BMW M Series Cars

bottletops

Hey folks.

Just a quick question.. Do anyone know if all M series cars have the quad exhaust system... all though the years not just current models.

Anan1

No, the earlier cars were hand-built and far more discreet.

bennyx_o

Nope, they didn't.

The older M3 (Not so sure on the model number) had a twin exit on the left side, as did the older M5 IIRC

Eoin

Anan1 wrote: »

No, the earlier cars were hand-built and far more discreet.

Less "vulgar"?

Anan1

eoin_s wrote: »

Less "vulgar"?

You know how I see these things...;)

T J Hooker

bennyx_o wrote: »

Nope, they didn't.

The older M3 (Not so sure on the model number) had a twin exit on the left side, as did the older M5 IIRC

E36 I presume

Fey!

Quad exhaust came in on the e39 M5 in 1999, and continued on the e46 M3.

Anan1

Anan1 wrote: »

No, the earlier cars were hand-built and far more discreet.

Yeah I would agree. I'm a big fan of the M cars but they gradualy lost their Q car appeal. The new M3 looks almost completely different to to base model.

Its like a normal 3 series on roids.

Eoin

ronoc wrote: »

Yeah I would agree. I'm a big fan of the M cars but they gradualy lost their Q car appeal. The new M3 looks almost completely different to to base model.

Its like a normal 3 series on roids.

I would say that the new M3 looks closer to the standard coupe than the e46 did.

The e39 M5 also looks quite close to the standard M-Tech 5 series - I think the only differences are the front bumper, alloys and quad exhaust.

Victor_M

ronoc wrote: »

Yeah I would agree. I'm a big fan of the M cars but they gradualy lost their Q car appeal. The new M3 looks almost completely different to to base model.

Its like a normal 3 series on roids.

I personally don't see the appeal of the 'Q' car factor some of you on here seem to adore.

If I spent 115 grand on a car I would like to think it looks a little different to the 1.6 base model.

I don't 'get' the sense of smug well being tearing off the lights in an 'understated' car leaving boy racers behind, that some of you on here cherish so much

I (IMHO of course) see understated as another way to describe bland.

The M cars have discrete spoilers, slightly flared wheel arches, slight bonnet bulge, the 4 pipes at the back are the most shouty part of the car, but every modern performance car from Germany these days has too.

Cyrus

Anan1 wrote: »

No, the earlier cars were hand-built and far more discreet.

yeah, and slower :pac::p

to be fair the e46 m3, to the casual observer is just a sport kitted 3 series, the flared arches were subtle enough and the grills and exhaust aside, little else to give it away

the e39 m5 even more so,

i think the e60 m5 is pretty discrete too, the e92 m3 being a louder car, but thats what the buyers want i should think, the m3 is a younger persons cars and who would spunk 120k on one if it looked like an mtec 318

rebel.ranter

Cyrus wrote: »

the m3 is a younger persons cars and who would spunk 120k on one if it looked like an mtec 318

Was the e30 M3 not a blistered arched, spoilered up e30? Completely diffferent to the standard car? Or what about the original CSL "batmobile", it had some crazy bodywork, including some unusual aerdynamics:


http://www.e-24.ru/eng/theory/history/coupe/

I think a lot of motoring critics took issue with the e34, e39, e36, e46 ///M machines for not being more audacious than their standard stable mates.

The ///M machines should a bit more "vulgar".

Eoin

rebel.ranter wrote: »

Was the e30 M3 not a blistered acrhed, spoilered up e30? Completely diffferent to the standard car?

I was going to say that as well - while it wasn't as refined as the newer M cars, it certainly didn't look "stock". I do like the idea of a real q-car, but at the same time get very sick of the inverted snobbery you see here. Terms like "vulgar" and "new money" get very boring quickly. Personally I think the Mitsubishi Evo is one of the ugliest performance cars as standard, but that never seems to get a mention.

Cyrus

rebel.ranter wrote: »

Was the e30 M3 not a blistered acrhed, spoilered up e30? Completely diffferent to the standard car?

I think a lot of motoring critics took issue with the e34, e39, e36, e46 ///M machines for not being more audacious than their standard stable mates.

yep it was, was gonna mention that

rebel.ranter

Or see CSL above, now if that isn't loud I don't know what is!

dahamsta

I'll take the Q car over the blinged-up wankmobile any day thanks. No doubt the E60 is a rocket, but day to day I'd much prefer a debadged E34 or Lotus Carlton.

