Local Election Areas

Victor

I'm kind of unimpressed with the lack of publicity this got. I had made a submission on the Dáil and European constituencies and would have liked to make one on the local ones. the majority of submissions seem to have been made either by politicians or select groups (e.g. lots of submissions from Swords) and not as many as one would expect from the general public.

http://www.electoralareacommittees.ie/

http://www.ireland.com/newspaper/breaking/2008/0617/breaking91.htm

Changes in electoral areas sought

Two independent reports into electoral boundaries for next year’s local elections have recommended a dramatic reduction in the number of three-seat wards and a reduction in the number of local electoral areas.

The recommendations would see the number of three-member electoral areas reduced from 24 to three and the overall number of local electoral areas reduced from 146 to 140.

Minister for the Environment, Heritage and Local Government John Gormley established the two boundary committees in January to review local electoral areas.

One reported on the areas of Dublin city and county and Cork, Galway, Limerick and Waterford cities. The other reported on the rest of the country. Submissions were invited from members of the public.

Mr Gormley said he would be implementing the recommendations as soon as possible.

http://www.breakingnews.ie/ireland/mhgbgbmhidsn/
http://www.rte.ie/news/2008/0617/elections.html

Victor

Greens deny cut in 3-seat electoral areas help party
http://home.eircom.net/content/irelandcom/topstories/13098247?view=Eircomnet&cat=Top Stories

DadaKopf

The new boundaries will be put to Cabinet on Friday and should be published at the end of June or beginning of July. It's mad that this Commission can just do this without massive public consultation, unlike the national electoral Boundaries Commission.

Maybe people don't care so much about it because local authorities have so little power to affect things. Why bother with something that doesn't seem to matter? Not saying it's right, just that it's the perception and the reality.

Anyway, eliminating 3-seat electoral areas mightn't be such a bad thing. The more the number of seats, the more proportional the result. Obviously the Greens would benefit from proportionality, as would Labour, FG and the PDs. Sounds to me, this criticism is code for 'Fianna Fáil would lose influence'.

Only problem, from what I can see, is that the ratio of Councillors to people would increase, building on existing problems to do with democratic distance. But if these are cowboy constituencies, let 'em hang.

Carawaystick

Have town council /udc / town commission boundaries been changed to reflect reality as part of this? or is it County/city council boundaries only?

It was badly publicised, I didn't see ads when I saw the Dáil boundary commission ads.

lostexpectation

it be useful to have list of the electoral areas with the the number of seats before and after the change listed next to each other. and the number and name of subareas

it sorta seems like this how local election process is waste of time, why is taking so long to reform.

i know gormely is trying to bring major changes but not before the next election. i guess a more varied represntation is a start...

so you have the
Local Electoral Area Boundary eg howth-malahide
where about 5 or 6 areas elected aroun 4 or 5 members each but whats the
Electoral Division Boundary for ? eg sutton.

Victor

lostexpectation wrote: »

Local Electoral Area Boundary eg howth-malahide
where about 5 or 6 areas elected aroun 4 or 5 members each but whats the
Electoral Division Boundary for ? eg sutton.

Go to this map http://www.electoralareacommittees.ie/reports/mapb.pdf
http://www.dto.ie/web2006/images/Sutton.pdf (has street names, but boundary not marked)

Anything on the map is in County Dublin, with the city shown with grey hatching. the county boundary starts at the sea, goes up Kilbarrack Road, follows the railway north and then heads west from Clongriffin, roughly along the Mayne River.

Sutton Electoral Division (ED) has its boundays as follows - from Sutton Station heading west along the railway to Howth Junction, then east along Kilbarrack Road to the sea, following the coast to the junction of Church Road and Greenfield Road and returning via Greenfield Road and Station Road to Sutton Station.

Any more questions, just give me a shout.

Carawaystick wrote: »

Have town council /udc / town commission boundaries been changed to reflect reality as part of this? or is it County/city council boundaries only?

Towns generally no. Only some boroughs and large towns were changed - Drogheda Borough, Sligo Borough, Bray Town, Dundalk Town.

Note all are now town councils - no more urban distict council or town commissioners.

It was badly publicised, I didn't see ads when I saw the Dáil boundary commission ads.

They were done separately and I don't think this one was advertised very well. Searches for things like "local boundary commission", "local government commission", "local election commission", "local constituency commission" all return irrelevant results.

Calling it "electoralareacommittees" is small Ireland gone mad with DoEHLG and councillors not realising there is a world beyond their own.

DadaKopf

It's annoying that these boundaries have been redrawn for electoral purposes and haven't been linked in with spatial and social development. One of the few successes of recent reform have been the Area Committees where people can actually get involved in the nitty-gritty of service delivery in their area, e.g. Dublin's South-East Inner City, or Clondalkin. Changing the boundaries based on population alone can undermine the integrated delivery of services and attempts at community-building that Councils should be responsible for.

