Alcohol Bill 2008 Re: Opening Hours (merged)

patrickbrophy18

This is absolutely rediculous. Don't get me wrong. I'm all for the prevention of public order offences. However, they are going about it the wrong way. It is putting a huge strain on the nightclub business as the shorter time frame and the higher license fee eats away at a huge portion of the overall income. Some places are closing an hour earlier than they used to and on Sundays up to two hours if they could even be bothered openning for such a short period of time. Shortly after the bill was introduced, the owner of Krystle was on the radio. He predicted that his business could potentially have annual losses exceeding €1,000,000.

The bill was rushed into effect without due regard to it's consequences. Whether the government like it or not, entertainment attracts people to the country and therefore revenue. Late bars and nightclubs play a very important role in this industry as a lot of other attributes of the entertainment industry such as theme parks etc. are hugely lacking in this country. Maybe one of the reasons why people resort to binge drinking in Ireland is because there is nothing else to do.

Phier

The madness continues.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/northern_ireland/7616715.stm

Note how it's "drunk", not even "drunk and disorderly".

The sale of alcohol bill is coming up soon btw...time to act.

Bottle_of_Smoke

Phier wrote: »

The madness continues.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/northern_ireland/7616715.stm

Note how it's "drunk", not even "drunk and disorderly".

The sale of alcohol bill is coming up soon btw...time to act.

Good god, can see everyone who gets the fine having it upgraded to drunk and disorderly if they argue. Wonder will police enforce it

patrickbrophy18

I heard about this alright. There were articles in the Independent and Irish Times regarding the taxation of alcohol. According to the Vintners Federation of Ireland and the Licensed Vintners Association more than 1,500 pubs have closed since 2001. This new law will increase the rate of pub closure still further. I can understand a law against smoking in enlosed public spaces and "drunk and disorderly (not drunk on its own)".

It seems that the world is more and more becoming like that seen in the Stallone film Demolition Man. If regulations become to tight in Ireland, I might flea the country. In my opinion, these laws will make Ireland worse than the States when it come to alcohol regulations. Imposing a €100 fine on someone for being drunk in a public place? What if that person isn't causing any trouble?

Nehaxak

136 votes for 24hour opening ? wtf ? Bunch of pissheads !

patrickbrophy18

Nehaxak wrote: »

136 votes for 24hour opening ? wtf ? Bunch of pissheads !

Why do you say that? I am not an irresponsible drinker. However, I do think the regulations on this particular matter are too tight. That's all. If they don't want us binge drinking into a drunken state, then they should give us all the time in the world to finish our drinks so that it can settle. Binge drinking wouldn't be such a taboo if there weren't such tight regulations. Look at France for instance.

thefinalstage

They are losing business and yet I can't get into half of them. Over 21's my arse! My money is as good as other peoples..

rossie1977

Nehaxak wrote: »

136 votes for 24hour opening ? wtf ? Bunch of pissheads !

should be able to drink at any time you want imo, we have 24hr supermarkets, 24 gyms, 24 restaurants, why not 24hr bars?? i don't even drink that much, only every second weekend most times but closing all bars and clubs at 1am is stupid, its like teenage discos all over again, maybe our bosses from work or college lecturers can supervise us while we drink :mad:

go to las vegas and see how 24hr drinking works over there

patrickbrophy18

rossie1977 wrote: »

should be able to drink at any time you want imo, we have 24hr supermarkets, 24 gyms, 24 restaurants, why not 24hr bars?? i don't even drink that much, only every second weekend most times but closing all bars and clubs at 1am is stupid, its like teenage discos all over again, maybe our bosses from work or college lecturers can supervise us while we drink :mad:

go to las vegas and see how 24hr drinking works over there

Amen. In Santa Ponsa, I was able to drink whenever I wanted and wherever I wanted. It was great to be able to go to a bar at two o'clock in the morning and stay there until 7 o'clock. If I was leaving a club, I was allowed to finish my drink on the way home. I shouldn't have to resort to going abroad to avail of these priveleges. It's common sense. The way it's being done at the moment is exerting even more pressure on the public. As for the whole €100 fine for being drunk in a public place. What is the world (should I say this particular country) coming to? It wouldn't surprise me if 20 years down the road sees an altogether ban on drink and cigarettes. Once again, another example of a rediculous nanny state.

dsmythy

http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/ireland/2008/1006/1222959410800.html

Success on other laws brought in?

rossie1977

dsmythy wrote: »

http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/ireland/2008/1006/1222959410800.html

Success on other laws brought in?

between july and September 15th isn't really a good time to record data in this current environment. i would imagine visitors to ireland is also down oh i would say maybe 25% this year. i would like to see the number with the students back in college

Phier

...and the sun shining.

