Tulfarris Golf Club

Gabbo57

I'm playing in Tulfarris in Blessington tomorrow, just wondering has anyone played it before, not to sure what to expect, had some people say it's a brilliant course, some say the opposite!

C0SM0

Played there afew weeks ago, nice course, very well kept. Built around some of the Blessington lakes and there's a couple of small manmade ones thrown in for good measure. Had a very enjoyable round in a 3-ball. Some nice holes with great pisturesque views which added to the day. I'll definitely be playing it again in the future..

Gabbo57

C0SM0 wrote: »

Played there afew weeks ago, nice course, very well kept. Built around some of the Blessington lakes and there's a couple of small manmade ones thrown in for good measure. Had a very enjoyable round in a 3-ball. Some nice holes with great pisturesque views which added to the day. I'll definitely be playing it again in the future..

Is it flat or hilly? does it play long?

1916

Well maintained course (it was last Sept anyway),It's pretty flat. The course itself to me (as I'm not a huge hitter) plays long

Par 5 to start with then a nice Par 3 (man made water on left), followed by a shortish Par 4. The lakes don't really come into view until the 8th (maybe its the 9th). The 17th is a nice hole (dog left), you play approach over water and if like me, you've played to right of fairway, there is a good carry to make the green, although I'm sure for longish hitters its only a wedge!

1916

WHIP IT!

Whoever told you "the opposite" is talking rubbish - one of the nicest courses in the country if you ask me. Not hilly, no. Long enough by our standards I suppose.

C0SM0

It's undulating, but not too hilly at all. If you play often enough you wont even notice , If you're not a straight driver you can get into trouble though- water, long rough etc.
It's one of the better courses i've been on and definitely much better than some i've played. I don't wanna talk it up or down tbh cos people have different views on courses to meself but i hope you enjoy it as i did..

claiva

hi
I played it on friday. Excellent condition. Lovely course. Greens were quite slow and hairy though. It's not too long either. Some great holes on it.

Gabbo57

C0SM0 wrote: »

It's undulating, but not too hilly at all. If you play often enough you wont even notice , If you're not a straight driver you can get into trouble though- water, long rough etc.
It's one of the better courses i've been on and definitely much better than some i've played. I don't wanna talk it up or down tbh cos people have different views on courses to meself but i hope you enjoy it as i did..

I'm a fairly long and straight driver so should be okay.

Cheers lads, now i'm bloody dying to get out!!

I'll let you know how i get on.

copacetic

great course alright, can struggle a bit with the condition as it's location isn't ideal for grass growing, some of fairways can be very patchy, but some nice holes. It's not particularly long but can be a bit tricky and there are a couple of very awkward par 4s (10 and 18). The 10th is a difficult drive to hit the fairway on. You have to skirt the trees on the left or you will end up on the 12th totally blocked out. The 18th is a longish par 4 and with water all down the right, if you play too far left off tee you are left with a long second to a green with water all down one side. 6th is a nice par 3 downhill over a lake. As mentioned 17th is a short bit awkward par 4 also, iron off the tee as far left as you can to leave an easier approach across the lake.

All in all a nice course.

rigal

Having played it on numerous society outings and with friends it's one of my favourite courses.

I've heard pro's talk about courses that suit their eye and this one suits mine - even when I'm going through a bad patch I'll still play well there.

As a few posters have said there's a few holes to watch out for. Here are some of the rules that I have for myself when I'm playing there.

Hole 1 - Par 5 - never go for it in two as it's not worth the gamble. A decent drive and a lofted iron will put you in a good position to attack the pin with your third.

Hole 9 - Par 5 - dog leg right. I struggle to fade with my driver and as it's a very long par 5 (3 shotter as uphill) I hit a 3 wood off the tee.

Hole 10 - Par 4 - If you hit a driver straight you'll be in the trees/bunker/on the 12th fairway. I would always hit a fairway wood for position.

Hole 16 - Par 3 - usually take one extra club as it plays longer than it looks.

