The Law of Attraction

johnsix

How can people actually buy this bull****.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pP_PGJtXCNY
Think happy thoughts and you get riches, health and love.
Wonder why there is still starving people in the world. African kids not thinking positively enough?

alan.com

It's not bulls**t, if those starving african kids would just stop moaning and feeling miserable, and instead just put a smile on their face, a spring in their step, and just be happy, they'd probably be all fine......

karynp

alan.com wrote: »

It's not bulls**t, if those starving african kids would just stop moaning and feeling miserable, and instead just put a smile on their face, a spring in their step, and just be happy, they'd probably be all fine......

why you havent been banned for being such an arrogant git,i dont know. Im not even going to bother saying what im thinking, but lets just say what goes around comes around and if you think for one second your funny by your comments then i suggest you re think your humour. Heres hoping you dont end up in a situation like that. with a bit of luck karma will get you in your next life. shame on you.

johnsix

He probably should have used sarcasm tags.
But I'm sure if he did mean it, karma will make him a starving Africian child in his next life.

Oryx

Lets leave famine zones out of this. There has been research to show that people who think they are unlucky actually are, and people who think they are lucky lead charmed lives. This has nothing to do with karma, woo-woo, cosmic ordering or anything else. Its psychological. If you decide your fcuked, you probably will be. If you tend to think positive you will see opportunities and take chances a more pessimistic person might not.

To bring the circumstances of the poorest people among us into this is facetious.

johnsix

Oryx wrote: »

Lets leave famine zones out of this. There has been research to show that people who think they are unlucky actually are, and people who think they are lucky lead charmed lives. This has nothing to do with karma, woo-woo, cosmic ordering or anything else. Its psychological. If you decide your fcuked, you probably will be. If you tend to think positive you will see opportunities and take chances a more pessimistic person might not.

To bring the circumstances of the poorest people among us into this is facetious.

That maybe (links to this research would be nice) but these law of attraction guys are saying it is karma woo-woo and cosmic ordering.
The positive vibrations of your brain cause good things to happen to you.

Oryx

johnsix wrote: »

That maybe (links to this research would be nice) but these law of attraction guys are saying it is karma woo-woo and cosmic ordering.
The positive vibrations of your brain cause good things to happen to you.

Didint follow the link as Im close to being sacked for web browsing as it is. So it seems we actually agree on this one, but its annoying when you attempt to be disparaging using extreme and ridiculous examples.

The research I cannot link to. I read about it in a book called Quirkology, by Richard Wiseman, but I gave it away so cant check the references used.

johnsix

Actually not my arguement
from http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Secret_%282006_film%29#Spoofs_and_parodies_on_television

In the March 17, 2007 episode of Saturday Night Live, cast members spoofed "The Secret" in a sketch with Oprah Winfrey (Maya Rudolph) interviewing Rhonda Byrne (Amy Poehler).[40] Includes a scene of a man in Darfur being scolded for his lousy attitude.[41]

Its a very important question that believers should ask themselves.

Oryx

johnsix wrote: »

Actually not my arguement
from http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Secret_%282006_film%29#Spoofs_and_parodies_on_television

Its a very important question that believers should ask themselves.

Still havent seen the link. What is the question?

johnsix

In a nutshell:
The phrase Law of Attraction, although used widely by esoteric writers, does not have a consensual definition. However, the general consensus among New Thought thinkers is that the Law of Attraction takes the idea that "Like Attracts Like" and applies it to conscious desire. That is, a person's thoughts (conscious and unconscious), emotions, and beliefs cause a change in the physical world that attracts positive or negative experiences that correspond to the aforementioned thoughts, with or without the person taking action to attain such experiences. This process has been described as "harmonious vibrations of the law of attraction"[1], or "you get what you think about; your thoughts determine your experience".

The self help book and film "the Secret" uses this idea to say basically "If you wish for something hard enough, it will magically appear in your life"
The question that needs answering is "If that is true, why is there people starving in the world?"

Oryx

I firmly believe that positive thinking reaps rewards, however I dont take it so far as to believe it can cure cancer (however positivity can help in cancer survival) or end world hunger. So perhaps you need someone a bit more strident here to argue the New Age line.

???

There is a large difference between believing in being positive (which does help) and believing that if you want a pink unicorn that farts rainbows hard enough you'll get one. The book and film claim that pretty much everyone who's been successful has known 'the secret'. It poorly covers everything with the most ridiculous amount of pseudoscience, pretty obvious from the video.

It is basically a con and it sickens me when I see that the secret is one of the top 3 selling books at the moment. The main problem in it is that it if you don't get your unicorn you just didn't want it hard enough. It's your fault not the authors!

People buy it because it's an easy alternative. Why do people go to homeopaths instead of surgeons? The exact same reason. If they want to succeed in changing their life around it will take a lot of hard work and effort, this book gives them an easy way out, just as taking a sugar pill is easier than going through chemo. Put simply, cowardice and laziness sell these books.

