Cycling holidays

Slice

Has anyone ever done a cycling holiday and can anyone recommend a good place to do it? Or even any good websites to get me started? I'm thinking continental Europe, preferably coastal.

blorg

The Camino de Santiago is much to be recommended, ~860km from the French border to Santiago. You can fly direct to Biarritz and back from Santiago. If you want to do the coast, you can go along that route either (I have done both.) Lots of campsites on the northern coast of Spain.

Slice

Sounds great. Did you hire a bike or bring your own? 800+ km sounds like a lot. How many days did it take you to cover this distance and did you have to train for it beforehand? I would deffo be looking for something quite leisurely by comparison I think

cantalach

Slice wrote: »

Has anyone ever done a cycling holiday and can anyone recommend a good place to do it? Or even any good websites to get me started? I'm thinking continental Europe, preferably coastal.

You might need to be a bit more specific about your requirements in order to get good responses. Will the primary focus of the holiday be on the burning of the calories or on their replenishment? If the most important objective is very challenging cycling, than doing some of the great mountain passes from the Tour and Giro will probably feature highly. This will take you away from coastal locations but you will get to show everyone a photo of yourself beside the Col du Tourmalet sign.

If less demanding cycling combined with unsurpassed food and drink is what you're after, you might want to steer towards places like Tuscany or Emila-Romagna. These will still provide you with plenty of challenging, hilly terrain (much of which would be described as mountainous in Ireland) but you're not going to be crossing off any of those famous climbs on your to-do list. Provence might offer the best of both worlds actually - Mont Ventoux would be on most cyclist's to-do list.

You did say continental Europe, but if your sole objective is to train, and you're not too worried about being able to tell fisherman tales about doing the Mortirolo on a slow puncture, you might want to do what the pros do during the off season and head to Tenerife, Mallorca or Lanzarote. The first two in particular are well stocked with quality mountain passes. You can do your own thing, or choose from one of the many week-long training camps that are run in these locations. You'll find plenty of good stuff on google and youtube.

well, what I've done in the past is get the brochures from companies that run cycling holidays, eg Exodus, Explore, Irish Cycling safaries, see what appeals, then ask them for a detailed trip plan/route.
They usually have it fairly well planned in terms of distance, stops etc.

Then just plan the rest yourself, book your own flights/hotels etc and save yourself a fortune.
No need to go with an organised group.

I would recommend Vienna to Budapest as a starter trip, visit interesting places, and much of the route is on a cycling path.

cantalach

blorg wrote: »

The Camino de Santiago is much to be recommended, ~860km from the French border to Santiago. You can fly direct to Biarritz and back from Santiago. If you want to do the coast, you can go along that route either (I have done both.) Lots of campsites on the northern coast of Spain.

I had a half-baked plan to do that last month. For one reason or another it didn't work out but I did do some research. One thing that's important to point out is that for much of its very long history, the Camino has been a walking route. Opinions vary but it does seem from what I've read that cyclists are really only just tolerated - tensions have been reported in recent years. Also, it is definitely not suitable for road bikes - check out Flickr, YouTube, and numerous caminoblogs to see what I mean. Those who attempt it on a road bike end up spending a lot of time on the road (!), which deviates well away from the Camino proper over much of its distance. Another perhaps obvious thing worth pointing out is that you don't have to start in France. Lots of people start in places like Pamplona and Burgos.

Slice

That's all great advice, cheers.

Wasn't looking for anything too challenging to be honest - just a holiday on a bike as oppose to biking as a holiday.

Am veering towards Sicily, Sardinia or Corsica at the moment. North coast of Spain, south coast of France or coast of Croatia are other options. If anyone's done any of these would love to hear about it.

Lifting detailed route plans from tour operators that specialise in that sort of thing sounds like an excellent idea

blorg

As you would need to be carrying your stuff a full-on road bike wouldn't really be an option for most cycling trips, you are looking at a tourer with panniers. I did it on a sort of compromise- drop bar touring bike but with 700x35c tyres. 25% on the track, 75% on the road. Took 12 days, around 70-75km a day. This worked well for me, let the pressure down off-road and pumped back up on-road. The off-road sections are _much_ slower so that has to be borne in mind. If you wanted to do 100% off-road then a MTB would definately be advisable. When it did it across the northern coast (1999!) that was 100% on road.

