Electricians to ballot on industrial action

fishdog

What are your thoughts please on the article below form the RTE news website??? As you can see this may affect many other sectors that had wage agreements negociated in the same way.


Thursday, 19 June 2008 21:40

Over 10,000 electricians nationwide are to be balloted for industrial action in a row over pay.

The decision was taken this evening by the Technical Engineering and Electrical Union that represents electricians.

The dispute centres on a High Court challenge to the system of setting electricians' pay that has delayed payment of a wage increase.

AdvertisementSince 1990, employer and union representatives have agreed electricians' wages and conditions in a legally binding Registered Employment Agreement approved by the Labour Court.

However, two new bodies claiming to represent substantial numbers of contractors have said the REA process is unfair.

National Electrical Contractors Ireland and another group of independent contractors say they were not allowed to take part in negotiating the latest 5% pay rise.

But the employers groups who negotiated the deal - the AECI and the ECA - say that they represent contractors employing most electricians.

On Friday, the High Court granted 460 named contractors an injunction preventing the Labour Court from holding a hearing last Monday on the pay rise.

The matter returns to the High Court on 24 June.

In the meantime, the 5% wage increase due to the electricians will not be paid.

The TEEU ballot of its 10,000 members will take a couple of weeks.

If the electrical contractors' challenge to the REA system succeeds, it could affect hundreds of thousands of workers in other sectors, whose wages and conditions are set in the same way.

thecribber

A far as I can see from the website www.neci.ie the guys who claim to repersent most electricians really do not. For any REA to work it seems to me that all parties must truly reperesent the majority.

eoghan.geraghty

The guys who you say claim to represent most electricians do not claim this, they claim to represent the employers of most of the electricians.
I predict turbulent times ahead as a power struggle looms between EPACE,ECA,AECI,TEEU and NERA over the ENJIC agreements, now with NECI in there too its gonna be a long acronym filled summer:D

thecribber

I am an electrician myself and consider myself lucky to still have a job. Last year we had 25 lads working with us now we have 10. The boss says if the wages go up he will close the company as he has had to drop prices to get work. I would prefer to get out of the CWPS pension and save myself €30 a week as I think it is bad value for money.

fishdog

If I was working as an electrician again I am sure I would be pushing hard for an increase. It is a tough job that make you think and requires you to keep learning if you want to do well.

Having said this I think electricans wages have become unsustainable. The rate is such that encourages people to employ someone unqualified to get the job done becuse electricians wages are simply too expensive.

I think there are bleak times ahead for electricians:(

thecribber

I know who AECI, ECA, TEEU,and the new NECI are but can anyone tell me who are EPACE ??????????? and what do they do ??????

PM1001

fishdog wrote: »

If I was working as an electrician again I am sure I would be pushing hard for an increase. It is a tough job that make you think and requires you to keep learning if you want to do well.

Having said this I think electricans wages have become unsustainable. The rate is such that encourages people to employ someone unqualified to get the job done becuse electricians wages are simply too expensive.

I think there are bleak times ahead for electricians:(

Understood / But the reality is that an average week a sparks comes out with 29 eur after tax with the pay increase.
If a 2 week strike was to happen thats a loss of about 1600 eur it would take almost 2 years to get back this loss with the increase.
Striking is a silly option there are more ways to skin a cat!!

fishdog

But the reality is that an average week a sparks comes out with 29 eur after tax with the pay increase.

29 euro a week??? What do you mean?

If a 2 week strike was to happen thats a loss of about 1600 eur it would take almost 2 years to get back this loss with the increase.

Assuming that they do no work on the side while on strike you are correct. I never suggested going on strike, I had to do it once (Tallagh hospital) and I would hate to ever do it again.

Striking is a silly option

Agreed, but it is not up to me!

Stradbrook

EPACE are a private limited company set up to police the REA. The company was set up by the 3 parties who are signatories to the REA (Registered Employment Agreement) namely the TEEU the ECA (employer) and the ECA (employer) The two employer groups represent approxomatley 400 contractors in an industry where its estimated there are over 4,000 Electrical Contracting Companies.