Hole 17 - Par 4 - no more than a 4/5 iron off the tee

Enjoy!

1916

Could be bad news for Tulfarris, gone in to receivership last Friday, as per SBP

Bankers move on two golf resorts
Sunday, February 15, 2009 By Ian Kehoe
Tulfarris House & Golf Resort, a 200acre development in Co Wicklow, went into receivership late on Friday night, after Anglo Irish Bank moved to protect its lendings. The development is backed by property developer Paddy Kelly and his family. Anglo is owed about €25 million in relation to the project at Blessington Lakes.

Separately, AIB has appointed a receiver to the €50 million Blarney Golf Resort in Co Cork. The bank is owed about €20 million and appointed a receiver late last week. Both Tulfarris and Blarney are continuing to trade.

The honorary secretary at Tulfarris wrote to members yesterday confirming that Anglo had installed Michael McAteer, a partner with accountant Grant Thornton, as receiver over two companies linked with the project, Comfort Hotel Holdings and Tulfarris Golf Services.

In addition to the championship golf course, Tulfarris also includes a 60bedroom hotel and leisure complex. McAteer said the premises would continue to trade as usual.

AIB has installed accountant Billy O’Riordan, a partner with PricewaterhouseCoopers in Dublin, as receiver over Kelcar Developments, which owns the Blarney golf development. Controlled by businessman Frank McCarthy, Blarney includes a championship golf course designed by John Daly, dozens of holiday cottages and a four-star hotel and conference centre.

Last September, the owners of the Blarney development put it on the market for €20 million. However, no sale was concluded.

O’Riordan is now managing the project on behalf of AIB and is assessing the best option to recover money for the bank. A trade sale is considered the preferred option by the receiver and the bank.

ShriekingSheet

1916 wrote: »

Could be bad news for Tulfarris, gone in to receivership last Friday, as per SBP

Yeah bad news indeed but it does mean they can keep trading. The receivership will keep the wolves from the door for now so if they can do some kind of green-fee/annual membership drive a-la Druids Heath there could be light at the end of the tunnel.

Purely my opinion, but I think the golf course/club suffered a little under the former ownership which seemed more interested in the hotel side of the operation. While the course itself is widely praised, it's seems a common theme among visitor's reports that the place is very quiet and doesn't seems to have much by way of a playing membership.

A good annual offer could generate some regular golfers, more green fees and a busier atmosphere which a track like that deserves to have.

Mister Sifter

Lesbians all over the country have their fingers crossed....

http://www.tulfarris.com/news/detail/l_cup_comes_to_tulfarris/

Mister Sifter

ShriekingSheet wrote: »

Purely my opinion, but I think the golf course/club suffered a little under the former ownership which seemed more interested in the hotel side of the operation. While the course itself is widely praised, it's seems a common theme among visitor's reports that the place is very quiet and doesn't seems to have much by way of a playing membership.

A good annual offer could generate some regular golfers, more green fees and a busier atmosphere which a track like that deserves to have.

Going by the website they introduced a €1500, no joining fee offer in January. That seems good value. I assume that examinership has been brought on more by the Anglo situation than the €1500 deal proving unsuccessful. But then, who knows.

Hopefully they can get out of this mess and keep going.

ShriekingSheet

Graeme1982 wrote: »

Going by the website they introduced a €1500, no joining fee offer in January. That seems good value. I assume that examinership has been brought on more by the Anglo situation than the €1500 deal proving unsuccessful. But then, who knows.

Hopefully they can get out of this mess and keep going.

Oh yes, I forgot they had that deal. There was someone on the board agonising over whether to join it or somewhere else (was it Uberwolf?). Wonder where they joined.

I have to say, I didn't hear much at all about people joining or even considering the Tulfaris offer of €1,500 - compared to the buzz around the DH offer at least. Strange because it's probably a shorter drive to TF for a lot of people and as roughly good a course. It would seem to me that they'll have to go lower to get cut-through.

