Change Educational Requirements for future Enlistments?

eroo

I was thinking recently that maybe the educational requirements in the future should be changed for general enlistment?I think the Leaving Cert should be made a mandatory educational requirement for anyone applying in the future.The reason I say this is because of first hand experience of mates in school going for enlistment soon.They couldn't give a damn about the LC,with one guy taking 2 foundation level papers,and 5 pass,and he'll be lucky to pass any of them unfortunately!Their attitude is ''Ahh sure you don't need a leaving for the Army'',so they don't put any work in whatsoever!If they don't get in,they are not facing the best prospects to say the least.

With this proposed economic downturn,people need to be getting their LC imo.What happens to those who drop out after JC and don't get accepted by the Defence Forces?I believe the DF should encourage possible applicants to get the most out of school.But would it benefit the Defence Forces and would it be plausible?

ex_infantry man

eroo wrote: »

I was thinking recently that maybe the educational requirements in the future should be changed for general enlistment?I think the Leaving Cert should be made a mandatory educational requirement for anyone applying in the future.The reason I say this is because of first hand experience of mates in school going for enlistment soon.They couldn't give a damn about the LC,with one guy taking 2 foundation level papers,and 5 pass,and he'll be lucky to pass any of them unfortunately!Their attitude is ''Ahh sure you don't need a leaving for the Army'',so they don't put any work in whatsoever!If they don't get in,they are not facing the best prospects to say the least.

With this proposed economic downturn,people need to be getting their LC imo.What happens to those who drop out after JC and don't get accepted by the Defence Forces?I believe the DF should encourage possible applicants to get the most out of school.But would it benefit the Defence Forces and would it be plausible?

this thread is very descriminatory i think anyway as your literally saying an early school leaver is thick and should,nt be left in the df just because they don,t have there lc, well the df is an equal oppertunities employer and they won,t change that me thinks!!!!

melikedonunts

I dont think it would matter if they did,their is no educational requirements required as far as long as i know.if they wated the cadets thats a different story
as long as "the board are happy you meet the educational requirements"thats all that matters,i doubht that raising the standard required for enlisted personel would make a difference for these kids,

melikedonunts

as even if they did go on to complete their lc,they might end up joining anyway,i agree completeing the lc is important,but saying you shouldnt be allowed to join Df becasuee you droped out of school or failed it is unfair

eroo

I'm not saying block them from joining because they dropped out or failed,I'm saying the DF should encourage people to do the LC.OK,maybe not make the LC a mandatory requirement.If someone who neglects putting work into their final year does so just because they think they don't need a LC for their dream job,doesn't get accepted into the DF ... what do they do then?

I just think the DF should actively encourage future applicants to get the best out of school,and get their Leaving Cert.You would not believe the amount of people I know who want to join through general enlistment,who are smart people but because there are no set educational requirements,they don't give a damn about school.What happens if they fail the medical due to flat feet or bad eyesight?What next for them?

eroo

ex_infantry man wrote: »

this thread is very descriminatory i think anyway as your literally saying an early school leaver is thick and should,nt be left in the df just because they don,t have there lc, well the df is an equal oppertunities employer and they won,t change that me thinks!!!!

Please show me where I said or implied that an early school leaver is thick and shouldn't be let in to the DF because they have no Leaving Cert,and I will gladly apologise and retract that statement.

NoQuarter

well eroo im with ya,

the amount of "army mongos" i came across in my time was phenomenal and i for one would welcome some sort of aptitude test or something to weed out the people with more gob than brains because if the mongos stay in long enough they can become NCO's and then smart lads have to listen to them talk utter crap and follow their orders....bad memories.....

the GALL

The army doesn't need pte's who think, but will follow orders. Haveing a leaving cert is no guarentee of inteligence more an ability to recall facts.

eroo

the GALL wrote: »

The army doesn't need pte's who think, but will follow orders. Haveing a leaving cert is no guarentee of inteligence more an ability to recall facts.

So what happens to applicant A who left school early solely to join DF,but fails medical or security clearance?

NoQuarter

the GALL wrote: »

The army doesn't need pte's who think, but will follow orders. Haveing a leaving cert is no guarentee of inteligence more an ability to recall facts.

:rolleyes:

thank god rolleyes is back, serioulsly needed for such situations...

ex_infantry man

eroo wrote: »

So what happens to applicant A who left school early solely to join DF,but fails medical or security clearance?

the world does,nt end for this type of person i left school after jc to join the df found recruits was,nt for me at the time(the time before A7) i now work as a sales rep making loads of cash just having my jc did,nt end my career

eroo

ex_infantry man wrote: »

the world does,nt end for this type of person i left school after jc to join the df found recruits was,nt for me at the time(the time before A7) i now work as a sales rep making loads of cash just having my jc did,nt end my career

Not everyone will get the same opportunities you did.

the GALL

eroo wrote: »

So what happens to applicant A who left school early solely to join DF,but fails medical or security clearance?