They are funded by levies collected and passed on to them by the pension company CWPS .38cent employee, .38cent employer per week.

Epace Limited filed a profit in 2006 of €76,536 which brought their balance to a total of €722,192.00! and thats after admin costs. They claim on their filed accounts to be a non profit company.

The .38 cent levy is not mandatory for either employees or employers, however CWPS dont tell you this when you sign up, but if you read the REA there is no mention of this deduction.

According to EPACE's own filled accounts both the TEEU, the AECI and the ECA draw funds from EPACE Limited for admin, secaterial, and inspection costs. See 2005 accounts below

Included in Legal and Professional fees are amounts of €13,500 charged by the T.E.E.U. €8,000 by A.E.C.I. and €4,000 by E.C.A in respect of administration and secretarial expenses.
During the year the following amounts were charged in respect of Inspection fees, €9,500 to T.E.E.U. and €2,750 to A.E.C.I.


In May 2007 EPACE Limited filed an amendment to their articles of association which gives the Company permission to give themselves gratuities, bonuses and pensions, see extract below.


(I) To grant pensions, allowances, gratuities and bonuses to officers, ex officers, employees of the Company or its predecessors in business or the dependants or connections of such persons, to establish and maintain or concur in establishing and maintaining trusts, funds or schemes (whether contributory or non- contributory) with a view to providing pensions or other benefits for any such persons
as aforasaid charitable funds or institutions, the support of which may, in the opinion of the Directors, be calculated directly or indirectly to benefit the Company or its employees, and to institute or maintain any club or other establishment or profit

Maybe after reading the above you could be forgiven for thinking this REA for the Electrical Industry is a bit more than about Electricians wages, with profits like EPACE are making who involved in that company would want to see a more transperent REA in operation???????.

Check out the CRO site for more information, makes for very interesting reading.

Stradbrook

EPACE Limited

---

EPACE are a private limited company set up to police the REA. The company was set up by the 3 parties who are signatories to the REA (Registered Employment Agreement) namely the TEEU the ECA (employer) and the ECA (employer) The two employer groups represent approxomatley 400 contractors in an industry where its estimated there are over 4,000 Electrical Contracting Companies.

They are funded by levies collected and passed on to them by the pension company CWPS .38cent employee, .38cent employer per week.

Epace Limited filed a profit in 2006 of €76,536 which brought their balance to a total of €722,192.00! and thats after admin costs. They claim on their filed accounts to be a non profit company.

The .38 cent levy is not mandatory for either employees or employers, however CWPS dont tell you this when you sign up, but if you read the REA there is no mention of this deduction.

According to EPACE's own filled accounts both the TEEU, the AECI and the ECA draw funds from EPACE Limited for admin, secaterial, and inspection costs. See 2005 accounts below

Included in Legal and Professional fees are amounts of €13,500 charged by the T.E.E.U. €8,000 by A.E.C.I. and €4,000 by E.C.A in respect of administration and secretarial expenses.
During the year the following amounts were charged in respect of Inspection fees, €9,500 to T.E.E.U. and €2,750 to A.E.C.I.


In May 2007 EPACE Limited filed an amendment to their articles of association which gives the Company permission to give themselves gratuities, bonuses and pensions, see extract below.


(I) To grant pensions, allowances, gratuities and bonuses to officers, ex officers, employees of the Company or its predecessors in business or the dependants or connections of such persons, to establish and maintain or concur in establishing and maintaining trusts, funds or schemes (whether contributory or non- contributory) with a view to providing pensions or other benefits for any such persons
as aforasaid charitable funds or institutions, the support of which may, in the opinion of the Directors, be calculated directly or indirectly to benefit the Company or its employees, and to institute or maintain any club or other establishment or profit

Maybe after reading the above you could be forgiven for thinking this REA for the Electrical Industry is a bit more than about Electricians wages, with profits like EPACE are making who involved in that company would want to see a more transperent REA in operation???????.