Hobart

A group of us (16) played this last year in a Ryder Cup format (during the Ryder cup last year) and we found everything from the course/staff/food excellent. We stayed 2 nights, with 2 rounds of Golf, 2 * evening meal for about €380.

The one thing about the place, the rooms were absolutely huge. Each room was a suite, with it's own separate living area and kitchen. The place was also totally empty, bar a 12 ball society which came in on the Saturday. It would be a total shame, is the course were to be in real trouble, as I think it's one of the best courses in that area.

the lawman

Was thinking of joining this club. Gonna play it next weekend. Anyone know of the course and whether it's a good deal at 1K?

Cheers

Dr_Colossus

Hi Lawman, there's a slightly newer thread than this on Tulfarris somewhere. (Here's the other thread on Tulfarris http://boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2055694655&highlight=Tulfarris)

Anyway I'm in the same boat as yourself and played this course after two very wet weeks in Nov. I'd heard concerns about the drainage and general condition of the place during a wet winter so it was a good test. The course was in good condition, bit soggy on some of the tee boxes but between tee and green it was very firm. All the fairways had been heavily sanded and they advised they'd spent in the region of €80k the previous winter on drainage on some of the lower lying fairways. Greens were a bit on the slow side but normal for mid winter and were very true.

Having viewed similar courses and options I decided to join given that the 1k offer gave playing rights from Nov 2010 until Mar 2012 with full membership from Mar 2011 to Mar 2012. Bear in mind that on top of the €1k membership there's also a €100 bar levy and €59 for GUI levy and insurance (They still have to explain this €59 as GUI levy AFAIK is €19 and the insurance is €20)

Anyway the weekend I decided to join in Nov was the weekend it started snowing so the course was closed. Reception called me and all to confirm that the course was closed. With the snow then over the Christmas I decided to try and join again this weekend and had booked a tee time for Sun 16th Jan. However I got a call early Sun morning from reception saying they had torrential rain Sat night and had decided to close the course.

Was a bit gutted as yesterday turned out to be a fabulous day but I still intend to join. I haven't had a handicap in about 7 or 8 years so their offer of joining now and playing until their year officially commences in Mar is appealing as it'll give me a chance of sanding off some of the rust before receiving my handicap.

ShriekingSheet

the lawman wrote: »

Was thinking of joining this club. Gonna play it next weekend. Anyone know of the course and whether it's a good deal at 1K?

Cheers

Tulfarris is a class course. The greens can be hit and miss, but in general, the set-up is one of the best around.

My problem with joining would be that it's a bit of a ghost town. Timesheets at the weekend are notoriously quiet, and many of those who are around will be green fees etc, so there isn't much by way of members competitions.

If you're not getting any "club" or social elements for your 1k, would you not be better off just playing green fee golf for the year? A grand would go a long way.

the lawman

Thanks ShriekingSheet I guess I want to get a handicap as I don't have one. Thats the main driver really.

Thanks Dr Colossus I will bear all this in mind. I'll try play this weekend and I'll be asking about the members comps and how often they play etc etc

Dr_Colossus

When I was inquiring in Nov I think they said they had 150 members back then, granted it's not a big number but they ran member competitions every weekend with Sat being the busier of the two days. This time of year I think the competitions are pretty quite but the day I was out it was pretty busy although granted some of the time sheet may have been on green fees. During the competition year then also they run a golfer of the year competition and overall their website looks quite decent.
I think it's quite convenient not having a packed time sheet, no point paying big membership money and having to book your weekend time weeks in advance. For me anyway I think it's a plus having the flexibility of playing an impromptu round mid week if the occasion arises.

the lawman

Was speaking to them today and they said that they have put 85K into the drainage and that they are really happy with the results. As you said the comps pretty much go on through the whole year so it all sounds pretty good!

I'll play it this weeekend and see how it plays so.

Unglika Norse

the lawman wrote: »

Was speaking to them today and they said that they have put 85K into the drainage and that they are really happy with the results. As you said the comps pretty much go on through the whole year so it all sounds pretty good!