Cyrus

dahamsta wrote: »

I'll take the Q car over the blinged-up wankmobile any day thanks. No doubt the E60 is a rocket, but day to day I'd much prefer a debadged E34 or Lotus Carlton.

blinged up wankmobile riiiiight

id prefer to be in an e60 day to day what with its climate control, sat nav, tv, infinitely adjustable seats, if youd rather be in some old Vauxhall more power to you

Real Q car alright what with the bespoke rims, big spoiler and bonnet vents :rolleyes:

Anan1

Victor_M wrote: »

I personally don't see the appeal of the 'Q' car factor some of you on here seem to adore.

If I spent 115 grand on a car I would like to think it looks a little different to the 1.6 base model.

I don't 'get' the sense of smug well being tearing off the lights in an 'understated' car leaving boy racers behind, that some of you on here cherish so much

I (IMHO of course) see understated as another way to describe bland.

The M cars have discrete spoilers, slightly flared wheel arches, slight bonnet bulge, the 4 pipes at the back are the most shouty part of the car, but every modern performance car from Germany these days has too.

Q cars have a much more practical appeal for me in that they attract a lot less attention both from the law and from other drivers.

Cyrus

so whats a Q car then? the lotus above is being touted as one, it clearly isnt

Anan1

Cyrus wrote: »

so whats a Q car then? the lotus above is being touted as one, it clearly isnt

Two good examples are the E28 BMW M5 and the W124 Mercedes 500E. Oh, and my new Forester!;)

Cyrus

no point talking about 20 year old bmws, im talking current cars here

the forrester isnt really, everyone knows its an imreza on stilts, hence the bonnet vent

dahamsta

Anan1 wrote: »

Q cars have a much more practical appeal for me in that they attract a lot less attention both from the law and from other drivers.

Precisely.

dahamsta

Cyrus wrote: »

so whats a Q car then? the lotus above is being touted as one, it clearly isnt

How so? It's hardly bling.

MarkN

Anan1 wrote: »

Q cars have a much more practical appeal for me in that they attract a lot less attention both from the law and from other drivers.

I think it's more about the person behind the wheel than the car that attracts "the law" ??

I've never had a guard say, eh, flash car, get out while I fist ya for drugs!?

And any muppet that attempts to take on an E92 unless he's driving something equally as insane doesn't deserve the petrol you'd waste making a show of him!

I think the S5 is more subtle but then again, it's not an M3.

Eoin

dahamsta wrote: »

How so? It's hardly bling.

What do you mean by "bling"? It's certainly not subtle anyway.

A q-car for me is generally a very subtle saloon that goes like the clappers. Edit: or even better, an estate.

Anan1

Cyrus wrote: »

no point talking about 20 year old bmws, im talking current cars here

the forrester isnt really, everyone knows its an imreza on stilts, hence the bonnet vent

I was only kidding about the Forester, it's not even that fast, just unlikely. The trend in recent years seems to have been away from Q-cars, even 1.8 litre Audi & Mercedes have fat wheels and double exhausts now. I don't know if you could even order something like a BMW 335i saloon without the M-pack without going to individual?

Cyrus

dahamsta wrote: »

How so? It's hardly bling.

bespoke rims, bonnet vents, large rear spoilers and front splitters, how in gods name is that a q car and an e60 m5 is not

Cyrus

Anan1 wrote: »

I was only kidding about the Forester, it's not even that fast, just unlikely. The trend in recent years seems to have been away from Q-cars, even 1.8 litre Audi & Mercedes have fat wheels and double exhausts now. I don't know if you could even order something like a BMW 335i saloon without the M-pack without going to individual?

0-60 in 6.3s for the forrester, plenty quick

course you can get the 335i in se trim

Victor_M

Anan1 wrote: »

Q cars have a much more practical appeal for me in that they attract a lot less attention both from the law and from other drivers.

Your driving will determine how much attention you attract from the law, the car has nothing to do with it, it doesn't matter if you are behind the wheel of a Micra or a Lambo.

As for the attention you get from other drivers;

A) you have always maintained that you couldn't care less what others think about your car, and

A Forrester with 2 big fairly noisy exhausts and a huge gaping air vent on the bonnet is hardly discreet.

Anan1

MarkN wrote: »

I think it's more about the person behind the wheel than the car that attracts "the law" ??

Not really, some cars blend in much better than others. If you're going to do the hooligan and don't want to get pulled then that's the kind of car you want.