Typical short sightedness really. I've emailed asking for the report as it doesn't seem to be available.

Caliden

24 hour pubs. People will quickly get tired of drinking themselves senseless

gurramok

Regarding the 10pm closing time in the offies, responsible drinkers suffer because of it.

Last week, i went to the supermarket to get the usual grocery and alcohol shopping for a late night drink at home.
When i walked into the supermarket and noticed the off-license section cordoned off, i was p1ssed in the angry rather than drunk sense as i had forgotten the new closing times.

To get a drink, i couldn't goto pub as i was driving and had no way of getting some. Now multiply that all over with even elderly people cannot buy a late night drink for home and you understand that the good behaviour of the majority is been punished by these laws.
Now i have to remember to get shopping before 10pm and stock up in case i'm stuck for a drink at home in the future which means the law has made me a worse alcoholic as the temptation of idle cans in the fridge at home is too much to lave untouched.

Phier

The previous article is now down but is cached here:

http://216.239.59.104/search?q=cache:w4zCeAh40g0J:www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/ireland/2008/1006/1222959410800.html+25%25+drunkenness&hl=en&ct=clnk&cd=1&client=opera

If anyone wants to know why it was taken down, you know who to ask.

eirebhoy

The 12 hour license is a very good idea. At the moment we can stay in the one pub for 12 hours if we wanted anyway. Fair play to anyone that would get served in another pub/club after that 12 hour stint.

IRISH RAIL

What if you werent drinking untill the last hour?

Ace2007

Phier wrote: »

From the Clubbing forum, i thought this post deserved more eyes on it.

where is the clubbing fourm -u got a link - i can't find it

lostexpectation

and we don't know if public drunkessness might have been down if they extended the hours.

Phier

Ace2007 wrote: »

where is the clubbing fourm -u got a link - i can't find it

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/forumdisplay.php?f=824

Phier

Taken from todays Times...

Supt Joe Gannon, of Pearse Street Garda Station said:

"The difference is the streets are cleared earlier," he says. "When we had the theatre licences one lot were coming out of bars at 2.30am and another lot coming out of the late clubs at 3.30am, so there were people on the streets until about 5am.

"Now they are all coming out together at 2.30am. The fast-food places don't have the capacity for them all, so a lot head straight home.

"If it is staggered, there is less volume at once, which is easier to deal with. There is less potential for volatility on the streets."


http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/features/2008/1216/1229035762372.html

Turd Ferguson

Hello again thread o/

I havnt seen you in a few months. How have you been?

Phier

Here's a one sheeter to print out and distribute to people you think may be influential and interested in this:

http://www.giveusthenight.org/file/GUTN%20one%20sheeter.doc

Particularly people working in the industry or Gardai like Supt. Joe here has to directly deal with the kind of behaviour this Act was set up to control.

Remember, there's another final Bill - The Sale of Alcohol Bill - due for early next year, so you'll be seeing plenty more from this thread yet.

Phier

The Labour Party held a conference on this issue on Sunday.

Their motion states:

Conference notes the efforts of the legislature to reduce the abuse of alcohol by reducing access to alcohol by further limiting opening hours of pubs, night clubs and off-licenses.


Conference also notes that in today's society many people are working later hours and through out the week and weekend including Sundays.


Conference further notes that capping the opening hours of pubs, nightclubs and off-licenses is an unjustifiable and unnecessary hindrance for those working late hours any day of the week.


Conference believes that forcing these establishments to close at the same time creates an environment where the transport and food services as well as the Gardaí are stretched resulting in an increase in violence, vandalism and public order offences.


Conference believes that alcohol is to be enjoyed responsibly and that the current legislation restricts the rights of people to consume alcohol and that the current system does not help protect society from the effects of alcohol abuse.


Conference also believes that allowing pubs, clubs and nightclubs to extend their opening hours will alleviate the sudden rush created on the streets caused by the current system and will allow for those who work late or early hours on any day of the week to enjoy alcohol.