I'll play it this weeekend and see how it plays so.

Where did they get 85k to put into or was it the banks ?????

sky6

Tulffaris is a true championship course. Played it a few times and managing to shoot my best ever score for 9 holes. Having had a disastrous front nine holes
I challenged myself to play better on the back nine. I managed to shoot 38.
I certainly went home happy that day. But I do love the Course.

the lawman

Sky6 I hope that your 38 points was over the 18 holes rather than your very good back nine?!

What were you playing off?

Jimdagym

the lawman wrote: »

Sky6 I hope that your 38 points was over the 18 holes rather than your very good back nine?!

What were you playing off?

He didn't say points. He said that he shot 38.

markben

Hey Lads, I work in Tulfarris, it is a great course, the back nine and last three holes are amazing and i've only played it twice but i'm a big golfer so this year will hopefully get out more.

sky6

Hi All, I was playing off 17 at the time. Mind you I shot something like 60 for the front nine.
I had a similar experience in Druids Glen in a Corporate event. I was playing with a 2 and a 7 Handicapper in a tree ball. I shot 43 on the front nine. We stopped for a Burger at the ninth. It then started to rain, it then poured down on us for most of the back nine. But by then my score was ruined as I only scored 6 points on the back nine. Golf it's a crazy game, but I love it.

LouTul

Hi All

My name is Louise and I am the Sales Manager in Tulfarris. I came across the below posts and thought I would pass you on my contact details so if you had any queries regarding membership or the resort you can contact me.

My e-mail is [EMAIL="lwhitehead AT tulfarris.com"]lwhitehead@tulfarris.com[/EMAIL] and my mobile number is 045 867600.

Over the last two years we have undertaken a drainage project which will improve the course year on year. With a championship course, fantastic scenary and a great price you will find it hard to beat.

I hope you dont mind me posting but as you can see I am very fond of the place

thegen

I would take my mobile phone number down, not a good idea to have on public forum.

LouTul

Thanks TheGen it was my work number, but I will take your advice anyway

the lawman

I'm playing on Sunday Loutul with a friend and his teenage son. So far it has ticked all the right boxes and if the course plays well then you will have a couple, maybe more new members.

Speical mention to Norma in the pro-shop who has been very kind and very welcoming.

Dr_Colossus

the lawman wrote: »

Speical mention to Norma in the pro-shop who has been very kind and very welcoming.

+1 regarding Norma in the pro-shop, she's been fantastic on all my queries to date. Very helpful and welcoming as The Lawman stated above. I have decided to join after playing the course in Nov and comparing it to similar options around but on both occasions that I was free to travel down and sign up the weather shut the course. On both occasions though Normal called me prior to traveling explaining the situation and saving me a trip. She's a credit to the club especially when she's the first point of contact.

the lawman

In my mind a huge reason whether to join a club or not is the friendliness of the staff. If the rest of the Tullfarris staff are as welcoming as Norma I will be signing up on Monday!!

A lot of love here for Norma and Tullfarris and hopefully rightly so..

LouTul

Thank you all for your kind comments Norma is a GEM and we are so lucky to have her!

I hope you all enjoy your games and become members and if I can help you with anything at all drop me a mail to sales@tulfarris.com

Unglika Norse

I just cannot understand how people who love this game can join any course that is in receivership and is and has been using that position to undercut it’s neighboring clubs,

Unlike in the rules of golf which we play and follow it seems that etiquette does not come into the equation.

Jimdagym

Unglika Norse wrote: »

I just cannot understand how people who love this game can join any course that is in receivership and is and has been using that position to undercut it’s neighboring clubs,

Unlike in the rules of golf which we play and follow it seems that etiquette does not come into the equation.

It's a recession. People will follow the value (as seen above) be that as green fees or membership.

(not a member, btw).

the lawman

Maybe the neighbouring clubs are charging too much? Do you honestly think any club wants to be in receivership? Do you think the people who work there like that their jobs are not secure anymore?