If you want a really good look at the selfhelp movement track down Penn and Tellers: Bulls hit episode called Selfhelpless. It's excellent. It is probably on alluc.org.


Oryx, my respect for you just went way up after seeing you read Wiseman!!!!!!!!!!!

Oryx

??? wrote: »

Oryx, my respect for you just went way up after seeing you read Wiseman!!!!!!!!!!!

Well Im just tickled pink.
Its a great book, an easy read too. Im mad I gave it to someone who didnt return it.

Put simply, cowardice and laziness sell these books.

I think youre being far too harsh. Desperation and disillusionment with life, maybe. If religion, hard work, medicine and lending institutions fail, people look to other things for answers. It has always been thus, it doesnt mean laziness, but maybe lack of other options. And is it really that harmful?

alan.com

I think it's easy to understand why the book "the secret" and some teachings on "the law of attraction" attract a lot of sceptism from (I dont want to appear pompous saying narrow minded people, but I'm gonna say it anyway) narrow minded or more conventionaly spiritually inclined people (with the risk of not making any sense), because while the idea of postive thinking is to emit positive vibrations so as to in turn recieve positve vibrations from the universe, some people imagine a more material manifestation, which spawns all these silly questions about curing cancer and why people live in poverty. The idea of positive thinking is a physical meditation as opposed to some kind of super hero power to conjure up things on a whim. But I do not like the way they talk about attaining wealth and money so much in relation to positive thinking in the examples they give in "the secret", and I feel this is where the sceptics get there ideas from, sometimes the book reads like one of those get rich quick scheme books. But this is a critiscm of the way the book was put together, not at all of it's ideas, because I think whether you believe in this or not, the idea of trying to emit positive energy is a great way to live.

alan.com

Oh yeah and I WAS being sarcastic, obviously to no point....

karynp

Alan,my appologies on that one,didnt read it properly,was knackered tired.....:D

karynp

I found the secret to be quite unreal myself. I am a firm believer in positive thinking and feel it really changes your attitude when things dont go your way. Its good to be positive even when everything tumbles down around you and try to find a bigger reason for it turning out the way it did,if anything it helps keep you sain and picks you back up on your horse again.
I dont believe for one minute that you can materialise anything your heart desires,im sure all these rich folk didnt sit in there bedrooms dreaming of riches ect and crossing their fingers behind their backs, i wonder if this is how Willie Wonka got his umpa lumpas????
I know the power of positive thinking is a major drive factor in how successful you can become if you believe you can do it,but its a bit too far fetched to think it all happens just like that with no hard work, people win millions on the lotto yes,highly unlikely they sat focusing on winning it,its pure luck is it not.
The secret sold millions of books and dvds,was ranted and raved about. I wonder how many of the people who read or saw it are now rich with big houses,cars ect.
As for positivity,im all for it as its helped me cope with many a disappointment in my life and helped me accept something different to what i originally planned or hoped for.

ntlbell

they push it to far

but it's pretty simple

if you keep constantly doing positive things somethings going to come off compared to someone who doesn't

it doesn;t need a book or a load of loons talking about the forces of nature

its just common sense

johnsix

ntlbell wrote: »

they push it to far

but it's pretty simple

if you keep constantly doing positive things somethings going to come off compared to someone who doesn't

it doesn;t need a book or a load of loons talking about the forces of nature

its just common sense

That's true. But you can't really sell that can you?

ntlbell

johnsix wrote: »

That's true. But you can't really sell that can you?

sure you can

i think they call it life coaching..or some other sort of nonsense..

johnsix

ntlbell wrote: »

sure you can

i think they call it life coaching..or some other sort of nonsense..

Really? **** man I'm in the wrong business

ntlbell

johnsix wrote: »

Really? **** man I'm in the wrong business

celtic tiger is diying...you missed the boat!

you could try selling dreams in bulguaria tho?

???

It seems that the real 'secret' is to write a selfhelp book, or one condemning Dawkins. They both sell much better than other fiction.

johnsix

??? wrote: »

It seems that the real 'secret' is to write a selfhelp book, or one condemning Dawkins. They both sell much better than other fiction.

Or maybe combine them. The true path to happiness: kick Dawkins in the nuts.

kowloon

This belongs in the same file as scientology, oprah and shopping channel spirituality.

johnsix

Hey now, let's leave Oprah out of this.

Nevyn

oh right that crap to do with " TEH Skerit" and not The Kybalion.

masterwriter

karynp wrote: »

The secret sold millions of books and dvds,was ranted and raved about.

If it is able to produce material wealth why do they have to sell it. Why not give it away?

I wonder how many of the people who read or saw it are now rich with big houses,cars ect.

Not many I expect with the exception of the people who sold it. Again why do they have to sell it, if knowing it can make them rich. These types of books are a con and can cause serious unhappiness in people who have made their expectations so high their non attainment and 'ordinary' life are depressing by comparison. I have seen such folk and have never seen any of these writers offer to pay their therapy bills when they end up depressed because the books don't work and the people then blame themselves not the technique, if it could be called a technique