Got the train from Biarritz to Saint-Jean-Pied-de-Port which is a popular start point. This was an entirely painless process, just wheeled the bikes onto the train, they are well used to it.

I wouldn't say that cyclists are just tolerated. I have heard this myself but didn't get any stick from walkers; plenty wished me a "buen camino." Obviously it helps if you are considerate and don't go bombing past them at close range, etc. Cycling is one of the "official" methods of doing it, and you get your time off purgatory at the end having cycled, just like the walkers (there is just a higher minimum distance for cyclists.)

It is a really beautiful route and great for cycling, if you think ~860km is too much as suggested you could start along the way (Biarritz is handy from Dublin though.) I cycle a lot and am pretty cycling fit but reckon most people would be able to get it done in two weeks given a bit of training beforehand. If you have the option of taking three weeks I would do that and it would be a bit leisurely.

Here's some photos, mainly of the off-road sections, to give you an idea:

blorg

Gets a lot greener once in Galicia:



And the bike I did it on:



If you have any questions about it, I'd be happy to help/advise!

cantalach

Those photos make it look absolutely amazing blorg. I'm really sorry now it didn't work out for me last month. As I've seen elsewhere though, some of the terrain looks dog rough. How often did you puncture? My plan was to do it on my hard tail mtb, though I didn't investigate whether or not it could take panniers.

blorg

It was amazing, definitely to be recommended. Only thing was the time of year- we did it end August and that was probably a little on the hot side. First week it was up in the mid-40s, we ended up setting off before dawn as it was just too hot in the middle of the day. Got a lot cooler in Galicia (by which I mean it was down to the low 30s ;-)

I only punctured once, and it wasn't on the track- was in one of the cities in a park with a bit of glass IIRC, just bad luck really. Girlfriend didn't puncture at all. We were both using Schwalbe Marathon tyres which were a great choice for the on/off-road combo.

Those photos are selected for dramatic effect and show the worst of the trail! As I say 75% of the time we were on asphalt and even some of the track in the photos above was pretty good and you could actually go along at a fair pace.

A hard tail MTB would be the perfect bike to do it on if you wanted to do it all on the track; I am considering doing it again myself that way. Almost all the other cyclists we saw were on hard tail MTBs. The drop bars were better for the road sections.

Slice

Yea, very impressive scenery. You know I haven't given much thought to the type of equipment / baggage I should bring etc or the prospect of punctures and the like. I don't have much experience but my travel companion has some experience cycling around Ireland so am counting on her!

Do people normally bring their own bikes on these trips? Does that cost much?

blorg

I brought my own bike, €22.50 over Ryanair to Biarritz and €30 return from Santiago with Aer Lingus. Depends on what you are doing (I have rented for shorter trips or just cycling about) but if you bring your own bike you know it will fit, you'll have all your stuff on it, be comfortable with it, etc.

Regarding punctures it is no different than cycling around the corner, you have to be prepared to fix them if they happen (I have tube, tyre lever, pump and puncture repair kit on my bike at all times.)

Sean02

Judging by your questain and response I think The Camino Portugues would be a perfect introduction to future biking hols. See http://www.santiago-compostela.net/portugues/index_cp_en.html for details. As other treads say try and bring your own bike preferably a road bike with panniers. apart from anything its a lot less expensive than hireing.

oobydooby

Just thought I'd add a few notes here about the Camino. I'm just back from it myself. Thanks for all the advice Blorg.

It's possible to do the entire route by road, perfectly surfaced road. We met plenty of cyclists in tandems who did this. No problems with a road bike. the scenery is still fabulous, you just miss some of the 'charm' of the off-road bits.

You would need a MTB to do the full camino, it would be pretty tough biking I reckon too. We had hybrids with Schwalbe Marathon tyres and they worked fine. Did most of it on the road and a few fun off-road sections, like in Blorg's pictures above. No punctures except some dope let all the air out of my tyres in Dublin and then wheeled the bike, breaking the valve of one tube so had to change that in Biarritz airport.