Clubs have been charging crazy and disgusting money to keep themselves exclusive for years and years so now they have to re- address their tactics. Forgive me if I don't feel any sympathy.

So save me your morality lesson as for me with a young family value is what I'm looking for.

themaddog1

the lawman wrote: »

Maybe the neighbouring clubs are charging too much? Do you honestly think any club wants to be in receivership? Do you think the people who work there like that their jobs are not secure anymore?

Clubs have been charging crazy and disgusting money to keep themselves exclusive for years and years so now they have to re- address their tactics. Forgive me if I don't feel any sympathy.

So save me your morality lesson as for me with a young family value is what I'm looking for.

Tulfarris have been in receivership for two and a half years. The club pay the receiver on a monthly basis as there are no guarantees they will be in existence next month or any time in the forseeable future. Whilst in receivership they don't have to meet their repayments to their creditors, unlike the clubs that have been properly run, therefore it is no longer a level playing field.
Tulfarris is a lovely lay out. However it certainly isn't in the condition it once was. The greens are no longer of a championship standard while the bunkers are a joke. There are still major drainage issues despite the money the receiver spent last year. The club will only remain open as long as the receiver feels there is a possibility of the development beind sold or a major investor coming on board. Personally I would prefer to join a club with a more secure future.
There are other clubs along the N81 that offer equally good value, sometimes better value. South County, Blessington Lakes, Rathsallagh and Baltinglass are all options for people who don't want to throw their hard earned money at a zombie club. Ask members of Turvey what that's like.

the lawman

I heven't joined yet and all your negative things you mention above are just your opinion. I'll make my own judgement on the course when I play it.

As a note I have been told by Tullfarris that they have a deal in place with the receiver that any decision will made in mid-2012 so I'm not sure where you get the notion that it's month to month apart from the fact it helps your argument.

themaddog1

the lawman wrote: »

As a note I have been told by Tullfarris that they have a deal in place with the receiver that any decision will made in mid-2012 so I'm not sure where you get the notion that it's month to month apart from the fact it helps your argument.

The club have being paying the receiver on a monthly basis. Every month the monthly portion of the membership fees is handed over to the reveiver (unless it has changed this year). It's nothing to do with my argument, it is a fact.
If you think that the receiver will guarantee to keep the place open until mid 2012 if they don't think they can sell it as a going concern or get a major investor you are mistaken. The receiver will make whatever decision that is required to get the best possible deal for the banks and the members won't be very high on their priority list.

the lawman

themaddog1 wrote: »

The club have being paying the receiver on a monthly basis. Every month the monthly portion of the membership fees is handed over to the reveiver (unless it has changed this year). It's nothing to do with my argument, it is a fact.
If you think that the receiver will guarantee to keep the place open until mid 2012 if they don't think they can sell it as a going concern or get a major investor you are mistaken. The receiver will make whatever decision that is required to get the best possible deal for the banks and the members won't be very high on their priority list.

If you have first hand knowledge on this then fair enough I'm just going on what I've been told by someone in the club; that the bank has agreed to run the course until a review is held in mid 2012.

I'm sure there is no exact textbook way a bank and receiver work these things. I'm not sure how you can call it a fact if you have no connection with the bank, receiver or the club.

Either way I'm willing to try the course and if I like it and the club can answer some of these questions I;m willing to take them on their word.

themaddog1

the lawman wrote: »

If you have first hand knowledge on this then fair enough I'm just going on what I've been told by someone in the club; that the bank has agreed to run the course until a review is held in mid 2012.

I'm sure there is no exact textbook way a bank and receiver work these things. I'm not sure how you can call it a fact if you have no connection with the bank, receiver or the club.

Either way I'm willing to try the course and if I like it and the club can answer some of these questions I;m willing to take them on their word.