Check out the CRO site for more information, makes for very interesting reading

thecribber

Thanks for the info on Epace.
Looks to me like a situation has developed where the TEEU union is controlling a Private Limited company to police employers in a Registered Employment Agreement that the employers have on input into in the first place. To make matters worse the TEEU are making money from this cosy little set up. I wonder do EPACE check the big electrical employers out (ECA members) as well as the small employers.Some how I would think the small guys are the soft targets and get policed more.
No wonder the small employers are fighting back at the moment.

Stressed14

Interesting reading on here about EPACE - I was not aware that the contribution from CWPS was not mandatory - I will be looking into this next week!!

Re the strike option by TEEU - it's a very short sighted response to a global problem.. the bones of the matter is that there is less work available and therefore in order to win the jobs and keep employees moving, contractors have to go in at very low rates, sometimes below cost simply to keep their employees busy. If they are forced into raising the rates it will simply put a lot of SME electrical contractors - and possibly some bigger ones too out of business.

The existing REA only has the support of in the region of 400 or so electrical contractors - typically the larger ones who can afford to pay the subscriptions to the likes of AECI and so on.. the rest are simply dragged along - with EPACE attempting in a very underhand way to get the smaller guys to comply.

Stradbrook

I have a theory, now its just my theory but none the less here it goes.

At the recent Labour Court Hearing into the striking down of the REA, the NECI and the Non Alligned contractors demanded to know how many of the ECA members had been inspected by EPACE Ltd.

Now you will recall that EPACE Ltd is a private limited company set up by the parties to the REA, i.e. the AECI, the ECA and the TEEU and funded by non required levies collected by CWPS (Construction Workers Pension) and passed onto EPACE.

Indeed Mr. Kevin Duffy who chaired the Labour Court hearing, had to declare albeit two weeks into the hearing, that he and the other Labour Court Judge (Union) were involved with CWPS, so it was no surprise to me when the REA was upheld, Turkeys dont vote for Xmas do they.

The AECI pulled out in Dec 07 due to the fact that all the inspectors were ex or current TEEU employees, I guess you could call it double jobbing, but thats another issue.

So after much argument in the Union Court, oh sorry I mean the Labour Court, the ECA who have 50 members, yes you read right 50 members, had 37of those NON COMPLIANT.

As for the laughable AECI after three weeks of them sitting in the court, they pitched up on the last day, and announced they were not aware that they were involved in the hearing. Lads get with the program the hearing was about a REA to which you are a signatory to. Its no wonder the AECI are hemoraeging members, they really are the Basil Fawlty of Trade Associations.

So now you have a minority employer body the ECA, sitting on the board of EPACE Ltd, recieving large funds from EPACE, dictating to the small guys how much to pay their employees, who themselves do not pay the rates.

How Irish is that!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Its akin to been pulled up by a drunk Garda and him ordering you to do a breathaliser.

Now back to my theory, the TEEU know very well that a large % of the employers they have as signatories to the outdated REA are themselves not compliant, but as they are such a small figure, and lets face it they are in business together in the form of EPACE Ltd, sitting on 800K as per their filed 2007 accounts they as proved in the Labour court are very reluctant to inspect, never the less they need their sign up to hunt down the small guy.

I call that extortion, and intimidation and with this stupid Strike Call this and much more of the madness will be exposed.

BRING IT ON I SAY:P:)

edward543350

got a letter on friday off the teeu about going on strike and what the employer wants to go back on .employer dnt want workers doing nixer and if catch you will no longer have a job theres lots of other things too

.G.

Got the letter too.The nixers thing is ridiculous.The want a 10% cut in wages while the union reckon our wage should be 11.5% higher than it is today.They want a further 5% cut in apprentice rates,which is crazy,nobody can tell me an apprentice,often doing full sparks work,is expensive to employ.We're a bloody bargain.

If they cut our wage that'll only lead to us doing more nixers.

I can live without a pay raise for a few years but no way can I accept my wages going down.Leave them as the are for a couple of years than revisit the issue.

Also the travel pay issue is a red herring as very few,if any, company's pay it anyway so getting rid of it is neither here nor there IMO.