Flying with Ryanair to Biarritz was no hassle. Coming back you have to box the bike in Santiago airport. You can buy a box there for 10 euro and then it's 30 euro per bike.

It's certainly a walking route, but pilgrims also did it by horse or donkey (and still do! they complain about not getting their horses into hostels). The usual common sense applies. Generally cyclists use the road and leave pedestrians the path or at least give them a very wide berth. The last 100km or so is much busier and you get more militant walkers there and perhaps less considerate bikers but most people are sound. We only got happy waves and shouts of 'buen camino' from other cyclists and walkers. Most cars were also encouraging!

Finally the road is perfectly surfaced and a motorway runs parallel to it for most of it so the road can be completely empty. Cycling as it should be. Plenty of sports cyclists out training using the roads. Nice hills. Beautiful views. You can do it at your own pace and plenty of good food and wine and camaraderie. Plenty of history and culture too but little enough to do at night. Eat, drink your bottle of bino and hit the hay ready for more cycling. Sounds exactly what the OP was looking for. As Blorg has already offered help, I'll echo that offer. Happy holidays.

blorg

Glad you got through it without being called back home oobydooby!

cantalach

oobydooby wrote: »

No punctures except some dope let all the air out of my tyres in Dublin and then wheeled the bike, breaking the valve of one tube so had to change that in Biarritz airport.

Flying with Ryanair to Biarritz was no hassle. Coming back you have to box the bike in Santiago airport. You can buy a box there for 10 euro and then it's 30 euro per bike.

Just to zoom in on one thing you've mentioned...if I understand this correctly, you didn't have to box your bike for Ryanair at Dublin airport? And they were happy to take it pedals 'n' all? Does anyone know if it's the same story in Cork?

I'm heading to the south of France in a few weeks time and given that it's not a cycling holiday will probably just take my mountain bike. Being a lot less delicate than my road bike, I won't be as worried about it being fecked about by the baggage handlers (I did this as a summer job many years ago so I know how bikes are treated!).

Btw, thanks for all the other info on El Camino - will be very useful whenever I finally get around to going.

blorg

How they will take it generaly depends on the airport more than the airline. I flew Ryanair from Dublin and they took both bikes as is, pedals and all. Ryanair guy didn't seem overly hassled about it although there were issues about the bikes not fitting through the scanner and in the end they just gave up on that (didn't ask us to attempt removing anything.) Only time Ryanair guy was bothered about it was when the x-ray guys wanted him over to talk to him about it. A bit of handwaving sorted it.

In Santiago they were a fair bit more strict but ultimately accepted the bikes as is, without boxing. We had been worried about this and attempted pedal removal (borrowed a wrench from an anxious German in the same boat) but they wouldn't come off and they ended up taking the bikes in pretty much the same situation. They may have got stricter though! I would advise checking your pedals and re-greasing if necessary to ensure you can get them off if necessary. Ideally have them removable by a hex key.

oobydooby

cantalach wrote: »

Just to zoom in on one thing you've mentioned...if I understand this correctly, you didn't have to box your bike for Ryanair at Dublin airport? And they were happy to take it pedals 'n' all? Does anyone know if it's the same story in Cork?

Don't know about Cork but this is true for Dublin. However, there is clearly no set rule about this as we were told in the airport to remove pedals and handlebars so that the bike would fit through an X-ray machine. We did this in the airport, checked in and brought the bike to the oversized X-ray machine where we were told that the bike would not pass through and that Ryanair would carry the bike onto the plane. Eventually some employees came and wheeled or carried the bikes onto the plane, but this was now a very difficult task as the handlebars had been removed. And one of them made it even harder for himself by removing the air from my tyres (completely:mad:)

Anyway there was nothing we could do at this stage as I'd checked the tools in with the luggage. Had a multitool with Allen keys confiscated previously. Like you, I don't think I'd try this with a delicate/valuable bike.

cantalach

Thanks for that guys. It sounds like I'd better contact Ryanair at Cork Airport directly to be sure. And I'll pre-emptively loosen my pedals before leaving home just in case!

jarmstrong001

Is there a route posted anywhere on the internet for the North coastal route? This is a great description of the other route http://homepage.mac.com/verbier7/02_a_roncesvalles/index.htm.