How you choose to spend your money is obviously your own perogative.
My difficulty with the first of your posts that I responded to was that you slagged off other clubs who have run their businesses properly and who re pay their creditors.
If people choose to extol the virtues of Tulfarris fair enough but give the full picture. The development is in receivership for a reason. It has been in receivership for over two years. At some stage the bank will have to make a hard nosed business decision and if they don't have a buyer or investor they will cut their losses as they have done in other courses.

the lawman

themaddog1 wrote: »

How you choose to spend your money is obviously your own perogative.
My difficulty with the first of your posts that I responded to was that you slagged off other clubs who have run their businesses properly and who re pay their creditors.
If people choose to extol the virtues of Tulfarris fair enough but give the full picture. The development is in receivership for a reason. It has been in receivership for over two years. At some stage the bank will have to make a hard nosed business decision and if they don't have a buyer or investor they will cut their losses as they have done in other courses.

I didn't intend to slag off any other club, was merely replying to some other poster who was trying to make some ethical reason for people not to join a receiver owned club. I take your point and I can see how it could have been construed.

I was defending a decision by anybody, who has been excluded from joining clubs over the years, to now join a club. Clubs, and not all clubs, have obviously used the 'good times' to ask ridiculous fees and now things are levelling off.

That poster was trying to put some sort of moral stigma on me joining a receiver owned club which I found amusing and wrong.

themaddog1

Tulfarris were one of the clubs who were charging crazy fees. Not too long ago they had an entrance fee of 20,000 euro. They ran their business badly and went under. Now they can offer deals because they don't have to make repayments on their loans. There isn't a club in the country that wouldn't like to spend 80,000 euro on their course, something Tulfaris were able to do last year because the bank allowed them to do so to make the place more attractive to a potential investor.
There are many golf courses struggling in the current climate.However most clubs are offering good value at the moment and I would personally prefer to support a solvent club. Some of the clubs who are currently solvent will be be dragged under by the zombie clubs because it isn't a level playing field. Eventually many of the courses in receivership will be forced to close leaving fewer courses for golfers to choose from. Then fees will gradually creep up again.
Trying to save zombie banks helped destroy the Irish economy, trying to save zombie clubs will only have a detrimental effect on Irish golf.

the lawman

themaddog1 wrote: »

Tulfarris were one of the clubs who were charging crazy fees. Not too long ago they had an entrance fee of 20,000 euro. They ran their business badly and went under. Now they can offer deals because they don't have to make repayments on their loans. There isn't a club in the country that wouldn't like to spend 80,000 euro on their course, something Tulfaris were able to do last year because the bank allowed them to do so to make the place more attractive to a potential investor.
There are many golf courses struggling in the current climate.However most clubs are offering good value at the moment and I would personally prefer to support a solvent club. Some of the clubs who are currently solvent will be be dragged under by the zombie clubs because it isn't a level playing field. Eventually many of the courses in receivership will be forced to close leaving fewer courses for golfers to choose from. Then fees will gradually creep up again.
Trying to save zombie banks helped destroy the Irish economy, trying to save zombie clubs will only have a detrimental effect on Irish golf.

I totally see your point and I wasn't aware that Tullfarris was so much to join. My point still stands though reagrding the clubs need to level out everything and realise that the days of 20K 10K membership are over. Unfortuantely some clubs will enter receivership like Tull but other clubs need to look at their mistakes and act accordingly. If they are well run they will survive. I know I'm being very general in my assumptions but you can see my point.

I agree that the clubs could follow Tull and that the fees will creep up but if you look at another way; more and more people can actually get into golf now and join clubs rather then being green-fee'ers so demand may increase ensuring clubs survive. I know I wouldn't be joining anywhere if I was playing 10 years ago and I'd imagine there are thousands who are in the same boat.

markben

Hi Lawman, if you are coming down to play on Sunday just be weary about the frost that is forecasted. Norma will probably text or call but just to give you the heads up as the frost has been brutal here all week..
Cheers Mark

Unglika Norse

the lawman wrote: »

That poster was trying to put some sort of moral stigma on me joining a receiver owned club which I found amusing and wrong.

