at the pokah
bad at the pokah = more $$$ for you

therefore lack of etiquette should be welcomed at the poker table with open arms, all you need is a little bit of common sense and maybe some thick skin

ozpoker

bops wrote: »

imo lack of etiquette at the poker table is fine because:

lack of etiquette = ignorance
ignorance = bad at the pokah
bad at the pokah = more $$$ for you

therefore lack of etiquette should be welcomed at the poker table with open arms, all you need is a little bit of common sense and maybe some thick skin

There's certainly something to this, and I don't go on tilt about any of it. But I also think it's possible to gently educate the worst offenders without driving them from the game or tapping on the fishtank.

bops

ozpoker wrote: »

There's certainly something to this, and I don't go on tilt about any of it. But I also think it's possible to gently educate the worst offenders without driving them from the game or tapping on the fishtank.

from my experience, the worst offenders either do it on purpose, or are the most ignorant and therefore the hardest to educate...i see what you're saying though, but i just don't bother with them