A quick congrats to Sinn Fein (Yes you read it right)

ShooterSF

For all the bad (legit) things said about them alot of parties could learn from the effectiveness of their ground zero work. Had a guy call to the house at 9pm to remind me to make my vote. Told him I already had, seemed like a nice enough guy and we chatted for a couple of minutes about the treaty and turnout etc. Felt like if I hadn't voted he would have give me a lift to the polling station

I know they like everyone else have an agenda, but the effect of low pressure door to door calls an not be over estimated! Credit where credit is due.

Breezer

I was saying the same thing myself earlier on. They are effective campaigners if nothing else.

sink

I bet that if a YFG campaigner came to your door with the same sort of attitude but wanting you to vote the other way. You would be coming on here raging about be bullied and coerced into voting because the politicians told you to.

PrivateEye

Here in Ballyfermot they often run buses etc. to the centre.

I'm only 18, but I can drive so with the old man in work today I spent the day driving relatives/ old people down to the centre.....they're constantly doing that..... i was the independent option today

They oviously have an agenda, I wouldn't be mad on them (Wouldn't vote them in locals/generals. I'd vote Mary Lou- shes a fantastic MEP (see Youtube) maybe second to Patricia McKenna or vice versa, but thats it...Mary Lous ex FF, and not exactly an Army Council head :rolleyes: Thats more a vote on Europe at present for me than a vote for SF.

But yeah, the Shinners can mobilise alright.
There is nobody as effective as SF on the ground.

**always remember, before giving them too much credit: they're in government in the north. and its not a workers paradise :pac:

Dirk Gently

ShooterSF wrote: »

Felt like if I hadn't voted he would have give me a lift to the polling station
.

He most likely would have. They transported all the older people around here to the polling station during the last election. It's a subtle tactic they use.

ShooterSF

sink wrote: »

I bet that if a YFG campaigner came to your door with the same sort of attitude but wanting you to vote the other way. You would be coming on here raging about be bullied and coerced into voting because the politicians told you to.

I guess, but he had an effective way around it asked did i vote? I said yes. He said good to here and asked what I thought of the treaty (sneaky way of asking how I voted ) so it was never really an issue. I'm sure he used the same tactic not to offend the yes voters

But still sink would you care to speculate if you could swap FF ability to campaign over this treaty with SF. I know which side I trusted more to get votes (even if I don't approve of the same dispicable scare tactics both sides used)

BMH

PrivateEye wrote: »

They oviously have an agenda, I wouldn't be mad on them (Wouldn't vote them in locals/generals. I'd vote Mary Lou- shes a fantastic MEP (see Youtube) maybe second to Patricia McKenna or vice versa, but thats it...Mary Lous ex FF, and not exactly an Army Council head :rolleyes: Thats more a vote on Europe at present for me than a vote for SF.

McKenna? The harpie who thinks vaccines cause autism? I don't know much about Marylou to be honest, but I wouldn't like how she twisted the commissioner issue (omitting the fact that we already signed the deal with Nice), and there's no way she honestly thinks we can negotiate a better deal.

**always remember, before giving them too much credit: they're in government in the north. and its not a workers paradise :pac:

As much as I dislike Sinn Féin, you can't blame them for this one. SDLP would have just as much trouble trying to get reforms through the DUP. It is a bit disconcerting that they seem to be more concerned about the Irish language then the Irish people at the moment though.

PrivateEye

In retrospect you may be right...
I never liked Patricia McKenna until I seen her laying into Pat Cox, who I find to be as annoying as a bad rash. Post-Lisbon (We know live in post-Lisbon referendum Ireland :cool: about time...) I may well go back to not liking her. Yeah, I will actually. All I respect about her is that she retained her politics when the Greens got into government- unlike Eamonn Ryan, who probably works weekends in the local Shell :rolleyes:

You're right but....McKenna has come out with some loopy ****e.