Id hate to burst your bubble but the DF ain't the be all and end all of peoples lives. So he/she leaves school doesn't get into the DF they can go back to school life goes on. The DF isn't some high powered job where you putting your life on the line and taking home millions. It's a low paid job with little prospects for the future.

the GALL

king-stew wrote: »

:rolleyes:

thank god rolleyes is back, serioulsly needed for such situations...

What does that mean? A recruit with a little knowledge can be a dangerous thing.

NoQuarter

your post said nothing about recruits, that comment was on your post about pte's.

the GALL

king-stew wrote: »

your post said nothing about recruits, that comment was on your post about pte's.

sorry ill put it another way a PTE with a little knowledge can be a dangerous thing....how's that for you?

Cato

the GALL wrote: »

Id hate to burst your bubble but the DF ain't the be all and end all of peoples lives. So he/she leaves school doesn't get into the DF they can go back to school life goes on. The DF isn't some high powered job where you putting your life on the line and taking home millions. It's a low paid job with little prospects for the future.

Not everyone has the opportunity to get a 50 grand a year handy job with some construction company the money they pay in the DF's is well above decent beats any salary ive ever had...

Poccington

the GALL wrote: »

Id hate to burst your bubble but the DF ain't the be all and end all of peoples lives. So he/she leaves school doesn't get into the DF they can go back to school life goes on. The DF isn't some high powered job where you putting your life on the line and taking home millions. It's a low paid job with little prospects for the future.

I'd beg to differ.

the GALL

Cato wrote: »

Not everyone has the opportunity to get a 50 grand a year handy job with some construction company the money they pay in the DF's is well above decent beats any salary ive ever had...

Just to put you straight there's nothing handy about the construction industry
you work longer hours than soilders
it's a lot more dangerous than a job with the df
you have to stay on top of your trade

the GALL

Poccington wrote: »

I'd beg to differ.

examples... when ever your ready

Niamhd164

eroo wrote: »

I was thinking recently that maybe the educational requirements in the future should be changed for general enlistment?I think the Leaving Cert should be made a mandatory educational requirement for anyone applying in the future.The reason I say this is because of first hand experience of mates in school going for enlistment soon.They couldn't give a damn about the LC,with one guy taking 2 foundation level papers,and 5 pass,and he'll be lucky to pass any of them unfortunately!Their attitude is ''Ahh sure you don't need a leaving for the Army'',so they don't put any work in whatsoever!If they don't get in,they are not facing the best prospects to say the least.

With this proposed economic downturn,people need to be getting their LC imo.What happens to those who drop out after JC and don't get accepted by the Defence Forces?I believe the DF should encourage possible applicants to get the most out of school.But would it benefit the Defence Forces and would it be plausible?

i think this is a little unfair.. As I feel that a career in the D.F is an opportunity for both the intelligent and those who are not so gifted intellectually.. If the requirements were more l.C results based then people would lose out. And I do not feel that intelligence necessarily makes a good soldier!

eroo

Niamhd164 wrote: »

i think this is a little unfair.. As I feel that a career in the D.F is an opportunity for both the intelligent and those who are not so gifted intellectually.. If the requirements were more l.C results based then people would lose out. And I do not feel that intelligence necessarily makes a good soldier!

You serious?Maybe not academically,but if they haven't got 2 brain cells to rub together they are a liability!

Cato

the GALL wrote: »

Just to put you straight there's nothing handy about the construction industry
you work longer hours than soilders
it's a lot more dangerous than a job with the df
you have to stay on top of your trade

nice logic, care to explain? cause i must be one thick cwnt and a lieing one at that..

Poccington

the GALL wrote: »

examples... when ever your ready

It's a "low paid job" with the money to be made from duties, Portlaoise, Overseas etc. it's far from low paying. That's not even taking into account MSA or Rank.

"Little prospects for the future" again I'd severely beg to differ. There's a very high chance of promotion if you're any use, numerous courses to be done..... How does that not equate to prospects for the future?

the GALL

Cato wrote: »

nice logic, care to explain? cause i must be one thick cwnt and a lieing one at that..

what's the working day of a solider
9 to 4.30 stop at ten for tea go for dinner at 12.30 back at 2
How many PDF have died in the last ten years while in work?
how many have been sacked? not counting the drug addicts... aw gowan count them in aswell
A7 what's that? It's an defence force not a creche
and don't be putting yourself down.

the GALL

Poccington wrote: »

It's a "low paid job" with the money to be made from duties, Portlaoise, Overseas etc. it's far from low paying. That's not even taking into account MSA or Rank.