Johnny Utah

eoin_s wrote: »

A q-car for me is generally a very subtle saloon that goes like the clappers.

M3 4-door saloon it is then so:D


http://uk.images.search.yahoo.com/images/view?back=http%3A%2F%2Fuk.images.search.yahoo.com%2Fsearch%2Fimages%3Fp%3Dm3%2Bsaloon%26fr%3Dyfp-t-501%26ei%3Dutf-8%26js%3D1%26x%3Dwrt&w=500&h=333&imgurl=static.flickr.com%2F3130%2F2344564586_ae368a006c.jpg&rurl=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.flickr.com%2Fphotos%2Fsko11ie%2F2344564586%2F&size=120.5kB&name=2344564586_ae368a006c.jpg&p=m3+saloon&type=JPG&oid=c15fe8ea52033eb4&fusr=%2Bsko11ie&tit=2344564586_ae368a006c.jpg&hurl=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.flickr.com%2Fphotos%2Fsko11ie%2F&no=14&sigr=11gbcau7o&sigi=11g3ujo3a&sigb=12si0jlgr&sigh=1155du074&tt=220

D20903

dahamsta wrote: »

I'll take the Q car over the blinged-up wankmobile any day thanks. No doubt the E60 is a rocket, but day to day I'd much prefer a debadged E34 or Lotus Carlton.

Lotus Carlton a Q car.........get real - its more 'vulgar' than anything else mentioned here so far!

MarkN

Anan1 wrote: »

I was only kidding about the Forester, it's not even that fast, just unlikely. The trend in recent years seems to have been away from Q-cars, even 1.8 litre Audi & Mercedes have fat wheels and double exhausts now. I don't know if you could even order something like a BMW 335i saloon without the M-pack without going to individual?

SE no problem, you'll have to get 17"s though to clear the discs.

D20903

Anan1 wrote: »

Two good examples are the E28 BMW M5 and the W124 Mercedes 500E. Oh, and my new Forester!;)

Who exactly is a Forester a 'Q' car to? Nice car by all means but hardly a 'wolf in sheeps clothing' is it?

Eoin

Johnny Utah wrote: »

M3 4-door saloon it is then so:D


http://uk.images.search.yahoo.com/images/view?back=http%3A%2F%2Fuk.images.search.yahoo.com%2Fsearch%2Fimages%3Fp%3Dm3%2Bsaloon%26fr%3Dyfp-t-501%26ei%3Dutf-8%26js%3D1%26x%3Dwrt&w=500&h=333&imgurl=static.flickr.com%2F3130%2F2344564586_ae368a006c.jpg&rurl=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.flickr.com%2Fphotos%2Fsko11ie%2F2344564586%2F&size=120.5kB&name=2344564586_ae368a006c.jpg&p=m3+saloon&type=JPG&oid=c15fe8ea52033eb4&fusr=%2Bsko11ie&tit=2344564586_ae368a006c.jpg&hurl=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.flickr.com%2Fphotos%2Fsko11ie%2F&no=14&sigr=11gbcau7o&sigi=11g3ujo3a&sigb=12si0jlgr&sigh=1155du074&tt=220

Yes please! Compare that with a 320, and it doesn't look too different:
http://i6.ebayimg.com/02/i/000/e0/a4/95c0_1.JPG

Anan1

Victor_M wrote: »

Your driving will determine how much attention you attract from the law, the car has nothing to do with it, it doesn't matter if you are behind the wheel of a Micra or a Lambo..

With respect, Victor, that is absolute rubbish and you know it. Until recently i've been running an 01 Forester and a 911 convertible - I saw it every day.

Victor_M wrote: »

As for the attention you get from other drivers;

A) you have always maintained that you couldn't care less what others think about your car, and.

I'll make an exception for the Gardai.;)

Victor_M wrote: »

A Forrester with 2 big fairly noisy exhausts and a huge gaping air vent on the bonnet is hardly discreet.

A Forester has one exhaust, and it's quiet. You don't really notice the vent that much on a sandy beige car. I'd prefer if it wasn't there but hey, somebody has to feed the intercooler.

Anan1

D20903 wrote: »

Who exactly is a Forester a 'Q' car to? Nice car by all means but hardly a 'wolf in sheeps clothing' is it?

Wink means joke.

Eoin

Anan1 wrote: »

Wink means joke.

Yeah, but you use it quite often, so it's hard to tell!