Kippure

We,re the most highly trained tradesmen of all the trades. The amount of learning we do is unreal. Plumbers work with water, chippies work with timber and we work with electricity and we cant physically see it.

The people of ireland wouldnt be able to boil a kettle, wash themselves or see in the dark, keep themselves warm if it wasnt for us.

Big companies want us to work as slaves imo. They charge country money into the price of a tender, but give every excuse not to pay it out.

Its about time there was black outs.

Theres jobs avertised for sparks paying 25-30 thousand a year. wtf!

We have to make a stand and not let this go.

Or start up are own companies and charge the same price for everything, its called a monoploy ands there plenty of them in this country.

Stradbrook

Kippure

When you start up your company, can you employ me husband????????Please.

See we are a small contrator, by husband has over 30 years experience, and he takes home less than his 4th year apprentice who is aged 22.

If the Big Boys want to pay their electricians in gold bars, thats fine with me, but why should we who have no say in this agreement (REA) and are not part of the cozy cartel that is the set up of the TEEU, the AECI, and the ECA be subject to wage increases that they themselves dont pay.

Pot and Kettle come to mind.

I know this because my husband once worked for one of the big guys an ECA member and I found out that in the 6 years he worked for them they never paid a pension (Part of the REA) for him.

Maybe they were too busy setting up their Limited company, EPACE Ltd with their mates the TEEU and the AECI, a company that is funded by un authorised deductions from yours and the employers pension contributions.

Listen Kippure dont be fooled this strike is not about you or me a small employer, this is about keeping the cartel with the big boys and the TEEU in place. ITS ABOUT MONEY, BUT NOT FOR YOU, or me, because we are about to go out of business, and along with me (The Big Bad Employer) you will be out of work.

But the Trade Union heads in the TEEU, and their friends sitting as trustees on the CWPS pension board will not, along with your other brothers on the FAS Board who headed off to Florida compliments of yours and mine tax dollors, no they will continue to lift large amounts of money, paid for by those still lucky to have a job, and those still luckier to be in a position to employ them.

THINK ABOUT IT

.G.

Kippure wrote: »

We,re the most highly trained tradesmen of all the trades. The amount of learning we do is unreal. Plumbers work with water, chippies work with timber and we work with electricity and we cant physically see it.

The people of ireland wouldnt be able to boil a kettle, wash themselves or see in the dark, keep themselves warm if it wasnt for us.

Big companies want us to work as slaves imo. They charge country money into the price of a tender, but give every excuse not to pay it out.

Its about time there was black outs.

Theres jobs avertised for sparks paying 25-30 thousand a year. wtf!

We have to make a stand and not let this go.

Or start up are own companies and charge the same price for everything, its called a monoploy ands there plenty of them in this country.

And get paid more than us to do it.:mad:

Its ridiculous the amount of learning we do for the pay we get,plus the learning never ends.I don't hear the chippies employers or the plumbers employers saying they're staff get paid too much.If those companies can cut it in this environment why can't the electrical contractors.Too many of them thats the problem.

Loads went out on their own during the boom and now join employers groups(despite a lot being sole traders)to have a moan about our wages because theres not enough work to go around due the the amount of contractors out there.:mad:

Stradbrook

So its my husbands fault for taking a risk and going out on his own, should have known that.

Instead of employing people, and giving them a highly educated trade (your point, I believe) he should have stayed a slave to one of the big boys who didnt even fufil an agreement (No Pension Paid) that they themselves signed up for.

Thats us well and truly SCREWED!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Kippure

Stradbrook wrote: »

Kippure

When you start up your company, can you employ me husband????????Please.

See we are a small contrator, by husband has over 30 years experience, and he takes home less than his 4th year apprentice who is aged 22.

If the Big Boys want to pay their electricians in gold bars, thats fine with me, but why should we who have no say in this agreement (REA) and are not part of the cozy cartel that is the set up of the TEEU, the AECI, and the ECA be subject to wage increases that they themselves dont pay.