I hold the opinion that, there is something wrong with clubs that are in receivership being allowed to trade without paying off creditors, furthermore I think they should lose their GUI affiliation rights as long as they are in receivership, albeit that this would be harsh on existing members.

Bear in mind that most of the courses that are in trouble are the so called resort or proprioty owned courses built for a diferent business model.

That the comment gave you some amusement is good as it obviously gave you a bit of a laugh and brightened your day.

{quote= themaddog1}
Trying to save zombie banks helped destroy the Irish economy, trying to save zombie clubs will only have a detrimental effect on Irish golf.

Again in my opinion well put and correct and right.

the lawman

Read my last post where I speak about the inverse on a bad outcome for Irish in as much as courses coming down from historically high prices to a lower level will attract so many golfers.

Surely that's a good thing!

As to my amusement from your post thanks but it was more surprise than happines. You blame the golf clubs and that they should lose their GUI and you also have a grudge on people like me just looking for value.

rafared

Unglika Norse wrote: »

I hold the opinion that, there is something wrong with clubs that are in receivership being allowed to trade without paying off creditors, furthermore I think they should lose their GUI affiliation rights as long as they are in receivership, albeit that this would be harsh on existing members.

Bear in mind that most of the courses that are in trouble are the so called resort or proprioty owned courses built for a diferent business model.

That the comment gave you some amusement is good as it obviously gave you a bit of a laugh and brightened your day.

{quote= themaddog1}
Trying to save zombie banks helped destroy the Irish economy, trying to save zombie clubs will only have a detrimental effect on Irish golf.

Again in my opinion well put and correct and right.

You realy seem to have an axe to grind with these zombie clubs. Last week you were making tha same point about not supporting clubs like Tulfarris in the thread where the guy was asking about his Golfing trips buisness. It is your right, and I respect it as such, not to play or pay anything to these clubs just as its mine or anyones to avail of whatever best value deal they can get on membership or a greenfee or an overnight deal or whatever. I would also add that if you had the misfortune to pay a large joining fee to one of these clubs you might have a differnet outlook on keeping them afloat rather that letting them go under taking your money with them. The suggestion of removing their GUI affiliation is just crazy in my opinion.

Unglika Norse

Attracting more golfers into clubs is good if the club is sustainable. Prices in clubs rose slowly over many years and were reflected in most cases in the improved facilities that were made available to club members.

But fees accelerated hugely when resort courses came into the equation, obviously buoyed by the fact that there were many people waiting to pay huge green fees in Celtic tiger Ireland to play these courses, this in turn allowed and I would say caused members clubs to take the opportunity to rise their fees beyond what was actually needed, but therein lay the crux, if an existing course had a lower say green fee than another club it was considered by many to be, by default an inferior course.

This expenditure over many years was again reflected in the fees charged by persons willing to pay and join such a club.

I stand to be corrected but I don't know, other than Turvey, (who's members took over a very difficult position) and Knockanally who have resolved their position of any members club in the country that are in receivership.

I certainly don't hold a grudge against you or anyone else who is looking for value for money, but it is my opinion that such value is available in a sustainable club and I will further quantify that by saying a members owned club as again I believe that very few of the Propriority owned courses give much heed to their membership except for the fact that they give credence to the course by allowing it through them (the club) to become affiliated and as can be seen by the number of clubs, (currently as many as 25 I believe but cannot confirm) in Leinster alone that are being run by financial institutions, with virtually no hope of paying the outstanding debts, which are currently being picked up and paid for by guess who,,

By the way as Rafa has just posted, I have not paid any large entry fee to any of the clubs with which I have been involved over many years, neither am I owed any monies by any golf club, the point being that it is most likely that these clubs will go sooner rather than later and monies paid are I’m afraid already lost,and some of them are costing me on a week to week basis, think bail out, I just have a thing about what I see as fair and right for all golf clubs to compete on a level pitch.