Thanks

blorg

Some links:

Overview of route from the Spanish Tourist Agency
Lots of pictures
Confraternity of St James (UK)
Message Board

We did most of this route in reverse in 1999- it was a _lot_ quieter than the Camino Frances, far less people doing it. Did it entirely on the road, were pretty much operating on a "go where we like" basis. Lots and lots of campsites and right by the sea. Camped most of the way, we were poor then and once double rooms went above 1,500 pesetas (€9), which they did once we left Galicia, it was out with the tent ;-) Camping is great though, I'd do it for the fun even if you weren't saving any money.

Darondo

oobydooby wrote: »

Don't know about Cork but this is true for Dublin. However, there is clearly no set rule about this as we were told in the airport to remove pedals and handlebars so that the bike would fit through an X-ray machine. We did this in the airport, checked in and brought the bike to the oversized X-ray machine where we were told that the bike would not pass through and that Ryanair would carry the bike onto the plane. Eventually some employees came and wheeled or carried the bikes onto the plane, but this was now a very difficult task as the handlebars had been removed. And one of them made it even harder for himself by removing the air from my tyres (completely:mad:)

Anyway there was nothing we could do at this stage as I'd checked the tools in with the luggage. Had a multitool with Allen keys confiscated previously. Like you, I don't think I'd try this with a delicate/valuable bike.

Did you check your luggage in separately at the airport? I'm hoping to take my bike over to France with Ryanair next month, & was wondering what's the best way to book the bike online. I'll have four panniers on the bike, so can I leave them on and book the bike with panniers as one bag? Or would they expect me to take the panniers off and book them as separate bags? Been tryin to get thru to Ryanair by phone but it's proving quite difficult:(

oobydooby

Darondo wrote: »

Did you check your luggage in separately at the airport? I'm hoping to take my bike over to France with Ryanair next month, & was wondering what's the best way to book the bike online. I'll have four panniers on the bike, so can I leave them on and book the bike with panniers as one bag? Or would they expect me to take the panniers off and book them as separate bags? Been tryin to get thru to Ryanair by phone but it's proving quite difficult:(

When you book online with Ryanair you can add sports equipment. One of the options is for a bike, it's 25 euro. Thing is you must check in at least one bag too (18 euro??) We (2 of us travelled) carried one ortlieb pannier each as hand luggage and put everything else into a big bag and checked that through. Then folded up the empty big bag and zip tied it to the carrier and forgot about it until coming home when we repeated the operation. You'll have to check through all your tools, toiletries etc. anyway.

I'm almost certain they would not take the bike loaded with panniers - security risk for one, more obvious reason for two:rolleyes:

Instead of ringing Ryanair, maybe ring the airport directly - it's their rules AFAIK. Must say, the trip with Ryanair was fairly hassle-free.

Darondo

oobydooby wrote: »

When you book online with Ryanair you can add sports equipment. One of the options is for a bike, it's 25 euro. Thing is you must check in at least one bag too (18 euro??) We (2 of us travelled) carried one ortlieb pannier each as hand luggage and put everything else into a big bag and checked that through. Then folded up the empty big bag and zip tied it to the carrier and forgot about it until coming home when we repeated the operation. You'll have to check through all your tools, toiletries etc. anyway.

I'm almost certain they would not take the bike loaded with panniers - security risk for one, more obvious reason for two:rolleyes:

Instead of ringing Ryanair, maybe ring the airport directly - it's their rules AFAIK. Must say, the trip with Ryanair was fairly hassle-free.

Cheers oobydooby, I'll try ringing the airport so. That's a good idea re the bag for the rest of the luggage.

Sean02

Darondo how would you possible lift a bike with four fully loaded panniers? and can you emagine the damage if it fell. Don't waste your time and money with a phone call take the advice as gospel you have to remove panniers. You will get away with two as hand luggage particuarly if they have a tot strap. as for four you might have a problem with the weight charge. Ryan air you pay when booking. Aer Lingus pay before you go to check-in otherwise its a hassle. enjoy the trip.

jarmstrong001

Here is a partial route for the camino norte
http://www.mapmyride.com/ride/spain/oviedo/521205637
With the weather like it is in Ireland, Spain is looking more appealing (even with 5000m of ascent!)