Pot and Kettle come to mind.

I know this because my husband once worked for one of the big guys an ECA member and I found out that in the 6 years he worked for them they never paid a pension (Part of the REA) for him.

Maybe they were too busy setting up their Limited company, EPACE Ltd with their mates the TEEU and the AECI, a company that is funded by un authorised deductions from yours and the employers pension contributions.

Listen Kippure dont be fooled this strike is not about you or me a small employer, this is about keeping the cartel with the big boys and the TEEU in place. ITS ABOUT MONEY, BUT NOT FOR YOU, or me, because we are about to go out of business, and along with me (The Big Bad Employer) you will be out of work.

But the Trade Union heads in the TEEU, and their friends sitting as trustees on the CWPS pension board will not, along with your other brothers on the FAS Board who headed off to Florida compliments of yours and mine tax dollors, no they will continue to lift large amounts of money, paid for by those still lucky to have a job, and those still luckier to be in a position to employ them.

THINK ABOUT IT

Jesus that opens my eyes, never thought of that.

.G.

Stradbrook wrote: »

So its my husbands fault for taking a risk and going out on his own, should have known that.

Instead of employing people, and giving them a highly educated trade (your point, I believe) he should have stayed a slave to one of the big boys who didnt even fufil an agreement (No Pension Paid) that they themselves signed up for.

Thats us well and truly SCREWED!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

The agreement was in place before your husband and all the others who went out on their own decided to do it.you all knew how the ground lay beforehand yet you all still went for it cos everybody was blinded by the boom thinking it'd never end.I'm an employee not a slave and I deserve every penny owed to me under the REA.I'm all in favour of updating the REA,for example I don't really care about travel pay etc,you can keep that cos I never got it anyway but just leave my wages alone.The pension as well is not up to much.Hell I don't even want a pay rise like the union is asking for,though I believe that to be a bargaining ploy.However,without a REA protecting my wage rate whats to stop your husband and others offering whatever rate they like to me and I've no choice but except it or look elsewhere?

Some have supposedly offered to take a ten percent cut but can't because of the REA.Whats to stop people forcing a twenty per cent cut,or thirty.Without legal enforcement of a wage rate,where does it end?At the bottom thats where.Your company will be profitable yet I'll be earning buttons.Sounds great.

I also ask,if the REA is so outdated/non representative like the NECI say why wasn't anybody complaining about it during the boom?Its horses for courses and you can't decide what suits you as and when the tide changes.You roll with the punches or you get out

I sympathise with you as no one should be out of work or struggling but claiming inability to pay the terms of the REA now is tough s**t as the saying goes since you knew about it before you started.The plumbing contractors don't seem to have an issue with wages in these recessionary times,prob cos theres nowhere near as many of them.Our trade is flooded with contractors so something has to give.they want it to be our wages,I say we can afford to lose a couple thousand of the 5000 odd contractors in this tiny little Island of ours.

And I signed a form authorising my payment to Epace as did alot of others in my job who were asked if they wanted to.They may not be perfect but without Epace who chases non compliance up?

PS:if your Husband is struggling why employ an apprentice?
As a sole trader the REA will not apply to him as he won't be an employer.It'd be tough on the lad but each to their own when times are hard and tough choices need making.

At the end of the day theres not much point in me arguing with you or vice versa,employers will fight for whats best for them,not their employees and we must fight for whats best for us and hope compromise can be reached.Though there is always the shadow of high level corruption lurking in Ireland,political and unionised,the union is all we have to make a stand for the average spark on the street.

2011

Regardless of how much an electrician deserves/wants to be paid there is only so much that any customer is able for work to be done.

The reality now is that there are many electricians now out of work and many of them have resorted to doing “nixers” to make ends meet (BTW I am not blaming them). Small electrical contractors are competing against this too which makes the situation even worse.

As we all know many small electrical contractors have gone bust recently and some are actually making less money than they are paying some of their employees.