All this raises an interesting issue. If electoral areas are about more than where candidates run and where people vote, then what's the most appropriate way to clean up the crazy patchwork of overlapping and repeating layers of local government. Citizens certainly have a clue how it works, or doesn't.

It makes sense to me, in a society becoming more complex and a country where people are commuting over larger geographic areas, that we do away with town councils and urban district councils altogether and let the Area Committees (or 'District Councils') do the work, answering to the County/City Council. The definitions between city, town and country are becoming blurred and, with quarrels over local government finanancing, it makes sense that towns and rural areas can benefit more by sharing their rate base and benefiting from economies of scale.

Anyway, the country's a mess, and this is yet another example of the government's lack of joined-up-thinking.

turgon

Well in fairness, having less 3-constituency areas is going to help Greens, Sinn Fein and Labour (PD's are dead wither way), as seats will be more proportionally distributed. As a fan of the Greens (though not a member) I dont mind.

But the boundaries are a mess. I know at least for national elections my town is shoved into a mostly rural constituency even though were basically attached to Cork City, and most of the residents work in the City.

DadaKopf

turgon wrote: »

Well in fairness, having less 3-constituency areas is going to help Greens, Sinn Fein and Labour (PD's are dead wither way), as seats will be more proportionally distributed. As a fan of the Greens (though not a member) I dont mind.

But the boundaries are a mess. I know at least for national elections my town is shoved into a mostly rural constituency even though were basically attached to Cork City, and most of the residents work in the City.

QED.

lostexpectation

i wasn't asking where it sutton is but what ED's are for, its has escaped my mind.


peace out to all those born on thee wrong side of the (dart) tracks

the less 3 constituency seats is great,having two virtually identical parties in supposed opposition is quite sick.

is there a list of which parties 'control' which councils, i know things at council level are very flexible, many coalitions are made and they swap mayor/chairs regularly but is that info available? im sure you could figure it out from electionsireland but to have the info all in one place again.

i always have to compare things to the england cos there so little info available.

Victor

DadaKopf wrote: »

It's annoying that these boundaries have been redrawn for electoral purposes and haven't been linked in with spatial and social development. One of the few successes of recent reform have been the Area Committees where people can actually get involved in the nitty-gritty of service delivery in their area, e.g. Dublin's South-East Inner City, or Clondalkin. Changing the boundaries based on population alone can undermine the integrated delivery of services and attempts at community-building that Councils should be responsible for.

Moving population between areas is necessary on one level. If an area doubles in population, then a new local office or a rearragement of the responsibilities of existing offices is justified. The trick is to not have the border jumping back and forth each revision in the same area.

All this raises an interesting issue. If electoral areas are about more than where candidates run and where people vote, then what's the most appropriate way to clean up the crazy patchwork of overlapping and repeating layers of local government. Citizens certainly have a clue how it works, or doesn't.

The Garda is revising the areas it uses, the health boards are gone, and we barely have local government involvement in education, so part of this isn't needed anymore.

If you compare with Northern Ireland it was readily obvious the health regions didn't match the eduction regions, didn't match the policing regions. Local government areas were so small that they were moved about wholesale. They are now standardising on I think about 6-8 matching regions.

It makes sense to me, in a society becoming more complex and a country where people are commuting over larger geographic areas, that we do away with town councils and urban district councils altogether and let the Area Committees (or 'District Councils') do the work, answering to the County/City Council. The definitions between city, town and country are becoming blurred and, with quarrels over local government finanancing, it makes sense that towns and rural areas can benefit more by sharing their rate base and benefiting from economies of scale.

I agree one could operate on a level of national - regional - local government where the regional government decides policy and local government implements it. As it stands Cork County Council almost operates as 3 autonomous councils and the boundary changes have respected those boards.

The boundaries of town councils are a little bit mad - you know the little bit of Louth south of the Boyne, well only part is if the borough. However, for voting purposes the borough includes bits of both Louth and Meath. The correct solution would be to expand the border of the borough (and Louth?) and include a green belt in the borough to stop the councils allowing development on the border. It means anyone who has the town as their town knows it.

turgon wrote: »

Well in fairness, having less 3-constituency areas is going to help Greens, Sinn Fein and Labour (PD's are dead wither way), as seats will be more proportionally distributed. As a fan of the Greens (though not a member) I dont mind.

I suspect FG will be the losers as they are often reliant on the "Anyone but FF" vote to get their last seat in any constituency, but it'll be down to the individual constituencies.

But the boundaries are a mess. I know at least for national elections my town is shoved into a mostly rural constituency even though were basically attached to Cork City, and most of the residents work in the City.

Ballincollig? Ballincollig, Togher and Douglas should never have been allowed to develop the way they did, the city boundaries should have been expanded instead of allowing the county council sap the city's core.

lostexpectation wrote: »

is there a list of which parties 'control' which councils, i know things at council level are very flexible, many coalitions are made and they swap mayor/chairs regularly but is that info available? im sure you could figure it out from electionsireland but to have the info all in one place again.

FG have majorities on Cork and Longford county councils, all the others are coalitions or grand coalitions.