Mary Lou is a very good politician though. Not a fan of the shinners, but if shes the future of the party they're bound to grow in leaps and bounds. Very popular, learned her trade in FF, and it shows.

sink

ShooterSF wrote: »

But still sink would you care to speculate if you could swap FF ability to campaign over this treaty with SF. I know which side I trusted more to get votes (even if I don't approve of the same dispicable methods both sides used)

There are certain things SF did better than FF/FG/LP/GP/PD but that still doesn't take away from the facts that they lied about what is in the actual treaty. I'm not saying the others didn't speculate on the impact of the treaty with little regard for the likelihood of any of those outcomes, in order to swing votes (which I didn't agree with). But I did not see them lie about what is actually in the treaty itself. For instance I just dloaded one of SF's leaflets and it says the treaty cuts our voting strength on the council in half, which is plainly false.

turgon

clown bag wrote: »

He most likely would have. They transported all the older people around here to the polling station during the last election. It's a subtle tactic they use.

Whatever the motivation, fair play at least to them for providing a public service. I suppose it is down their alley, being lefties and all that.

Breezer

sink wrote: »

There are certain things SF did better than FF/FG/LP/GP/PD but that still doesn't take away from the facts that they lied about what is in the actual treaty.

Very true. It's their work ethic I admire, not what they were actually saying.

Badabing

I got 3 texts from Fianna Fail and a call from Brain Cowen today to remind me to vote and family and friends.

drunkmonkey

So did Sinn Fein win the Treaty?, Fair play if they did, It's nice to see the little guy win once in a while:D

+1 for the People & Sinn Fein!

Dirk Gently

PrivateEye wrote: »

In retrospect you may be right...
I never liked Patricia McKenna until I seen her laying into Pat Cox, who I find to be as annoying as a bad rash. Post-Lisbon (We know live in post-Lisbon referendum Ireland :cool: about time...) I may well go back to not liking her. Yeah, I will actually. All I respect about her is that she retained her politics when the Greens got into government- unlike Eamonn Ryan, who probably works weekends in the local Shell :rolleyes:

You're right but....McKenna has come out with some loopy ****e.

Mary Lou is a very good politician though. Not a fan of the shinners, but if shes the future of the party they're bound to grow in leaps and bounds. Very popular, learned her trade in FF, and it shows.

I think Mary lou harmed the sinners tbh. A lot of their activists were unhappy with her being parachuted in to portray a more acceptable middle class image. From their point of view I think those activists have a point. It was an image make over which I'm not sure worked for them.

Speaking of mc kenna, she was always a bit out there but like you said she's still a green in a not very recognisable green party. I also find her election posters make me curious. She has a fun quirky mischievous look about her that makes you wonder how she would preform in certain things not necessarily politically in nature. She just has that look. (maybe I should have posted this last paragraph in personal issues )

ShooterSF

sink wrote: »

There are certain things SF did better than FF/FG/LP/GP/PD but that still doesn't take away from the facts that they lied about what is in the actual treaty. I'm not saying the others didn't speculate on the impact of the treaty with little regard for the likelihood of any of those outcomes, in order to swing votes (which I didn't agree with). But I did not see them lie about what is actually in the treaty itself. For instance I just dloaded one of SF's leaflets and it says the treaty cuts our voting strength on the council in half, which is plainly false.

Ah I've been debating issues of what each parties and "independent" commissions said and I hold them all accountable of at least doing no more than, picking parts of the truth, using buzz words, a picture of themselves and how to vote with nothing else, vague statements without explanation and downright lying I'm exhausted at this point over it and I feel we're heading that way again so I'll stop now.

ShooterSF

Badabing wrote: »

I got 3 texts from Fianna Fail and a call from Brain Cowen today to remind me to vote and family and friends.