"Little prospects for the future" again I'd severely beg to differ. There's a very high chance of promotion if you're any use, numerous courses to be done..... How does that not equate to prospects for the future?

i'll give you one "if you have to do overtime your not getting paid enough"
What's the percentage of df(nco, other ranks) personal who get do "course's", can and have put them to use outside army life?
have you ever heard of the term double jobbing? and before you say it, I know, it doesn't happen.

the GALL

eroo wrote: »

You serious?Maybe not academically,but if they haven't got 2 brain cells to rub together they are a liability!

of course there serious your mistaking 'intelligence' for 'cop on'.
for example see below:

NoQuarter

the GALL wrote: »

sorry ill put it another way a PTE with a little knowledge can be a dangerous thing....how's that for you?

thats ok, i can use the rolleyes here again!

thats the worst stereotype i think ive ever heard, are you saing that as soon as the stripes are handed to you that your brain grows???

Cato

so not only do ya have to troll you have to be a condescending little sh!te as well?

the GALL

king-stew wrote: »

thats ok, i can use the rolleyes here again!

thats the worst stereotype i think ive ever heard, are you saing that as soon as the stripes are handed to you that your brain grows???

sterotype?.....what are you on about
I think your above your station and by the way your talkin youv'e visions of grandiose

NoQuarter

now im confused! i think were on different pages here!

my whole point was that i would be for some educational requirments for the DF, at least then some incredibly stupid people wouldnt end up as NCO's ordering PTE's with ten times more cop on than them around!

at least if there were some ED requirments, you would know that members have some sort of intelligence, which was a question i wondered about a few DF members before!

what were you gettin at???

the GALL

Cato wrote: »

so not only do ya have to troll you have to be a condescending little sh!te as well?

troll in what way
The op thinks to be a good solider you need the leaving cert, WTF has the leaving cert got to do with taking order's.
Does the DF not break a person down and build them up to their way of thinking? (for arguement sake as the op stated we'll leave the officers out of it). Go in to work in the morning ask around there's not many above the rank of sgt have the leaveing cert.
Little ****e.....What's thats all about, you don't know me at all to insult me, grow up.

the GALL

king stew,
I was wondering were you'd gone,
read the other post I put up for eroo
as I said before people are mistaking cop on for intelligence.
Any one can go to collage and get Dr's, phd's, Bsc etc etc but put them in a stressfull situation....well that's a differrent story altogether.

NoQuarter

the GALL wrote: »

king stew,
I was wondering were you'd gone,
read the other post I put up for eroo
as I said before people are mistaking cop on for intelligence.
Any one can go to collage and get Dr's, phd's, Bsc etc etc but put them in a stressfull situation....well that's a differrent story altogether.

That may be true but likewise on the flip side many decisions ive seen made could have used some intelligence (or cop on) and sometimes i was amazed at how badly unorganised some situations became due to lack of a bit of cop on.

i think people got caught up in eroo's mention of the leaving cert, that might not apply to a DF situation but a taylored aptitude test would go a long way i think.

the GALL

And at the end of the day the DF (army) want a blank canvas that they can paint themselves. a.holes always get promoted. Why?, cause they bend to the way it's to be done. You'll gowan and be the BSM and you can be guarenteed there be some buck(Ahem) who won't agree with every order you've given along the way.
Whats that quote "our is not to reasonn why....etc etc".

dahamster

its a moot point really as the interview panel will determine ho gets in based on the relative merits of all candidites.The majority of people in my recruit platoon in 87 had their leaving cert , one had a degree. But saying that ther wasn't much work in the country then. But the wheel is turning back that way again.

Cato

the GALL wrote: »

troll in what way

Little ****e.....What's thats all about, you don't know me at all to insult me, grow up.

ya wouldn't say that to my face ya little cwnt so don't do it over the internet, trying to act like a hard man.

Hagar

Let's stick to the topic.
Next personal insult wins a week's holiday for one in Ban City.

the GALL

Cato wrote: »

ya wouldn't say that to my face ya little cwnt so don't do it over the internet, trying to act like a hard man.

that's still nice over the internet and your still insulting people........as i've said you dont know me enough to insult me ......do you need a hand with spelling? if the DF cant help you with that the social welfare have a course on it, it's not very hard a little cop on and you'll have it no problem.
take five eroo, no one is against you your takin it personal.

eroo

the GALL wrote: »

that's still nice over the internet and your still insulting people........as i've said you dont know me enough to insult me ......do you need a hand with spelling? if the DF cant help you with that the social welfare have a course on it, it's not very hard a little cop on and you'll have it no problem.
take five eroo, no one is against you your takin it personal.

I think you should re-examine who your posts are addressed to!;)

OK,forget about the LC as a requirement,but why not have an aptitude test?Anyone can pass an interview if they prepare well enough.

Cato

the GALL wrote: »

as i've said you dont know me enough to insult me ......do you need a hand with spelling? if the DF cant help you with that the social welfare have a course on it, it's not very hard a little cop on and you'll have it no problem.
take five eroo, no one is against you your takin it personal.

i was basing it on your posts i which were derected at me, if you tell me to stop taking it personal why the sly remarks then eh?