R.O.R

De-Badge one of these puppies and I think you've the ultimate Q-Car
http://www.carzone.ie/new-cars/BMW/5-Series/550I-SE-TOURING-AUTO/765485120080401/

Based on the wheel/tyre size listed, I'd be surprised if there are visual differences from a 523i.

Anan1

eoin_s wrote: »

Yeah, but you use it quite often, so it's hard to tell!

That's because I spend a lot of time in that grey area between absolutely serious and absolutely not! Although, to be serious, the Forester is a bit of a Q-car in the sense that the gap between percieved and actual performance is quite large.

Victor_M

Anan1 wrote: »

With respect, Victor, that is absolute rubbish and you know it. Until recently i've been running an 01 Forester and a 911 convertible - I saw it every day.

I'll make an exception for the Gardai.;)

A Forester has one exhaust, and it's quiet. You don't really notice the vent that much on a sandy beige car. I'd prefer if it wasn't there but hey, somebody has to feed the intercooler.

Well I've been driving an M3 for 2 1/2 years and I've never even once gotten a sideways look from the guards other than at a check point when one of them complimented it. I'm no saint either I just pick and choose my hooligan moments carefully and hence have no points still (jasus talk about jinxing myself:D)

Even the attention it occasionally attracts from other drivers tends to be from blokes who would know the difference between it and a normal 3 series, just as I'd be able to differentiate your car from the standard one from a mile away.

Anan1

Victor_M wrote: »

Well I've been driving an M3 for 2 1/2 years and I've never even once gotten a sideways look from the guards other than at a check point when one of them complimented it. I'm no saint either I just pick and choose my hooligan moments carefully and hence have no points still (jasus talk about jinxing myself:D)

Even the attention it occasionally attracts from other drivers tends to be from blokes who would know the difference between it and a normal 3 series, just as I'd be able to differentiate your car from the standard one from a mile away.

The only things I can think of are that your car isn't that in-your-face? Or maybe you don't drive that hard? Or maybe you've just been lucky? Whatever it is, long may it last. Personally though, i'll take anonymous every time.

Eoin

Anan1 wrote: »

The only things I can think of are that your car isn't that in-your-face?

That's the point I've been trying to make, if it is an e46 M3 that Victor drives.

D20903

Anan1 wrote: »

The only things I can think of are that your car isn't that in-your-face? Or maybe you don't drive that hard? Or maybe you've just been lucky? Whatever it is, long may it last. Personally though, i'll take anonymous every time.

Seriously, you should show a picture of an M3 & a Forester Turbo to someone with no idea about cars and ask them which of the 2 cars is more 'in your face' - I guarantee you that it will be the Forester.

The E46 M3 is a very 'anonymous' car to 99% of people - far less so than the E30 M3.

Anan1

D20903 wrote: »

Seriously, you should show a picture of an M3 & a Forester Turbo to someone with no idea about cars and ask them which of the 2 cars is more 'in your face' - I guarantee you that it will be the Forester.

I think you're missing the point, a JCB is more in-your-face than either! An M3 looks like a fast car (although granted it doesn't, to the untutored eye, look as fast as it actually is). A Forester doesn't look like it could, should, or would go very fast at all.

D20903

[/quote]A Forester doesn't look like it could, should, or would go very fast at all.[/quote]

A Forester is not very fast.

Anan1

D20903 wrote: »

A Forester is not very fast.

How would you define fast?

booooonzo

Seems fast to me, fair enough its the sti version but still...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x18goizbqs4

D20903

Anan1 wrote: »

How would you define fast?

A Forester is a quick car by all means - and faster than the average car - but its not a fast car.

Anan1

D20903 wrote: »

A Forester is a quick car by all means - and faster than the average car - but its not a fast car.

I think this would be a lot easier if you could read what I posted. A Q-car is a car that goes a lot harder than one might expect from looking at it. A 911 with a 4 second 0-100km/h time is not a Q-car, because it looks very fast. A Forester with a 6 second 0-100km/h time is a Q-car because it looks like a bread van.

Eoin

Anan1 wrote: »

An M3 looks like a fast car (although granted it doesn't, to the untutored eye, look as fast as it actually is).

Anan1 wrote: »

. A Q-car is a car that goes a lot harder than one might expect from looking at it.

So, an M3 is close to a Q-car by your own definition? Maybe not, as it still looks quick to look at it, but I still maintain that it's far from vulgar or in your face.