On top of this there some foreign electrical contractors working in Ireland that pay their electricians at their own rates (much less than the Irish rates). Some of them have been found not abide by the same rules and regulations (ETCI ET101) that Irish electrical contractors have to. This way they can save money on materials as well as wages. This drives down prices further.

Some jobs priced for so little that it would simply be impossible to make any profit without breaking regulations. Many contractors (correctly) refuse to do this.

As well as that in recent years the price of cable has soared (supposedly due to China buying all the copper and due to the gulf war!), electricians rates have gone up and everyone is looking for a bargain due to the recession. The market dictates how much any electrical contractor can afford to pay in wages.

.G.

Foreign Contractors are bound by the REA while working in the state the same as everyone else.

Clearly its not enforced as it should be which is why I believe Epace should have its board renewed so all accusations of union control can be removed and then made a legal body with powers to enforce the rule of the land on ALL contractors,from here or elsewhere.Or we could do as the NECI say and get rid altogether,so they can pay what they like and answer to no one.I'd be surprised if most electricians didn't mind paying a couple of euro a week to fund something like that.

Like I said above there are clearly too many electrical contractors in this state.Inevitably some will go to the wall,not nice for them but it will help the situation in the long term IMO.

Nixers have always happened across all trades and always will.Nobody cared when the cash was flowing so they can't moan about it now.

The regs aren't enforced as much as they should be either.Self certification being a big reason for this IMO.I witnessed a RECI inspection with a previous employer,very active in the NECI that he is.The inspection was laughable,even more so as I knew the corners that had been cut.Shame RECI man wasn't arsed looking for them.

I agree the market has changed and there will be those that fall but as long as its not my wages I can live with it.Make changes elsewhere,including some parts of the REA,backed up by meaningful inspections both of regs and companies and then we'll see how we go.When growth begins again hopefully lessons will have been learned and we will have a more sustainable industry for the long term.

2011

Foreign Contractors are bound by the REA while working in the state the same as everyone else.

In a perfect world perhaps! In practice this is not the case.

The regs aren't enforced as much as they should be either

Sad, but true

Nixers have always happened across all trades and always will.

I know, but it hurts small contractors now more than ever before at a time when they are trying to keep afloat. No contractor paying tax and the current rates can compete against nixers. I do not blame out of work electricians trying to make some money.

Self certification being a big reason for this IMO

+ 1

meaningful inspections both of regs and companies and then we'll see how we go

Real inspections would help.

I think the only way forward is to have independent certification of all electrical work. Then all work is carried out to the correct standard and it is fair for everyone concerned.

bonzos

Edit: please keep things civil.

thank you

Nody

superg wrote: »

Foreign Contractors are bound by the REA while working in the state the same as everyone else.

I'm honestly not sure if that would hold up if challenged to European court for going against the freedom of goods in EU.

This is not a law, this is an agreement done by some parts of the market, this is why I'm saying I'd say it would get struck down (there are other cases from other countries which has been struck down on those grounds for union contracts with their counterparts requiring certain rates etc. on the country market).

*Edit* To add the details (cut down to relevant parts as I can see it).

http://www.wsws.org/articles/2006/jun2006/swed-j27.shtml wrote:

Laval’s subsidiary, L&P Baltic AB, paid its workers relatively high wages for Latvia, around €9 per hour, in addition to offering food and accommodation. But this is substantially below the rate agreed for construction workers with the main construction union in Sweden, Byggnad.

Byggnad, citing the longstanding practice in Sweden of minimum wages being set across industries through “collective agreements” with employers, unions and the state, demanded that Laval pay the Swedish rate of around €16 per hour. Collective agreements generally involve no-strike and no-lock-out deals between the unions and the employers in return for an agreed pay structure and dispute resolution procedures.

Such is the importance of the collective agreements that Sweden, a country where trade union membership stands at 80 percent of the workforce, negotiated an annexe to its EU membership application in 1994/95, which acknowledged that collective agreements should be recognised as an expression of EU law in Sweden. Denmark negotiated a similar arrangement

...