Yea damn intrusive bastards (just in case, I am only joking)

mikemac

clown bag wrote: »

I think Mary lou harmed the sinners tbh. A lot of their activists were unhappy with her being parachuted in to portray a more acceptable middle class image. From their point of view I think those activists have a point. It was an image make over which I'm not sure worked for them.

I don't like parachute candidates. She lives in Clonsilla afaik so why was she running for Dublin Central, an area she had little connection to.
It didn't work out anyway.
The top 4 candidates that I can think of all live in Dublin Central and have a track record in the area.
I realise she was an MEP so not much chance to do constituency work but she should represent her own area.

I've no time for Sinn Fein but they are incredibly well organized, no question

Breezer

Well I got a lot of stuff from Fine Gael, increasing to almost daily texts and emails over the last week or two, and an email from Labour, but I suspect that's because I'm a member of one and signed up for the other's newsletter a good while ago. I didn't have a single councillor at my door, FG, SF or otherwise, which disappointed me tbh, but SF are recognized as being very effective grassroots politicians and for that I admire them. But I would never vote for them.

Dirk Gently

micmclo wrote: »

I don't like parachute candidates. She lives in Clonsilla afaik so why was she running for Dublin Central, an area she had little connection to.

I reckon the decision to parachute her in ended up costing them a seat they probably would have otherwise won. They got a poor return nationally but had strong local activists in that area.

themont85

From following this treaty debates its become pretty clear Sinn Feins motives. They're going against the grain, being different from the status quo and hope to garner lots of publicity out of been the only side to do this. But although the No side may win I don't see SF progressing much further. Its interesting that bar 8(I think thats SFs total plus a couple of independents) want a yes. I think if it does turn out No, it will be an indicator of what SF are-a protest party. When it comes down to it most people don't vote for them in the GE despite their impressive machine. We don't trust them to run the country but will go with them on Lisbon, an indicator of perhaps of how important we view Europe and what we view of SF as.

Pride Fighter

They always have very hard working candidates and run their campaigns well on little money. Fair play to them.

leninbenjamin

i'd a Fianna Failer do the same thing here. why do Sinn Fein get special mention for this where others dont?

Dinner

leninbenjamin wrote: »

i'd a Fianna Failer do the same thing here.

Don't FF organise buses to bring people in rural areas to the polling stations. Good idea really, probably win them some more votes.

afatbollix

this would be the time to use the NO thanks button....

IRLConor

clown bag wrote: »

I think Mary lou harmed the sinners tbh. A lot of their activists were unhappy with her being parachuted in to portray a more acceptable middle class image.

Ah, in fairness you know the real problem they had with her is that she hasn't been in prison and has no facial hair, the true marks of dedicated republicans.

On topic: I do respect the work ethic of Sinn Féin, they do appear to me to try harder than many other political parties and it's only fair to praise that. That said, I'm highly unlikely to ever vote for them unless they really change quite a bit.

Rb

IRLConor wrote: »

Ah, in fairness you know the real problem they had with her is that she hasn't been in prison and has no facial hair, the true marks of dedicated republicans.

On topic: I do respect the work ethic of Sinn Féin, they do appear to me to try harder than many other political parties and it's only fair to praise that. That said, I'm highly unlikely to ever vote for them unless they really change quite a bit.

Fully agree.

nesf

I can respect Sinn Fein's work ethic and the huge level of effort they've been putting for quite a while now into building a voter base for themselves in this country. Even if you detest them, they do a very good job of getting the vote out, especially when you consider that much of their potential voters are from groups that traditionally aren't likely to vote.

Stabshauptmann

I think the no side was far better organised than the yes side and had me genuinely believing their lies and spin

gordon_gekko

clown bag wrote: »

I think Mary lou harmed the sinners tbh. A lot of their activists were unhappy with her being parachuted in to portray a more acceptable middle class image. From their point of view I think those activists have a point. It was an image make over which I'm not sure worked for them.