Conference calls for:
The licensing system to allow pubs, night clubs and off-licenses to extend their licenses as late or as early as the owners of the licenses like subject to the courts satisfaction with the license holders compliance and respect for other relevant laws.
Licensing laws to no longer force pubs, nightclubs and off-licenses to close earlier on weekdays or Sundays.
Alcohol regulation to switch from restricting the rights of people and businesses to the protection of people from those who are drunk and disorderedly and to increase support for those abusing alcohol.

Proposing Branch : NUI Galway/Galway West - (Galway West)

From: http://www.labour.ie/conference2009/motions/detail/1237916956118648/

Which also contains a poll on the matter.


As they're talking about something other than the recession i think now is the time to get writing again to politicians, taxi drivers, gardai, and nightclub union representatives.

Terry

Yet another reason to vote Labour at the next election.

Genghiz Cohen

Phier wrote: »

The Labour Party held a conference on this issue on Sunday.

[...]

As they're talking about something other than the recession i think now is the time to get writing again to politicians, taxi drivers, gardai, and nightclub union representatives.

Well at least they are talking about coming in-line with central Europe, finally. Austria has no closing time, go out for a drink any time, day/night.

steph1

Well I think this 10pm closing of off licences is a nuisance. A few weeks ago decided to get a takeaway and go to a friends house. Just realised it was ten minutes to 10pm and had to race to the garage for the wine. Its absolutely ridiculous. I have been abroad to other countries and drink is freely available at all hours and yet you dont see people staggering around the streets and towns like here.

One of the garages I go to opens till 12 midnight but was talking to one of the staff who said that after 10pm there is very little business and I have noticed that they have very few staff on now at night. People are down on their wages as a result of this ridiculous law. Another off licence that I know has let staff go. And there are other small shops and newsagents that are now closing earlier in the evening as very few people are around mid-week.
Government policy is ruining smaller towns and villages and disrupting social life.

This is not going to stop binge drinking. I work as a taxi driver and on a Saturday night I bring people from their houses into town. They are drinking at home before going out as they go out later. So shutting the off licences is a nuisance for the responsible drinker like myself who just fancies a bottle of wine with a chinese and is deprived of doing that. The whole thing is a farce.

Also on a Saturday night all the bars with a late licence and two discos spill out onto the streets from 2 to 3am and all are gathered at the chinese takeaways that are opened plus another fast food joint with the result that there are fights outside these places plus fights at the taxi rank. I have had to pull away from the rank on several occasions because of this.

If hours were staggered it would mean a steady flow of people going for their food, taxis etc., and would stop this build up of people in the streets for hours on end and make life easier for those of us who are driving taxis, gardai, staff in takeaways etc.

Phier

Sadly support outside of Dublin is lacking, or at least the willingness to do something about it.

The UK have different opening hour zones depending on demand.

patrickbrophy18

Employement opportunities are only being hindered by this rediculous law. Because the price of late licenses was increased three fold, the viability of nightclubs and late bars was further strained. Ideally, it shouldn't cost anything extra to keep pubs and nightclubs open passed 12:30. The only thing they should have to apply for is a liquor license. If this were the case, practically any pub in the country could stay open and hence attract visitors.

On a further note, the fact that the price of a packet of cigarettes is being increased may directly or indirectly lead to an increase in alcohol abuse. While I am aware of the ideals of completely ceasing the habit of tabaco consumption, the habit slows down the rate at which some people drink. In other words, while they are out having a cigarette, they may leave their drinks inside the pub thereby slowing their alcohol consumption down. Therefore, the rate of intoxication would have decreased. Even if it is a minor decrease, it is a decrease nevertheless. That isn't to say that I am also against the smoking ban of 5 years ago as it has my complete support.

When I was in Majorca, a pint costed me from 2 to 4 Euros while a packet of cigarettes costed me around 3 Euros (This was a 20 pack!). Also, I was allowed to finish my drink off on the way back to my apartment. When I would go outside the premises, the bouncer of the establishment would empty the remains of the alcohol into a plastic cup. On top of this, while I was in Majorca, I saw absolutely no public order offences. This is mainly because I saw almost no-one on the streets on my way home as they were all inside and because the venues where closing in a sequential manner. The resort in which I was staying, Santa Ponsa was aimed primarily at an Irish market.

patrickbrophy18

By the way, has anyone heard of when The Sale of Alcohol Bill is to be released?

The reason why I ask is because I haven't seen any sign of it in the media despite the fact that it is due to be released this year. As the year is quickly drawing to a close, I am curios about the status of this bill.