Laval initially agreed to be bound by the agreement, but then changed its mind. Anxious to exploit lower pay levels in Latvia, the company claimed it already had an agreement with the Latvian Building Workers Union. Therefore there was no need for a Swedish-style collective agreement.

...

Shortly after, the Swedish Labour Court ruled in favour of Byggnad.

...

The ECJ generally rules on matters in which collective interests of European capital come into conflict with national arrangements in any of the EU’s member countries.

...

n October 2005, the EU Commissioner in charge of the Internal Market and Services, former Irish finance minister Charlie McCreevy, stated that he considered Sweden’s attitude to the Vaxholm dispute a breach of EU rules.

...

However, when summoned to a late 2005 European Parliament hearing on the dispute to explain himself, McCreevy insisted, “Latvian trade union members are entitled to have their interests defended as much as Swedish trade union members ... the real issue to me is what do we mean by an internal market.”

.G.

2011 wrote: »

I think the only way forward is to have independent certification of all electrical work. Then all work is carried out to the correct standard and it is fair for everyone concerned.

+1

An excerpt from Voltimum where Jim Keogh of the ETCI talks about the rule changes in the latest regs:-

"Surprisingly some of the “rule changes” that are getting the most notice were originally contained in the second amendment published in September 2005 and were incorporated in the fourth edition without modification! We will discuss these in a later article.

http://www.voltimum.ie/news/8272/infopro.whatsnew.brand/ETCI-Fourth-Edition-of-the-Irish-National-Wiring-Rules-ET101---Important-Changes.html


There you go then.People are only making comment now on rule changes that happened 4 years ago as if the are only changing now.

How exactly are people allowed to self certify work when they have a patchy idea of what regs apply to it.


As for enforcing the REA on foreign contractors,we'll never know unless we try if it'll be allowed stick.
At least trying it is fairer on everyone

mac_iomhair

The guys out striking in this current climate are out of their minds. im an electrician out of work, i have to head to london next week for a contract, which i dont particularily want do but i have no choice.

so to any of them electricians not happy with their pay i say, ill take your job for you if your not happy with it. thats the fact now, there are more electricians than work out there at the minute so get on with it.

clinchy

most of the sparks on strike today have accepted the fact that the pay rise will more than likely not be given to us but why should we take a pay cut when our wages never went up to what we were promised in the first place

secman

Clinchy, Are you currently being paid REA rates? The 10% reduction is a working paper only. Have you actually suffered a 10% cut in your REA rate ? Realistically there will be a pay freeze until such times as the economic climate improves. Absolutely no need to be on strike !

Secman

jonoor

mac_iomhair wrote: »

The guys out striking in this current climate are out of their minds. im an electrician out of work, i have to head to london next week for a contract, which i dont particularily want do but i have no choice.

so to any of them electricians not happy with their pay i say, ill take your job for you if your not happy with it. thats the fact now, there are more electricians than work out there at the minute so get on with it.

I agree,Am an electrician 14 years and am on the dole since feb for the 1st time. To hear these lads asking for a pay rise is a joke,its time they got off that cloud and came down to reality. 204 euro per week or a stick in pay or a 10% cut.Its a no brainer. If you have a job,keep your head down and remember your always only 1 day from the dole queue.Dont think your invincible.

2011

Regardless of your views on the situation there is a very good and balanced post on the political forum from someone in the industry that clearly knows what is going on:


http://boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=61027147&postcount=115

curraghyid

thats about as close to reality as it gets.

The rea has desperately needed to be renegotiated for quite sometime as an electical contractor and employer the levels of charging required to cover rates of pay travel allownce and subsistence payments were excessive and that includes during the boom years,

Many of the companies i have tendered for contracts over the previous 5 years have been aghast at the costs associated with the electrical contracting industry, in comparison with the agreements in their own sector, and these are large multinationals who understand the balance of cost and output.

in the current economic climate as a sparks earning €1000 a (working)39 hour week you are not doing to bad, so come on mr devoy lets have a little bit less of the marxism about the poor downtrodden sparks being exploited by the big 6 when the cosy cartel has rode roughshot over the electrical industry for the past 18 years with its rea.