Speaking of mc kenna, she was always a bit out there but like you said she's still a green in a not very recognisable green party. I also find her election posters make me curious. She has a fun quirky mischievous look about her that makes you wonder how she would preform in certain things not necessarily politically in nature. She just has that look. (maybe I should have posted this last paragraph in personal issues )

she was born in the wrong decade , i could see patricia mc kenna in a hippy commune 40 yrs ago where her loony ranting would be seen as being far out ( in a good way of course ) all the while she dished out oceans of free love

VoidStarNull

BMH wrote: »

I don't know much about Marylou to be honest, but I wouldn't like how she twisted the commissioner issue (omitting the fact that we already signed the deal with Nice), and there's no way she honestly thinks we can negotiate a better deal.

I'm sure Marylou really thinks we can get a better deal. Sure, it only took them 25 years after Sunningdale to get a better deal out of the Brits.

Oh, it wasn't a better deal?

Pal

shes not great to look at in real life. not as nice as the posters.

Pal

leninbenjamin wrote: »

i'd a Fianna Failer do the same thing here. why do Sinn Fein get special mention for this where others dont?

thats the way things work on the politics board. get with the program. we all praise SF whenever we can.

In/Casino/Out

Sinn Féin set up a campaign of misinformation and often downright lies. Every poster in my area has been torn down except for the Sinn Féin ones. They deserve no more respect than the Nazi propaganda activists who despite being in the wrong worked ooooh sooooo hard.

TelePaul

I have something of an ethical quandry concerning the deliberate misinformation deployed by Sinn Féin. But I guess that's par for the course in politics.

gordon_gekko

sinn fein took the no possition for the simple reason that there the kind of party who get more traction by taking an opposing possition to the mainstream , were they to have been just another small party supporting the treaty , they would have simply faded into the backround
even by last sunday they were getting possitive results from this with there bounce in the polls , also , if the country now suffers economically , sinn fein will benefit too, durring difficult times , parties like sinn fein tend to do well, its dreadfully cynical putting your party ahead of the national interest but it has worked a treat for the shinners

IRLConor

gordon_gekko wrote: »

sinn fein took the no possition for the simple reason that there the kind of party who get more traction by taking an opposing possition to the mainstream , were they to have been just another small party supporting the treaty , they would have simply faded into the backround
even by last sunday they were getting possitive results from this with there bounce in the polls , also , if the country now suffers economically , sinn fein will benefit too, durring difficult times , parties like sinn fein tend to do well, its dreadfully cynical putting your party ahead of the national interest but it has worked a treat for the shinners

To be fair to them, they also have a ideological issue with the treaty. Their no stance isn't just posturing.

Nationalism is diametrically in opposition to further EU integration. Further EU integration threatens their raison d'être.

themont85

IRLConor wrote: »

To be fair to them, they also have a ideological issue with the treaty. Their no stance isn't just posturing.

Nationalism is diametrically in opposition to further EU integration. Further EU integration threatens their raison d'être.

They've rejected every European treaty so far on baseless arguments that proved to be untrue, ie militarism and compromise of our neutrality, how ironic. They are a party that go completely against the 'establishment', its their main selling point to their primarily working class vote.

CptSternn

At the end of the day, people put more faith in the word of Sinn Fein than they do of their own parties leaders.

johnnyq

CptSternn wrote: »

At the end of the day, people put more faith in the word of Sinn Fein than they do of their own parties leaders.

It seems that way but I would also congratulate members of the Peace and Neutrality Alliance too and other smaller charity groups like Afri that raised military concerns on the treaty.

Hitman Actual

IRLConor wrote: »

To be fair to them, they also have a ideological issue with the treaty. Their no stance isn't just posturing.

Nationalism is diametrically in opposition to further EU integration. Further EU integration threatens their raison d'être.

The thing is, though, they've been going to great lengths today to say that they are very definitely pro-EU. They continually put out conflicting messages regarding Europe.

Jimbo

It has to be said, Mary Lou McDonald did a great job in this campaign.
Keeping Gerry Adams & Co. out of the limelight was a stroke of genius on their part

guinnessdrinker

clown bag wrote: »

Speaking of mc kenna, she was always a bit out there but like you said she's still a green in a not very recognisable green party. I also find her election posters make me curious. She has a fun quirky mischievous look about her that makes you wonder how she would preform in certain things not necessarily politically in nature. She just has that look. (maybe I should have posted this last paragraph in personal issues )

I totally agree with this, I was watching her on the new today and I just thought, yes, there is something about her that I just can't put my finger on. I used to not really get her but I admire her, especially as she stood by her own principles and didn't change her mind on the EU unlike some of her party colleagues.

I think Gormley and Ryan et al. (who have been very quiet throughout the campaign imo) have lost a lot of credibility since going into government with FF.

KnifeWRENCH

Sinn Fein ran a very good campaign, I msut say I thought Mary Lou McDonald did a great job.

While I don't agree with all of Sinn Feins policies, I would not rule out voting SF in a General Election if I thought their candidate was good enough.

DublinWriter

ShooterSF wrote: »

I know they like everyone else have an agenda, but the effect of low pressure door to door calls an not be over estimated! Credit where credit is due.

I'd have to give them credit where credit is due myself; they were the only 'mainstream' party who were canvasing at the doorstep.

The biggest mistake the government did was delegating the running of the 'Yes' campaign to Michael Martin, to quote Borat, this was akin to 'letting monkey fly airplane'.

As this task didn't involve a) taxing something b) banning something c) commissioning several dozen reports by private consultancies at a cost of eleventy-hundred-million euros to the taxpayer, or d) all of the above, Martin was sure to fail given his obvious political shortcomings.

All he managed to do when he was trotted out to public debates was to appear churlish and negative in his automatic gain-saying in response to the points the SF candidate made.

nesf

DublinWriter wrote: »

I'd have to give them credit where credit is due myself; they were the only 'mainstream' party who were canvasing at the doorstep.

Nationwide yes, some of the local cumanns were active door to door but it wasn't anywhere close to as organised as it needed to be.

Oracle

I'd agree Mary Lou was great on Questions and Answers Lisbon debate.

eoin2nc

Its easier to say No to everything than have your own political policies

IRLConor

square_igloo wrote: »

While I don't agree with all of Sinn Feins policies, I would not rule out voting SF in a General Election if I thought their candidate was good enough.

I still wouldn't vote for them unless their policies and attitudes change quite radically.

Still though, fair play to them for actually making a proper effort unlike the useless shower at the centre of the yes campaign.

Ri na hEireann

Oracle wrote: »

I'd agree Mary Lou was great on Questions and Answers Lisbon debate.

Have to completely disagree....I don't think telling lies is classed as being "great" which is most certainly what she did.

I could never vote for Sinn Féin. As organised as they may be, they depend on the political mandate of people not interested in current affairs. Their policies are backward and their outlook on Europe is sickening....It's guaranteed that if Lisbon 2 ever materialises they will canvass for a NO vote regardless of what it contains. It's rather fitting that they were presented with the regurgitated "Ulster says No" from Ian Paisley in NI on every step along the road to peace and now they are fulfilling the "Ireland say No" role.

If Gordon Browne woke up in the morning and was feeling generous and decided to give the 6counties back Sinn Féin would cease to exist or in effect become a left-wing version of Libertas to be the ever-bitter thorn in the side of the EU.

irish_bob

sinn fein are no different than the likes of the bnp or ukip in the uk in that they thrive when things are toughest , it is in sinn feins interest to take an opposing view to the mainstream , gives them an edge which is appealing to the so called disadvantaged who distrust the mainstram political parties and also gives them more media exposure which is really a building block for future domestic elections which is all they really care about

it is a lie that sinn fein are pro europe, sinn fein would like to see ireland become more like cuba than denmark